Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 7: How Can My Smash Brother Be This Cut
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
DisconnectD
Member
You are a pedantic debate.
Me too, scooter
Something interesting that the GameXplain guys mentioned in their latest item discussion video grabbed me:
They suggested that the blue spiny shell while lining up it's target , may inadvertently give the thrower a chance to get an opponent off the edge before it strikes and that it's impact might meteor smash them.
Obviously completely speculative but a cool train of thought, nonetheless.
It would also be neat if the beehive item had a very low chance of falling out of villagers tree when chopped down and maybe even healing fruits.
Is that really his Up B though? I saw the gif of him getting some notable vertical distance, but the Spin Attack is still in so I figured it was some result of grabbing lots of Jump boosters in Smash Run.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Up-A Air. Used to be his Upward-Thrust from Zelda 2.
Anything is possible after Wii Fit Trainer, do it Sakurai!
Lord_Byron28
Member
They perform and behave differently. We dont say Zero Suit Samus, Sheik and Toon Link are NES characters for the very same reason. Wario is Wario throughout all his spin offs. He doesn't act like some other person or behave drastically different. He doesn't change his name to Wariodorf.
Nocturnowl
Member
My personal favourite is the legendary Flying Dragon Rayquaza residing in a lake.
Sky High Pokemon my arse.
Lord_Byron28
Member
My favorite is that Link for the first time obtains the triforce which can grant any wish he want and he just uses it to hold enemies and place while he hits them. Shoot for the stars Link.
Beelzebufo
Banned
The problem is that putting Ganondorf as an N64 character despite his earlier appearances dating back to the NES throws origin out the window. That's the problem, it's inconsistent.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Maybe he fell off the Sky Pillar
"A few"? Rayquaza lives in a lake. Pikachu learns Skull Bash. Metroid can't crawl. Ganondorf fights like Captain Falcon, who is somehow able to spontaneously ignite his limbs. Snake weighs more than a dragon, a dinosaur, and a heavily armored bounty hunter.
I'm not saying Smash isn't an amazingly detailed and loving tribute to Nintendo's history, it's just that it's often not been series-accurate.
EDIT
Lol, seems I'm not the only person who noticed this.
Scooter155
Member
At the end of OoT Zelda does something magic-y that holds Ganon in place while you hit him with the Master Sword, I assumed it had something to do with the piece of Triforce in her hand, and I also assumed that Link's Brawl FS was a callback to that moment.
Scooter155
Member
Buuuuuuuuuuuuut Ganondorf didn't appear onscreen until the N64 game, and was first mentioned by name in the instruction manual to Link to the Past, if I recall correctly.
DisconnectD
Member
His up B seems to be better and not because of powerups in Smash run. You can see it traveling further in other parts of the direct but that pictured is his Up air and it looks like the animation was changed to make it look more powerful, mimicking a lot of other animation changes so far.
I thought it was really weird/awkward until a watched the direct a bunch and got used to it. The still version of it will never look right, so best not to dwell on that lol.
I think it comes down to the character's name.
Link is Link. Even though he's based on his Twilight Princess incarnation, his trophy says that he debuted in the original Legend of Zelda. On the other hand, Toon Link is a specific name, and it refers directly to the design that first appeared in Wind Waker.
Ganondorf refers specifically to Ganon's humanoid form, which debuted in Ocarina of Time. His Melee and Brawl trophies consider OoT his first appearance, too.
DisconnectD
Member
Oh, I see. This is getting into semantics now. Zelda's origins are also NES but Sheik is N64, etc.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Anything was possible after Jigglypuff in 64 IMO. I mean let's be honest, there are a metric shit ton of characters who "should've" been in Smash before Jiggly lol
O.O sakurai does nothing BUT pay homage to the games heritage and history. This has only improved over time. Melee was a bit of a rushed game, and he was less meticulous back then. Look at sakurai's evolution over time, and tell me that KI:U doesn't do the franchise 100% justice.
Exactly!
Smash hype and discussion is the best of times!
It's his new UP A, not Up B. Used to look like his up stab from zelda 2. Can't find any good pictures.
DisconnectD
Member
Thanks for the clarification. That's true that there are a fair share of inconsistences, my point was that they are few in number relative to the sheer amount of accuracy overall.
Nocturnowl
Member
I'll not be able to interpret his final smash in any other way now.
Well I guess all that crumbling flooring on the way up can't be good for overall stability.
The new pose for the paralyzer looks more fierce, but ZSS' model needs to be worked on.
Was this the POTD? New screenshot blowouts?
DisconnectD
Member
Seeing as how Kirby basically has a more stylistic version of Link/Toon Link's FS, I bet they will both have new ones.
Here's hoping for Link's Skyward strike sword beam and Toon Link should summon a giant cyclone with his windwaker or perform his hurricane spin
Most of the inconsistencies can be dated back to smash 64/melee not being as faithful as sakurai had yet to hone his meticulousness. Compare Any veteran from smash 64 and how faithful they are (Link's taunt!?) to, say, MEGA MAN, who is literally the most faithful character recreation we've had to date. Sakurai has gotten much better over time. Not to mention the fact that smash 64 evolved from a non-nintendo-all-star-fighter into what it is now. They likely reused a lot of moves and abilities from the early alpha of the game and shoehorned those abilities onto nintendo characters. Same with the stages.
As for rayquaza, you can just blame that on subspace being not at all consistent with the nintendo universe. I mean, ganondorf looks at computer monitors!
Subspace is whatever! It makes no sense. Maybe rayquaza was looking for fish to eat!? Who knows.
All I know is that since KI:U, sakurai has proven to want to be as faithful to the character and fan expectations as possible, and it really shows. It'll be interesting to see what he does to the remaining characters we haven't seen.
Beelzebufo
Banned
That reminds me, Links taunt is the best in Melee. They better bring they back for the new Smash games.
Everyone in smash has 10 taunts now, each executed by inputting a street-fighter-like command. To access link's original taunt, you need to perform a hadouken on the D-pad + the minus button.
Beelzebufo
Banned
That'd totally be worth it too. Link's gotta keep lookin' good.
DisconnectD
Member
Most of the inconsistencies can be dated back to smash 64/melee not being as faithful as sakurai had yet to hone his meticulousness. Compare Any veteran from smash 64 and how faithful they are (Link's taunt!?) to, say, MEGA MAN, who is literally the most faithful character recreation we've had to date. Sakurai has gotten much better over time. Not to mention the fact that smash 64 evolved from a non-nintendo-all-star-fighter into what it is now. They likely reused a lot of moves and abilities from the early alpha of the game and shoehorned those abilities onto nintendo characters. Same with the stages.
As for rayquaza, you can just blame that on subspace being not at all consistent with the nintendo universe. I mean, ganondorf looks at computer monitors!
Subspace is whatever! It makes no sense. Maybe rayquaza was looking for fish to eat!? Who knows.
All I know is that since KI:U, sakurai has proven to want to be as faithful to the character and fan expectations as possible, and it really shows. It'll be interesting to see what he does to the remaining characters we haven't seen.
This is probably why it has taken this many iterations of Smash Bros. for Link to get his Jump Slash, DK to get his roll, etc. That and because in a fighting game, people get attached to movesets and rightfully so. I will be crushed if Falco is changed significantly from Brawl and if Marth gets any nerfs. Looks like he is getting buffs though with longer range sword attacks and a stronger shield breaker MUHAHAHA
Melee wasn't rushed.
Also, as pointed out earlier, Brawl did the exact same thing with Rayquaza.
You think turning Kid Icarus into a story-driven rail-shooter was doing it 100% justice?
Beelzebufo
Banned
Or just make him even more like Captain Falcon lol
DisconnectD
Member
He is referring to the details and little nuances that reflect Sakurai's admiration and awareness of the KI franchise as a whole.
I.e: Reapers see you, charge you maniacally and the OG underworld music plays
Alternatively they could make Captain Falcon's extra moves make him more like Ganondorf. A compromise!
I think that basically explains a lot of concerns people have about stuff not being 100% faithful.
In summary:
- Fighting game with non-nintendo characters was prototyped
- Fighting game became smash 64
- Many abilities were kept due to development time/cost
- Fans grew attached to those abilities
- Moves stayed the same through each smash iteration because changing them would upset fans of smash bros
- Sakurai reaches turning point in his career with KI:U where he makes a game that is meticulously crafted to be as faithful as possible while being new.
- Result: Anything is possible for smash bros 4
Beelzebufo
Banned
Anything is possible=Taking moves that are directly from games and changing their animations to no longer be from the source material (Link upA, ZSS B)
The Bankslammer
Member
clearly the solution is smash bros edition select
They didn't take their sweet time with melee either. I doubt we'd have clones at all if they did.
As far as being faithful to its origins, absolutely. Sure, gameplay-wise, it's not faithful, but it literally encompasses every single thing that happened in the first two games. Every enemy, every stage, everything has story around it, explained, etc. Absolutely. I don't think i've seen a retro revival of any franchise that was a SEQUEL (not a reboot) be so faithful to its predecessors.
Nope. Not from any Zelda game I've ever played. I can't vouch for the CD-i games though
DisconnectD
Member
Pretty succinct list.
I'd be willing to bet that Custom movesets are going to play a bigger role than people think and the reason more wasn't revealed on it was possibly because it is tied to the cross platform connectivity. An article from 2 years ago comes to mind and to paraphrase it: The portable ver. will be taking advantage of it being a more personal experience while the Wii u ver. Will be what you already know and love about Smash Bros. with better effects and bigger stages, etc. The two will connect; you being able to take your character you've built up in the single player on the portable to the Wii u arena to fight your friends.
Or something to that effect. I was totally going by memory.
I think it's supposed to be a reference to the skyward strike thing.
Doesn't work though. Instead it just comes out looking like a really awkward version of his old up air that actually was from one of his games.
Scooter155
Member
Press pack.
I really don't see how the two are related at all.
There is some obvious shift in his thinking after Brawl considering the types of newcomers that are in Smash 4.
That was the old one.
Tumblr has an opinion on this too!So either this pic is really old, or it was a pretty recent change (unless this is some sort of taunt I'm not aware of):
Current one:
They way her stomach is bending and how her legs meet up with her hip looks a bit weird.
DisconnectD
Member
It doesn't look at all how I remember the Skyward strike looking and why bother referencing it when he never charges one in the air in SS & can't charge one in Smash 4?
I think it is just an animation change to reflect it being a more powerful attack. If you watch it in motion in the direct, it looks like he thrusts the sword up with more force and it has a bit better range. This is my hypothesis.
The funny part is that Rayquaza looking for fish is just as inaccurate to the source material.
The updated version of Metroid is widely considered one of the best games ever made.
You can do a lot when updating gameplay.
Clones were actually made because they had extra time and space.