Support NeoGAF

[Saintguine]

It is remarkable how well publishers, developers and console manufacturers have whipped some gamers into line, so much so that they run defense on the indefensible. I just can't even relate to the psychology of this.

I mean, let's just take a minute to awe at just what this statement of your says. It suggests that we all should have just expected that a game which had been advertised a certain way right up until the eve of its launch would be downgraded, and that it's ridiculous to get angry over it. Again, let's pause to highlight the absurdity. You expected gamers to predict that the game would be downgraded, despite all the media suggesting it was an entirely different way, because... why? We all should have expectations for what these systems can produce? On systems where games like Uncharted 2 and God of War 3 exist? Where titles like Alan Wake and Halo 4 are a thing?

Let's even assume for a moment you actually believe this nonsense. You're actually willing to put the onus for this 'problem' on the gamers who are surprised by it, rather than the company who willfully deceived potential customers up until the eve of its release?

I mean, christ, you're so far off point it's like a comic tragedy. Nobody is expecting a 'photo realistic' game, they are expecting what has been advertised for ages now as a product containing these features. What was advertised before was never photorealistic or close. It was a game with an impressive lighting engine, one that apparently was going to tie directly into the gameplay. Now, no matter how they got around it, the point is it's not the same experience. It simply is not. And to try to ask your fellow gamers to put down the pitchforks because we all should have been psychics not only pushes responsibility away from who deserves it, but it's self-defeatist tripe.

I'm a massive Dark Souls fan, but I'm sorry, this shit is unacceptable. I don't care if it may still be a decent product, it doesn't matter. If I am going to buy a product, I expect to be informed as to what it is all about well before its release. I don't expect to be told I am getting a certain type of product only to be completely surprised when it is an entirely different sort of thing. Dark Souls II was one of my most anticipated games of all time, but see I don't play companies or walk any lines. They fucked up, and now they need to make it right. And yes, a press release would be a nice start.

Summed it up beautifully.

When you hype up lighting as a massive mechanic and how it plays with torches in the initial release footage and then gut it so the lighting looks flat and not even up to par with other games like say Skyrim. It really is poor form.

Personally? Release a PC version that has graphical fidelity that is the same as the reveal. Nothing more, nothing less and for me all will be forgiven. As for bug testing the new level design etc., from experience From Software hasn't been that keen on ironing out bugs pre-release with shit like the Bottomless Box glitch and Dragon Head glitch not to mention that it's still possible to not

Spoiler

get the key from Ingward's by killing him

.

 

[Orthogonal]

Damn this thread really put a dampen on my intention of purchasing this on PS3... planning to make this my first serious entry to Souls game (only played Demon's and Dark Souls for like, 10 minute each) and this game seems... or I guess seemed... cool, but...

Damn. Really mood-dampening stuff in here.

It's still a good game for what it is, so don't let it dampen things too much. For me, I think I still got $120 worth of value from the CE I bought and don't regret a thing. However, it's ok to express disappointment on what could have been.

 

[DragonNC]

The image is from this video I made. You can compare for yourself in motion. I honestly think the game looks really disappointing. Just overall, the game was trying to look more realistic, and it didn't pull it off, so it comes off as more unattractive than the other titles in the series. I think DeS and DaS are pretty good looking games too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykbT03r_9Zo

GTFO dude....don't compare N64 game with this generation remake.........XD

 

[tehPete]

This was depressing when I came across it - instantly made me regret re-instating my console pre-order. Does anyone else see the texture on the bridge itself there as a wall texture? At least on the PC there's always modding to fill in the gaps.

The texture work in the game so far has left a lot to be desired; you'd think they'd have it down for the starting area at least but there's repeating textures everywhere you look and it really breaks the immersion. It feels like the game was started by one team, then finished by another, less experienced one. Between that and being killed by invisible enemies in doorways thanks to some awful draw clipping (oh this enemy's in the next room? Don't need to render him, even though there's clear line of sight and he's actively attacking you), I'm disappointed so far. Only 4 hours in though, so there's plenty of time yet.

 

[Persona7]

This was depressing when I came across it - instantly made me regret re-instating my console pre-order. Does anyone else see the texture on the bridge itself there as a wall texture? At least on the PC there's always modding to fill in the gaps.

The texture work in the game so far has left a lot to be desired; you'd think they'd have it down for the starting area at least but there's repeating textures everywhere you look and it really breaks the immersion. It feels like the game was started by one team, then finished by another, less experienced one. Between that and being killed by invisible enemies in doorways thanks to some awful draw clipping (oh this enemy's in the next room? Don't need to render him, even though there's clear line of sight and he's actively attacking you), I'm disappointed so far. Only 4 hours in though, so there's plenty of time yet.

What area did the bolded happen in?

 

[Durante]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

When they announced that they were leading DS2 development on PC I thought it was mostly lip service.

Maybe it wasn't.

 

[CountAntonius]

When they announced that they were leading DS2 development on PC I thought it was mostly lip service.

Maybe it wasn't.

Yep. This engine was made for PC and they struggled porting it down. Plain and simple.

 

[UnrealEck]

From what I've played on PS3, the level design seems really lazy in many places. Things just seem really poorly done and the world doesn't seem like it's real. Many right-angled rooms and areas, many areas really badly textures (some large rooms have one texture for the entire wall and ceiling). Pretty much all the areas in the game don't seem like they're meant to be anything. It looks so artificial like it's all been pieced together. Some NPCs don't even seem like there's been any thought put into them at all.

I came accross a room which has one door and a bonfire inside it. Nothing else is in the room. It is entirely square and has the same texture for the walls and ceiling. It reminded me of the sort of square room you make for your first map when you start mapping for games.

Demon's Souls seemed to have a better designed world. Most things seemed to be placed and filled. Dark Souls was also quite good but DS2 has so many random artificial looking areas that look very very amature.

 

[Trey]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

Not like this...

 

[Fallout-NL]

Yep. This engine was made for PC and they struggled porting it down. Plain and simple.

That would be the first time in history of multiplatform games if true.

 

[Alienous]

That would be the first time in history of multiplatform games if true.

I think FROM is inexperienced enough with making PC games to make that mistake.

 

[BigDug13]

That would be the first time in history of multiplatform games if true.

Huh? This would be the first time in history that a game was originally designed for PC and came off struggled for consoles? Seriously? I certainly remember Morrowind on OG Xbox. Magic Carpet, Diablo, Xcom for PS1. Doom SNES and GBA. Wing Commander SNES. Need I continue? Because I can certainly keep going.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Huh? This would be the first time in history that a game was originally designed for PC and came off struggled for consoles? Seriously? I certainly remember Morrowind on OG Xbox. Magic Carpet, Diablo, Xcom for PS1. Doom SNES and GBA. Wing Commander SNES. Need I continue?

I get this feeling that he was being sarcastic.

 

[BigDug13]

I get this feeling that he was being sarcastic.

Haha ok. It's hard to tell with some posters sometimes.

 

[Krappadizzle]

That would be the first time in history of multiplatform games if true.

I'm not sure you know what you are saying.

Edit: Sarcasm is hard to understand sometimes. Most times actually on the internet.

 

[so1337]

After playing about 10 hours of the game, I think we should stop complaining about the downgrade and start complaining about the performance of this game. Or maybe we can do both. This is completely unacceptable. The entire game runs like it is running underwater on PS3.

Blighttown was bad but this is sustained and awful. There is AWFUL input lag and there is even MENU lag. There is AUDIO lag.

FROM FIX THIS SHIT

THANK YOU. Who cares about a graphical downgrade if the game they shipped doesn't even run well? With all the effects from the earlier builds in place the game would literally be a slideshow.

 

[Toxi]

I came accross a room which has one door and a bonfire inside it. Nothing else is in the room. It is entirely square and has the same texture for the walls and ceiling. It reminded me of the sort of square room you make for your first map when you start mapping for games.

Go check out the Bonfire in the Depths in Dark Souls 1. It's a square room with a Bonfire and nothing else.

 

[Alienous]

THANK YOU. Who cares about a graphical downgrade if the game they shipped doesn't even run well? With all the effects from the earlier builds in place the game would literally be a slideshow.

Many care because the game doesn't run well. Still.

They removed the pretty effects and that didn't dramatically raise the performance, at least on PS4.

 

[-MD-]

THANK YOU. Who cares about a graphical downgrade if the game they shipped doesn't even run well? With all the effects from the earlier builds in place the game would literally be a slideshow.

I care... but I'm intending to play on PC where I presume I'll be enjoying a solid frame rate like last time.

 

[U-R]

Everyone just keeps throwing this picture up here, as if it's indicative of the graphical quality for the entire game. It is not. You've picked one area with one poor texture. If I wanted to (I don't) or I had the time (I don't have that either), I could probably find a texture that shitty looking in Crysis 3.

Protip: people are not comparing Crysis3 to Dark Souls2, they are comparing the version of Dark Souls 2 printed on the box VS what is actually inside the box.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I'm not sure you know what you are saying.

I get this feeling that he was being sarcastic.

No I was being serious actually and, fret not, I do know what I'm talking about. Let me clarify.

Huh? This would be the first time in history that a game was originally designed for PC and came off struggled for consoles? Seriously? I certainly remember Morrowind on OG Xbox. Magic Carpet, Diablo, Xcom for PS1. Doom SNES and GBA. Wing Commander SNES. Need I continue? Because I can certainly keep going.

Those are all PC exclusives ported at a later stage in their life. I don't think it has ever happened before that a developer would build a game specifically for PC knowing full well that, whatever they were doing would have to function on (nearly a decade old) consoles as well (during a nearly simultaneous release no less).

That's why I used the word 'multiplatform' games. Usually they just develop for the weakest link and allow for some added post processing in the PC version. Nothing like what we're hoping for her. It would be extremely unlikely, is what I'm saying.

/edit: it's what Durante meant when he said he thought it was mostly 'lip service'.

 

[Sickbean]

There's definitely something funny going on with the gamma. With the PS3 RGB set to limited (as it should be for a TV) I can't make the dragon appear. With it set to full range I can't make the dragon disappear. I've got a plasma TV so I'm leaving it set to limited cause the blacks look black. In game, everything works as it should - dark areas are really dark without a torch, and lighting sconces is vey helpful.

It's still my game of the year so far all said - just as good as it's predecessors.

 

[so1337]

Many care because the game doesn't run well. Still.

They removed the pretty effects and that didn't dramatically raise the performance, at least on PS4.

Sure. I guess the bottom line is that this whole release is unacceptable.

I care... but I'm intending to play on PC where I presume I'll be enjoying a solid frame rate like last time.

I'm with you. I pretty much lost my desire to play the PS3 version after enduring 1.5 hours. I'll make damn sure that the PC version isn't busted before I buy it though.

 

[robin2]

That would be the first time in history of multiplatform games if true.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/26/dark-souls-2-engine-created-with-next-gen-in-mind

I think the engine isn't "made for pc", it's made "for 'next gen' consoles and pc".
It leaded on pc because of obvious technical reasons (new consoles being x86).

If the new engine will appear in all its glory in the DS2 pc version, though, is yet to be known.

 

[BigDug13]

No I was being serious actually and, fret not, I do know what I'm talking about. Let me clarify.



Those are all PC exclusives ported at a later stage in their life. I don't think it has ever happened before that a developer would build a game specifically for PC knowing full well that, whatever they were doing would have to function on (nearly a decade old) consoles as well (during a nearly simultaneous release no less).

That's why I used the word 'multiplatform' games. Usually they just develop for the weakest link and allow for some added post processing in the PC version. Nothing like what we're hoping for her. It would be extremely unlikely, is what I'm saying.

/edit: it's what Durante meant when he said he thought it was mostly 'lip service'.

Probably because they're secretly working on next gen versions of the game and that was actually what they were aiming for and what we have right now is just the last gen versions of a crossgen game. (I hope)

 

[Chuck]

Does anyone have any screenshots of DS1 doing texture stamping stuff anywhere near as bad as DS2 does? I don't ever remember textures looking this awful playing through DS1 last month.

 

[Pie and Beans]

O____O

Yeah this game was not ready to ship.

 

[dan2026]

People keep saying the game doesn't run well. But the 360 version seems to run ok from all I have seen. Apart from the screen tearing.

 

[BigDug13]

People keep saying the game doesn't run well. But the 360 version seems to run ok from all I have seen. Apart from the screen tearing.

Above 30fps with tearing on one console or sub-30fps with no tearing and 30 second load times on the other console. Both of the versions of this game are compromised in some way performance-wise, and that's not even considering all the visual downgrades described in this thread. Why is any of this acceptable or defensible?

 

[Persona7]

O____O

Yeah this game was not ready to ship.

The game I am playing definitely seems complete.

 

[Screaming Meat]

O____O

Yeah this game was not ready to ship.

Why is the contrast/brightness so high in that picture? The game looks bad compared to DS1 but not as bad as that picture.

 

[Fallout-NL]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/26/dark-souls-2-engine-created-with-next-gen-in-mind

I think the engine isn't "made for pc", it's made "for 'next gen' consoles and pc".
It leaded on pc because of obvious technical reasons (new consoles being x86).

If the new engine will appear in all its glory in the DS2 pc version, though, is yet to be known.

Probably because they're secretly working on next gen versions of the game and that was actually what they were aiming for and what we have right now is just the last gen versions of a crossgen game. (I hope)

It would explain a lot, for sure.

 

[dan2026]

Above 30fps with tearing on one console or sub-30fps with no tearing and 30 second load times on the other console. Both of the versions of this game are compromised in some way performance-wise, and that's not even considering all the visual downgrades described in this thread. Why is any of this acceptable or defensible?

And yet there wasn't this level of outcry when areas in Dark Souls 1 were literally running at 5fps. That game was still the critical darling.

 

[OminoMichelin]

Why is the contrast/brightness so high in that picture? The game looks bad compared to DS1 but not as bad as that picture.

it's an off-screen screenshot.
I'm waiting for the PC version but I did cave in and watched a few minutes of the intro (x360), even on YT, the stuttering was noticeable :/

 

[Tizoc]

I have a feeling this'll be the topic of tomorrow's Jimquisition, if not for an upcoming ep.

 

[BigDug13]

And yet there wasn't this level of outcry when areas in Dark Souls 1 were literally running at 5fps. That game was still the critical darling.

Right, but it wasn't promoted as having all these flashy graphics so hard only to have none of what was promised show up at release. There was a bunch of that this time, hence this thread.

 

[Garcia]

Why is the contrast/brightness so high in that picture? The game looks bad compared to DS1 but not as bad as that picture.

Phone pic, night time. Feel free to upload a better looking version of that place, it won't change the fact that those textures are revolting (for a late PS3 game).

 

[malboroking]

And yet there wasn't this level of outcry when areas in Dark Souls 1 were literally running at 5fps. That game was still the critical darling.

Your right, I never heard anybody complain about Blighttown. It was a real surprise when I got there and saw the framerate, because nobody on GAF said anything about it.

 

[Garcia]

The game I am playing definitely seems complete.

Complete =/= ready to ship.

 

[kvn]

Your right, I never heard anybody complain about Blighttown. It was a real surprise when I got there and saw the framerate, because nobody on GAF said anything about it.

Lol, this is bullshit and not true.

 

[tehPete]

What area did the bolded happen in?

Just after you come across the bonfire and the merchant with the impressive rack, taking the normal route around you come across the open area, with the tree you walk up. I walked out to the tree first time, & walked back in not thinking anything of it - I didn't realise that walking out there aggro'd enemies. I was stood near the doorway and all of a sudden an enemy materializes and kills me. I thought it might have been a ring effect or similar, but they're just basic enemies at that point.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Phone pic, night time. Feel free to upload a better looking version of that place, it won't change the fact that those textures are revolting (for a late PS3 game).

I didn't say anything about the textures, because, for the most part, they are shit. I don't think using poor quality photography is much help in making a point.

 

[Saintguine]

Your right, I never heard anybody complain about Blighttown. It was a real surprise when I got there and saw the framerate, because nobody on GAF said anything about it.

Why do people tell lies on the Internet?

 

[Bedlam]

Problem is, there are entire sections of the game plastered with N64/PS1 era textures:


Yeah, shitty pic quality, I know. Anyone could upload Hi-res photos of those same areas and it won't change the fact that they look hideous.

Yup. Just finished the Shaded Woods / Ruins levels and man, that part is not very pretty. The repeating textures are hideous in many places and that actually bothers me way more than any lighting changes. Some sections do feel downright unfinished. Also that room with the first primal bonfire after the Lost Sinner ... it was just a rectangular box with repeating textures and no details whatsoever. None. Not a single item in there.

I mean, there are some beautiful levels in this game but others are butt-ugly. The inconsistency of the game's art design is staggering.

I'm pretty sure the same can be said about Dark Souls 1

I know DS1 also had highs and lows but trust me, this goes beyond anything in DS1.

 

[AJ_Wings]

Your right, I never heard anybody complain about Blighttown. It was a real surprise when I got there and saw the framerate, because nobody on GAF said anything about it.

Lots of people were looking forward to the PC version specifically because of Blighttown. On this very forum.

 

[Nohar]

Without going as far as using hyperboles (talking about PSOne or N64 textures is an exaggeration/overstatement), the textures of the retail version of Dark Souls 2 are definitly not what most players were expecting, especially compared to the videos and screenshots available thus far and released 6 weeks prior to release. People have been deceived.

Also, yeah, the Blightdown catastrophic framerate is a real thing, and I hated that area for that reason.

Edit: And, yes, Marlboroking was probably sarcastic. Definitly failed a sarcasm check there.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Why do people tell lies on the Internet?

Yeah, GAF harped on Blighttown almost to the point of unreasonableness. Almost. Blighttown was awful.

PC Dark Souls (with pad) is just revelatory.

 

[Corpekata]

I think Marlboroking was being sarcastic folks.

 

[Casimir]

When they announced that they were leading DS2 development on PC I thought it was mostly lip service.

Maybe it wasn't.

You're going to end up still having to release your own series of patches to get basic PC fuctionality working in DS2 regardless.

 

[Fried Food]

And yet there wasn't this level of outcry when areas in Dark Souls 1 were literally running at 5fps. That game was still the critical darling.

This isn't even about the technical issues. DS1 wasn't advertised as looking way better than the final game.

And before you say that bullshots and CG trailers are used to advertise games all the time, betas and demos that look waaay better then the final game rarely happen.