Could Bruce Lee be competitive in today's MMA?
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Epsilon-delta
Banned
As long as I've been on GAF, you always take potshots at Bruce Lee or Navy SEALs whenever you get the chance.
Did a member of Bruce Lee's family or a NAVY SEAL do something to you that we don't know of?
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Such a loaded question with so many variables.
I'm going to assume it prime Bruce Lee who wants to get into MMA. Though he seems far better suited to more striking sports like K1, but let's say he's interested in MMA.
Considering his passion for constant training, I can't imagine Bruce not studying a sport dominated by grappling; he'll probably practice religiously. Competitive fighting sports, he would be placed in the lighter weight class to since he is about 135lbs.
In short, damn if I truly know, maybe?
I'm going to assume it prime Bruce Lee who wants to get into MMA. Though he seems far better suited to more striking sports like K1, but let's say he's interested in MMA.
Considering his passion for constant training, I can't imagine Bruce not studying a sport dominated by grappling; he'll probably practice religiously. Competitive fighting sports, he would be placed in the lighter weight class to since he is about 135lbs.
In short, damn if I truly know, maybe?
ZackieChan
Member
Some of you don't know anything about Bruce Lee or how he fought. As someone else pointed out, he was doing "MMA" before it was called "MMA." That's a bullshit term, anyway, since Bruce's Jeet Kune Do was exactly that. Taking everything good from any martial art and throwing the rest away. He studied grappling with Gene LaBell. Larry Hartsell, one of Bruce's students, who I got to train with before he passed away, was also heavy into grappling with Bruce.
Movie Bruce Lee is very very different that IRL Bruce Lee, who knew what he was doing in all ranges.
What does this even mean? The guy trained all the time, in all ranges (Kicking, Punching, Trapping, Grappling).
Movie Bruce Lee is very very different that IRL Bruce Lee, who knew what he was doing in all ranges.
What does this even mean? The guy trained all the time, in all ranges (Kicking, Punching, Trapping, Grappling).
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Those saying he would "dominate" his weight class, please watch Jose Aldo vs Frankie Edgar and then see how certain you are that he'd have an ungodly speed or striking advantage.
No-one disputes that he trained in multiple disciplines, but there's a difference between training grappling as part of developing a martial arts philosophy and the high intensity, dedicated rolling required to succeed in competitive MMA (sorry, "bullshit" term, though I don't see why). Did he train with Olympic wrestlers? What about BJJ? How do modern day JKD practitioners fare in ADCC?
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Evilore vs Bruce Lee?
Man that's a toughie. I think I'd bet on the Brucester. Sorry Evilore!
Man that's a toughie. I think I'd bet on the Brucester. Sorry Evilore!
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Anyone with skill and talent could compete with the training. If he used only what he knew when he died he might win a few like most of the flash in the pan guys do, like Machida. But he seemed like a professional and would have trained in all parts of the game.
Lee could definitely have some success in MMA. I don't think it would be big success but it would be success nonetheless. Especially if he gets proper training. He would easily put on some weight/muscle and fight at 170 in the UFC.
Bruce Lee in his prime vs St-Pierre at 170 in his prime would be a great fight. Lee probably wouldn't win but the fight would be very exciting to watch. I would guess Lee would be like a lighter and faster Cung Le.
Bruce Lee in his prime vs St-Pierre at 170 in his prime would be a great fight. Lee probably wouldn't win but the fight would be very exciting to watch. I would guess Lee would be like a lighter and faster Cung Le.
ZackieChan
Member
You're assuming that he wouldn't have done so. Another poster made the "time capsule" analogy, and I think that is apt, since it is obvious that Bruce would have continued to learn and adapt (as his students and their students have since).
However, you do have a point about the proportion of training. Certainly JKD practitioners, at least the ones that I knew and trained with, would not be as good at grappling as those who dedicated themselves to it. But a JKD practitioner isn't really training to be good in the ring. So, when training specifically for MMA contests, one would adjust their training accordingly. The mindset is totally different. For instance, while I did study grappling, I concentrated mostly on Filipino martial arts, which would get me destroyed in the ring.
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
You do realize guys that fight at 170 are really like 200 pounds, right?
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Should be renamed to I am Wolf Tickets.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
At Trivial Pursuit? You might want to narrow the scope here.
You're right, Dim Mak isn't allowed in MMA. It's in the rules right next to knees to the head of a grounded opponent. Clear disadvantage for Bruce.
lol. You know that bjj, Kickboxing, etc are all for street fighting and a means to kill someone with your hands right? Someone has to explain to me what Bruce Lee can do outside of a sanctioned fight that a person who fights MMA would have a problem with.
PoloBlue28
Banned
Bruce Lee wouldn't be Bruce Lee if he fought in MMA. He would have to adapt, learn how to grapple, how to fight in the octagon and so on. Assuming he would learn all these things, there probably wouldn't be much left of his original fighting style. He'd probably be a world class strikes though.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
You know what it takes to be a world class striker? A big gas tank and enough power to either put someone down before the gas runs out or enough gas to score so many points that it doesn't matter. If EL's numbers are at all accurate, he didn't have either the cardio or the power. Kickboxing, boxing, MMA... name the sport. His hands are on his kneecaps in three minutes.
Lambda Pie
Banned
no scoring points in street fights, man.
Buakaw would be laying flat on is back if he fought Lee in the back alley of a whorehouse in Hong Kong.
Can Crusher
Banned
Playboy would be a pillow fist if there ever was one.
If Someone gets good control of you grappling you won't be able to do either and they have the option of killing you. Good luck getting into range of someone that understands striking without eating some punches or a good leg kick that can destroy an untrained person's leg.
Bruce Lee fought one guy behind closed doors. He says he won in 3 minutes, other observers claim the match took 20-25 minutes and the outcome was unresolved. Bruce refused a rematch in public. He also lightly sparred one of his instructors once in public. (Wikipedia)
He didn't participate in or win any martial arts or combat sports tournaments, only did things like the one inch punch demonstration at a Karate tournament, and exhibition demos in full body armor.
Basically, he didn't do anything other than train and make movies. Fighting high class opponents for real would be actual evidence of his capabilities. He didn't send out open challenges to all the fighters in Brazil and fight them all without any rules like the Gracie family did to develop and prove the real world efficacy of BJJ (the UFC was originally created for this purpose too). He didn't go around brutalizing everyone in Judo and then challenging other styles (including BJJ, boxing, and wrestling) all around the world like Kimura. He didn't win numerous world championships and demonstrate his talent countless times against the largest possible pool of quality live opponents like Sugar Ray Robinson.
Who the fuck is Bruce Lee and why does he matter in the context of fighting, other than having a cool progressive philosophy on crosstraining and inspiring a lot of 8 year old kids?
His legacy is manufactured by movies and his instructors and friends talking him up. There's no empirical basis for it. The empirical evidence we do have actually points to him not being impressive athletically, mostly just aesthetically.
Explain to me the basis for saying he'd be a world class professional striker or MMA fighter. Instructor lineage is irrelevant. Enter the Dragon is not a documentary. The heavy bag doesn't hit back. Chi doesn't exist. People don't seem to think Jet Li would be champion of the world in anything, because he clearly wouldn't be, because despite being a martial artist he's a movie actor and movies aren't real, and martial arts movie choreography bears no resemblance to fighting. Jet Li is too fast for the screen too, and Fist of Legend is way more impressive than Enter the Dragon. Let's proclaim Jet Li UFC champion.
He didn't participate in or win any martial arts or combat sports tournaments, only did things like the one inch punch demonstration at a Karate tournament, and exhibition demos in full body armor.
Basically, he didn't do anything other than train and make movies. Fighting high class opponents for real would be actual evidence of his capabilities. He didn't send out open challenges to all the fighters in Brazil and fight them all without any rules like the Gracie family did to develop and prove the real world efficacy of BJJ (the UFC was originally created for this purpose too). He didn't go around brutalizing everyone in Judo and then challenging other styles (including BJJ, boxing, and wrestling) all around the world like Kimura. He didn't win numerous world championships and demonstrate his talent countless times against the largest possible pool of quality live opponents like Sugar Ray Robinson.
Who the fuck is Bruce Lee and why does he matter in the context of fighting, other than having a cool progressive philosophy on crosstraining and inspiring a lot of 8 year old kids?
His legacy is manufactured by movies and his instructors and friends talking him up. There's no empirical basis for it. The empirical evidence we do have actually points to him not being impressive athletically, mostly just aesthetically.
Explain to me the basis for saying he'd be a world class professional striker or MMA fighter. Instructor lineage is irrelevant. Enter the Dragon is not a documentary. The heavy bag doesn't hit back. Chi doesn't exist. People don't seem to think Jet Li would be champion of the world in anything, because he clearly wouldn't be, because despite being a martial artist he's a movie actor and movies aren't real, and martial arts movie choreography bears no resemblance to fighting. Jet Li is too fast for the screen too, and Fist of Legend is way more impressive than Enter the Dragon. Let's proclaim Jet Li UFC champion.
Lambda Pie
Banned
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8mlaw_cradle-2-the-grave-jet-li-vs-ufc-f_sport
the only reason they're alive is cause Li held back on his Snake and Crane shaolin style.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It wouldn't be exciting at all. GSP would have like a 40-50 lbs weight advantage and would just take Bruce down at will. This isn't Tekken.
Yeah, I think he could be competitive. Against the right kind of opponent. But Chuck Norris also said Bruce was just an actor and Chuck has the hardware to back it up.
So let's just move on to Iron Mike in his prime entering the MMA. Would he take the head off a Gracie who tried to submit him or would he be reduced to trying to eat their ear off?
So let's just move on to Iron Mike in his prime entering the MMA. Would he take the head off a Gracie who tried to submit him or would he be reduced to trying to eat their ear off?
You're completely ignoring jeet kune do and the contribution it did to martial arts in general. It's safe to assume that he wouldn't be unbeatable but it's not as safe to assume that he would be garbage (unless you say that he has no time to prepare for the ring). And no, some randomass stats about him squatting 60kg doesn't mean squat (heh), the only things we know for sure just by watching footage is that he had a really strong core and a really strong grip.
Lambda Pie
Banned
now this is a funner discussion since Tyson actually has accolades.
to answer your question, every fight starts standing, so Tyson always had a window to work his boxing in.
ihearthawthats
Banned
So you didn't state your fight record yet. Or I would love to see vids of yourself up on youtube.
Unless you were using you vs bruce lee as a joke?
Lambda Pie
Banned
Hickson. he would probably fuck the chimp afterwards.
Butterbean: 5' 11", 417 lbs.
Really throws the overrated term 'pound for pound' out the window when you have all the pounds.
I just lol'ed into throwing up in my mouth.
Ninja Scooter
Member
He would get embarrassed the same way hay other fighter without TDD would.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Tyson might have fared decently in the very early days of the UFC if he had some TDD but he would've been a one trick pony like a much better Tank Abbot and others like him or Royce and other Gracie who's careers tapered off after people started getting JJ defense. Then again, Tyson was still young enough in the early-mid 90s and with the right trainer could've gotten pretty decent if he managed to take to it like he did boxing, well if he didn't go to prison and all that. 80s and even 90s Tyson after he lost his edge would KTFO of Bruce Lee.
Bruce Lee's version of the one inch punch was pretty much a traveling carny level demonstration. Despite his ripped bodybuilder like look, the dude was under weight given his size and underpowered. But hey, he played a super martial arts using bad ass in movies and died relatively young.
Bruce Lee's version of the one inch punch was pretty much a traveling carny level demonstration. Despite his ripped bodybuilder like look, the dude was under weight given his size and underpowered. But hey, he played a super martial arts using bad ass in movies and died relatively young.
killamajig
Member
So, around the early 90s when I was twenty-ish. I wanted to get serious about martial arts. Being a Bruce fan I had read a buch of JKD stuff and found a guy that was instructor certified by Dan Inosanto in Chicago. Only two people removed from Bruce himself. Sweet.
My instructor also taught Muay Thai and competed in old fashioned kickboxing. Long story short, after about 6 months I ended up training Muay Thai in his other class. Even though he loved JKD and was still passionate about it he lifted the veil from my eyes about all the bullshit in martial arts. I asked him once what was the best martial art to learn for one on one fighting. He replied wrestling. He said a good high school wrestler would get the better of most guys that do (as he called it) patty cake sparing. There is no substitute for being able to practice your skill full on in matches.
Oh, and a guy with less than a year of plain Judo almost speared me and my two years of striking training head first into the mat. Lol.
I love Bruce Lee for inspiring me but I really don't believe he was a real life "fighter".
My instructor also taught Muay Thai and competed in old fashioned kickboxing. Long story short, after about 6 months I ended up training Muay Thai in his other class. Even though he loved JKD and was still passionate about it he lifted the veil from my eyes about all the bullshit in martial arts. I asked him once what was the best martial art to learn for one on one fighting. He replied wrestling. He said a good high school wrestler would get the better of most guys that do (as he called it) patty cake sparing. There is no substitute for being able to practice your skill full on in matches.
Oh, and a guy with less than a year of plain Judo almost speared me and my two years of striking training head first into the mat. Lol.
I love Bruce Lee for inspiring me but I really don't believe he was a real life "fighter".
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
I'm making no assumptions. I'm sure if Bruce Lee was of fighting age in 2014 and wanted to compete in MMA (BTW, if you think that's a bullshit name for the sport because JKD was already mixing styles then JKD is a bullshit name for an art because Vale Tudo and Pankration existed decades and millenia before it, respectively) he would train his grappling accordingly. However your initial post implied that you thought the grappling he did train was sufficient to succeed in MMA, as you were responding to a poster who said that he may have been competitive with a few years of intense training (which is actually ridiculously high praise). It seems like a lot of posters (not necessarily you ZC) want to have it both ways, saying you can't just bring Bruce Lee from the 60s and expect him to compete BUT BTW HE WAS A COMPLETE MASTER OF THE FIGHTING ARTS WHO TRAINED GRAPPLING AND WAS PROFICIENT IN ALL STYLES HE WOULD DOMINATE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masutatsu_Oyama
They made an awesome film about him: Fighter in the Wind
How about Ip Man or Wong Fei-hung?
They made an awesome film about him: Fighter in the Wind
How about Ip Man or Wong Fei-hung?
TheFightingFish
Member
I'm not trying to toss too much shade on the MMA guys, but as someone who wrestled up to the DIII collegiate level I really do wish that wrestling caught on more as opposed to MMA. I'd love to get back to wrestling, but there are pretty much only MMA gyms around anymore, wrestling is basically just a high school thing now. I feel like wrestling has a ton to recommend it. As you mentioned you can go full speed in practice way more often without the fear of body damage. Plus I can't really stand the promotional aspects of stuff like the UFC. Just not cool enough looking of a spectator sport I guess.
A lot of great MMA fighters came from wrestling backgrounds.
I thought it was insane when the IOC temporarily removed wrestling from the Olympics.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Lol this post is laughable! Van Damme couldnt handle Lee.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Go to BJJ. A lot of wrestlers do it. It's fun and you'll have a slight advantage when it comes to posture and top control.
Most of the JKD guys like Inosanto and Erik Paulson are BJJ black belts. Even Chuck Norris is a BJJ black belt. Bruce Lee had just brought in Larry Hartshell to work on the grappling aspects of JKD and was also beginning to cross train with Gene Lebell, so there is no question he would have been a decent level grappler/wrestler/submission guy if he was alive today. The whole philosophy of JKD is to cross train and to use what works (but in a self defence context) - it is very similar to modern MMA.
Well, three of them didn't keep going for long as the title suggests.
It is a movie and the way things are portrayed are romanticized at times but the director did have access to the autopsy reports from the Navy and used them to recreate the whole scene and show most of the injuries.
They did jump off several cliffs of more than 25 feet to escape the Taliban. Marcus Luttrell was more than lucky to be alive after all he went through, considering all his injuries:
No idea if he could have beaten Bruce Lee though.
Interesting bump.
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