Counter argument fail. Nothing in this picture implies this was an in-game screenshot. It only refers to the extra pace for data a disc can hold compared to a cartridge.
#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
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Counter argument fail. Nothing in this picture implies this was an in-game screenshot. It only refers to the extra pace for data a disc can hold compared to a cartridge.
ThatGayWolf
Member
Did you not read the rest of my post? I was saying it's not a valid argument to say that seeing a trumped up whopper and not getting it isn't the same as seeing a trumped up video game and not getting it. The whopper tastes (plays) the same whether or not it looks good. The video game does not, the lighting is integral to the taste. In this metaphor, that's akin to saying the better lit whopper tastes better. It doesn't.
You're completely missing the point about the lighting. 1. it was shown off looking that way along with the implied promise that it would be delivered that way (implied because gameplay mechanics that were promised relied on it). 2. now that the lighting that was shown off is gone, the gameplay mechanic is irrelevant. In the same metaphor, it would be like them taking the lighting off the whopper, and also taking away all the dressings and lettuce and tomatoes and then saying "what's the problem, it's still a burger."
I guess if you want it to be really accurate, it's like you ordering that whopper and your friend who came with you telling you not to take it back because they always fake the ads and who cares if they got your order wrong, suck it up and eat your burger.
DrROBschiz
Member
Even if it was playing on PS3 I doubt it was ever stated as final
In fact why hold a beta unless you planned on making changes based on feedback and performance
I am not surprised they would parade the PC version in advertising (assuming its that much better and for their sake it better be lol) since it was the lead platform and the only next gen version for now
It blows my mind that peoples expectations were so high. Did they think this was going to blow Demon Souls and Dark Souls out of the water visually with no impact?
Not on this hardware
In fact why hold a beta unless you planned on making changes based on feedback and performance
I am not surprised they would parade the PC version in advertising (assuming its that much better and for their sake it better be lol) since it was the lead platform and the only next gen version for now
It blows my mind that peoples expectations were so high. Did they think this was going to blow Demon Souls and Dark Souls out of the water visually with no impact?
Not on this hardware
There are several posts that already detail it in full, specifically Xander Cage, and if you wanted to, you could confirm with google. Or you could continue pressing f5.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
And this point I'll be happy if it looks like the TGS demo, with 1080p and 60fps will be enough for me.
Well people got to play the nice looking version at TGS and there was a video with this fidelity in January so I guess the answer is yes.
If we were talking about changes to aliasing or texture resolution or polygon count (within reason) then I'd agree with you. But these changes affect gameplay and massively change the tone of the game. And I'd argue that, at least for me, tone in Dark Souls is huge. It's one of the core elements that sets it apart from other games, and something the devs pay very close attention to.
Moral Panic
Member
DrROBschiz
Member
Not the same
The early colonial marines footage was the target for the game on every platform
They delivered on neither
If Dark Souls 2 fails to impress on its lead platform THEN you would have an apt comparison
I'm ready to pre-order on Steam and still, I kinda hope it doesn't. Only so that some of the people with the drive-by snarky posts join the ranks of the outraged as well. I can't help but think this attitude is detrimental to all gamers.
DrROBschiz
Member
Can someone Gif compare this fight with the Retail?
They changed the name of the boss and the enemy that's in front of the door. They lied to me!
DrROBschiz
Member
What attitude?
Having realistic expectations of cross platform games based on the platform they are on?
I will gladly eat crow if the PC version looks like ass
Oh right, my 'yes' was an answer to his second question, i.e. representative of the final product. I don't know the details of the Colonial Marines controversy.
AstroNut325
Member
When you get "journalists" defending the downgrade they like these two
then ofcourse most reviews/reviewers wont even mention it because they treat From and the series as sacred thing sadly instead of doing their job. and because of that gaming journalism is crap for the most part.
Stay classy Game Journalists! Thank you for reminding me why I never go to any videogame related website anymore.
You have some very selective memory then. Frame rate was even worse in the network test and it wasn't encompassing the whole game.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87660523&postcount=1954
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85861429&postcount=724
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85810741&postcount=419
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85810381&postcount=413
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=89245882&postcount=2487
And you can thank this guy
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85879939&postcount=853
I have terrible memory, I confess to that!
I've been trying to ignore DS2 for a long time since I haven't even beaten the first yet :lol
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Brad Shoemaker was also saying that a recent build they had played a few weeks prior to launch had a much worse framerate than the final version. It could've been a last minute choice to strip a lot of that stuff so that the game performed better.
Actually it's the same situation as Alien colonial Marines with same misleading and downgrade and might even be worse case of misleading because they let people play a version on PS3 (going with what Darkx10 said he have played on PS3) and told them it's gonna be like that. quality of the game itself got nothing here because it's about the deceptive and fooling people to think the game is going to be something else. so yeah it's the same thing really.
And as I mentioned previously, this kind of mindset is my biggest complaint with this campaign. Most of you don't really care about this supposed controversy, you just want the shinier game.
ThatGayWolf
Member
See: every single person stating that the reduced lighting ruins the torch mechanic. At its core this is about ruining a gameplay mechanic that was touted by the developers as a selling point.
You forgot #cognitivedissonance. "My stupid opinion can't be wrong, therefore everyone else is crazy"
I mean sure, Brad is kind of clueless about a lot of things but that tweet is downright stupid. Sorry Brad, search your feelings, you know it to be true.
DrROBschiz
Member
Colonial Marines was judged most harshly on its lead platform and supposedly superior version
Again... PC version people.
Given your suggestion I've looked through all of XANDER CAGE's posts in this thread and none of them specifically mention the source of the 'direct feed PS3' statement in relation to the GIFs shown in this thread.
Again, just trying to be diligent here. Also can't find anything on Google yet. Though I did find two videos from a french press event that show what may or may not be a pre-downgrade version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAdgI4xbU7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlTjDvRxBMA
So I assume this fight is significantly different in the console released version?
Moral Panic
Member
I think y'all need to go back and look at the original Alien:Marines downgrade video.
http://www.videogamer.com/videos/al...ll_happened_to_aliens_colonial_marines_2.html
Please watch first and then tell me how this situation is different.
http://www.videogamer.com/videos/al...ll_happened_to_aliens_colonial_marines_2.html
Please watch first and then tell me how this situation is different.
Not really. The room with the dragon skeleton and a couple of others are the most obvious downgrades.
There's no need to insult people who're feel genuinely mislead by Namco and FromSoft. This kind of language doesn't provide any type of significant discussion.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its different because the PC version isn't out yet
What if the PC version of Colonial Marines looked like the previews... was touted as the Lead Platform and marketed as the best version of the game?
At it's core, this campaign is really about a lot of things: the torch mechanic, the worse graphics, the deception (using playstation youtube channel with old footage? really?), not any one single thing.
Some people keep trying to isolate one little issue to negate the others. It's all these issues combined that pissed DS2 buyers off.
I own the game and I love it and I still strongly support this movement, because it was just not honest or transparent, and I expected more from From.
You're right, people are entitled to getting the product advertised to them when they buy it.
Lalalandia
Member
I don't think you're getting the point with the 'lead platform' comment, this isn't about this or that effect being present it's about an entire gameplay mechanic being removed. I'd be very surprised if it gets put back in for the PC version even if as we both know the PC can handle the load. Also the TGS and beta were both running on PS3 so the 'vertical slice' or what have you was being represented as the PS3 version mere weeks before launch.
Sure, but from a lot of posts it seems like most people would be happy if only their version got all those upgrades.
Moral Panic
Member
I would be happier if a version of the game got these upgrades, but we would probably be happiest if all of them got it. But clearly that didn't happen. I guess you could hope for a patch but that's not likely. We just want an official statement about this and what is going to happen to the PC version.
ThatGayWolf
Member
Yes. And fuck those people. "I got mine" never helps.
The more I watch the 60 FPS/1080p TGS trailer the more I think Bandai has just been showing off the PC version the entire time. There is also some tertiary evidence that these effects will make it into the final PC release.
I will go down picture by picture. I've downsampled the footage to 720p so the page doesn't become impossible to load.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6
I will go down picture by picture. I've downsampled the footage to 720p so the page doesn't become impossible to load.
Picture 1
- Same geometry/textures as the console release.
- Darker lighting.
- Looks like much higher-resolution textures and possibly more emphasis on the normal maps than the console version (speculative).
- Specular Highlights and Normal Maps less pronounced than the demo version, different geometry textures as well. Supports the theory that the demo build was a completely separate vertical slice from the actual game.
Picture 2
- Love the atmosphere created by the darkness and through the use of the torch.
- Same geometry/textures as the console release.
Picture 3
- This trailer really shows off the particle effects. Are they this impressive in the console version?
- Same geometry/textures as the console release.
Picture 4
- Where is the aliasing? I didn't notice any in the entire trailer.
- Specular highlights on the blade (probably in the console version as well).
- Now that is the level of detail in Dark Souls that I have come to expect.
Picture 5
- Gorgeous.
- In the console release, the lighting in this area is more toned down and almost has a green hue.
- Same geometry/textures as the console release.
Picture 6
- Two pictures here.
- More particle effects.
- Fog effect is completely different from the console version.
It's odd, even the life bar looks washed out in comparison. Anyone have video of the Mirror Knight fight?
DrROBschiz
Member
Mountains better at the reveal
I will say one thing
If this is the difference between the PC and Console versions... then it would have been great of From to communicate the gap better.
That said.. that is a pretty rough capture there. Looks much better than that on my PS3/TV though I am guessing the lighting and green tone are the same
Looks like a completely different game than im playing on console.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
He got realocated as a boss in another area of the game.
CuckFupertino
Banned
Give me a break. In what world do you guys live in where you thought there weren't going to be sacrifices made leading up to launch? These are 8 year old consoles they're developing for. Clearly, someone made the right call to value frame rate over graphics, and I'm happy they did. Frame rate on DS1 (consoles) was a disaster, and honestly made playing the game a slog.
I'm all for more transparency from publishers and developers, but can you imagine Namco/From making it a point to tell the media they had to cut back on some of the graphical features? No publisher anywhere is going to do that, ever.
Stop trying to turn this into some kind of crusade. Everyone on GAF, were they in the shoes of whichever person decided to show the buffed up PC footage, would have made the exact same decision.
I'm all for more transparency from publishers and developers, but can you imagine Namco/From making it a point to tell the media they had to cut back on some of the graphical features? No publisher anywhere is going to do that, ever.
Stop trying to turn this into some kind of crusade. Everyone on GAF, were they in the shoes of whichever person decided to show the buffed up PC footage, would have made the exact same decision.
I haven't bought DS2 yet, and I'm positive I will at some point. I would love to buy the version with the torch mechanic and tone intact. If thar's only the PC version, then it's better than nothing. My hope is gone for the consoles.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That's the TGS demo, which already have downgraded textures and assets compared to the reveal.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah I think its starting to become clear that the PC version was what we were seeing
Though it would be nice to get some more direct comparisons between the Beta and release since people are still claiming the difference there was huge as well..
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Since Uncharted 3 gameplay among many other current gen games looked the same or better than old demos...
Isn't there still boss fog there though? Is it that pronounced?
Speaking completely off-topicly from the current discussion, but as someone who was interested in Dark Souls II before hand, I'm very glad they removed the torch mechanics as described in this thread. Would have made it even more of a nightmare to play than Dark Souls I was.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Nvm, i thought you were talking about the enemy protecting the fog gate. But yes, the fog gate is still there.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Boss fog is downgraded in the retail version. Funny thing, it was like that in the PS3 beta.