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[charlequin]

I raided vanilla on WoW, even have the epic hunter quest bow (for those of you that remember that quest, it took some serious skill)

Oh my god that thing was ridiculous. I'm not sure there was anything else comparable in the game at the time; you needed to be able to solo powerful elites without any help whatsoever.

I thought when people insulted "girl gamers" they meant the #girlgamer instagram type rather than "girl who said something on the microphone, time to insult!!!"

Even that's bad though. I mean, would you be cool if someone said "NeoGAF posters are all mentally deficient whiners who would commit suicide over Media Create numbers" if they clarified later "oh I just mean all the stereotypical ones!" Using a group name as a universal stand-in for an unflattering stereotype about members of that group is super-harsh.

 

[ponpo]

Even that's bad though. I mean, would you be cool if someone said "NeoGAF posters are all mentally deficient whiners who would commit suicide over Media Create numbers" if they clarified later "oh I just mean all the stereotypical ones!" Using a group name as a universal stand-in for an unflattering stereotype about members of that group is super-harsh.

No no, not saying that's 'better' or anything, I just thought that's what the vitriol was usually directed at rather than someone you're playing with who happens to be a girl.

 

[charlequin]

No no, not saying that's 'better' or anything, I just thought that's what the vitriol was usually directed at rather than someone you're playing with who happens to be a girl.

The bigotry of online shitheads knows no bounds.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Even that's bad though. I mean, would you be cool if someone said "NeoGAF posters are all mentally deficient whiners who would commit suicide over Media Create numbers" if they clarified later "oh I just mean all the stereotypical ones!" Using a group name as a universal stand-in for an unflattering stereotype about members of that group is super-harsh.

Eh, I get what you're saying, but at the same time, you kinda know what they mean.

 

[suzu]

It shouldn't matter if people want to label themselves as girl/boy gamer or whatever. To say that most of them are doing it to draw attention to themselves is pretty ridiculous.

I've been heavily interested in games since I was five. I've been gaming my entire life (I'm 32 now). I played MUDs, (even was a god in one at one point), MMOs, RPGs, FPS, what have you.

And yes, it gets really, really fucking annoying when one the one side you get 'stop talking about/mentioning you're a girl, you're such an attention whore' and on the other 'girls only play mobile games'.

I raided vanilla on WoW, even have the epic hunter quest bow (for those of you that remember that quest, it took some serious skill) ran raiding guilds and still run a guild to this day, yet I still get comments about teaching me how to play or offering to hold my hand. I stay out of vents that aren't my own because I've wiped pick up raids just by speaking.

And yeah, I get the 'bad mom' or 'bad wife' comments too, even though my husband plays more than I do and he never gets accused of being a bad father.

Granted, in wow at least, it's getting better. In the past couple of years, it's honestly rare for anyone to freak out that I'm a woman aside from the few mentions above. Maybe it's just my server.

Everywhere else online is still pretty bad in the 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' way. No one wants to believe that women like to play to games. When confronted with it via 'girl gamer' or complaints of sexism or the like, it becomes 'attention whore!' or 'fake gamer girl' or 'stop being so sensitive'.

It really seems like everyone is fine if women play games, if only they never ever talk about it or complain or mention they are female.

All the bolded.

I rarely mention my gender or voice chat while gaming because I don't want to deal with that fake gamer (if you're bad) or ugly nerd (if you're good) and even worse bullshit.

 

[PetrCobra]

Once in a party on XBL, a guy found out I was an adult woman, and ripped into me for 'not looking after my children and making dinner for the family'. That has been my most disappointing experience to date as a female gamer.

XBL sounds like such a lovely environment every time someone mentions it somewhere.

Why did this in particular disappoint you though? Was there something more to it than the usual case of having a random asshole using personal information to talk rubbish? Do you generally feel more comfortable if the strangers you're playing with don't know you're a woman, and this somehow shattered an unconscious hope that maybe it's actually not a big deal? Something else entirely?

 

[Eusis]

The bigotry of online shitheads knows no bounds.

I wonder whether it's just the online factor, or if the internet allows you to randomly meet more people at once and thus the assholes stand out more. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of people that would rail against a straw man/woman would turn friendly or at least polite with an actual woman, gay man, whatever, but you get a few who are complete scum and will be miserable assholes anyway. And the internet does the equivalent of compressing more people together at a time so you're more likely to stumble on and actually interact with one of them.

 

[DrkSage]

This image came to mind when I read the title.

On topic:

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/

 

[Sophia]

I wonder whether it's just the online factor, or if the internet allows you to randomly meet more people at once and thus the assholes stand out more. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of people that would rail against a straw man/woman would turn friendly or at least polite with an actual woman, gay man, whatever, but you get a few who are complete scum and will be miserable assholes anyway.

Personal experiences and anecdotal evidence time, but I definitely think there's a factor of anonymity behind it. I noticed playing a lot of MMORPGS that people become more pleasant (or tolerant) when you get them on voice chat. Particularly in a group or guild setting where it's clear such negative behavior won't be tolerated. It removes a barrier they'd otherwise use to protect themselves or justify their actions.

This image came to mind when I read the title.
http://i.imgur.com/3u1prW3.jpg[ /img]

On topic:

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I find both of the extremes this image presents rather unsettling. Also, what's wrong with merely liking a specific genre or set of games? Would you find it equally as cringe worthy if it were a male saying that?

 

[shouamabane]

"gamer" is the worst.

 

[Eusis]

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/

It wouldn't be very different with men though. You find the average guy who plays games and they're probably not going to answer that they play Braid or Disgaea, they'd probably say they play CoD, Halo, Madden, whatever.

Personal experiences and anecdotal evidence time, but I definitely think there's a factor of anonymity behind it. I noticed playing a lot of MMORPGS that people become more pleasant (or tolerant) when you get them on voice chat. Particularly in a group or guild setting where it's clear such negative behavior won't be tolerated. It removes a barrier they'd otherwise use to protect themselves or justify their actions.

True, the more layers you remove the less likely people are going to be assholes. Then when it comes down to face-to-face only a few will still be willing to pull that.

 

[MrBadger]

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/

I don't see anything wrong. I'm sure you'll find a lot of guys who call themselves gamers and only play CoD and Halo. I mean, they're pretty popular games.

 

[Wazzy]

This image came to mind when I read the title.

On topic:

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/

That image is nonsense.

Why do people get to dictate what makes a girl a real gamer or not? Why can't someone who really likes CoD be classified as a gamer?

 

[rjinaz]

On topic:

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/

But then of course it's also possible she's a gamer girl that just really likes those specific games. I think the best thing to do is not make assumptions about anybody online altogether.

 

[UnWeave]

I've been heavily interested in games since I was five. I've been gaming my entire life (I'm 32 now). I played MUDs, (even was a god in one at one point), MMOs, RPGs, FPS, what have you.

And yes, it gets really, really fucking annoying when one the one side you get 'stop talking about/mentioning you're a girl, you're such an attention whore' and on the other 'girls only play mobile games'.

I raided vanilla on WoW, even have the epic hunter quest bow (for those of you that remember that quest, it took some serious skill) ran raiding guilds and still run a guild to this day, yet I still get comments about teaching me how to play or offering to hold my hand. I stay out of vents that aren't my own because I've wiped pick up raids just by speaking.

And yeah, I get the 'bad mom' or 'bad wife' comments too, even though my husband plays more than I do and he never gets accused of being a bad father.

Granted, in wow at least, it's getting better. In the past couple of years, it's honestly rare for anyone to freak out that I'm a woman aside from the few mentions above. Maybe it's just my server.

Everywhere else online is still pretty bad in the 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' way. No one wants to believe that women like to play to games. When confronted with it via 'girl gamer' or complaints of sexism or the like, it becomes 'attention whore!' or 'fake gamer girl' or 'stop being so sensitive'.

It really seems like everyone is fine if women play games, if only they never ever talk about it or complain or mention they are female.

This. The immediate assumption that someone openly identifying as a 'girl gamer' is just attention seeking is at best sexist, or potentially misogynistic depending on your definition.

I think this extends far wider than just the use of the term 'girl gamer', but let's suppose you have actually witnessed a whole lot of attention-seeking behaviour from 'girl gamer's; I don't see anyone complaining about those people - probably largely male, given the gaming gender split - who are giving them all this attention. Presumably they are doing it because they also want to receive attention. And, uh, that's just fine, is it? This doesn't seem that far away from the attitude that sleeping around is to be frowned upon only when done by women; I personally feel that's more harmful, though what's quoted above isn't exactly a basket of roses.

Edit: My favourite webcomic on the issue in general is Cyanide and Hapiness 3401. Quite possibly already posted.

 

[charlequin]

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/

You find it unsettling when the answer a woman gives is exactly the same as the answer 80+% of men would give to the same question?

 

[Madness]

This part is definitely true. Console FPS voicechat is a total shithole

It didn't use to be like that. Something changed around 08 for XBL especially, as console gaming got more popular and online multiplayer became mainstream and accessible for a wide group of people.

I still have friends I made from the Halo 2 days on my friends list. The pure venom and trolling and racist/sexist shit I just don't even remember at all. Games like Gears of War, I remember people would message each other job well done after matches, you'd add people you met and play with them, you'd talk about the match, strategies and stories etc. Halo 3 was similar at launch as well. Just playing and chatting for days and days having a good time.

By MW2 and Halo:Reach you had like 11 year old UK kids call you the N-word at night. It's so bad that I literally have my settings set to mute all for every game for like the past 5 years of Xbox Live. I'll either do party chat with friends/family. Otherwise I just don't respond. If you don't nip that shit in the bud, it just grows. Trash talking is one thing, but some people get ridiculous with their insults.

 

[Devolution]

It didn't use to be like that. Something changed around 08 for XBL especially, as console gaming got more popular and online multiplayer became mainstream and accessible for a wide group of people.

I still have friends I made from the Halo 2 days on my friends list. The pure venom and trolling and racist/sexist shit I just don't even remember at all. Games like Gears of War, I remember people would message each other job well done after matches, you'd add people you met and play with them, you'd talk about the match, strategies and stories etc. Halo 3 was similar at launch as well. Just playing and chatting for days and days having a good time.

By MW2 and Halo:Reach you had like 11 year old UK kids call you the N-word at night. It's so bad that I literally have my settings set to mute all for every game for like the past 5 years of Xbox Live. I'll either do party chat with friends/family. Otherwise I just don't respond. If you don't nip that shit in the bud, it just grows. Trash talking is one thing, but some people get ridiculous with their insults.

Nah Halo 2 was just as bad. The worst sexism I heard was rarely from "children" either.

 

[KePoW]

On topic:

Yea, I find it really cringe worthy whenever I see that or hear a girl saying she plays video games and when you ask what she plays she only responds with CoD and Halo :/

What in the world is wrong with that?? I don't understand

 

[DrkSage]

Guys guys... I don't find it cringe worthy she likes a certain specific genre, or that she only plays halo and cod what I find kinda cringe worthy is that when you ask what halo does she plays she just says "you know halo" or "you know that call of duty game" in other words when they don't know which game they're playing.

 

[Sophia]

Guys guys... I don't find it cringe worthy she likes a certain specific genre, or that she only plays halo and cod what I find kinda cringe worthy is that when you ask what halo does she plays she just says "you know halo" or "you know that call of duty game" in other words when they don't know which game they're playing.

.... and again, how exactly is that any indication that they don't know which game they're playing?

 

[Wazzy]

It didn't use to be like that. Something changed around 08 for XBL especially, as console gaming got more popular and online multiplayer became mainstream and accessible for a wide group of people.

I still have friends I made from the Halo 2 days on my friends list. The pure venom and trolling and racist/sexist shit I just don't even remember at all. Games like Gears of War, I remember people would message each other job well done after matches, you'd add people you met and play with them, you'd talk about the match, strategies and stories etc. Halo 3 was similar at launch as well. Just playing and chatting for days and days having a good time.

By MW2 and Halo:Reach you had like 11 year old UK kids call you the N-word at night. It's so bad that I literally have my settings set to mute all for every game for like the past 5 years of Xbox Live. I'll either do party chat with friends/family. Otherwise I just don't respond. If you don't nip that shit in the bud, it just grows. Trash talking is one thing, but some people get ridiculous with their insults.

I was hearing racist, sexist and homophobic insults in Halo 3 all the time. There was probably more before but my first experiences with it were WoW and Halo 3. WoW was a lot better, though.

 

[H.Protagonist]

You find it unsettling when the answer a woman gives is exactly the same as the answer 80+% of men would give to the same question?

Make-up, a titillating outfit AND liking mainstream games? What a calculating little minx.

 

[Karkador]

So when the stat is that nearly half of girls play games, it's "inflated" because it's counting mobile games and facebook games. But when girls play something that isn't a mobile game or a facebook game, it's disqualified because it's too mainstream or something.

 

[Kimaka]

It doesn't bother me, its just a moniker. I actually think its kind of nice to see more and more gamers who aren't afraid of pointing out that they are female. There may be some good that comes from revealing it but its going to come with a lot of bullshit. There are still some online communities and games where I won't correct someone calling me a guy. Its just easier. When I say something wrong about games or play poorly, I won't be used as an example of my entire gender being wrong or bad at games.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Personal experiences and anecdotal evidence time, but I definitely think there's a factor of anonymity behind it. I noticed playing a lot of MMORPGS that people become more pleasant (or tolerant) when you get them on voice chat. Particularly in a group or guild setting where it's clear such negative behavior won't be tolerated. It removes a barrier they'd otherwise use to protect themselves or justify their actions.

Agreed. As I mentioned earlier, I think the console environment gives people that sense of anonymity, like a gaming version of 4chan. They log on to a random CoD server, spout their hateful nonsense, and next time they'll be somewhere else. And Sony/MS just don't seem to care enough to constantly monitor for abuse. On PC, more self-policing communities tend to form because of clans and gamer-run servers.

 

[Yopis]

It didn't use to be like that. Something changed around 08 for XBL especially, as console gaming got more popular and online multiplayer became mainstream and accessible for a wide group of people.

I still have friends I made from the Halo 2 days on my friends list. The pure venom and trolling and racist/sexist shit I just don't even remember at all. Games like Gears of War, I remember people would message each other job well done after matches, you'd add people you met and play with them, you'd talk about the match, strategies and stories etc. Halo 3 was similar at launch as well. Just playing and chatting for days and days having a good time.

By MW2 and Halo:Reach you had like 11 year old UK kids call you the N-word at night. It's so bad that I literally have my settings set to mute all for every game for like the past 5 years of Xbox Live. I'll either do party chat with friends/family. Otherwise I just don't respond. If you don't nip that shit in the bud, it just grows. Trash talking is one thing, but some people get ridiculous with their insults.

Remember when Socom 1 went online. Had a blast people would ask how the weather was and your location. Really civil and teamwork was a blast. Forward to Socom 2 and lobbies were full of insults and racism.

Played SWG back around that time and never really ran into any of that stuff.

 

[MrBadger]

Guys guys... I don't find it cringe worthy she likes a certain specific genre, or that she only plays halo and cod what I find kinda cringe worthy is that when you ask what halo does she plays she just says "you know halo" or "you know that call of duty game" in other words when they don't know which game they're playing.

I'm not sure that this situation happens very often. I'm also not sure how pretending to be into the most popular games to appear cool to your friends is a gender exclusive thing.

 

[Devolution]

The real irony is if it wasn't treated with such novelty you wouldn't have those who capitalize on it.

 

[Kalnos]

Rarely had a problem with WoW.

Xbox Live and FPSes, whole other can of worms.

It's definitely a different variety. My girlfriend got some pretty cringey in-game mail letters in WoW.

 

[Sadetar]

It shouldn't matter if people want to label themselves as girl/boy gamer or whatever. To say that most of them are doing it to draw attention to themselves is pretty ridiculous.

All the bolded.

I rarely mention my gender or voice chat while gaming because I don't want to deal with that fake gamer (if you're bad) or ugly nerd (if you're good) and even worse bullshit.

I agree with you there. I rarely talk on voice chat. If I talk, I am in a (XBL) party with people I know. Even then I sometimes get some shit talk, if some of my friend's friend joins in. Those endless "make me a sandwich" jokes are always oh so funny.

According to rumours I can also sound like a 9-year-old little boy. I find that hilarious though so I don't even bother to correct them.

What comes to the term, I wouldn't want to be labelled as a "girl gamer", but if someone prefers to be called like that, I think it is totally their own business.

 

[boeso]

Or maybe you're just making assumptions about the women who say that?

Y'all need to back off a bit. We all know what DrkSage is on about. Female gamers are fucking poorly represented and the mainstream view shows that. The mainstream belief definitely needs changing through awareness.

You're also making it pretty hard to discuss the topic, its like treading on egg shells in here...

 

[KePoW]

Yep. Mainstream or any fairly popular game will be disqualified.

I've been 'quizzed' many times on my gaming (or 'geek' cred) because of that mindset.

CoD or Halo, etc definitely count in my book. I think it's cool if a female plays those games.

 

[botty]

What I found most interesting about the responses in this thread was how judgmental people were towards the so-called "attention seeking" girls, but not the guys who give them said attention. I guess that's just an elbow shove of patriarchy.

Anyhoo, I don't see a probably with any label someone designates for themselves as long as it isn't rude, offensive, or intended to mislead for harmful purposes.

My experiences with girls that play games has been as mixed as my experience with guys that play games. Some are intense, while others are calm; some are great at games, while others aren't. I do wish there were more girls that played games, though because whenever I tune into video game tournaments, I always get excited when girls clock guys in games. Sort of like how I will be all jittery if Hillary wins.

 

[Giolon]

You find it unsettling when the answer a woman gives is exactly the same as the answer 80+% of men would give to the same question?

I certainly find it disappointing no matter who gives that kind of answer. It means I have little in common in terms of gaming taste w/ that person. It's no different than if someone told me the only TV they watch is CSI and Fox News.

I mentioned this in another thread along a similar tangent, but when I was growing up in the 90s, there were at least as many girl friends that I had that played video games as boys (and honestly, I didn't know many kids who played video games period. It wasn't really a popular thing, and the cool kids definitely weren't into it.) I even considered a girl one of my best gaming friends at least through my junior high days. I'm not sure when the perception that "games are for boys!" took hold.

When I see a gaming stream of a girl or woman in a prominently cleavage baring outfit with a camera pointed right at her chest, I do question, "What's the motive of wearing that?" If it didn't work though, they wouldn't do it. It really says just as much about the audience members as the streamer.

I don't really get the "attention whore" comments in those circumstances though - everyone who's streaming is looking for some sort of attention, otherwise why are you streaming? If someone has something to use to your advantage, they're going to use it. It seems like Lowest Common Denominator pandering to me though. Were there a big audience to be gained by guys playing shirtless to show off their abs or whatever, I'd feel like I'd feel the same way about it.

I like to see people with more to offer - whether a funny commentary, an exceptional level of skill, or simply insightful observations and a unique way of playing a game. I discovered Kat's Dark Souls stream through GAF recently and I'm hooked!

I appreciate the points that some of the women have made about jokes and comments made about women not existing on the Internet. It has made me try to go back and think how do I really feel about similar comments made about the presence or lack thereof of black people in given situations and environments. Normally I'd say, it has never really bothered me, but now I'm thinking about and whether or not that's really true...I honestly can't say I know one way or the other.

 

[bawk]

dp

 

[bawk]

Also applicable to more than a few women I know lol:

.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

It gets me all hot and flustered.
I guess I'm a bit of a gamephile.

Spoiler

No.

 

[PetrCobra]

I think the gaming media needs more quality and certainly much more diversity than it has now.
If the movie industry was utterly dominated by, let's say B-tier war films (trying to imagine what genre has a majority of male viewers, for the sake of analogy), I think there would be similar mindset of "girls do not watch movies - at least not the real ones" like the one we have in videogames.
My GF plays Wii Fit with me sometimes, she loves Wii Bowling, Picross, Zuma and other games, but she has no interest in most of the games I play. They just are not for her. When she asks me to recommend her something to play, I usually think about the easily accessible ones and not games that require dedication - because I haven't seen that work. Maybe there are "hardcore" games that would interest her, but they are so low profile that she never got the opportunity to learn about them and try them out.
Of course, the analogy with movies was just illustrative, there are many reasons why they don't have this problem (one of them being that "going to the movies" was a popular scenario for a date since the early days of cinema). My point is that videogames are in a different situation and the diversity needs to be created artificially. When that happens, we won't have any more "girl gamers" just like we don't have any "girl movie goers".

 

[Blackthorn]

Guys guys... I don't find it cringe worthy she likes a certain specific genre, or that she only plays halo and cod what I find kinda cringe worthy is that when you ask what halo does she plays she just says "you know halo" or "you know that call of duty game" in other words when they don't know which game they're playing.

I'm gonna guess this either never happened to you or it happened exactly one time.

 

[Devolution]

Also applicable to more than a few women I know lol:

.

I hate this shit.

Why is there some kind of measuring stick where girls/women have to be hardcore or they're just attention whoring jezebels who don't know CoD from Halo from a hole in the ground.

 

[Wazzy]

Also applicable to more than a few women I know lol:

.

Hmmm.

What girl honestly acts that way in the first one? and the image is gross just for the fact it slut shames.

 

[Applecot]

They could be man, woman, child, alien, reptile; I don't care as long as I get the person who just shot me from behind.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Gaming has to be the only medium where a woman being a frequent/heavy consumer is still considered so unusual. There's nothing weird about a woman being a film or TV buff, or heavily into music or literature. Even comic books (traditionally very male focused) wouldn't be so unusual. Gaming still has all of these odd divisions though. Casual vs. Core. "Girl Gamers." Nerds decrying "dudebros," not realizing that dudebros took over the market back in the 90s with the PS1. I suppose any medium will have the "enlightened ones" versus "unwashed ignorant masses" conflict, but it's just so unusually pronounced in gaming.

 

[Oblivion]

I've been 'quizzed' many times on my gaming (or 'geek' cred) because of that mindset.

But...you passed, right?

 

[Eusis]

At least the other one's ostensibly about presentation: the "gamer gurl" and "girl who plays video games" could be equally serious about games, just that they have different personalities.

This new one's just crass.

 

[Karkador]

That comic is plainly insulting to everyone, what a stupid thing to say

 

[Wazzy]

Y'all need to back off a bit. We all know what DrkSage is on about. Female gamers are fucking poorly represented and the mainstream view shows that. The mainstream belief definitely needs changing through awareness.

You're also making it pretty hard to discuss the topic, its like treading on egg shells in here...

If we want a proper discussion maybe it's best not to throw out generalizations and images that contribute to them?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I hate this shit.

Why is there some kind of measuring stick where girls/women have to be hardcore or they're just attention whoring jezebels who don't know CoD from Halo from a hole in the ground.

To be fair, how can be certain of them knowing the difference between CoD and Halo?
I suggest we set up an independent panel comprised of men (and women) to assess the gaming credentials of all females claiming to play games.

 

[goldenpp72]

Like any term it can be taken in many directions. It doesn't usually bother me unless the girl in question is only using it as a ploy to seek attention from desperate losers, but even then I would detest those giving the attention more than the one getting it, so whatever.

My girlfriend plays a lot of videogames but doesn't seem to label herself as a gamer or girl gamer, and I think I prefer that really, she likes what she likes.