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[WrenchNinja]

Pretty sure eggs were discovered pretty much at the beginning of gold and silver. Hence the whole big deal about getting it from Mr. Pokemon's house and all that

I don't know, I never got that impression from his dialogue. It just seems like all they think is that it's a weird ass egg, that ended up hatching into a weird ass rare Pokemon in Togepi

Elm: "<player>! There you are! I needed to ask you a favor. I have an acquaintance called Mr. Pokémon. He keeps finding weird things and raving about his discoveries. Anyway, I just got an e-mail from him saying that this time it's real. It is intriguing, but we're busy with our Pokémon research. Could you look into it for us? I'll give you a Pokémon for a partner. They're all rare Pokémon that we just found. Go on. Pick one!"

Mr. Pokemon: "Hello, hello! You must be <player>. Prof. Elm said that you would visit. This is what I want Prof. Elm to examine." (hands over Mystery Egg) "I know a couple who run a Pokémon Day-Care service. They gave me that Egg. I was intrigued, so I sent mail to Prof. Elm. For Pokémon evolution, Prof. Elm is the authority. Even Prof. Oak here recognizes that. If my assumption is correct, Prof. Elm will know it."

Elm: "<player>, this is terrible... Oh, yes, what was Mr.Pokémon's big discovery?" (player hands over egg) "This? But... Is it a Pokémon Egg? If it is, it is a great discovery! What?!?! Prof.Oak gave you a Pokédex? <player>, is that true? Th-that's incredible! He is superb at seeing the potential of people as Trainers. Wow, <player>. You may have what it takes to become the Champion. You seem to be getting on great with Pokémon too. You should take the Pokémon Gym challenge. The closest Gym would be the one in Violet City. ...<player>. The road to the championship will be a long one. Before you leave, make sure that you talk to your mom."

 

[Bardiche]

Saw this coming especially with the hints in Pokemon X/Y. I've always been a fan of Sapphire, so Alpha Sapphire will be the one to get. Kyogre > Groudon

 

[Aaronrules380]

Oh.

I don't believe it will be.

The current Pokemon Canon (which is silly to talk about, but it's a real thing) BEGINS with Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen, so to remake Ruby and Sapphire would mess up a whole lot of things timeline-wise. This mixed in with the fact that the press release and trailer keeps reiterating this is a brand new adventure makes me think this is more of an indirect sequel.

Same bosses, places, but totally revamped to the point where it's nearly unrecognizable.

It was confirmed as a remake. That said, I'm sure it'll be equivalent to stuff like the HGSS remake where they update the story and events and add more areas for post game

 

[GamerJM]

Oh.

I don't believe it will be.

The current Pokemon Canon (which is silly to talk about, but it's a real thing) BEGINS with Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen, so to remake Ruby and Sapphire would mess up a whole lot of things timeline-wise. This mixed in with the fact that the press release and trailer keeps reiterating this is a brand new adventure makes me think this is more of an indirect sequel.

Same bosses, places, but totally revamped to the point where it's nearly unrecognizable.

Where is X/Y on the current Pokemon canon timeline? Do we even know for sure?

I know gen 3 happens at around the same time as gen 1, could gen 6 take place around that time as well?

 

[Hatchtag]

Oh.

I don't believe it will be.

The current Pokemon Canon (which is silly to talk about, but it's a real thing) BEGINS with Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen, so to remake Ruby and Sapphire would mess up a whole lot of things timeline-wise. This mixed in with the fact that the press release and trailer keeps reiterating this is a brand new adventure makes me think this is more of an indirect sequel.

Same bosses, places, but totally revamped to the point where it's nearly unrecognizable.

Pokemon XD and Colloseum are compatible with RSEFRLG despite not taking place at the same time. Same for B2W2 and BW. So having it be really compatible with X and Y won't automatically make the new games take place at the same time.

 

[Beelzebufo]

And my point is that gamefreak doesn't give a shit. If they did magnemite wouldn't have been steel type in fire red and leaf green. Stop trying to put some vague continuity stuff as a priority over gameplay in a series that never cared that much about continuity. It makes no sense

Fire Red and Leaf Green were in a different continuity though. This is in the same continuity as games like DPPt, which is now ruined as well. You're missing the point.

WHich is irrelevant since it wasn't even widespread during X and Y and it doesn't need to be widespread in the new remakes. Just say that Steven got those stones on a trip to Kalos. It makes perfect sense, especially since it fits in with stuff Steven is already known for

That's true, but it would also mean no other characters could have them, which seems like a missed opportunity.

Where is X/Y on the current Pokemon canon timeline? Do we even know for sure?

I know gen 3 happens at around the same time as gen 1, could gen 6 take place around that time as well?

It takes place at the same time as BW2. We know this for sure.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I don't know, I never got that impression from his dialogue. It just seems like all they think is that it's a weird ass egg, that ended up hatching into a weird ass rare Pokemon in Togepi

Elm: "<player>! There you are! I needed to ask you a favor. I have an acquaintance called Mr. Pokémon. He keeps finding weird things and raving about his discoveries. Anyway, I just got an e-mail from him saying that this time it's real. It is intriguing, but we're busy with our Pokémon research. Could you look into it for us? I'll give you a Pokémon for a partner. They're all rare Pokémon that we just found. Go on. Pick one!"

Mr. Pokemon: "Hello, hello! You must be <player>. Prof. Elm said that you would visit. This is what I want Prof. Elm to examine." (hands over Mystery Egg) "I know a couple who run a Pokémon Day-Care service. They gave me that Egg. I was intrigued, so I sent mail to Prof. Elm. For Pokémon evolution, Prof. Elm is the authority. Even Prof. Oak here recognizes that. If my assumption is correct, Prof. Elm will know it."

Elm: "<player>, this is terrible... Oh, yes, what was Mr.Pokémon's big discovery?" (player hands over egg) "This? But... Is it a Pokémon Egg? If it is, it is a great discovery! What?!?! Prof.Oak gave you a Pokédex? <player>, is that true? Th-that's incredible! He is superb at seeing the potential of people as Trainers. Wow, <player>. You may have what it takes to become the Champion. You seem to be getting on great with Pokémon too. You should take the Pokémon Gym challenge. The closest Gym would be the one in Violet City. ...<player>. The road to the championship will be a long one. Before you leave, make sure that you talk to your mom."

look at the bolded part again

 

[Berordn]

Fire Red and Leaf Green were in a different continuity though.

...and how do you come to this conclusion?

 

[Beelzebufo]

look at the bolded part again

That doesn't mean it's the first time it's ever been discovered lol. You're just making stuff up.

...and how do you come to this conclusion?

...because Red didn't go on the same journey twice? Is this a serious question?

 

[Aaronrules380]

Fire Red and Leaf Green were in a different continuity though. This is in the same continuity as games like DPPt, which is now ruined as well. You're missing the point.


That's true, but it would also mean no other characters could have them, which seems like a missed opportunity.

The only characters who had it in XY were the villain, rival, champion and protagonist. And I guess that one gym leader for story reasons. If steven gives the player the mega ring and a mega stone then he'd probably have a mega as well, and no reason your rival couldn't get one mysteriously at another point post game like in XY. And maybe the enemy leader also stole one at some point

 

[WrenchNinja]

look at the bolded part again

I did. For something that's supposed to be a huge scientific discovery, he seems pretty non plussed and more interested in you gaining a Pokedex and Oak's approval.

 

[-Horizon-]

At the this point, I won't be surprised to see them retcon the already flimsy timeline.

 

[Boss Doggie]

TEAM ALPHA ROCKS

 

[Aaronrules380]

That doesn't mean it's the first time it's ever been discovered lol. You're just making stuff up.


...because Red didn't go on the same journey twice? Is this a serious question?

Why would the fact that it's a pokemon egg be a great discovery if people already knew about them. He didn't say anything about the type of pokemon egg, just the fact that it seemed to be a pokemon egg itself was a great discovery

 

[harmonize]

The current Pokemon Canon (which is silly to talk about, but it's a real thing) BEGINS with Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen, so to remake Ruby and Sapphire would mess up a whole lot of things timeline-wise.

In the same way that FRLG upspured RBY from being the beginning of the Pokemon canon, so will ORAS do to the RSE portion of the continuity (arguably, Emerald already made Ruby and Sapphire non-canon). The remakes have replaced their predecessors with an updated canon both times they've been done, it's silly to think that they'll make an exception with Ruby and Sapphire.

 

[Berordn]

...because Red didn't go on the same journey twice? Is this a serious question?

...Is this a serious answer? Why wouldn't the remake take precedence over the original? What makes you think it's some separate continuity?

 

[Beelzebufo]

Why would the fact that it's a pokemon egg be a great discovery if people already knew about them. He didn't say anything about the type of pokemon egg, just the fact that it seemed to be a pokemon egg itself was a great discovery

Because they're rare? He's just as excited about the pokedex. That doesn't mean it's the first time a pokedex has ever been invented. Either way, there's no indication that it's a new discovery. In fact we know it's not, because they're in FRLG and RSE.

...Is this a serious answer? Why wouldn't the remake take precedence over the original? What makes you think it's some separate continuity?

Because it took precedence over the original.
They can't both happen at the same time, so they're separate continuities. So yeah, it's a serious answer haha.

 

[Mariolee]

It was confirmed as a remake. That said, I'm sure it'll be equivalent to stuff like the HGSS remake where they update the story and events and add more areas for post game

Where?

Where is X/Y on the current Pokemon canon timeline? Do we even know for sure?

I know gen 3 happens at around the same time as gen 1, could gen 6 take place around that time as well?

X/Y takes place after DPPt I'm pretty sure, but I'll have to check. I would have to guess around the time of Black 2/White 2.

Pokemon XD and Colloseum are compatible with RSEFRLG despite not taking place at the same time. Same for B2W2 and BW. So having it be really compatible with X and Y won't automatically make the new games take place at the same time.

Pokemon XD and Colosseum aren't considered completely canon since they're not mainline Pokemon games I believe.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I did. For something that's supposed to be a huge scientific discovery, he seems pretty non plussed and more interested in you gaining a Pokedex and Oak's approval.

I'd assume he wasn't completely sure it was real at first given how he talked about Mr. Pokemon and he had no time to actually examine it

 

[Nilaul]

No post game confirmed; checked the walk through of ruby and sapphire... :-(

 

[Aaronrules380]

Where?



X/Y takes place after DPPt I'm pretty sure, but I'll have to check. I would have to guess around the time of Black 2/White 2.



Pokemon XD and Colosseum aren't considered completely canon since they're not mainline Pokemon games I believe.

Iwata said so at the investor's meeting today

 

[LX_Theo]

Honestly, I don't think this will be a remake. The trailer just seems like it wants to say that so much without actually saying it.

 

[Hatchtag]

Where?



X/Y takes place after DPPt I'm pretty sure, but I'll have to check. I would have to guess around the time of Black 2/White 2.



Pokemon XD and Colosseum aren't considered completely canon since they're not mainline Pokemon games I believe.

During the fiscal briefing
XY takes place during B2W2
They're not, but B2W2 being compatible with B1W1 illustrates my point better.

 

[Berordn]

Because it took precedence over the original.
They can't both happen at the same time, so they're separate continuities. So yeah, it's a serious answer haha.

I'm clearly misreading this conversation in some way where you're trying to make the case that FRLG aren't canon.

 

[Cybersai]

In the same way that FRLG upspured RBY from being the beginning of the Pokemon canon, so will ORAS do to the RSE portion of the continuity (arguably, Emerald already made Ruby and Sapphire non-canon). The remakes have replaced their predecessors with an updated canon both times they've been done, it's silly to think that they'll make an exception with Ruby and Sapphire.

Kopyii are you bitter about Hoenn being remade?

 

[Beelzebufo]

I'm clearly misreading this conversation in some way where you're trying to make the case that FRLG aren't canon.

I see the problem. You misread my original post. I was saying that the original RBY weren't canon, where there was no steel type.

 

[Toxi]

LOL "Pokemon canon"

I guess that explains why the Normal type gym is shaped like a Clefairy. Gamefreak keeps a loose storyline that doesn't always fit together perfectly. Mega evolutions before X and Y are the least silly thing.

Completely differently? Come on. And who's to say that's not true? We know nothing about the remakes other than they are on the 3DS.

Groudon's teeth and spikes are black. Its tail plow is splayed outward. Its veins are wider and are glowing bright yellow with a lava texture. Its arms have a new pattern resembling an omega symbol instead of a circle. Its belly has stripes. Its tail's ventral side has lines now.

You're right that we know nothing about the remakes other than these covers, but when everything we know indicates Groudon looks the same in the X and Y engine and yet it looks completely different on the cover of the new game (And yes, having giant yellow lava veins does make it look completely different), yeah, I'm gonna assume something's up.

 

[Berordn]

I see the problem. You misread my original post. I was saying that the original RBY weren't canon.

That'll do 'er.

 

[harmonize]

Kopyii are you bitter about Hoenn being remade?

How in the world did you derive that from what I said?

 

[Mariolee]

In the same way that FRLG upspured RBY from being the beginning of the Pokemon canon, so will ORAS do to the RSE portion of the continuity (arguably, Emerald already made Ruby and Sapphire non-canon). The remakes have replaced their predecessors with an updated canon both times they've been done, it's silly to think that they'll make an exception with Ruby and Sapphire.

RBY and GSC are part of the old timeline though, and are now noncanon and have been since the beginning of the third generation. RSE is part of the established timeline that Nintendo has kept up with all the way up to X/Y, and assuming that ORAS will be part of the same timeline as X/Y (which there is no reason to believe this won't be the case), then that would cause a lot of problems.

It's like...

It's like the Batman movies. The old Burton/Schumacher universe is like RBY and GSC, while Batman Begins was FRLG/RSE and the Nolan universe is like the current Pokemon timeline. Remaking RSE and replacing that in the timeline is like if they remade Batman Begins completely and then said that The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises was still a part of this new timeline.

It's a clusterfuck.

 

[Cybersai]

How in the world did you derive that from what I said?

Because I read your posts on reddit. You hold a grudge against Hoenn for two reasons:

- You didn't like the games

- Misty was replaced in the anime when Hoenn began

Its been 12 years Kopyii, I think you can let it go.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Groudon's teeth and spikes are black. Its tail plow is splayed outward. Its veins are wider and are glowing bright yellow with a lava texture. Its arms have a new pattern resembling an omega symbol instead of a circle. Its belly has stripes. Its tail's ventral side has lines now.

Feels like shadow and angle really.

 

[Aaronrules380]

RBY and GSC are part of the old timeline though, and are now noncanon and have been since the beginning of the third generation. RSE is part of the established timeline that Nintendo has kept up with all the way up to X/Y, and assuming that ORAS will be part of the same timeline as X/Y (which there is no reason to believe this won't be the case), then that would cause a lot of problems.

It's like...

It's like the Batman movies. The old Burton/Schumacher universe is like RBY and GSC, while Batman Begins was FRLG/RSE and the Nolan universe is like the current Pokemon timeline. Remaking RSE and replacing that in the timeline is like if they remade Batman Begins completely and then said that The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises was still a part of this new timeline.

It's a clusterfuck.

I really think you guys are overthinking this issue. I don't think Gamefreak cares at all about canon. It's easy enough to just say any remake overwrites the original anyways

 

[Aaronrules380]

Feels like shadow and angle really.

Shadow's don't change the color that dramatically. Especially since we can see the claws haven't changed color and what shadows look like on that

 

[Mariolee]

Iwata said so at the investor's meeting today

Huh. What was his exact quote?

During the fiscal briefing
XY takes place during B2W2
They're not, but B2W2 being compatible with B1W1 illustrates my point better.

Sure. I guess we'll have to know more about the game's plot before speculating further.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

No post game confirmed; checked the walk through of ruby and sapphire... :-(

Emerald had a great postgame and HG/SS took elements from Crystal and expanded in a lot of areas. FR/LG also had seven new islands with stuff to do and its own postgame sidequest. I imagine Oras will do something similar.

 

[Mariolee]

I really think you guys are overthinking this issue. I don't think Gamefreak cares at all about canon. It's easy enough to just say any remake overwrites the original anyways

God forbid we discuss issues on a message board.

Spoiler

I admit that I care for this way too much than is expected.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Huh. What was his exact quote?



Sure. I guess we'll have to know more about the game's plot before speculating further.

Obviously translated, but from Nintendo's page retelling the presentation in English

The announcement was made only yesterday, so we were unable to include them in the supplementary document for this financial briefing, but the latest installments from the Pokémon franchise, “Pokémon Omega Ruby” and “Pokémon Alpha Sapphire” will be released globally for Nintendo 3DS in November this year. They are full-remakes of the Game Boy Advance “Pokémon Ruby” and “Pokémon Sapphire” games, which sold more than 5.44 million units in Japan and more than 16.22 million units worldwide.

 

[TheGreatLugia]

Huh. What was his exact quote?

...“Pokémon Omega Ruby” and “Pokémon Alpha Sapphire” will be released globally for Nintendo 3DS in November this year. They are full-remakes of the Game Boy Advance “Pokémon Ruby” and “Pokémon Sapphire” games...

 

[Aaronrules380]

God forbid we discuss issues on a message board.

Spoiler

I admit that I care for this way too much than is expected.

Nothing wrong with discussing it, I just feel like people are acting like it's some iron clad rule that gamefreak must abide by and would never break. Which is just silly. It's fine to state continuity issues would exist, and another to use that as an explanation for why mega evos can't be in the game

 

[wmlk]

I dunno how a connection was made between Batman movies and Pokémon games. It does not make any sense.

Batman movies are dependent on the director and the cast.

Pokémon games have had the SAME DIRECTOR for over a decade now, and he was one of the main guys upon conception. He even directed RSE as his first mainline Pokémon games.

The remakes definitely do replace the old versions, and fleshes things out. That's why we see Red looking more like his FRLG-self ever since FRLG came out. That's how we know Silver is Giovanni's son, and Ariana presumably being the mother. The remakes are canon, period.

 

[fredrancour]

Pokemon timeline discussions are happening. We are through the looking-glass here.

 

[Subtervotion]

You think they illustrated Groudon and Kyogre completely differently to make the covers look "dynamic"? After Lugia and Ho-Oh looked pretty much the same in Heartgold and Soulsilver?

They're at least different forms. Whether they're mega evolutions or not is a different story. They are not normal Groudon and Kyogre.

They added 100 base points to Mewtwo. I think adding 100 to Groudon and Kyogre isn't that much of a stretch (Although Mega Kyogre is the dumbest thing ever).

I kind of figured they gave Mewtwo a mega so he could literally be 'the most powerful pokemon', as he's often considered by fans and sometimes referred to in canon. Having Kyogre and Groudon at 770 and possibly Rayquaza at 780 feels weird. This is all subjective of course. I could see them doing it though.

 

[CMojicaAce]

Truthfully, I don't think these are Mega Evolutions. I think that Groudon and Kyogre are imbedded with the blue orb and red orb, respectively.

This is how Pikachu looked like in the anime when it was possessed by the blue orb:

It has lines across its entire body and glowing eyes like Groudon and Kyogre on the box art. I think that the story of these remakes will be different and perhaps Groudon and Kyogre (depending on the version) will get possessed by the respective orb.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Are you guys seriously flipping out over how the possible inclusion of mega's/trading with XY ruins the canon of a game where story is loose at best?
SMH.

 

[Mariolee]

Obviously translated, but from Nintendo's page retelling the presentation in English

...“Pokémon Omega Ruby” and “Pokémon Alpha Sapphire” will be released globally for Nintendo 3DS in November this year. They are full-remakes of the Game Boy Advance “Pokémon Ruby” and “Pokémon Sapphire” games...

Hmm. Curious.
I'll have to see it for myself. I mean, idk, seems like a waste to throw away parts of a perfectly well established timeline.

Nothing wrong with discussing it, I just feel like people are acting like it's some iron clad rule that gamefreak must abide by and would never break. Which is just silly. It's fine to state continuity issues would exist, and another to use that as an explanation for why mega evos can't be in the game

Oh, I don't really care about that lol I love interconnecting stories in video games. That's why Kingdom Hearts is my drug.

 

[Sciz]

I don't know, I never got that impression from his dialogue. It just seems like all they think is that it's a weird ass egg, that ended up hatching into a weird ass rare Pokemon in Togepi

Daycare man dialogue:

"I'm the DAY-CARE MAN. Do you know about EGGS? I was raising POKéMON with my wife, you see. We were shocked to find an EGG! How incredible is that!"

"Ah, it's you! We were raising your POKéMON, and my goodness, were we surprised! Your POKéMON had an egg! We don't know how it got there, but your POKéMON had it. You want it?"

Eggs were a new thing.

 

[Toxi]

Feels like shadow and angle really.

Can you please explain how shadow and angle can change circles into omega symbols or add tiger stripes to the belly?

Seriously, these are different designs. Either you assume it's a redesign, which doesn't match either Gamefreak's track record or how the XY models look, or you can assume it's a different form, which makes more sense for a cover legendary that they might want to add pizazz to.

Truthfully, I don't think these are Mega Evolutions. I think that Groudon and Kyogre are imbedded with the blue orb and red orb, respectively.

This is how Pikachu looked like in the anime when it was possessed by the blue orb:

It has lines across its entire body and glowing eyes like Groudon and Kyogre on the box art. I think that the story of these remakes will be different and perhaps Groudon and Kyogre (depending on the version) will get possessed by the respective orb.

That would make sense with how connected Groudon and Kyogre are to the red and blue orb, but I don't think it's the case. Groudon and Kyogre normally glow blue and red respectively. You can see it very clearly in the Ruby and Sapphire title screens. Why would implanting the blue orb and red orb make them glow yellow instead?

You might be onto something though. Maybe someone destroyed the blue orb/red orb, and the loss of the original color is a symptom of that. Also, Rayquaza actually does glow yellow, so maybe the changes to Groudon and Kyogre have something to do with the third trio member.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Daycare man dialogue:

"I'm the DAY-CARE MAN. Do you know about EGGS? I was raising POKéMON with my wife, you see. We were shocked to find an EGG! How incredible is that!"

"Ah, it's you! We were raising your POKéMON, and my goodness, were we surprised! Your POKéMON had an egg! We don't know how it got there, but your POKéMON had it. You want it?"

Eggs were a new thing.

While I agree that eggs were new at the time, the daycare STILL says that. That's a result of Pokemon being the absolute masters of invisible ninja sex and stealth pregnancy, not people having no idea what eggs are to begin with.

 

[Golden Slumbers]

*dies*