Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 6: Final Destination confirmed for not fun

I think 50 characters is the sweet spot.

- the roster screen is symmetrical w/ random buttons.

- the website layout would be symmetrical in every format.

- already a threshold Sakurai has mentioned before.
 
It's not about playing as Pac-Man, it's about having Pac-Man in Smash as a symbol. Playing as Mega Man looks relatively uninteresting compared to Rosalina & Luma, Little Mac, Zero Suit Samus etc but there's no question having him in is a massive boost to Smash, and the same would apply to Pac-Man.

Personally I'd be hyped to see Mario v Mega Man v Sonic v Pac-Man battles in Smash.

I don't know what you're talking about, Mega Man looks just as fun as any of the other new characters. I'm hype as shit to try him out. I don't want Pac-man to be another Sonic though, i.e. little variety in his move set, generic and boring to play, etc.

And, for what it's worth, I'd love to complete the console war rivalry by getting Crash Bandicoot in this game to fight Mario and Sonic. It'll never happen, but I think a fight like that has a lot more behind it than Pac-man vs. Mario. Who really cares to see that, honestly? Pac-man is a good representation for video games as a whole, as well as Namco's involvement, but in relation to Nintendo and gameplay he's just about the most boring choice they could make.

He's going out of his way to show things competitive folks might like to know, not necessarily that the game itself is going to be great for competitive folks.

...is probably a more accurate statement

At the very least it shows this game will be above Brawl in that regard. Maybe it won't be at EVO but it's certainly not just a party game anymore.
 
Just noticed this post.
The fact that he's a vet and we got DDD and Lucario announced before him with zero hints of him returning is sorta fueling the fire.

Of course I'd love to believe I'm wrong. I'd also love to believe tripping was never a thing Sakurai intentionally put into a game!

You realize that Captain Falcon also was only officially revealed for Brawl with the game's launch right? Also, similarly to here, we saw the Samurai Goroh assist before Captain Falcon himself.
 
We are talking about a man who put Ice Climbers in Melee and ROB in Brawl. Sakurai and his team do not care about relevance. This is the same team that put Wii Fit Trainer in smash. They do what they want. It's not all dictated by polls and sales driven goals.
 
Pac-Man doesn't really have the appeal that third party characters should have either. Who is going to buy the game just to play as Pac-Man? I just don't see that happening. His series doesn't have that kind of personality following. That's the biggest problem I see with his inclusion, especially if it'll actually cost not only game budget itself, but also licensing from Namco.

They may not buy Smash because he's in, but it might be the other way around; Smash fans may come to favor Pac-Man.

Brawl already had 39 characters though... Sakurai always counted transformations as individual characters, so that doesn't change much. They had to be balanced both as an individual character and as part of a larger combined character, so I don't see how that'd make it easier to balance them. Do I really need to link Sakurai's quote again?

Are you saying you want this game to be balanced like Brawl?
Individualizing characters means that everyone has the same number of moves. This surely improves balancing.
 
I know Melee had terrible characters. I just mean that it seems like this game is getting Melee levels of care instead of Brawl levels. Brawl was pretty slapped together.

I think it's less that melee was built with a competitive ideal in mind, and more that Brawl was designed to be the antithesis of competitive play, even to the detriment of things that made it fun to everyone.
 
I think it's less that melee was built with a competitive ideal in mind, and more that Brawl was designed to be the antithesis of competitive play, even to the detriment of things that made it fun to everyone.
Sakurai has said in previous interviews that he worked extremely hard to make Melee balanced. He probably didn't have competitions in mind, but the game just has a ton of effort put into it. That is all I mean.
 
I know Melee had terrible characters. I just mean that it seems like this game is getting Melee levels of care instead of Brawl levels. Brawl was pretty slapped together.
I thought Melee was the slapped together, rushed one between the two.

I think it's less that melee was built with a competitive ideal in mind, and more that Brawl was designed to be the antithesis of competitive play, even to the detriment of things that made it fun to everyone.
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I couldn't resist.
 
I know Melee had terrible characters. I just mean that it seems like this game is getting Melee levels of care instead of Brawl levels. Brawl was pretty slapped together.

The leap from SSB to Melee still has me legit shook

There was so much in that game and it was all good. Brawl may have had more content, but stuff like SSE was a bore. event matches were way worse, pokemon were worse, items in general were worse, tripping was better, Etc.
 
I thought Melee was the slapped together, rushed one between the two.


image.php


I couldn't resist.
I am going by what Sakurai has said on the past.

The leap from SSB to Melee still has me legit shook

There was so much in that game and it was all good. Brawl may have had more content, but stuff like SSE was a bore. event matches were way worse, pokemon were worse, items in general were worse, tripping was better, Etc.
Agreed entirely. Brawl was a drop in quality in nearly every way.
 
I think Sakurai has gone out of his way to show that this game is made with competitive in mind, just like Melee was.

But Im pretty sure Melee wasn't made with that in mind. If anything Brawl did that more, although that was because he was going the opposite direction

He definitely does have balancing in mind this time though
 
The leap from SSB to Melee still has me legit shook

There was so much in that game and it was all good. Brawl may have had more content, but stuff like SSE was a bore. event matches were way worse, pokemon were worse, items in general were worse, tripping was better, Etc.

We're using this here too now?
lol
 
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - 59
Street Fighter X Tekken - 55

Also, I think the Dragon Ball Z games have over 100 characters.

And isn't Tekken supposed to be really balanced, and also made by Namco?

I don't know why people have so little faith in 50 characters still being a balanced and competitive game. Especially when we have post launch patches now.
 
The leap from SSB to Melee still has me legit shook

There was so much in that game and it was all good. Brawl may have had more content, but stuff like SSE was a bore. event matches were way worse, pokemon were worse, items in general were worse, tripping was better, Etc.

The leap from N64 to GameCube was also much bigger. Not to mention Melee our first game with the GameCube controller. Never has a controller suited a game so perfectly for me.
 
I liked Deathborn in GX. Too obscure?



They barely pull off Wii Fit Trainer. Phoenix Wright would be even harder.

I don't know...They made a moveset for a princess, a space mama, a race car driver, game and watch, an angel, a fox, bird and wolf pilot...I'm sure something can be done.
 
I don't know...They made a moveset for a princess, a space mama, a race car driver, game and watch, an angel, a fox, bird and wolf pilot...I'm sure something can be done.

Once you set aside "Objection!!" for his final smash, his moveset possibilities are pretty slim. Gather evidence? Drink coffee?
 
The fact that he's a vet and we got DDD and Lucario announced before him with zero hints of him returning is sorta fueling the fire.

Of course I'd love to believe I'm wrong. I'd also love to believe tripping was never a thing Sakurai intentionally put into a game!

No, it's just the fans going paranoid with little reason. Yoshi just got announced, same with Shiek. Order of announcement doesn't matter, and we just saw an assist trophy from his franchise in the game. He is not going anywhere.
 
I dunno, what's his MvC moveset again?
Sneezing, scribbling in a notebook, shoving paper in enemies' faces, throwing paper, gathering evidence to use as projectiles, summoning Maya to use a shield or attack, Hold It and Objection text box attacks that stun, tripping, getting hit with the Judge's giant gavel etc. Oh and his throw is just him standing there while Missile comes out of nowhere and runs them over. lol

Final Smash would be just like his level 3 hyper, Ace Attorney, where he convicts the opponent of his crime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4yBT3XLUxc
 
There's something odd about this picture...


FD stages remove hazards right? Well Metroid stages are notorious for lava so... Ridley isn't the hazard. That wouldn't be a fun stage to play on with a Boss and lava. If you go back and look at several Pyrosphere pics they either have shots with lava in them, or shots with the camera away from the lava hatch. So it's hard to prove this true or not. We haven't had pics from under the stage either.
 
There's something odd about this picture...



FD stages remove hazards right? Well Metroid stages are notorious for lava so... Ridley isn't the hazard. That wouldn't be a fun stage to play on with a Boss and lava. If you go back and look at several Pyrosphere pics they either have shots with lava in them, or shots with the camera away from the lava hatch. So it's hard to prove this true or not. We haven't had pics from under the stage either.

I think stage hazard would be gone, but the results of stage hazard would appeared instantly when we started the battle because they skipped the entire stage hazard.

What's that ball thing at the center of the pic?


Shiek's new grenade attack. (I believe that it's Side B)
 
There's something odd about this picture...

FD stages remove hazards right? Well Metroid stages are notorious for lava so... Ridley isn't the hazard. That wouldn't be a fun stage to play on with a Boss and lava. If you go back and look at several Pyrosphere pics they either have shots with lava in them, or shots with the camera away from the lava hatch. So it's hard to prove this true or not. We haven't had pics from under the stage either.
Hmm, so the lava is also a stage hazard in that stage? It doesn't indicate Ridley is not a stage hazard, but it does indicate that lava may play a role in being a hazard.

The lava is missing here too:
http://a.pomf.se/pfgskn.webm

Every shot of the Pyrosphere that shows that section has lava spewing out here:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/stages/pyrosphere
So the bigger bomb is from Link. Villager's gonna be high tier. :|
???

You have to time it with Villager's Pocket special move.

And whether Sheik's new Grenade Burst can be picked up by Villager is unclear since it is different compared to other projectiles.
 
There's something odd about this picture...

FD stages remove hazards right? Well Metroid stages are notorious for lava so... Ridley isn't the hazard. That wouldn't be a fun stage to play on with a Boss and lava. If you go back and look at several Pyrosphere pics they either have shots with lava in them, or shots with the camera away from the lava hatch. So it's hard to prove this true or not. We haven't had pics from under the stage either.

Well you see in the standard gimmick version Ridley probably turns up and just continually vomits lava down into the pit below adding to the overall lava mass quicker leading to faster ascension to the mandatory Metroid stage gimmick of rising lava.

Okay so seriously speaking there is something to be said for the lack of flowing lava in the background of the FD version, though I wouldn't put it past the game having more than the single stage gimmick. And of course there's still a chance the lava flow is just for show with the hatch periodically opening for a more dynamic background or something.
 
I thought Melee was the slapped together, rushed one between the two.
I know I get on the "Brawl haters" boat far too often, but I just don't understand how anyone could feel this way looking at the two games in any sort of objective manner.

Everything Melee included had purpose in the grand scheme of the game. Every mode, every element was Smash Bros. Most of the additions Brawl had were in breadth, in things that were never Smash Bros. - the trophy shot minigame, the list of Nintendo-published games on every system, the random VC demos... the only thing of significance Brawl added was Stickers, and even those were a fairly simple manner of just pulling a ton of concept art from old Nintendo games.

And in nearly every facet Melee had more effort put into it. Melee's Trophies had a significant amount that were brand new models, whether to represent games that hadn't been in 3D before or simply to look good (did they need to make new 3D models for every Mario character they did?). Brawl had a few new models, but very, very few in comparison. The vast majority of Brawl's Trophies were simply imported from some new game or another - they obviously didn't put in anywhere near Melee's level of effort into that mode.

Most of Brawl's Events felt uninspired and halfassed when compared to Melee. Brawl had nothing that was at the level of Events like Legendary Pokemon, for instance. And I shouldn't have to even say anything about Target Smash, a mode utterly gutted somewhere along the line by the Brawl development process.

Even outside of speaking about stage design or some of Brawl's other unfortunate decisions in regards to modes (All-Star Mode, may you rest in peace), Brawl felt less like a cohesive package and more like a rushed product than Melee ever did.

Which is a big part of why I hope Smash 4 had more Melee and less Brawl.
 
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