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[SlasherJPC]

I love Dark Souls 2 but I'm so glad that we pushed this issue enough to get some higher up folks to notice. I mean... it's just soooo sooooo different from the earlier footage and some shown even not long ago. Just want an answer at the least.

 

[SonyToo!™]

If you ask me, this is what's going to happen next:

1. Namco issues bullshit statement about downgrade (statement should happen next week).

2. PC version looks very similar to PS3/X360 versions overall. Differences are higher framerate, ability to choose resolution and perhaps a bit nicer textures, but there is no trace of pretty lighting.

3. Few months down the line, Namco releases Dark Souls 2 - Ultimate/Definitive/Whatever Edition for PS4 and XO which features, lo and behold, old lighting system.

4. Fans double dip.

5. Namco CEO smiles while he counts money.

As much as I'm disappointed with FROM / Bamco I still want a definitive version even if the upcoming PC port is just like the PS360 one.

However they had better put in some (VERY) good incentives like they did with DS Prepare to Die Edition, rather than just the features we were led to believe were in DS2 PS360. And also do a PC port as well Ideally with a discount for those who already own the Steam / PC version.

If Bamco really wanted to get back into my good books they'd (if possible) do some sort of discount upgrade like COD and other next gen launch titles did, Meaningless for me since I'll be jumping from 360 to PS4.

My biggest fear out of all of this is that 5 different versions (possibly 6 if PC has 2 versions) is too much for the online playerbase and we get gamers abandoning some versions to group together on others, meaning even more copies bought by each gamer. Gamers jumping from 360 to PS3 happened all the time last gen it was quite annoying.

So If a Definitive next gen DS2 did release, I'd hope Bamco would atleast wait a year and let us enjoy the versions we already have. Having it release in a couple of months leaving me with an empty 360 version, no next gen console and a PC with a dead GFX card rather pissed off.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Even the Durante-quality AO implementation?



Isn't the publisher the one who promotes the game though?

Everything in the TGS build yes. at 720p 30fps.

 

[Moon_frogger]

So is it different from that free beta they had too? Im still having trouble understanding the outrage here. I'm still looking forward to the game quite a bit, and nothing so far in this thread has diminished my enthusiasm. If the game was terrible or even worse than dark souls 1 I might be wary...how's the framerate?

 

[Hypron]

So is it different from that free beta they had too? Im still having trouble understanding the outrage here. I'm still looking forward to the game quite a bit, and nothing so far in this thread has diminished my enthusiasm. If the game was terrible or even worse than dark souls 1 I might be wary...how's the framerate?

The framerate is better than DS1's but it's still not perfect. It drops quite a bit when you use a torch (thankfully I've only come across 1 area in ~28 hours of gameplay where using a torch is required), but it doesn't anywhere near as much as Dark Souls does in Blighttown or New Londo Ruins.

 

[Gbraga]

Yeah I'm sure it was Namco who went into the development studios and told them to downgrade the game.

Definitely not, but the downgrade itself wouldn't be a problem if they didn't keep showing stuff that wasn't in the game up until a month ago.

They said "that is running on PC" in the reveal IGN thing, so no one would be too mad as long as the final PC version at least had the same effects shown there, same lighting, same AO and that stuff. No one would expect the PS3 version to look like the PC version if they didn't show a PS3 version (I don't think it really was but that's not the point) that did look that good.

If the possibility that Namco didn't even know about the downgrade confirms itself, then yeah, all the blame goes to From.

 

[vpance]

Even Naughty Dog struggled with framerate in The Last of Us.

Which makes it even less likely, despite apparent evidence to the contrary.

The initial lighting looked super good, with AO, self shadows and all. Its very hard to believe From could turn it all around since DS1 and achieve those results on PS3.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Definitely not, but the downgrade itself wouldn't be a problem if they didn't keep showing stuff that wasn't in the game up until a month ago.

They said "that is running on PC" in the reveal IGN thing, so no one would be too mad as long as the final PC version at least had the same effects shown there, same lighting, same AO and that stuff. No one would expect the PS3 version to look like the PC version if they didn't show a PS3 version (I don't think it really was but that's not the point) that did look that good.

If the possibility that Namco didn't even knew about the downgrade confirms itself, then yeah, all the blame goes to From.

Is very hard to believe that not a single Namco producer/QA knew about the downgrade. I don't think a publisher wouldn't check the work of their developers and only would find about the state of the final version after printing the disc. They knew and it was definetly their decision to keep demoing the TGS demo.

 

[Branduil]

As much as I'm disappointed with FROM / Bamco I still want a definitive version even if the upcoming PC port is just like the PS360 one.

However they had better put in some (VERY) good incentives like they did with DS Prepare to Die Edition, rather than just the features we were led to believe were in DS2 PS360. And also do a PC port as well Ideally with a discount for those who already own the Steam / PC version.

If by discount you mean "free patch."

 

[Chuck Norris]

Definitely not, but the downgrade itself wouldn't be a problem if they didn't keep showing stuff that wasn't in the game up until a month ago.

They said "that is running on PC" in the reveal IGN thing, so no one would be too mad as long as the final PC version at least had the same effects shown there, same lighting, same AO and that stuff. No one would expect the PS3 version to look like the PC version if they didn't show a PS3 version (I don't think it really was but that's not the point) that did look that good.

If the possibility that Namco didn't even know about the downgrade confirms itself, then yeah, all the blame goes to From.

Generally a publisher just shows the latest build the developer has given them. Even still I looked through this thread and I could barely find a post that mentioned From Software, and when it does mention them it's Namco/FromSoftware. Yet you go to a thread praising a Souls game I doubt you'd ever see Namco mentioned

It looks like From Software couldn't deliver on what they were aiming for, they were the only ones in control of the development of this game. The blame is squarely on them

 

[Gbraga]

Is very hard to believe that not a single Namco producer/QA knew about the downgrade. I don't think a publisher wouldn't check to wrok of their developers and only would find about the state of the final version after printing the disc. They knew and it was definetly their decision to keep demoing the TGS demo.

I think it's very unlikely too, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. That would probably make them look really stupid, but better stupid than dishonest, I guess.

 

[Mondy]

If you had told me that Dark Souls 2 probably wouldn't be in serious contention for GOTY 2 weeks ago, I would've called you a psychopath.

 

[soontroll]

The environment is small
There are very few characters on the screen
The HUD is very simple
There are no real complex shaders (like tesselation or displacement)
The particle effects are well done but nothing especially complex
There aren't any complex physics
The video is so low quality that it is hard to tell if the textures are high res or not. Could be quite low res overall.

The only thing demanding is the lighting, and even there there's no GI going on or anything, and there are very few dynamic light sources at one time.

If Last of Us can run on PS3, this most definitely can.

I was basing my comment on the horrible performance on PS3 and 360 even with the severe downgrades. The framerate in the PS access build is pretty much flawless in comparison. That, coupled with the much better lighting system and better reflections on armour and weapons makes me incredibly doubtful.

 

[SonyToo!™]

If by discount you mean "free patch."

If it was just better textures and effects in the "Definitive Version" sure but if it included more content like the Prepare to Die Ed did then I wouldn't feel ripped off if I had to pay upto £20 to upgrade

 

[Gbraga]

If you had told me that Dark Souls 2 probably wouldn't be in serious contention for GOTY 2 weeks ago, I would've called you a psychopath.

Funny thing is, when I believed the game would look that great, warping (among other things) made me not too fond of this game, I was prepared for the worse. But from what I've seen, the ugly version convinced me that it is in fact a contender for GOTY (I still don't think it'll be as good as the first game, though).

 

[epmode]

If you ask me, this is what's going to happen next:

1. Namco issues bullshit statement about downgrade (statement should happen next week).

2. PC version looks very similar to PS3/X360 versions overall. Differences are higher framerate, ability to choose resolution and perhaps a bit nicer textures, but there is no trace of pretty lighting.

3. Few months down the line, Namco releases Dark Souls 2 - Ultimate/Definitive/Whatever Edition for PS4 and XO which features, lo and behold, old lighting system.

4. Fans double dip.

5. Namco CEO smiles while he counts money.

This has been quoted to hell and back but this is what I was worried about from the beginning. It would be especially awful for the PC version to be stuck with the downgrade considering that decent gaming PCs can easily handle what was in the reveal.

They'll pull a Tomb Raider style DEFINITIVE EDITION that somehow never makes it to PC because it's just not next gen enough.

 

[Hypron]

If you had told me that Dark Souls 2 probably wouldn't be in serious contention for GOTY 2 weeks ago, I would've called you a psychopath.

So a graphics downgrade prevents a game from being a goty contender? It's still an incredible game.

 

[pixlexic]

i would buy it again for next consoles if i can transfer for ps3 save data. I wouldnt even need a graphical upgrade

 

[Robot Pants]

This game still looks really good compared to the first.
I was extremely worried after the network test, but I was way wrong and I'll totally admit that.

However, from the trailers to the promo vids, we got a way inferior version.
I hope this comes to PS4/XB1 also.

 

[soontroll]

Was the demo on the PC version or the 360? The buttons are confusing me.

 

[CountAntonius]

This has been quoted to hell and back but this is what I was worried about from the beginning. It would be especially awful for the PC version to be stuck with the downgrade considering that decent gaming PCs can easily handle what was in the reveal.

They'll pull a Tomb Raider style DEFINITIVE EDITION that somehow never makes it to PC because it's just not next gen enough.

I think it's paranoia more than anything. I really doubt they held anything back from the console versions so they can milk anyone next gen. They don't have to. A next gen game would already look and run better given that it is next gen. As long as that next gen version is on par with the PC version or the PC version gets a free graphical upgrade to match it I don't have any issues with that. Also any next gen version will be a port of the PC version which was lead platform. You think From Software who ported an Xbox game directly to PC resolution intact is gonna make a new version when the PC version already exists? lol no.

 

[zephervack]

Was the demo on the PC version or the 360? The buttons are confusing me.

They said PC to IGN.

 

[soontroll]

They said PC to IGN.

If so, isn't that comparison slightly unfair?

 

[zephervack]

If so, isn't that comparison slightly unfair?

I guess, we never saw the dragon mansion in the TGS demo.

In my opinion it's not unfair, while you can't expect the fidelity of the PC, you could at least expect some of the lightning to remain intact.

I can't think of another multi platform game that got this gutted from the PC version, see Crysis 2, Metro 2033, Witcher 2 etc,they dont have the same fidelity as the PC versions, but they look very similar in lightning and texturing.

This was plain false advertising in my opinion.

 

[pa22word]

Fucking yeah I know, it's why I'm furious. I actually took to twitter now, as feeble as that is, to take swings at anyone I can over this. This fucking shit is bonkers. I cannot believe how deceptive they were in marketing this game.

I figured you might, but I keep saying it every chance I get on the off chance one of the people like Patrick Klepek who think this was something they steadily did over a year's time or something might see the information and pull their heads out of their asses.

And fyi I was on the twitter war path a few days ago. No one really cares, sadly. Your best bet is to bomb Namco or try Sterling.

 

[soontroll]

I figured you might, but I keep saying it every chance I get on the off chance one of the people like Patrick Klepek who think this was something they steadily did over a year's time or something might see the information and pull their heads out of their asses.

And fyi I was on the twitter war path a few days ago. No one really cares, sadly. Your best bet is to bomb Namco or try Sterling.

Jim Sterling? He already knows about it. He discussed it in the latest retsutalk podcast.

 

[Funchameleon]

That video needs to be debunked. It never dips below 60 FPS. That's a fucking PC

Weird that you can tell this from a 30fps video

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Wasn't the TGS gameplay trailer 1080p/60fps though?

I understand the confusion now. The 1080p 60fps TGS trailer is from the PC version. The demo that ran on PS3s looked pretty much the same but ran at 720p 30fps.

If so, isn't that comparison slightly unfair?

There's the E3 trailer, which looks the same as the TGS build (the exaggerated rim lighting for the characters wasn't present in the original PC reveal footage):

@00:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM4KsodndV4&t=26s

Here's the difference in character lighting between the PC reveal and subsequent demos:

PC reveal:

E3/TGS demo:

 

[Kingduqc]

On gametraillers there was a feature where two guys talked about Dark souls 2, one on ps3 and one on PC and they talked about the differences. for the love of me I can't find it, there was some precious info there.

 

[Fahrenheit]

They got me for a double dip anyways for the PS3 version and the PC version anyways. I do think the PC version is gonna look like a cleaner, smoother version of the current console version.


No way that reveal footage could run on PS3/306 with an acceptable frame rate. Hell it doesn't run in it's current state at an acceptable frame rate.


Still a great game and with Whitcher 3 pushed back it probably end up being my GOTY

 

[K.Jack]

More than anything focus on this video which clearly shows a different version but goes on and on about it being played on PS3.

5 Things We learned

This just CAN'T be PS3. Not because it just looks amazing, but look at the damn framerate. Completely smooth with not a drop in sight.

There is some bullshit going on, 100%. The Mirror Knight fight, jesus.

 

[solarus]

Fucking yeah I know, it's why I'm furious. I actually took to twitter now, as feeble as that is, to take swings at anyone I can over this. This fucking shit is bonkers. I cannot believe how deceptive they were in marketing this game.

.
And I can't believe fans and fucking journalists are defending this. Klepeck with the whole vertical slice bullshit as well as everyone else, not realising that these visuals weren't just confined to the reveal but they kept showing them all the way until just over a month before launch. That is fucking deception.

 

[Kingduqc]

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/mq345t/demon-talk-episode-2--wrath-of-the-mirror-knight

Found it, at 15:20.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/mq345t/demon-talk-episode-2--wrath-of-the-mirror-knight

Found it, at 15:20.

Hope regained.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Hope regained.

Oh shit :O

 

[Gbraga]

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/mq345t/demon-talk-episode-2--wrath-of-the-mirror-knight

Found it, at 15:20.

Be wary of hope!!

 

[Thursday War]

#LIARLIARSOULSONFIRE

 

[Y2Kev]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

 

[bootski]

another reason to not buy games at launch if you're concerned about quality. developers will cry and moan about lost sales from used games and then turn around and do shit like this to their customers with no qualms at all.

as far as those gifs in the OP go, even going from PC to PS3 that'd be a pretty serious downgrade. warrants at least some explanation i'd think. wouldn't expect one though, they're probably too busy counting your $$

 

[Gbraga]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

lmao what an amazing tag

 

[Phatosaurus]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

I was watching AGermanSpy's walkthrough on YT earlier and he was talking about the performance through the different builds of the game he has played

Spoiler

(he worked on the walkthrough and played per-release builds btw).

He was talking about how awful it was in the earlier builds and how he mentioned to Future Press/Bamco guys that they need to tell FROM to sort the frame rate out.
Then went on to say how great the frame rate is in the retail release. Even calling it a "silky smooth 30FPS". No really.

I like AGS, his videos are great, but I just #DROPPED his opinion on that.

 

[SargerusBR]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

Let me guess, disc version?

 

[Toxi]

I was watching AGermanSpy's walkthrough on YT earlier and he was talking about the performance through the different builds of the game he has played

Spoiler

(he worked on the walkthrough and played per-release builds btw).

He was talking about how awful it was in the earlier builds and how he mentioned to Future Press/Bamco guys that they need to tell FROM to sort the frame rate out.
Then went on to say how great the frame rate is in the retail release. Even calling it a "silky smooth 30FPS". No really.

I like AGS, his videos are great, but I just #DROPPED his opinion on that.

It seems to be really inconsistent; I've been playing PS3 and the framerate's shat itself a few times, but I find it better than Dark Souls PS3; definitely way better than Demon Ruins or New Londo Ruins, and there's no comparison to Blighttown so far.

On the other hand, it's also nowhere near consistent 30.

 

[CountAntonius]

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/mq345t/demon-talk-episode-2--wrath-of-the-mirror-knight

Found it, at 15:20.

There was a theory that the reason there was a delay and no PC footage is because console players would be angry at the difference in quality between the two if they both released at the same time. From did say the games were developed simultaneously but separately on each platform. So the PC version could be a bigger jump then we expect and retain a lot of what was lost.

 

[rybrad]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

This has been my biggest issue with the game. Going back to Mujala to level up and waiting 5 seconds for the menu to come up after talking really grates on me. I haven't had to many fatal issues with the input lag but it is damn annoying the times it does happen.

 

[Fahrenheit]

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/mq345t/demon-talk-episode-2--wrath-of-the-mirror-knight

Found it, at 15:20.

Watch add
Skip to 15:20
Add plays again
Add 1 of 4 playing


Yeah no GT, now I remember why I don't go to GT.com anymore.

 

[SargerusBR]

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/mq345t/demon-talk-episode-2--wrath-of-the-mirror-knight

Found it, at 15:20.

GT player is horrible, what does it say?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'm going to say this now, I hope Durante doesn't fix anything technical within his grasp and I certainly won't be looking to give these guys a sale if the PC version is like this. I can't stomach another botch job.

 

[KarmaCow]

GT player is horrible, what does it say?

This is from E3, almost a year ago at this point. So this is probably the second time the game has been seen since the initial hands off reveal and we don't know how exactly they saw the game.

They mention that the game looks amazing on PC (specifically say they saw a version running on PC) and they understand why Edge said it looked next gen. They also say they don't know how it could possibly match up on consoles.

 

[v4skunk84]

Hi all, new comer here! Been hovering around this forum for years.

As a owner of a gaming pc and a PS3, it was very clear to me the early footage was always running on a pc.

Fromsoft should have made it clear from the start that early footage was running on pc hardware, as most console players do not under stand what a pc is capable of compared to a console.