A lot of console only devs are just getting to grips with the newer techniques afforded by modern GPUs and are focusing on getting physically based lighting engines up and running first because that can have such a dramatic effect on materials rendering. Tessellation will probably be in the second and third year titles since it's more focused on minute details.
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Watch_dogs: Wind, Water, light effects - [PS4 version confirmed]
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A lot of console only devs are just getting to grips with the newer techniques afforded by modern GPUs and are focusing on getting physically based lighting engines up and running first because that can have such a dramatic effect on materials rendering. Tessellation will probably be in the second and third year titles since it's more focused on minute details.
UnrealEck
Member
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
So if PS4 doesn't have water tesselation (as someone compared from the other video which showed a more flat water) how was this new video running on PS4? I thought tesselation was not in the console versions of the game.
aY227
Member
Thief and Ryse used tessellation too.
Battlefield 4 probably used tessellation too for distance geometry, similarly to BF 3.
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The nvidia quote could about world geometry tessellation, not water.
This is an isntance in which Ubisoft's PC development experience will come in handy.
In fact, I suspect that studios with PC development chops will be the ones to bring the msot ipressive console games out earliest.
SuperSonic1305
Member
This thread got amazing
SniperHunter
Banned
pretty sure it has water tech. I remember eurogamer mentioning how great the water looked on PS4 last year in a preview they wrote
Sho_Nuff82
Member
AAA gaming as we know it wouldn't exist without the money being dumped into it by console gamers.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Lmao @ dat ubisoft troll. Thread is hilarious.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Someone earlier in the thread compared water specifically though. That's why I asked.
Raitosaito
Member
He's implying that titles like Metro Last light which is much better looking on PC was also release on consoles, and it was needed so that the developers can get the ROI to keep on making games. And in specific threads there are individuals who wish a lot of titles never came to console so they can somehow have a version of a game that never existed.
You should become an industry analyst. Well maybe you need to change the attitude a bit but if you're so much more accurate than the others out there you could really make a name for yourself.
To be honest though: I respond better to actual evidence or citations than I do about hearsay. And let's not forget the source of the hearsay here is you, the guy that didn't know how much a AAA PC game sells, even though we have more than one thread for every major publisher's quarter fiscal report.
You think these AAA developers can live from Steam alone? Don't you think it's odd that you rarely hear about the PC sales figures of games outside of the big PC franchises like Diablo? And why do you think so many PC exclusive developers brought their games to consoles (in genres that can work with a controller) and catered to that market?
Think about it. The leading graphical powerhouse brought their next Crysis games to consoles for a reason. How many top of the line graphical games that's exclusive to PC can you think of?
I meant they can afford to have amazing looking games that aren't 1-2 hours because of the millions of people who buy their games on consoles.
Muffdraul
Member
Yeah, I thought they banned challenging to ban bets.
UnrealEck
Member
I was questioning why you think games on PC wouldn't look as well as they do without console versions.
Why do I think there's PC games ported to console? More money obviously. Doesn't mean it's mandatory.
As for the sales, figures are rarely released because they're not accurate. There's so many avenues in digital sales that there's never an accurate picture.
How are you defining a AAA game?
Are there more than 1 way to define AAA game?
TheKastorian
Member
LOL at this thread. Just enjoy the game when it comes out, people! (Well..if it turns out to play as good as it looks)
chickdigger802
Banned
do we even know all the controls for this game yet?
From the footage available, it seems like adrian plays like assassin creed, but with cover shooter bits... so kinda like SC Blacklist.
wonder if there is any depth in melee like counters.
From the footage available, it seems like adrian plays like assassin creed, but with cover shooter bits... so kinda like SC Blacklist.
wonder if there is any depth in melee like counters.
Muffdraul
Member
To some people it means a big budget top of the line high quality awesome game.
To some it just means mega budget game.
The same can be said about third party console devs though - outside of the Japanese amrket, almost all third party publishers put their games out on PC. In fact, most big third party publishers have a tleast one PC exlcusive title, even though no one is paying them to make it PC exclusive.
What? You're saying tracking digital sales are less accurate than retail trackings?
What the hell is going on?
The former are wrong and the latter are right. AAA denotes importance for a publisher which has manifested itself in the console space as high budget for development and more importantly marketing.
UnrealEck
Member
That's why I'm asking.
nelsonroyale
Member
Yeah, I think the lighting in the new vid is probably better to be honest.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
This games has provide more fun without even being gold, than it has any right to.
the video never looked good.
the video never looked good.
It's not rocket science.
Retail has sunk in costs -> manufacturing, packaging, shipping.
Retail itself gets a big cut (about 25% I believe), then comes the platform manufacturer.
Digital on PC doesn't have any sunk in costs except for bandwidth, and that's a hell of a lot cheaper than manufacturing a physicla product and sending out on trucks all over the place. And there's no retail cut. If you make the sale on your own store like EA and Acitivision do, that's almost pure profit each and every sale. You could sell 4 times less copies than on retial consoles and make a similar profit.
Even if you're going through Steam, each sale is still goign to be much more profitable. The figure of about 2, 2.5 is something I've heard devs say in various podcasts, but I'll try to dign up a more concrete source.
It's why it is staggering to think about the amount of money Blizzard made on say Diablo 3. On PC it sold around 12+ million copies, but if SC2 is any measure, about 80+ percent were digital sales. In terms of PROFIT it as if they had sold almost 30 million copies of a retail console game.
That's nuts. How many games make that much money? GTA probably? And COD I think.
derExperte
Member
The reason why for example Bethesda doesn't release sales data for Skyrim PC certainly isn't because those numbers are bad. That thing is still selling and selling and selling.
Are you really questioning that the overhead of selling a console game via retail is muchmuchmuch higher than selling a PC game over Steam?
Chobel
Member
Canis lupus did a good summary
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=106638758&postcount=506
Also make sure to read childplease comments in this thread.
I don't know why you assert this. It's as if you've not read my first post about this.
I make an argument from authority and my authority is Pachter and I asked Nirolak if he thought those numbers make sense and except for licensing he didn't object.
To convince me otherwise I need some more valuable authority to chime in, not just you with your hearsay. THAT is not rocket science.
No. How about your address my post where I laid out the exact scenario where retail makes more money.
Edit: On second thought, I wouldn't describe them as "muchmuchmuch", so I guess I do question that assertion.
Fushichou187
Member
Ubi did it to themselves with a patently misleading hype campaign surrounding a target render. Oh man how much worse it would have been had that thing launched when it was supposed to...
Having said that, I am still definitely intrigued as to how the gameplay will pan out. The aforementioned downgradeaton was enough to get me to cancel my preorder, but if the game ends up being well-received, I'll definitely pick it up down the line.
Muffdraul
Member
Duly noted... that that's how you choose to interpret it. It started out as a quality rating and it was that for a long time, and to many of us it still is. How publishers and other industry insiders use it is their own business.
You got the chronology wrong. The AAA term didn't originate with the enthusiasts to describe quality.
Pachter is an idiot. Frankly I'm dubious of your ability to reason if you think otherwise.
If you actually think a retail sale makes more money than a digital one... well, I guess I'll just bow out of this discussion with you. Not worth my time.
Muffdraul
Member
Just my luck to run into a bona fide expert. Duly noted again.
I didn't say it originated with enthusiasts. It originated with video game companies... to denote quality to consumers.
EDIT: I guess I should have said " How publishers and other industry insiders use it today is their own business." The meaning of the term you're trying to enforce is really more of an internal thing not intended for the public.
Sounds like you guys are saying the same thing why the disagreement? Also you have to take into account that the volume of digital sales are probably aligned with deep discounts.
Have to agree - graphics whoring is going to kill this generation. Making stuff this pretty costs ... money. Lots of money. Every time the bar is raised it just makes it harder for companies to spend less without journalists/gamers complaining that it looks last-gen etc.
And that restricts our range of choices, and pushes companies further towards safe bets, recycled IP and so on.
I'd have been happy with everything looking like it did last time (let's say Uncharted 3 quality), but being 1080/60. Imagine how nice everything would feel to play.
If you actually had read what I wrote then you might not have to make up strawmen and would't have to bow out of the discussion. But then again we wouldn't be having this discussion because there would be no reason for you to post.
Also you calling Pachter an idiot is funny. Your Watch Dogs PC predictions was as wrong as the worst I've ever read from Pachter.
It never meant that. It meant sales expectations which historically have been linked to budget and marketing in the console space.
Your edit also doesn't make sense. We have much more price flexibility today than we had in the past, so a publisher intentionally advertising an "A" or "AA" product for the same cost to consumer as "AAA" game from a different publisher seems very strange.
derExperte
Member
Found this older article: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/opinion-retail-vs-steam I suspect the bigger publishers get better deals but I just can't believe Pachters numbers, a measly $10 won't make up the difference, that's just not possible when you think about all the parties involved when selling through retail. And as Kinthalis has said others have said the same things in interviews, tweets etc.
Maybe the fact that it's true, If we only had PC you would barely have games to play.
Consoles fund the industry this is pure fact. PC's have been able to make games that look like this for about 4 years why do you think they have not emerged till now?
Meh. The hardware gets better, the programmers are able to make better tools, the artists can leverage those better tools to make better looking games in a similar time frame, with a simialr amount of effort as last gen.
Hell something as straight forward as globla illumination means asset/level development becomes lots easier.
It's not like now artists have to spend a ton moe time making textures that don't look like pixelated ass. The original textures never looked that bad. They already made high resolution textures, and as part of the optimizaiton pass, they got compressed and down ressed to hell in order to fit in tiny memory footprints.