Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 7: How Can My Smash Brother Be This Cut

Man I'm actually really excited for Palutena's Temple.

The thing is MASSIVE compared to Temple and New Pork City, but it's more like Temple with how it has large areas to fight on.

In a 1v1 setting the screen will stay zoomed in most of the time, but you'll be able to move around the different areas throughout the match and have a ton of variety.

Hopefully there's no stupid gimmicks on it like Centurion's popping up like those things in New Pork City. But Centurion's will be part of Palutena's moveset anyway so nothing to worry about ;)


Wait? I thought they would release Famicom Remix 1+ 2 tomorrow for Japan?

It is
 
Man I'm actually really excited for Palutena's Temple.

The thing is MASSIVE compared to Temple and New Pork City, but it's more like Temple with how it has large areas to fight on.

In a 1v1 setting the screen will stay zoomed in most of the time, but you'll be able to move around the different areas throughout the match and have a ton of variety.

Hopefully there's no stupid gimmicks on it like Centurion's popping up like those things in New Pork City. But Centurion's will be part of Palutena's moveset anyway so nothing to worry about ;)

New Pork City's only hazards were the Chimera and the horrible level design.
 
Urgh, clearly this Waddle Dee in today's pic is Sakurai trolling. He didn't outright say he wasn't a playable character, like he did with Waluigi, for a start. He also had Charizard 'eating' him, just like fans will eat up Waddle Dee's eventual, and at this point inevitable, announcement. Sakurai knows some fans want Waddle Dee to be playable; he's even appeared in some rumored/leaked rosters. The only real question is whether it'll be regular Waddle Dee or Bandana Dee, imho.

It'd be stupid for him to risk angering the fan base like this and after seeing Waddle Dee multiple times, without de-confirming him being playable, and then have him not be playable. The roster is already shaping up to be pretty terrible (no Ashley, Ivysaur being cut), trolling and then betraying fans of the series like that would just be insulting and he'd deserve all the backlash he got.
 
Urgh, clearly this Waddle Dee in today's pic is Sakurai trolling. He didn't outright say he wasn't a playable character, like he did with Waluigi, for a start. He also had Charizard 'eating' him, just like fans will eat up Waddle Dee's eventual, and at this point inevitable, announcement. Sakurai knows some fans want Waddle Dee to be playable; he's even appeared in some rumored/leaked rosters. The only real question is whether it'll be regular Waddle Dee or Bandana Dee, imho.

It'd be stupid for him to risk angering the fan base like this and after seeing Waddle Dee multiple times, without de-confirming him being playable, and then have him not be playable. The roster is already shaping up to be pretty terrible (no Ashley, Ivysaur being cut), trolling and then betraying fans of the series like that would just be insulting and he'd deserve all the backlash he got.

I'm really afraid to see your ideal roster if it included waddle dee, ashley, and ivysaur
 
Urgh, clearly this Waddle Dee in today's pic is Sakurai trolling. He didn't outright say he wasn't a playable character, like he did with Waluigi, for a start. He also had Charizard 'eating' him, just like fans will eat up Waddle Dee's eventual, and at this point inevitable, announcement. Sakurai knows some fans want Waddle Dee to be playable; he's even appeared in some rumored/leaked rosters. The only real question is whether it'll be regular Waddle Dee or Bandana Dee, imho.

It'd be stupid for him to risk angering the fan base like this and after seeing Waddle Dee multiple times, without de-confirming him being playable, and then have him not be playable. The roster is already shaping up to be pretty terrible (no Ashley, Ivysaur being cut), trolling and then betraying fans of the series like that would just be insulting and he'd deserve all the backlash he got.

10/10
 
I'm really afraid to see your ideal roster if it included waddle dee, ashley, and ivysaur

kgkHd9i.gif



I'm pretty sure that was satire post.
 
Urgh, clearly this Waddle Dee in today's pic is Sakurai trolling. He didn't outright say he wasn't a playable character, like he did with Waluigi, for a start. He also had Charizard 'eating' him, just like fans will eat up Waddle Dee's eventual, and at this point inevitable, announcement. Sakurai knows some fans want Waddle Dee to be playable; he's even appeared in some rumored/leaked rosters. The only real question is whether it'll be regular Waddle Dee or Bandana Dee, imho.

It'd be stupid for him to risk angering the fan base like this and after seeing Waddle Dee multiple times, without de-confirming him being playable, and then have him not be playable. The roster is already shaping up to be pretty terrible (no Ashley, Ivysaur being cut), trolling and then betraying fans of the series like that would just be insulting and he'd deserve all the backlash he got.

The sad part is, there's people who believe far worse things than this without a hint of irony.
 
That moment with Iwata and the bananas will always be a mystery. Not for what it was hinting at but simply why did he do it.
 
Urgh, clearly this Waddle Dee in today's pic is Sakurai trolling. He didn't outright say he wasn't a playable character, like he did with Waluigi, for a start. He also had Charizard 'eating' him, just like fans will eat up Waddle Dee's eventual, and at this point inevitable, announcement. Sakurai knows some fans want Waddle Dee to be playable; he's even appeared in some rumored/leaked rosters. The only real question is whether it'll be regular Waddle Dee or Bandana Dee, imho.

It'd be stupid for him to risk angering the fan base like this and after seeing Waddle Dee multiple times, without de-confirming him being playable, and then have him not be playable. The roster is already shaping up to be pretty terrible (no Ashley, Ivysaur being cut), trolling and then betraying fans of the series like that would just be insulting and he'd deserve all the backlash he got.

*clapping*
 
Okay, so the Ice Climbers didn't happen for the Japanese release of Famicom Remix 1+2. Unless they're revealed tomorrow for NES Remix 2's US release, it looks like those who bet on the Ice Climbers to be the next veteran reveal are probably out.

Up to bat next: the Meta Knight voters! (Myself included!)
Maybe we are not getting any new confirmations until Sakurai retreads everything that was already said in the Direct!
 
Urgh, clearly this Waddle Dee in today's pic is Sakurai trolling. He didn't outright say he wasn't a playable character, like he did with Waluigi, for a start. He also had Charizard 'eating' him, just like fans will eat up Waddle Dee's eventual, and at this point inevitable, announcement. Sakurai knows some fans want Waddle Dee to be playable; he's even appeared in some rumored/leaked rosters. The only real question is whether it'll be regular Waddle Dee or Bandana Dee, imho.

It'd be stupid for him to risk angering the fan base like this and after seeing Waddle Dee multiple times, without de-confirming him being playable, and then have him not be playable. The roster is already shaping up to be pretty terrible (no Ashley, Ivysaur being cut), trolling and then betraying fans of the series like that would just be insulting and he'd deserve all the backlash he got.

aU6OUgQ.gif


Post of the year.
 
Ice climbers for hard counter.

You know, it would be cool if the game was balanced so the Pokemon's types had a bit of an effect.

Greninja has an easy time against Charizard.

Charizard has an easy time against Lucario.

Lucario has an easy time against Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff has an easy time against Greninja.

All the right typings are there. It's a completely unrealistic idea, but it could technically work if they decided that they wanted to.
 
You know, it would be cool if the game was balanced so the Pokemon's types had a bit of an effect.

Greninja has an easy time against Charizard.

Charizard has an easy time against Lucario.

Lucario has an easy time against Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff has an easy time against Greninja.

All the right typings are there. It's a completely unrealistic idea, but it could technically work if they decided that they wanted to.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Type_effectiveness

Unless you're just referring to 'counter picks', where they're balanced to take eachother out.
 
You know, it would be cool if the game was balanced so the Pokemon's types had a bit of an effect.

Greninja has an easy time against Charizard.

Charizard has an easy time against Lucario.

Lucario has an easy time against Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff has an easy time against Greninja.

All the right typings are there. It's a completely unrealistic idea, but it could technically work if they decided that they wanted to.

Nah I would prefer if they keep everyone relatively equal after brawls broken type effectiveness.
 
You know, it would be cool if the game was balanced so the Pokemon's types had a bit of an effect.

Greninja has an easy time against Charizard.

Charizard has an easy time against Lucario.

Lucario has an easy time against Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff has an easy time against Greninja.

All the right typings are there. It's a completely unrealistic idea, but it could technically work if they decided that they wanted to.

Pikachu is apparently too top tier for this list and will become the new falco.
 
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Type_effectiveness

Unless you're just referring to 'counter picks', where they're balanced to take eachother out.

Yeah, I was referring to a counter pick type of thing. Although, I had no idea about the type effectiveness thing. That's pretty neat.

I just found out that Ice Climber isn't even in NES Remix 2. I think that kind of lowers their chances.

But it looks like Wario is in the game! Looks like the odds for my bet got a bit higher.
 
Yeah, I was referring to a counter pick type of thing. Although, I had no idea about the type effectiveness thing. That's pretty neat.



But it looks like Wario is in the game! Looks like the odds for my bet got a bit higher.

Counter picks are fine for a game like Dota, or any MOBA, where you have teams and you draft pick, but it's not that fun for a 1v1 of 4 player fighting game.

Oh, you picked charizard, guess i'll pick greninja.
Oh, well, you picked greninja, so now i'm picking pikachu.
Oh, you picked pikachu, now i'm picking... etc.

You either get unfair fights, or character selections that never end, or people agreeing not to play pokemon vs pokemon.
 
Counter picks are fine for a game like Dota, or any MOBA, where you have teams and you draft pick, but it's not that fun for a 1v1 of 4 player fighting game.

Oh, you picked charizard, guess i'll pick greninja.
Oh, well, you picked greninja, so now i'm picking pikachu.
Oh, you picked pikachu, now i'm picking... etc.

You either get unfair fights, or character selections that never end, or people agreeing not to play pokemon vs pokemon.

I'm not saying it should make a huge difference, but enough for people to warn about certain match ups.

Knowing your match ups is already a very important part of the meta game, and one that you need to know well if you want to take high spots in tournaments. There are certain characters that play really well against the Ice Climbers, for example. They have moves that can easily separate Popo and Nana. There are also characters that can chain grab and gimp spacies easily, because of their weight and recovery style. Some top players (Like Hax) play as Fox usually, but switch to C. Falcon when pitted against a bad match up. It's just part of the game to know match ups, considering the game can't be perfectly balanced anyways.

In any case, I don't expect any kind of "type balancing" to happen anyways. Just thought it would be a neat idea if it were implemented.
 
How about there's no actual effect on the game, but say if you hit Charizard with one of Greninja's water attacks "It's super effective!" pops up on the screen lol.
 
You know, it would be cool if the game was balanced so the Pokemon's types had a bit of an effect.

Greninja has an easy time against Charizard.

Charizard has an easy time against Lucario.

Lucario has an easy time against Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff has an easy time against Greninja.

All the right typings are there. It's a completely unrealistic idea, but it could technically work if they decided that they wanted to.

Brawl already had a small amount of this, except it was only for Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard and didn't impact any other character.

However, the bad thing about it was other characters could affect those Pokemon. Let me explain:

Ivysaur is weak to fire, right? Well, in Brawl, they made it so Ivysaur took more knockback from fire attacks. There's a plentiful amount of fire moves in the game so this hurt Ivy hugely. In contrast, Charizard is weak to water, right? Well, in Brawl, they made it so Charizard took more knockback from water attacks. Guess how many water attacks are in Brawl? At least 3 (Squirtle's Up B, Neutral B, and Mario's FLUDD). And then with Squirtle, he's weak to grass, right? Well, in Brawl, they made it so Squirtle took more knockback from grass attacks. Guess who is the only character with grass attacks? Ivysaur.

Meanwhile, Squirtle will resist fire attacks and take less knockback from fire based attacks (which, again, there are plentiful). While Charizard resists grass attacks and takes less knockback from grass based attacks (which again, only Ivysaur has). And Ivysaur only resists water based attacks, which means he takes less knockback from water moves (which again, there's only at least 3). And no, they didn't do dual-resistances so fire based attacks were not weaker against Charizard, same thing for grass attacks on Ivysaur and water attacks on Squirtle.

And that system was put in place on top of the already awful forced switching and stamina systems.

Basically, it was horribly implemented and imbalanced between these three Pokemon. It almost feels shoehorned in at the expense of any actual balance that a fighting game requires. If Sakurai took that system to a level where it affected all the Pokemon, it would be horribly imbalanced -- where some would have huge benefits while others would be completely bad based entirely on how common or uncommon certain elemental attacks are in the game.

Sakurai would have to make every character in the game have some kind of element to their attacks that would have an even positive and negative for each Pokemon and that ain't happening. This isn't Pokemon, it's a fighting game and while fanservice is great it's not at the expense of good balance. If fanservice can be added that makes characters better (i.e DK's rolling dash attack) then go for it. But if the negatives outweigh the positives it brings, they shouldn't do it.

It's just a terrible idea lol.
 
How about there's no actual effect on the game, but say if you hit Charizard with one of Greninja's water attacks "It's super effective!" pops up on the screen lol.
That would be cool, but either annoying or distracting after while I think.

I kinda like how they did it in Brawl (which I wasn't even aware of until just now). I'd like to see it just be an extra percentage point or something though. Something less meaningful than knockback. It's nice to have around as a nod to Pokemon, but not something I'd really be excited about as a mechanic in Smash.

Grass getting the short end of the stick because fire is fine with me. Grass is a bad type and grass should feel bad.
 
That would be cool, but either annoying or distracting after while I think.

I kinda like how they did it in Brawl (which I wasn't even aware of until just now). I'd like to see it just be an extra percentage point or something though. Something less meaningful than knockback. It's nice to have around as a nod to Pokemon, but not something I'd really be excited about as a mechanic in Smash.

Grass getting the short end of the stick because fire is fine with me. Grass is a bad type and grass should feel bad.

Damage is directly tied into knockback, though. I guess 1% wouldn't make a huge difference in how much knockback gets dealt but if it was like 5% more from fire attacks, Ivysaur would still die comparatively sooner from a Rest from Jigglypuff compared to every other character in the game (this is assuming Jiggly's Rest went back to fire typing lol).
 
That would be cool, but either annoying or distracting after while I think.

I kinda like how they did it in Brawl (which I wasn't even aware of until just now). I'd like to see it just be an extra percentage point or something though. Something less meaningful than knockback. It's nice to have around as a nod to Pokemon, but not something I'd really be excited about as a mechanic in Smash.

Grass getting the short end of the stick because fire is fine with me. Grass is a bad type and grass should feel bad.
Yeah, but then water should also get hit super effective by electric attacks (which there are a ton), fire should get hit super effectively by things like rock and ground, which there are a few more as well, and don't let me even get started on Greninja's Dark type and Lucario's steel. Bottom tier confirmed. You'd have to include all of those in, only counting grass-fire-water onl makes sense in terms of PT, who's dead and gone.
 
How about there's no actual effect on the game, but say if you hit Charizard with one of Greninja's water attacks "It's super effective!" pops up on the screen lol.

That would be cool, but either annoying or distracting after while I think.

I think it'd be cool if greninja KO's Charizard with a water attack. Every attack ever would be distracting, but a KO would be cool. It could also just appear above greninja's name, like little mac's power bar.
 
Yeah, but then water should also get hit super effective by electric attacks (which there are a ton), fire should get hit super effectively by things like rock and ground, which there are a few more as well, and don't let me even get started on Greninja's Dark type and Lucario's steel. Bottom tier confirmed. You'd have to include all of those in, only counting grass-fire-water onl makes sense in terms of PT, who's dead and gone.

Lol, steel and dark are weak to fighting, so they should take extra damage from every smash character that is even tangentially related to 'fighting'. Little mac weakness confirmed.
 
Lol, steel and dark are weak to fighting, so they should take extra damage from every smash character that is even tangentially related to 'fighting'. Little mac weakness confirmed.
Yup, pretty much every move that doesn't leave an effect would count. They'd probably be good against Ganondorf though.
 
Yeah, but then water should also get hit super effective by electric attacks (which there are a ton), fire should get hit super effectively by things like rock and ground, which there are a few more as well, and don't let me even get started on Greninja's Dark type and Lucario's steel. Bottom tier confirmed. You'd have to include all of those in, only counting grass-fire-water onl makes sense in terms of PT, who's dead and gone.

We can take it a step further and make pikachu weak to "ground" attacks lol.
 
Yeah, but then water should also get hit super effective by electric attacks (which there are a ton), fire should get hit super effectively by things like rock and ground, which there are a few more as well, and don't let me even get started on Greninja's Dark type and Lucario's steel. Bottom tier confirmed. You'd have to include all of those in, only counting grass-fire-water onl makes sense in terms of PT, who's dead and gone.
Yeah, I think you're more or less right actually. Without PT to kinda compartmentalize the gimmick, it kinda starts to open too much of a can of worms.

I think it'd be cool if greninja KO's Charizard with a water attack. Every attack ever would be distracting, but a KO would be cool. It could also just appear above greninja's name, like little mac's power bar.
Yeah, after a KO would work pretty nicely.

Lol, steel and dark are weak to fighting, so they should take extra damage from every smash character that is even tangentially related to 'fighting'. Little mac weakness confirmed.
Fairy and Psychic resist fighting though, right? Jiggs and Mewtwo for high tier.
 
Jiggly gets stuffed by steel though, so she'd have to watch out for Link, Marth, (Ike?), Meta Knight, and maybe Chrom and Shulk. And I guess ROB maybe?
 
As far as the items go, Smash needs predictability and consistency for competitive play, which items go against due to the randomness they bring to matches.
Brawl already had a small amount of this, except it was only for Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard and didn't impact any other character.

However, the bad thing about it was other characters could affect those Pokemon. Let me explain:

Ivysaur is weak to fire, right? Well, in Brawl, they made it so Ivysaur took more knockback from fire attacks. There's a plentiful amount of fire moves in the game so this hurt Ivy hugely. In contrast, Charizard is weak to water, right? Well, in Brawl, they made it so Charizard took more knockback from water attacks. Guess how many water attacks are in Brawl? At least 3 (Squirtle's Up B, Neutral B, and Mario's FLUDD). And then with Squirtle, he's weak to grass, right? Well, in Brawl, they made it so Squirtle took more knockback from grass attacks. Guess who is the only character with grass attacks? Ivysaur.

Meanwhile, Squirtle will resist fire attacks and take less knockback from fire based attacks (which, again, there are plentiful). While Charizard resists grass attacks and takes less knockback from grass based attacks (which again, only Ivysaur has). And Ivysaur only resists water based attacks, which means he takes less knockback from water moves (which again, there's only at least 3). And no, they didn't do dual-resistances so fire based attacks were not weaker against Charizard, same thing for grass attacks on Ivysaur and water attacks on Squirtle.

And that system was put in place on top of the already awful forced switching and stamina systems.

Basically, it was horribly implemented and imbalanced between these three Pokemon. It almost feels shoehorned in at the expense of any actual balance that a fighting game requires. If Sakurai took that system to a level where it affected all the Pokemon, it would be horribly imbalanced -- where some would have huge benefits while others would be completely bad based entirely on how common or uncommon certain elemental attacks are in the game.

Sakurai would have to make every character in the game have some kind of element to their attacks that would have an even positive and negative for each Pokemon and that ain't happening. This isn't Pokemon, it's a fighting game and while fanservice is great it's not at the expense of good balance. If fanservice can be added that makes characters better (i.e DK's rolling dash attack) then go for it. But if the negatives outweigh the positives it brings, they shouldn't do it.

It's just a terrible idea lol.

This.
 
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