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[charlequin]

I think this about both genders.

If it's about both genders, why are there all these endless comics, memes, and threads that only talk about it as the exclusive purview of women?

I'll give you a concrete example. My mother really enjoys classic Looney Toons and Disney animated films. But she hates everything else that's animated, particularly if it involves animated people. She won't even give it a chance to see if it actually contains content (characters or story) that she would like - she won't even get past the fact that it's animated and not live action.

This is not even kind of a good analogy. How is someone who likes one thing but loathes everything else that resembles it a good stand-in for someone who likes one thing and either hasn't investigated other similar things, or likes them just fine but not enough to reduce the time they put into their one obsession?

Considering that about half the posters on the first three or four pages of this thread were pretty much immediately banned after commenting, it's probably best to steer clear of this one.

Just FYI, this routine is way more likely to get someone banned than participating respectfully in the conversation.

 

[not psycho]

Anyone else think TotalBiscuit is affecting his accent to get views? He lives in the US but advertises himself as a "Brit", right? "Brit gamers".

There's nothing wrong with "girl gamer" or "gamer girl" though, if anybody wants to use those. Just like there is nothing wrong with "blue eyed gamer" or "uncomfortably good-looking and brilliant gamer". It might be that some people use "girl gamer" to provide a sense of ownership over a hobby that sometimes seems to want to exclude them, but that certainly wouldn't be a factor that made it wrong somehow.

 

[Oblivion]

I'm going to assume this is a joke post.
You want me to think this is a joke post.

Okay....how about this? If there's a new game coming out, you have to display this level of excitement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71U


edit: Look, all I'm saying is that we need some criteria that's a bit more substantive than someone who just likes playing games occasionally.

Is that in reference to the gamer part or the ugly part? Cause if it's the latter, riddle me this. Why do certain youtube channels, such as this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj_Kz0xPUcE

become very popular? Simple. Because most gamer girls do not look like that.

 

[Tigress]

What I think those comics are saying - in a deliberately exaggerated fashion - is that for the type of "girl gamers" they're depicting, their supposed interest in videogames is just another fashion accessory, like sexy outfits or makeup.

You know, I don't get this idea that people think that some girl is going to pretend to like games to get attention. I won't deny some girls like the attention and learn that they can use the fact that they are a girl and that they play games to get attention. But that doesn't mean they are faking liking games. I think it's a strange fantasy some guys have that some how girls all the sudden fake liking games to get guys' attention. It's also a little arrogant on a guy's part to assume that some girl is faking liking games to get that guy's attention.

 

[Karkador]

edit: Look, all I'm saying is that we need some criteria that's a bit more substantive than someone who just likes playing games occasionally.

W H O G I V E S A S H I T

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

If it's about both genders, why are there all these endless comics, memes, and threads that only talk about it as the exclusive purview of women?

I don't know. It maybe an issue that is visible because gaming had for a long time been seen as a male dominant thing. I would bet many males still seem to think that way which is a shame. That's why I personally think it sucks that there are a minority of females who do this kind of thing and paint this picture of "OMG It's a girl playing video games!" still to this day when females have been playing along side males for a very long time.

 

[Wazzy]

Okay....how about this? If there's a new game coming out, you have to display this level of excitement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71U


edit: Look, all I'm saying is that we need some criteria that's a bit more substantive than someone who just likes playing games occasionally.



Is that in reference to the gamer part or the ugly part? Cause if it's the latter, riddle me this. Why do certain youtube channels, such as this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj_Kz0xPUcE

become very popular? Simple. Because most gamer girls do not look like that.

It was your entire post.

Are you really trying to argue that because gamers don't look like her that must mean they're ugly?

Like, what?

 

[Paracelsus]

I'm going to need you to explain this one because I'm not following.

Since you're allowing the term to be used very loosely, that means anybody with a journalism major can reach a gaming journalist spot, become an editor of some sort and tell you what games are good and what games are not. At that point can I question his credentials? I don't think so.

 

[Eusis]

Okay....how about this? If there's a new game coming out, you have to display this level of excitement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71U


edit: Look, all I'm saying is that we need some criteria that's a bit more substantive than someone who just likes playing games occasionally.

I had considered bringing up the angle that it's probably worth trying to imagine being the other sex when it comes to this sort of treatment and try to see how you'd feel about being treated that way.

But this post comes off as trying to do that ANYWAY to EVERYONE. So yeah, fuck this arbitrary bullshit.

EDIT: Especially as it's trying to treat "are you or are you not a gamer" as something binary. Seriously now.

 

[Toxi]

Okay....how about this? If there's a new game coming out, you have to display this level of excitement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71U

From now on, this will be known as the "Twilight Princess metric". If you react to a new game without equalling or exceeding that level of joy, you are no longer a gamer, but instead a fake gamer. Shame on you for fraudulently assuming the identity of the truly excited.

I hope you're really fucking excited about Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire.

EDIT: And banned, so no point.

 

[Tellaerin]

You know, I don't get this idea that people think that some girl is going to pretend to like games to get attention. I won't deny some girls like the attention and learn that they can use the fact that they are a girl and that they play games to get attention. But that doesn't mean they are faking liking games. I think it's a strange fantasy some guys have that some how girls all the sudden fake liking games to get guys' attention. It's also a little arrogant on a guy's part to assume that some girl is faking liking games to get that guy's attention.

I think part of it is because a lot of us know "that guy", the one who's not all that interested in a particular thing for its own sake (though he may enjoy it to some degree), but really likes to play up said interest in large part because "chicks dig guys who are into x". It's not that they're necessarily totally insincere, it's that getting with a member of the opposite sex is the most important thing to them, and the activity in question is just part of the image they're cultivating. So if there are guys like this, the thinking goes, then they must have female counterparts, too.

 

[Joseca]

The term 'Gamer' in general just annoys me. You don't see other medium users labeling themselves. What do we call someone who watches movies? Movier?

Even if there is a term for other medium users, what's the point in specifying the gender? They just want to seek attention.

 

[Wazzy]

Even if there is a term for other medium users, what's the point in specifying the gender? They just want to seek attention.

How about the fact female gamers are treated like an anomaly so they want to vocalize that they're normal human beings who happen to also like video games?

 

[pants]

Back in the day, there really were no girls on the Internet. The ones that said they were girls were more often than not men pretending to be girls. They were called Manginas in EverQuest.

I think it's an old school carry over. My first thought is they are a male pretending to be female. My second thought is I don't care if you're a man or a woman so there's no need to tell me.

Come on mate, you were slipped meme level bullshit by trolls about no girls being on the net. From the start it's been a troll card to identify and hassle. No reasonable person says there are no girls on the internet seriously, some people may ironically joke about it but none believe it. The phrase sits nicely in there with tits or gtfo as that would inevitably be the next troll card after no girls on the net.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

TBH it doesn't bother me either way. To each his own. I call myself a completionist, but that's a rather long word so I dunno if I'd go around touting a 'completionist gamer' moniker. But whatever I choose to refer to myself as is my prerogative, just as referring to themselves as girl/gurrl/gerl/etc gamers is their prerogative too.

I don't pick one twitch stream over another because of a name. I pick them because of the content and personalities. If people make me laugh or entertain me with their stream, they get my view/like/subscribe/tweet/hashtag/share/etc/etc/etc.

If they don't entertain me? Well that's what that handy red X is in the corner of my browser, and I move on.

What I'm saying is it doesn't offend me or affect me one way or another what label someone chooses to ascribe to him- or herself. Labels attached to people by OTHERS are far more bothersome, though, and that's where a line might be drawn at some point if people feel like they're being persecuted by being labelled as one thing or another.

As gaming continues to mature as a widely-accepted means of entertainment akin to movies, music, etc, I'm sure labels we and others attach to it will continue to evolve too.

Edit: And wowzers it's like the killing fields in here, so many bans!

 

[Erin S Kittens]

I don't necessarily identify as a "girl gamer", because I don't play online games with social elements, and if we're having an in-person conversation about games, you'd notice that I am both a girl and really passionate about games. We may not play the same games, but I enjoy JRPGs, dungeon crawlers, platformers, life simulators, alchemy games, open-world games, educational games like Art Academy and Style Savvy, Japanese imports like GBA Rhythm Tengoku, adventure games, visual novels, and classic console/PC gaming. I don't feel the need to prove myself, because I'm not the kind of girl that people will cast their doubt on--I've been playing Nintendo and more since 1992, and I'm a butch-ish queer woman who doesn't play the fashion game.

None of this would justify me being called a "gamer" at the exclusion of a girl who spends hours on her presentation and runs a stream for profit. Gamer is a self-imposed identity, and it's no one's place to call that into question. Everyone gets to be themselves the way they want to be, and this wouldn't be such an issue is so many people didn't feel threatened by people who are different from them.

I hope these are short bans. >_>

I perceive GAF's moderation team to be one which takes sexism seriously. It's one of the best things about this forum, and helps me feel a lot more comfortable posting here.

 

[SegaShack]

The thoughts that the term "girl gamer" provokes to me is that it is a girl who plays video games.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

I don't necessarily identify as a "girl gamer", because I don't play online games with social elements, and if we're having an in-person conversation about games, you'd notice that I am both a girl and really passionate about games. We may not play the same games, but I enjoy JRPGs, dungeon crawlers, platformers, life simulators, alchemy games, open-world games, educational games like Art Academy and Style Savvy, Japanese imports like GBA Rhythm Tengoku, adventure games, visual novels, and classic console/PC gaming. I don't feel the need to prove myself, because I'm not the kind of girl that people will cast their doubt on--I've been playing Nintendo and more since 1992, and I'm a butch-ish queer woman who doesn't play the fashion game.

None of this would justify me being called a "gamer" at the exclusion of a girl who spends hours on her presentation and runs a stream for profit. Gamer is a self-imposed identity, and it's no one's place to call that into question. Everyone gets to be themselves the way they want to be, and this wouldn't be such an issue is so many people didn't feel threatened by people who are different from them.

Well fucking said. Seriously, well said.

 

[quantumnerd]

I think part of it is because a lot of us know "that guy", the one who's not all that interested in a particular thing for its own sake (though he may enjoy it to some degree), but really likes to play up said interest in large part because "chicks dig guys who are into x". It's not that they're necessarily totally insincere, it's that getting with a member of the opposite sex is the most important thing to them, and the activity in question is just part of the image they're cultivating. So if there are guys like this, the thinking goes, then they must have female counterparts, too.

Yeah, this is kind of the thing. I have a social circle with male and female gamers in it, and there are a couple women that are the 'that guy' "gurrrl gamer" type. They play up how hardcore they are and point out their gender soon after, but didn't really grow up with games or learn much about them. Regardless of their motivations, it's a bit insincere, and the other women in our circles distance themselves from them as a result. It's not that identifying as a girl gamer is theoretically bad (being a girl and a gamer at the same time should be as acceptable as being a guy and a gamer at the same time). It's not that a push back against "gaming is only for guys" is bad. It's that the only people that identify as girl gamers tend to be making a point about themselves being special more than they're pushing back against bigotry. People see/think this is happening which then amplifies the effect. Note that several celebrities and activists like Brenda Romero do not identify themselves as girl gamers despite the fact that they identify as women in gaming-- "girl gamer" just has so many negative connotations and seems to attract the wrong people.

So yeah, nobody I know would take someone who sticks themselves with the "girl gamer" tag seriously unless the right essay was stapled onto the end of it.

 

[Giolon]

This is not even kind of a good analogy. How is someone who likes one thing but loathes everything else that resembles it a good stand-in for someone who likes one thing and either hasn't investigated other similar things, or likes them just fine but not enough to reduce the time they put into their one obsession?

I know plenty of people who like or enjoy one particular thing from something but actively dislike all the rest that they've ever encountered - Game of Thrones and fantasy is one example. People who hate fantasy but otherwise enjoy this show or book series. I wouldn't call them fantasy aficionados or fantasy enthusiasts. Some things manage to be enjoyed by a wider variety of people than their nature ordinarily would allow them to, in spite of their associated trappings rather than because of them.

And we weren't talking about someone who likes a whole raft of games but chooses to put their time into a single title. We were talking about someone who literally only likes a single title but otherwise dislikes games - at least I was. I don't think that person would identify themselves as a gamer, but if they did I wouldn't stop them. I don't even like to identify myself as a gamer, because of all the negative connotations that go with it, but I suppose that's probably best for a different topic.

 

[Eusis]

I think part of it is because a lot of us know "that guy", the one who's not all that interested in a particular thing for its own sake (though he may enjoy it to some degree), but really likes to play up said interest in large part because "chicks dig guys who are into x". It's not that they're necessarily totally insincere, it's that getting with a member of the opposite sex is the most important thing to them, and the activity in question is just part of the image they're cultivating. So if there are guys like this, the thinking goes, then they must have female counterparts, too.

It's not a thought process wholly without merit as it's a form of peer pressure or at least similar to it, but then that may be a pathway to really getting into something. Would someone say a little girl that got into ponies because of her friends isn't a real pony fan, or that a guy who only played games because all the other guys were doing so isn't a real gamer? Or that anyone who only checked out a show like Breaking Bad after it became popular isn't a real fan? Even if some actually are just going along with it because everyone else is without seeming to REALLY get into it there's really no reason to be rude about it.

I hope these are short bans. >_>

Some of them are juniors that practically danced across a marked minefield. I wouldn't hold out much hope for them.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

Yeah, this is kind of the thing. I have a social circle with male and female gamers in it, and there are a couple women that are the 'that guy' "gurrrl gamer" type. They play up how hardcore they are and point out their gender soon after, but didn't really grow up with games or learn much about them. Regardless of their motivations, it's a bit insincere, and the other women in our circles distance themselves from them as a result. It's not that identifying as a girl gamer is theoretically bad (being a girl and a gamer at the same time should be as acceptable as being a guy and a gamer at the same time). It's not that a push back against "gaming is only for guys" is bad. It's that the only people that identify as girl gamers tend to be making a point about themselves being special more than they're pushing back against bigotry. People see/think this is happening which then amplifies the effect. Note that several celebrities and activists like Brenda Romero do not identify themselves as girl gamers despite the fact that they identify as women in gaming-- "girl gamer" just has so many negative connotations and seems to attract the wrong people.

So yeah, nobody I know would take someone who sticks themselves with the "girl gamer" tag seriously unless the right essay was stapled onto the end of it.

So what?

Remove all reference to gender from your post and you're left with a description of a huge chunk of today's gamers who were sucked in during the last two generations. Should we act like an exclusive club and give all of them shit for wanting to learn, or should we be a good friend to our greenhorn friends and encourage their interest? Why do so many in this thread and in our community at large apply a different standard when the person in question is female?

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Yeah, this is kind of the thing. I have a social circle with male and female gamers in it, and there are a couple women that are the 'that guy' "gurrrl gamer" type. They play up how hardcore they are and point out their gender soon after, but didn't really grow up with games or learn much about them. Regardless of their motivations, it's a bit insincere, and the other women in our circles distance themselves from them as a result. It's not that identifying as a girl gamer is theoretically bad (being a girl and a gamer at the same time should be as acceptable as being a guy and a gamer at the same time). It's not that a push back against "gaming is only for guys" is bad. It's that the only people that identify as girl gamers tend to be making a point about themselves being special more than they're pushing back against bigotry. People see/think this is happening which then amplifies the effect. Note that several celebrities and activists like Brenda Romero do not identify themselves as girl gamers despite the fact that they identify as women in gaming-- "girl gamer" just has so many negative connotations and seems to attract the wrong people.

The thing is though the type of people it attracts is those people's hangup, not the 'girl gamer' in question's. It's like Erin S Kittens said above, they have every right to identify themselves as a 'girl gamer' or just a 'gamer' or whatever other tag/label/handle they like. Sure they may be 'playing up' the 'girl' part of 'girl gamer', but that's their decision to make.

I can see why some women who play games but don't identify themselves as 'girl gamers' might distance themselves from it, but at the same time they might be selling themselves short occassionally. That girl/woman may be doing it as a means to an end, or they may just be doing it because that's what pop culture has exposed them to. I mean how many times do you see people, both men and women, trying to live up to some fantasy ideal set by magazine covers, underwear photos, and hollywood movies.

Lots of guys wish they had a six pack and cut biceps, and lots of girls wish they had a perfect 34/24/36 frame. Not all mind you, maybe not even most, but lots do wish they looked better, or were better at certain activities, etc. Many folks chase after that ideal in other areas. Gaming isn't much different. Many of these 'girl gamers' might just be chasing after what they think is the 'ideal' image of what being a girl and a gamer is. Maybe its insecurity, maybe it's just because they're trying to make a profitable youtube channel, or maybe heck they just want to be both a 'hot girl' and a 'gamer' at the same time, so they chase after that stereotypical image. I don't see that as a reason to shun them per se.

Some of my best guy friends are gym rats who are chasing after the 'perfect male physique' image. But that doesn't encompass the entirity of who they are as individuals. They're pretty cool guys outside of that, and we agree to disagree on matters of what supplements are toeing the line between good dietary choices and detrimental hormone/chemical additives. Personally I like to go to the gym and work out and stay in shape, but I refuse to spend 4 hours a day chasing that ideal physique just because popular media says it's what I should look like. As long as I'm in shape and can still pass my old military standards of health I'm good with it, but I don't condemn those guys for their choice to chase that image.

Live and let live man. If they wanna be 'gurl gamers' that's cool, or they can be 'women that play games'. The two don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive either, but in cases where they are just chill out, accept it, and let them do their thing.

 

[Giolon]

It's not a thought process wholly without merit as it's a form of peer pressure or at least similar to it, but then that may be a pathway to really getting into something. Would someone say a little girl that got into ponies because of her friends isn't a real pony fan, or that a guy who only played games because all the other guys were doing so isn't a real gamer? Or that anyone who only checked out a show like Breaking Bad after it became popular isn't a real fan? Even if some actually are just going along with it because everyone else is without seeming to REALLY get into it there's really no reason to be rude about it.

These are really good points, even though I'll admit to having fallen victim to that mindset myself. I think about how I got into Game of Thrones - at Season 3! - and how much less fun it would've been if people had been largely going on and on about how I can't be a real fan unless I'd read the books and endured the agony of waiting 13 years or whatever the hell it was for GRRM to release his next book. Just be happy that more people are getting into the thing you're getting into!

Similarly, I got into learning to take better photos and bought some of my own camera gear largely because I have some friends who are really into photography. I don't feel like I know enough or am good enough to call myself a photographer though - maybe I'll get there one day!

 

[H.Protagonist]

Maybe I should've worded things better myself. : /

Wearing makeup, being well-groomed, and dressing sexily doesn't make a woman inherently shallow or superficial, and it definitely doesn't invalidate her credentials as a gamer. I'm sorry if I somehow gave you the impression that I felt that way.

What I think those comics are saying - in a deliberately exaggerated fashion - is that for the type of "girl gamers" they're depicting, their supposed interest in videogames is just another fashion accessory, like sexy outfits or makeup. Their primary goal is to attract the attention of men and/or other women, and they're only interested in gaming insofar as they think it can help them achieve that goal.

Another thing I think is worth bearing in mind is that comics like these are meant to be humorous, even when they're presenting some sort of social commentary. The "girl gamer vs. gamer girl" divide is deliberately played up for effect because the comparison of two characters at opposite poles like that is funny. I don't think most people actually believe that a woman has to dress in ratty t-shirts, have birds-nest hair and curse like a sailor to be considered a "real" gamer.

I'm glad you don't personally believe that's the case, but can you see why it's weird/wrong to make it so this or that? These comics boil it down to a level that isn't remotely realistic. Do any streamers not enjoy the attention they get? Why are only female gamers usually held to this black or white standard? Can a female gamer not like games and enjoy the attention she gets when playing them? I mean, that seems like the prerequisite for anyone running a channel, but I don't see guys getting labeled as fake gamers for it.

For the humor element, I get that the opposite stereotypes are played up for effect, but if you're the one constantly having to justify your hobby or being dismissed because you happen to be a girl, it's not really funny. It's pretty damned annoying.

And, of course no one thinks you have to be a disheveled bird's nest to be a female gamer, but they do seem to find you completely suspect if you're not. Or hell, even if you do wear gaming gear or profess an interest they quiz you or assume you're just a wearing a logo because it's 'cute'.

Anyway, Charlequin has already dissected things far better than I can, but that's about the stretch of it.

I hope these are short bans. >_>

I hope you have something to actually contribute besides that.

 

[Karkador]

So what?

Remove all reference to gender from your post and you're left with a description of a huge chunk of today's gamers who were sucked in during the last two generations. Should we act like an exclusive club and give all of them shit for wanting to learn, or should we be a good friend to our greenhorn friends and encourage their interest? Why do so many in this thread and in our community at large apply a different standard when the person in question is female?

If it's not a standard against someone because they're female, then it's because they're not "hardcore enough" of a gamer. In either case (as well as in the case of both), it comes off as juvenile and petty.

I realize that there is some irony in saying "shut down the exclusive gamer club" on Neogaf.com, but there is a lot of elitist attitudes in gaming communities that really, really aren't fun or worth hanging onto.

 

[quantumnerd]

So what?

Remove all reference to gender from your post and you're left with a description of a huge chunk of today's gamers who were sucked in during the last two generations. Should we act like an exclusive club and give all of them shit for wanting to learn, or should we be a good friend to our greenhorn friends and encourage their interest? Why do so many in this thread and in our community at large apply a different standard when the person in question is female?

As a community manager, I generally have a policy of being friendly to greenhorns, so I see where you're coming from. For the record, we include these people in our games and teach them everything. The distancing part is mostly in disposition-- the other women are unwilling to appear like they're seeking attention, but that's about it.

But anyways, that's a bit of a tangent. I may not be expressing myself very clearly, but we don't treat people differently because they're female. We're just tired of people flaunting their genders like it makes them special. I have guy friends that do this too and play up the macho act, which gets old just as fast.

I'm always worried that I could be being too exclusive, but I think that avoiding the term "girl gamer", even if we replace it with something similar and roughly equivalent (like female gamer), is a good call for everyone.

EDIT:

Some of my best guy friends are gym rats who are chasing after the 'perfect male physique' image. But that doesn't encompass the entirity of who they are as individuals.

Live and let live man. If they wanna be 'gurl gamers' that's cool, or they can be 'women that play games'. The two don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive either, but in cases where they are just chill out, accept it, and let them do their thing.

I have friends that go to the gym, but not all of them act the same. Some of them are calm people that enjoy looking good. Others are macho and think biceps are their ticket to women and will brag about this to me and my friends. It's their right to do this, but I can't stand it. Maybe they have some reason that they want to prove themselves or show off to me, but I don't have to like it.

 

[PK Gaming]

None of this would justify me being called a "gamer" at the exclusion of a girl who spends hours on her presentation and runs a stream for profit. Gamer is a self-imposed identity, and it's no one's place to call that into question. Everyone gets to be themselves the way they want to be, and this wouldn't be such an issue is so many people didn't feel threatened by people who are different from them.

Well said

Indulge in what you enjoy and hold your head up high. That's all you need to be a gamer, an artist, or what have you.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

If it's not a standard against someone because they're female, then it's because they're not "hardcore enough" of a gamer. In either case (as well as in the case of both), it comes off as juvenile and petty.

I realize that there is some irony in saying "shut down the exclusive gamer club" on Neogaf.com, but there is a lot of elitist attitudes in gaming communities that really, really aren't fun or worth hanging onto.

Correct. We need to be more inclusive. An industry comprised of and catering to an insular "hardcore" community is a huge part of why our games continue to lack diversity to an extreme degree.

Indulge in what you enjoy and hold your head up high. That's all you need to be a gamer, an artist, or what have you.

Truth. Thanks to Art Academy, I took up painting (partially NSFW) in the beginning of April, after a lifetime of never cultivating drawing at all. I'm so so so so so thankful that my friends who've been artists for years generously encouraged me to embark on projects, use live models, and follow my heart. No one put me down for using a 3DS as my medium or discovering my interest later in life, told me to stay away from proposing projects to galleries, or said I should give up until I got some real paints or took some real classes. Of course, this is because I've got a wonderful set of friends--I've heard stories and seen some major hate on the internet for new artists.

 

[Buzzman]

but I think that avoiding the term "girl gamer", even if we replace it with something similar and roughly equivalent (like female gamer), is a good call for everyone.

I'm sorry, but LOL.

but didn't really grow up with games or learn much about them.

Can somebody please explain to me why this even remotely matters. Are only the most hardcore of gamers allowed to show themselves or something?

 

[charlequin]

Note that several celebrities and activists like Brenda Romero do not identify themselves as girl gamers despite the fact that they identify as women in gaming-- "girl gamer" just has so many negative connotations and seems to attract the wrong people.

As a person who has spoken to Brenda Romero and is familiar with her work on sexism in the gaming industry, I am quite confident she would not be interested in you name-dropping her in support of such a divisive and exclusionary definition of "girl gamers."

I know plenty of people who like or enjoy one particular thing from something but actively dislike all the rest that they've ever encountered

I don't particularlycare who you do or don't know because that's not actually what we've been talking about. A person who says "oh I hate fantasy except for GoT" or whatever other nonsense is not the same as a person who's an enthusiast gamer who mostly plays a single, all-encompassing MMO, and that person is not an excuse to dismiss "girl gamers" (or any gamers) for claiming the "gamer" label.

 

[PK Gaming]

Truth. Thanks to Art Academy, I took up painting (partially NSFW) in the beginning of April, after a lifetime of never cultivating drawing at all. I'm so so so so so thankful that my friends who've been artists for years generously encouraged me to embark on projects, use live models, and follow my heart. No one put me down for using a 3DS as my medium or discovering my interest later in life, told me to stay away from proposing projects to galleries, or said I should give up until I got some real paints or took some real classes. Of course, this is because I've got a wonderful set of friends--I've heard stories and seen some major hate on the internet for new artists.

Those are some pretty solid drawings for someone who just started!

I plan on taking up drawing myself, and posts like these are encouraging.

 

[Karkador]

No one put me down for using a 3DS as my medium or discovering my interest later in life, told me to stay away from proposing projects to galleries, or said I should give up until I got some real paints or took some real classes. Of course, this is because I've got a wonderful set of friends--I've heard stories and seen some major hate on the internet for new artists.

Learning how to draw/paint on a 3DS? It's like some intersection of fake gaming and fake artistry! shame shame shame

Seriously, though, that's pretty cool

 

[Erin S Kittens]

Those are some pretty solid drawings for someone who just started!

I plan on taking up drawing myself, and posts like these are encouraging.

Thank you.

The first six are the result of Art Academy 3DS lessons, the rest are me kinda going my own way with my partner and my friends and other life references. If you have access to a 3DS, I recommend that program highly. Its lessons are classical in nature, extremely patient and logical, and I didn't even finish the beginner lessons! It really changed the way I see the world, and gave me confidence to explore. Incredible value.

I don't want to derail the thread too much from its topic, so feel free to PM me if you'd like further discussion.

 

[Giolon]

I don't particularly care who you do or don't know because that's not actually what we've been talking about. A person who says "oh I hate fantasy except for GoT" or whatever other nonsense is not the same as a person who's an enthusiast gamer who mostly plays a single, all-encompassing MMO, and that person is not an excuse to dismiss "girl gamers" (or any gamers) for claiming the "gamer" label.

I disagree that it's different, but for the bolded part, that's not something that I was ever implying or trying to say. I want to be clear about that. I also did say if a person that only played a single game and no others wanted to claim being a gamer, I wouldn't deny them that.

 

[KJRS_1993]

W H O G I V E S A S H I T

Got it in one my friend.

 

[MormaPope]

It honestly makes me happy to see women engage and be part of this medium. Not "OMG ITS A GIRL ITS TIME TO GET LAID GOTTA SEND A MESSAGE" happy, but happy in the sense that this medium reaches out to a lot of different people. It feels autonomously skewed most of the time, when it comes to who is being vocal about flaws in game design, creative flaws, and game criticism in general.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

As a community manager, I generally have a policy of being friendly to greenhorns, so I see where you're coming from. For the record, we include these people in our games and teach them everything. The distancing part is mostly in disposition-- the other women are unwilling to appear like they're seeking attention, but that's about it.

But anyways, that's a bit of a tangent. I may not be expressing myself very clearly, but we don't treat people differently because they're female. We're just tired of people flaunting their genders like it makes them special. I have guy friends that do this too and play up the macho act, which gets old just as fast.

I'm always worried that I could be being too exclusive, but I think that avoiding the term "girl gamer", even if we replace it with something similar and roughly equivalent (like female gamer), is a good call for everyone.

I have friends that go to the gym, but not all of them act the same. Some of them are calm people that enjoy looking good. Others are macho and think biceps are their ticket to women and will brag about this to me and my friends. It's their right to do this, but I can't stand it. Maybe they have some reason that they want to prove themselves or show off to me, but I don't have to like it.

You don't have to like everyone, but you should consciously avoid placing barriers before them. Replace female with Black and gender with race, and tell me if you'd still stand by your words. As long as someone isn't hurting someone else or violating their consent, there's no wrong way to express yourself--think about where you might stand in that equation. This is something I had to deal with a lot growing up. I was raised conservatively and taught to put down and distrust those different than me. It took many years of living in the real world and cultivating a truly open heart and mind for me to get past some of these hang-ups.

If one worked at a gym or even just hung out at one, it would be bad form to insult the lunks for their perceived-to-be-wrongly-expressed obsession with their testosterone.

 

[Funchameleon]

girls scare me

 

[Foffy]

I am only puzzled by the emphasis of gender. I understand that there is a classification difference between males and females who happen to play games because of apparent "differences", which of itself is an act of supposed separation between one group and another. I find it to be pretty silly in itself (even the term gamer to me is silly), but I also understand that why that is the case, due to the hostility of others. To me, people are people first; whatever you want to paste on top of that isn't going to offend me. I just choose to opt out of that as much as I can.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I get why this separation of "gamer" to gender exists, but the fact it exists at all is bewildering to me. I suppose it is because even video games turns into a petty tribal game of an Us and a Them, a battle or X and Y. For me, that shit's an old game, and I don't play it. If only more people woke up to that, especially beyond video games, seeing as insignificant differences between race and gender are still major issues on this fucking planet...

I hope I have not offended or confused anybody.

 

[Aquamarine]

girls scare me

I'm not scaryy~

don't underestimate me JUST BECUZ I'M A #GAMERGIRL THO

 

[Log4Girlz]

Who is the most popular female youtube personality? Regarding games of course. I'm curious, every time I watch a review or playthrough or strategy or whatever its always a guy. I need variety.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

You don't have to like everyone, but you should consciously avoid placing barriers before them. Replace female with Black and gender with race, and tell me if you'd still stand by your words. As long as someone isn't hurting someone else or violating their consent, there's no wrong way to express yourself--think about where you might stand in that equation. This is something I had to deal with a lot growing up. I was raised conservatively and taught to put down and distrust those different than me. It took many years of living in the real world and cultivating a truly open heart and mind for me to get past some of these hang-ups.

If one worked at a gym or even just hung out at one, it would be bad form to insult the lunks for their perceived-to-be-wrongly-expressed obsession with their testosterone.

Exactly. That's kinda why I brought up the gym reference because it's so easy for people to disparage 'muscle phreaks' just because they make an active choice to chase that body image. There are assholes in every group, but there are plenty of really cool people in every group too.

I've met some 'girl gamers' that were so freaking annoying once I got to know them that I couldn't stand being around them for more than a minute, but it had nothing to do with them identifying themselves as girl gamers. But I at least tried to get to know them without dismissing them outright. In fact I'd hazard a guess that I've disliked a much larger percentage of male gamers that I've encountered than female gamers. The 'girl gamers' I disliked had more to do with their personality on a fundamental level. I've met just as many annoying people and jerks in every other group/category out there, whether it be enthusiast in a particular activity or just casual participant, or the random guy on the street that turns out to be a total jerk. I've also met some very cool folks from walks of life I never would've imagined having any common ground with, which is awesome because we can share experiences with each other that I otherwise might've missed out on.

Automatically dismissing someone or excluding people before getting to know them just because they ascribe a certain label to themself is absurd. If you do that it's usually because you have your own hangups and prejudices rather than because of anything they overtly did.

If you (not referring to you personally Erin but people in general) find yourself being annoyed by someone who professes to be a 'gamer girl', step back and ask yourself if you're annoyed because of them as a person or because of something you're projecting onto them because of your own preconceived notions that you automatically assume they fit into when you hear the term gamer girl? Odds are quite often you'll find that your annoyances are your own doing, and they're actually pretty cool people to be around otherwise. If you enter into a conversation without any biases, the term 'gamer girl' in and of itself doesn't hold any power to influence your opinions on someone and you might just get along famously.

 

[Karkador]

Who is the most popular female youtube personality? Regarding games of course. I'm curious, every time I watch a review or playthrough or strategy or whatever its always a guy. I need variety.

(Your face here)

 

[Giolon]

Who is the most popular female youtube personality? Regarding games of course. I'm curious, every time I watch a review or playthrough or strategy or whatever its always a guy. I need variety.

I don't know how popular she is, but watch Kay's Dark Souls videos. There's a thread for them here on GAF. They're fantastic.

 

[zeldablue]

Maybe it's because I'm not into online games/social games and I don't follow that many streams...but I don't see anything wrong with "girl gamer."

But my friend told me he's disgusted by the term so now I guess it's a word I can't use to describe myself.

I don't do anything to make it obvious I'm a girl, but if everyone assumes I'm a male by default...it's sometimes important to correct them simply because the words "he and his" are not the same as "she and her" in our language. Girls put "gal, girl, lady, etc" right in their username just to avoid the common mistake of everyone assuming male as the default.

 

[Funchameleon]

The idea of a f-f-female enjoying my hobby in spite of the community's every effort to ensure that never happens is simultaneously so intimidating and titillating to me I channel my confused rage into a combination of online harassment and webcomics that mock anyone that doesn't fit my strict definition of "gamer". If I ever actually met a female human that knows how to hold a controller (my fantasy) I would akwardly confess my love for her on the spot and go home dejected, burying my head in Reddit; doubling down on my harassment efforts, reveling in misogynistic comradery and posting angry rants about Anita Sarkeesian until the end of time. I'm Mark and I'm a Gamer.

edit:

I actually hate all terms.

sorry please replace my post with this

 

[Mozendo]

Who is the most popular female youtube personality? Regarding games of course. I'm curious, every time I watch a review or playthrough or strategy or whatever its always a guy. I need variety.

Don't really know if Dodger is the most popular or not, but seeing how she gets mentioned a lot near me I'm going to assume she's one of the top 5.

 

[ishibear]

Since I was a little girl I've been playing video games with my older brother. Even going into school and all the way into high school I never had any hostile treatment or scrutiny or even favorable things thrown my way for being a girl into video games. All my guy friends growing up never even mentioned my gender playing a part in their attraction to me or our friendship at all, nor did they treat me or my best friend (also a girl) like we were special. It was kinda normal for girls to like games in my experiences. Everyone enjoyed them and we had fun while competing.

I never knew it was such a big deal until I got to college. Guys were shocked that a girl like me would play games and that was rather foreign for me, because I was used to just the usual "hey you got Tekken? Cool let's play", but suddenly it became "OMG you play Smash Bros? No way, I bet you suck cuz you're a girl. Is Peach your favorite? Are you single cuz my last gf was __ (insert insult here about girl not liking games)". It was very uncomfortable tbh. I still get this from guys sometimes too. Even recently a guy I grew up with discovered I liked games and now he and his friend are all puppy eyeing me like I'm some geeky goddess when really I ain't all that special. Dudes act like it's just so bizarre for girls to like games.

And then there's this gamer gurl vs girl gamer stuff that I'm so confused about. Why can't girls just play the damn games we want to without suddenly being scrutinized to go along with the usual belittling for our damn sex? Who cares if some girl puts on a fake image for potential hookups? Have you people forgotten that "Nice Guys" are running around the world pretending to be something they aren't too? This is nothing new. It's all just a facade to seem different or better than others of the same gender. Eventually their true colors come out.

 

[KePoW]

I don't know how popular she is, but watch Kay's Dark Souls videos. There's a thread for them here on GAF. They're fantastic.

Kay Plays is nowhere near popular, in regards to total youtube views.