Lens fare. Lots of lens flare.
I rewatched the Star Wars prequels for the first time in years ..
- Thread starter Raiden
- Start date
- Status
Mystery in the way you mean it here has nothing to do with telling a good story, necessarily. The prequels should have been a classical tragedy, in which you know how it ends but the journey is the point. Everyone knows what's going to happen to Macbeth, but watching his fall is tremendously harrowing and entertaining. Knowing where the story is headed can add to the suspense, because you don't know how you're going to get to the given endpoint.
What if Anakin had been a truly likeable, heroic figure, someone you rooted for and enjoyed seeing onscreen doing what he did? What if you had to sit there after the first movie wondering how the hell this guy was going to end up as Darth Vader? What if the twists and turns that got you to his fall were the most harrowing and exciting parts of the story? What if the actual nail in the coffin, the thing that caused Anakin to be "seduced by the Dark Side of the Force" was so attractive, so seductive, that you still half identified with the character's choice that led to his fall? What if you couldn't blame him fully, causing you to root even more for Luke to save him in RotJ?
There's a tremendously interesting story to be told from the basic skeleton of the Star Wars prequels. It just wasn't the one we got.
Delta Assault
Member
If you wanna see the Anakin story done right, go watch Chronicle. THAT is how you do a fall from grace story.
GentlemanCrow
Member
They make me mad, there were so many dumb decisions and no one stood up and tried to fix them.
When I see X-men First Class I see a better Star Wars prequel than anything Lucas did. You needed a friendship that you care about with men who were peers - a man already too far gone down a dark path to be saved and a naive younger friend who decides to try anyway.
The Jedi shouldn't have been monk-like religion, they should have been already dying out, a rarity and less of a group so much as a lifestyle. Yoda shouldn't have left Dagobah and should have been mythic and sought out by those wishing to be Jedi. Obi wan should have just left his training with him when he bumps into a pilot who has a dark slaving past which he is trying to resolve. They have various adventures like Luke and Han. Obi senses power in him and thinks he's the one who can train him and fix him.
I could go on. But it makes me sad that it will never happen
When I see X-men First Class I see a better Star Wars prequel than anything Lucas did. You needed a friendship that you care about with men who were peers - a man already too far gone down a dark path to be saved and a naive younger friend who decides to try anyway.
The Jedi shouldn't have been monk-like religion, they should have been already dying out, a rarity and less of a group so much as a lifestyle. Yoda shouldn't have left Dagobah and should have been mythic and sought out by those wishing to be Jedi. Obi wan should have just left his training with him when he bumps into a pilot who has a dark slaving past which he is trying to resolve. They have various adventures like Luke and Han. Obi senses power in him and thinks he's the one who can train him and fix him.
I could go on. But it makes me sad that it will never happen
OldKentuckyShark
Member
Yes, the prequels aren't that good, and the original trilogy was better, but they're not complete shit or anything. For me, there's enough good stuff for me to overlook most of the bad and enjoy the movies. Good stuff such as:
The soundtrack. The music in the prequels was awesome. Fact.
The designs. The designs, particularly those of the starfighters, capital ships, and citys/worlds, Are really good. To be clear, I'm talking about the designs, not how good/bad the cg was.
Then of course we have the fight scenes. The majority of fight scenes in the prequels were awesome, and a lot better than the ones in the original trilogy. I mean compare the fight between obi-wan and anakin at the end of Ep 3 to the one at the end of ep 4. The difference in quality is huge. In ep 4 they look like little kids playing with toy swords. It's not just the lightsaber fights. The prequel starship fights are a lot better than the originals, too.
One of the only problems I had with the prequels was the dialogue. There was just so much dialogue (combined with the actors sub-par delivery) that made me cringe with its awfulness. Although I actually sort of like hayden as anakin, at least when he wasn't talking. His facial acting/expressions were really good, and had me really believing the character he was playing. Of course, then he'd open his mouth and start talking, and the moment would vanish.
I actually didn't mind jar-jar that much, though I am glad they practically got rid of him in 2 and 3.
The soundtrack. The music in the prequels was awesome. Fact.
The designs. The designs, particularly those of the starfighters, capital ships, and citys/worlds, Are really good. To be clear, I'm talking about the designs, not how good/bad the cg was.
Then of course we have the fight scenes. The majority of fight scenes in the prequels were awesome, and a lot better than the ones in the original trilogy. I mean compare the fight between obi-wan and anakin at the end of Ep 3 to the one at the end of ep 4. The difference in quality is huge. In ep 4 they look like little kids playing with toy swords. It's not just the lightsaber fights. The prequel starship fights are a lot better than the originals, too.
One of the only problems I had with the prequels was the dialogue. There was just so much dialogue (combined with the actors sub-par delivery) that made me cringe with its awfulness. Although I actually sort of like hayden as anakin, at least when he wasn't talking. His facial acting/expressions were really good, and had me really believing the character he was playing. Of course, then he'd open his mouth and start talking, and the moment would vanish.
I actually didn't mind jar-jar that much, though I am glad they practically got rid of him in 2 and 3.
As someone who grew up with the pre-Special Edition OT and loved it since childhood, I have to say that as I've grown older I've come to like the prequels more. Mostly due to the story and the art design being far more interesting even if the acting and general execution can be cringeworthy.
I'm a forgiving guy.
I'm a forgiving guy.
Robot Pants
Member
Yea the Red Letter videos on the prequels are amazing. Nailed it.
Dusk Soldier
Member
I think it basically boils down to the fact that George had already created the super successful OG trilogy.
And there just weren't enough people working on the prequels who had the balls or the credentials to question his decisions.
The movies made a lot of money regardless, so in the end it really didn't matter.
Eh, I mean it was at least the story Lucas wanted to tell. The originals were just as commercialized. He didn't make them to whore-out the series. If he wanted to do that we'd have gotten them way earlier than we did.
Oh, I agree. It's just that it wasn't told as a tragedy. It was an epic-hero story, and because of that I think the lack of mystery makes it more difficult to make interesting.
I agree with your second point too. That's why I think he needed to be an adult from the beginning - there just wasn't enough time to tell of his rise and fall. I think he should have already been at his prime, and the rest was fall.
Looking at the series today, the prequels are not very good, but coincidentally I honestly have to point out that the original trilogy isn't very good either (to me). When I was younger, I really only liked the originals for their battle scenes, mostly Hoth. After the Hoth battle, we'd just change the channel or go and play because a lot of the movies were pretty boring for a kid.
The thing with Phantom Menace was that it was really flashy with the battles and the pod racing was definitely entertaining.
I don't know. I'm just sour and burnt out on the whole franchise so much. I'm so sick of hearing the sound effects and god, I never want to hear another Star Wars soundtrack song again.
The thing with Phantom Menace was that it was really flashy with the battles and the pod racing was definitely entertaining.
I don't know. I'm just sour and burnt out on the whole franchise so much. I'm so sick of hearing the sound effects and god, I never want to hear another Star Wars soundtrack song again.
That I agree with, in that the style of story Lucas chose was the wrong one for a story with a foregone conclusion. His obsession with making various story and action beats "rhyme" with the Original Trilogy didn't help at all, either.
This is one of the key conceptual flaws of the prequels as Lucas chose to make them. The Anakin described by Ben Kenobi in ANH is clearly an older and more accomplished person. At the very least, the "best starpilot in the galaxy" and "a good friend" parts should have been onscreen and not in the EU material.
I think we're on the same page. Internet high-five.
WordAssassin
Member
So, I've got a question for Star Wars GAF.
As a kid, I was into SW. I saw them rereleased in theaters, I watched the prequels as they came out. Somewhere along the line I decided I HATED Star Wars and it was fucking stupid and the fans drove me insane.
Recently I got hired at Lego and I will be first to admit that some of the Lego SW sets are pretty damn sick and I've bought a few already. On top of that, my girlfriend loves the movies and wants to watch them with me. Thanks to Lego, I am finally open to this idea.
What order do I watch in? 1->6? OT, then PT? And where does the Clone Wars series fit in, as I assume that's viewed as canon, right? Does it happen between 2 & 3? So should I watch it between movies, or after watching the movies? Does it even matter?
I figure that, now that I'm nearly 30 and have my wits mostly about me, if I'm going to give the series another shot I want to do it properly.
As a kid, I was into SW. I saw them rereleased in theaters, I watched the prequels as they came out. Somewhere along the line I decided I HATED Star Wars and it was fucking stupid and the fans drove me insane.
Recently I got hired at Lego and I will be first to admit that some of the Lego SW sets are pretty damn sick and I've bought a few already. On top of that, my girlfriend loves the movies and wants to watch them with me. Thanks to Lego, I am finally open to this idea.
What order do I watch in? 1->6? OT, then PT? And where does the Clone Wars series fit in, as I assume that's viewed as canon, right? Does it happen between 2 & 3? So should I watch it between movies, or after watching the movies? Does it even matter?
I figure that, now that I'm nearly 30 and have my wits mostly about me, if I'm going to give the series another shot I want to do it properly.
GentlemanCrow
Member
Just rewatch the originals, in order. Don't watch anything else, it's not worth the hassle.
I don't see any way that Episode 7 could be worse than the prequels. How do people reason this stuff?
brandonh83
Banned
Watch 4-6, then 1-3. Make up your own mind. For what it's worth I think all the movies have bad acting and writing, and I firmly believe that if the original movies came out today everyone would openly shit all over them.
There is so much lost in the way a lot of stuff is presented in the movies versus how its presented in say the novels.
Take his Nooo scream in ROTS. The novel explores what leads to it so its not just some goofy ass NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Instead you have Anakin finally realizing he was a tool and used by Palpatine and now powerless to stop Palpatine and why should he because Palpatine is all he has left.
Way too much stuff got glossed over because hey we only got 3 movies. Clone Wars shows a lot more of Anakins slow glide into darkness and its neat and a lot more believable because motivations etc. develop. Movies just go boom dark.
Take his Nooo scream in ROTS. The novel explores what leads to it so its not just some goofy ass NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Instead you have Anakin finally realizing he was a tool and used by Palpatine and now powerless to stop Palpatine and why should he because Palpatine is all he has left.
Way too much stuff got glossed over because hey we only got 3 movies. Clone Wars shows a lot more of Anakins slow glide into darkness and its neat and a lot more believable because motivations etc. develop. Movies just go boom dark.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
He reviewed all 3 movies, and he is absolutely right about them. They are garbage and deserved to be ripped to shreds like that.
I would honestly say do...
Episode 1, then The Clone Wars tv series, then Ep 3, 4, 5, 6.
Just wiki what you need to know for the tv show. Which while the show does start out slow, get's VERY good.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I fully acknowledge all the problems with that movie, but I'll always have such appreciation for the Maul encounters. Even the first one in the desert was badass because he was was about to just chop Anakin's head off without hesitation.
The final lightsaber/martial arts fight having no real dialogue was such a good idea and not just because the rest of the dialogue in the prequels was bad. Even putting aside the choreography (i like it), the pacing of the action during that scene was on-point. the random-ass laser walls don't really make sense, but seeing Qui-Gon calmly meditate while Maul paced back and forth like a panther captures their respective characters really built tension. Obi-Wan being stuck far away was agonizing and had me on the edge of my seat.
now that I think about it, I don't think I've watched any of the prequels more than once, and I'll probably keep it that way. I clearly remember the few good parts, so no need to taint my memories with the lame parts
Shalashaska
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qkhjN6xUG4M#t=121 until 2:11 kinda sums it all up really.. "it will look good"
I think the acting was weak but it must be tough to act when you're surrounded by blue/green screen.
I think the acting was weak but it must be tough to act when you're surrounded by blue/green screen.
Here's what Rick McCallum thought when he saw TPM:
All kidding aside, TPM and ROTS are still watchable. AOTC is the weakest. They're not the worst movies ever made, but they're just bland in the writing and character development. Scripts needed more collaboration and revision.
That lowres image looks like a painting.
Yeah, it would actually take great effort to make something worse than the prequels. I could totally see the new films not being great, and just being generic. Also, for all the things you can say bad about Abrams, the guy at least makes decent films, and gets good acting from his actors. I don't love his films by any means, but I can't see him putting out anything worse than what Lucas has in recent years.
The realy question should be, holy shit you work at Lego?
4 5 6
ignore the prequels. if you must watch them, watch them after the original trilogy. also, try to find the 2006 DVDs with the original, theatrical versions of the films, unless you like bad cgi in movies from the 70s/80s.
Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars mini-series was probably one of the few good things to have come out of the prequel trilogy. Which makes me all the more annoyed that one of the cooler villains of the show, General Grievous, was a towering cybernetic Sith Lord that had no problem slaughtering the best the Jedi Order had to offer, being tactically aggressive & having impressive acrobatic abilities.
In Revenge of the Sith, however, he became a wheezing coward that repeatedly flees until he is cornered.
In Revenge of the Sith, however, he became a wheezing coward that repeatedly flees until he is cornered.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Kids wouldn't probably like them because they are slow moving compared to, I dunno, Star Trek Into Darkness, or shit like that. But other than that, they still work very well. A couple of cheesy lines every now and then, but would people "openly shit all over them" because of that? Hell no, there are cheesy and stupid movies everywhere these days, at least the original trilogy had coherent plot and dramatically well directed action scenes. Those are rare in light scifi action movies.
professor_t
Member
I don't agree. The problem wasn't with the idea (a young, innocent Darth Vader), it was in the execution.
In fact, that's one of Lucas' downfalls -- in the early days, the ideas were so good, and the presentation so novel, the execution didn't matter as much. With the prequels, he had a great idea for a complete story arc, but the execution, hampered by the misguided notion that post-production editing and digital effects can fix anything, was an unqualified disaster. But the idea was nevertheless inspiring.
The tragedy of what Darth Vader ultimately becomes is intensified by our understanding of him as an innocent, well-meaning child, and his rousing redemption at the end of the saga resonates even more powerfully if we understand how far he has fallen. It could have worked beautifully in the hands of a gifted child director like Speilberg, but it fell apart with the wrong person at the helm.
Vader's redemption still works well in the context of the original trilogy (if you essentially disregard the prequels). I still get goosebumps when I think that "Return of the Jedi" may not be about Luke at all, but rather about Anakin Skywalker. It's a poetic and timeless sentiment.
I don't know, yeah, the acting was crap, but I thought that story arc was pretty believable, that is the power of the dark side.
Right on brotha
Agreed. ROTS is a good film and doesn't deserve to be shat on like the other prequels. IMO, it's a better film that Return of the Jedi.
Yeah. I think Lucas realized this mistake and was really hands on with the Clone Wars series to flesh out Anakin's character and make him more likable.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Biggest failing of the prequels imo. In ANH, the throwaway lines from Obi Wan about what a great friend and pilot Anakin was painted more of a tragic picture of his turn than what we got in the prequels. Just based on what we see on screen, ignoring any extended universe stuff, Anakin wasn't a great friend, or compassionate, or really a good person. The Anakin presented in the prequels is such an ass it makes everyone around look stupid for not seeing his turn coming.
Jawmuncher
Member
Had the prequels had the quality of Episode 3 from the get go. I don't think there would have been anywhere near as much hate for them. Still would have been considered not as good as the original trilogy but not in the infamous category they are put in.
Hell I rate Episode 3 higher than return of the jedi personally.
Hell I rate Episode 3 higher than return of the jedi personally.
Rewatched it last night and it's still absolutely terrible movie making. Such a crappy script with laughable dialogue. CGI overload with very questionable story telling (in fact I liked TPM better as a story). I think the only reason why people enjoy it is the fan service provided within.
I'm siding with other posters here concluding that the only good thing to come of the prequels are the amazing RLM reviews.
I'm siding with other posters here concluding that the only good thing to come of the prequels are the amazing RLM reviews.
Sapiens
Member
I thought they just got worse and worse with the culmination of terrible being Ep3.
I mean, really, they just keep getting worse.
4>5>6>1>2>3
With some wiggle room for which is better between 4 and 5.
You could pretty much make the same video of them having good moments. We're supposed to see where and why Anakin started turning. There is also a huge timegap between Episode 1 and 2 where they were pretty good friends.
I know the Red Letter videos are funny but they hammer on such stupid things and people take them seriously. If they wanted they could make a review like that of the original trilogy as well, pointing out dumb stuff.
Nah, to me it looks like a classic film/stage sword fight. You don't need acrobatics and green screen and rivers of lava and swinging from cables and 30 minute lengths to have a great sword fight. That stuff in the prequels, especially in Episode 3, looked like a cartoon or a video game. Oh boy, that wascally Vader jumped into lava! The part where they just swing and away and hit nothing for a second was a joke.
What a great duel needs is some emotional backdrop, some tension, some conflict. All that stuff was nonsense or completely unbelievable in Episode 3 and 2 and nonexistent in Episode 1.
No. No no no. This is objectively wrong and you should check into rehab.
megashock5
Member
Everyone should. After being obsessed with SW as a kid in the 70s and 80s, I had lost my love for it in recent years. When I watched his cut of A New Hope I smiled the whole time, felt like I was seven years old again.
Harmy is doing God's work.
Sorcerer
Member
Kenobi was trying to get Luke to become interested in the ways of the Force and becoming a Jedi.
I don't think telling Luke that his father was an ass would set him on the right path.
Thought people were hyperbolic, too, but yeah in rewatch I realized it was bad. Not that I didn't enjoy it when it came out, though! As much as I dislike prequel trilogy, it's still part of Star Wars until Lucas says it's not.
Suuuper hyped for Episode 7, though. It could very be horrible, but at least it's another journey of Star Wars on big screen. Those are rare events.
Suuuper hyped for Episode 7, though. It could very be horrible, but at least it's another journey of Star Wars on big screen. Those are rare events.
Yeah, it has so much potential to be great. I mean even watching ROTJ it actually makes room for sequels. With Luke telling Leia that in time she will also be able to use the force. So basically with that 30 year gap they're talking about they have the stage set for a couple of Jedis that Luke and Leia trained and a new Sith Lord that can come out of nowhere.
Maybe that old Sith master that Palpatine was talking about in Episode 3. The one who supposedly learned to prevent people from dying.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I think the sword fight near the end of Episode 1 was pretty good. Sure, there were some stuff that was there just so that one of the Jedis would be cut off from the battle from time to time, but the music and pacing made that a pretty good fight.
The fight at the end of Episode 3 was about the worst one we ever saw in the two trilogies... jumping on floating platforms on a river of lava? That was just so insanely stupid and fake looking. The next time the two people met, their fight was much better. Although the best sword fight of the two trilogies was at the end of Jedi, where Luke gets angry and just starts hacking with his sword. That looked great.
YES!! Dual of the fates is so goddamn amazing!
I NEED to see John Williams live with an orchestra at least once in my life.
Also, after watching through the 6 films again last week I decided to give the Clone Wars cartoon a try since they are on Netflix and I actually like it a lot. Sure there's some stupid kid aspects (mostly stuff with the battle droids) but overall I quite enjoy it. Tons of epic fights and space battles. Really enjoyable to watch.
Sorcerer
Member
There is a book about that old Sith Master. Its called Darth Plagueis.
The book is an awesome read.
Although the title is a bit misleading as its really about the rise of Palpetine and Plagueis figures into it.
It actually made me appreciate Phantom Menace a bit more after reading it.
- Status