The term 'girl gamer'

Fiction said:
The problem is A). generalizing all women who identify that way as attention whores B). not considering men who stream attention whores.

As a bunch of women in this thread have said, sometimes identifying as a woman and a gamer is merely pushing back against the false notion that women don't play games. Yet of we do identify our gender were automatically labeled as attention whores and dismissed as 'only liking games for the attention.'

And on the subject of cosplay, again, only the women who do it are singled out as being 'attention whores'. Tons of men cosplay as well, but no one tries to shame their behavior, other than 'poorly done cosplay' and such.
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It's pretty clear that there's an active double standard against women in this area.

It actually reminds me of when VaatiVidya (Dark Souls 2 youtuber) showed his face in one of his videos. If I remember correctly it was pretty much just him talking about Dark Souls 2 stuff for ten minutes with the camera centered on himself. The comments of that video were mostly filled with people swooning for him. However I did not see a single comment mention anything about "doing it for attention" or of him being illegitimate.

I think the opposite would most definitely have happened in a genderswapped scenario.

Another thing is how I've seen many take the mere mention of being female as this big statement that goes far beyond just revealing one detail about yourself. While a male is free to say something like "I'm just a dude/guy who does X", a female doing the same is anathema and met with unreasonable scrutiny.
 
Fiction said:
The problem is A). generalizing all women who identify that way as attention whores B). not considering men who stream attention whores.

As a bunch of women in this thread have said, sometimes identifying as a woman and a gamer is merely pushing back against the false notion that women don't play games. Yet of we do identify our gender were automatically labeled as attention whores and dismissed as 'only liking games for the attention.'

And on the subject of cosplay, again, only the women who do it are singled out as being 'attention whores'. Tons of men cosplay as well, but no one tries to shame their behavior, other than 'poorly done cosplay' and such.
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I think there is a big difference between identifying yourself as a woman and labeling yourself as a "girl gamer"/"gurl gamer". It is the difference between a person who plays games that happens to be a woman and someone who seeks attention and found out that playing games is a good way to achieve it.
It is also very dependant on the way it is done/presented. Some girls would use the term just to state a fact, with no attention seeking intentions. While others will draw everyone's attention to it at every possible opportunity.
Currently I think that the term "girl gamer" has a negative connotation , the same way "casual gamer" has. There is nothing wrong/unusual with either of them, but they are usually perceived as negative.
 
Geez, boy gamers are really concerned with people wanting attention. People on YouTube wanting attention? I've never heard of such a thing.
 
Haziq said:
I always wondered why people care.

If you're a girl and you play games that's cool. I'm not going to go out of my way to call you a girl gamer or something stupid like that. You just play games and that's awesome.
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It's not allowed to be that simple.
The term "gamer" is stupid and "girl gamer" is even more stupid. Seriously. Why?
 
Fiction said:
Do you think that maybe the reason the term 'girl gamer' is perceived as negative is because of everyone automatically applying the attention whore label even though it's usually not merited and not because of the women themselves? Any woman who is streaming or vocal about her love for games on the internet is labeled an attention whore and not really a gamer. It doesn't matter of they grew up playing games or are passionate about them. And when men do the exact same thing, nothing is seen as wrong with that. I've been called an attention who're many times simple for identifying as female.
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I wouldn't say everyone, because I don't.
Fiction said:
The question we should be asking ourselves is why. Is it because of the boys club mentality gaming has?
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There is also a "hardcore gamer" mentality that rejects casual players. And a "nerd gamer" mentality that rejects people who enjoy games while knowing nothing about the game's history/lore. I think there is quite a lot of toxicity in the gaming community. Being disrespectful towards female gamers is one of them.
Fiction said:
Or simply due to bitterness of seeing someone maginally attractive get attention?
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It's not just toward marginally attractive women. Every popular streamer has a haters camp. There are quite a lot of pewdiepie, TB, Jim sterling etc. haters.
I am not trying to justify any of this. It is a problem. It is one of many.
 
Fiction said:
Do you think that maybe the reason the term 'girl gamer' is perceived as negative is because of everyone automatically applying the attention whore label even though it's usually not merited and not because of the women themselves? Any woman who is streaming or vocal about her love for games on the internet is labeled an attention whore and not really a gamer. It doesn't matter of they grew up playing games or are passionate about them. And when men do the exact same thing, nothing is seen as wrong with that. I've been called an attention who're many times simple for identifying as female. The question we should be asking ourselves is why. Is it because of the boys club mentality gaming has? Or simply due to bitterness of seeing someone maginally attractive get attention?
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But you identify yourself as a gamer first. Forgive me, I haven't read all 8 pages of this thread but I figured you did so because gaming should be a gender neutral hobby, not out of fear of being labelled as an attention seeker. Yes the label is perceived negative and I agree it has to do with bitterness, heavily. But saying you're a girl gamer sends a bad first impression because the first thing to come to mind is why must I know you're a girl.
 
It's pretty alright in my book. I think casting the insult 'attention whore' around is way more damaging. My reaction to someone identifying as a girl gamer is 'neat, what do you like to play', rather than anger or negative assumptions. There are people who fake it yeah, but they're in the vast minority and should be extended the same courtesy anyway - maybe they'll take a genuine interest. I'm pretty sure most people who are involved in the hobby do so because they like it. I think we all should be more positive about our identities and welcoming to each other, regardless of what we call ourselves - gamer, neckbeard, girl gamer, gamer girl, casual, hardcore...etc. There need not be a gate around our hobby.
 
Fiction said:
Do you think that maybe the reason the term 'girl gamer' is perceived as negative is because of everyone automatically applying the attention whore label even though it's usually not merited and not because of the women themselves? Any woman who is streaming or vocal about her love for games on the internet is labeled an attention whore and not really a gamer. It doesn't matter of they grew up playing games or are passionate about them. And when men do the exact same thing, nothing is seen as wrong with that. I've been called an attention who're many times simple for identifying as female. The question we should be asking ourselves is why. Is it because of the boys club mentality gaming has? Or simply due to bitterness of seeing someone maginally attractive get attention?
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When people call Girl Gamers "Attention Whores", they're not doing it because of the attention that is brought to them by playing video games. They're referring to the girl differentiating themselves from other gamers (Male and Female) by making a point to notify everyone that they're women. Especially on streaming sites. A woman on Twitch can use the term Girl Gamer as a marketing hook to get more people to watch her stream. Whether it be females looking for another female gamer to watch, or pulling in males who want to watch an attractive girl do a hobby that they like. I agree that while men don't use their gender, they have their own ways to get people interested in their channels. I wouldn't call anyone in the situation an attention whore, but I also don't think it's farfetched to say that the label of Girl Gamer is used as an attention grabber. It's a label someone is using to make themselves stand out from the pack.

The difference most people see between the Girl Gamer, and just a girl who plays games, is that the girl gamer is in your face, and needs to keep reminding you how much she likes games. Which would be an annoying trait no matter what the gender of the person saying it. I've met plenty of women in real life who play games, and I've never heard one of them identify as a Girl Gamer. When people say they think of attention whores when they think of Girl Gamers they don't mean that they think every girl who plays games in an attention whore, they mean that that phrase was bastardized by a subset of women who play games that gave it a negative connotation.

Personally I don't care what other people call themselves. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.
 
I'm often surprised at how many of the women I've met who have privately admitted to initially getting into games as a way to get attention end up falling into the hobby because they find out they like gaming. :D One of the coolest women I know through gaming / geekery admitted to me that she got into solely for the attention initially, and then ended up falling in love with games.

As a guy; I understand I'm not exactly the best suited to try to figure out this stuff from my end - but I got to listen in on two of my female D&D players (that night we had 3 girls and 3 guys, normally 4 guys / 3 girls) have a pretty interesting conversation about the whole topic. From their perspective, the ladies felt like those who game for attention purposes give the rest of them a bad rap, and they were relieved to find another woman who felt the same way, rather than having to defend "all" female gamers; even those who use the BS sent at all women as a cover to defend their attention mongering. I'll admit; the conversation definitely surprised me. But honestly; I feel like I'll let those affected come up with the best solution. (IE, keep my male butt out of it)

I think the male equivalent of this was the male engineers I knew who took women's studies classes for the express purpose of meeting women in college.

Also, worth bringing up into this thread as it is always relevant.

http://xkcd.com/1095/
 
girl gamer = attention seeker

i use to say im a gamer just because its easier than to say " i like playing games a lot, thats what i do for fun. "

but in the end of the day none exists and we should not use any.

no girls, no boys, no gamers. only people who love video games.
 
I definitely think that female players are still a bit of a minority (I def think there's way more fellas playing consoles than girls). But I've never self-identified myself as a girl gamer. I just am what I am. Though it probably helps that I've had a gaming console in my house since before I could even walk properly.
 
Fiction said:
Do you think that maybe the reason the term 'girl gamer' is perceived as negative is because of everyone automatically applying the attention whore label even though it's usually not merited and not because of the women themselves? Any woman who is streaming or vocal about her love for games on the internet is labeled an attention whore and not really a gamer. It doesn't matter of they grew up playing games or are passionate about them. And when men do the exact same thing, nothing is seen as wrong with that. I've been called an attention who're many times simple for identifying as female. The question we should be asking ourselves is why. Is it because of the boys club mentality gaming has? Or simply due to bitterness of seeing someone maginally attractive get attention?
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I think this is really valid. I hate the term 'attention whore' and I think it's doubly inappropriate when applied to women in this context.

Just to be clear, my initial point in the OP, which I clarified heavily during the discussion, was that I find the term irritating because it seems to me to be symptomatic of implicit self-limitation.

But I now think I was a bit naive. Having read through some of the comments (including one pretty vile image) I wonder if it's not a valid way to push back against the boys' club mentality. Certainly, if I was accused of some of the things implied in this thread, I'd probably hope for a 1,000 more 'attention whores' and cosplayers just as an act of defiance.

Bit of a volte-face, I know.
 
What I gather is that it's "attention whoring" because guys like objectifying women, therefore mentioning you're a woman will mean guys will seek you out. This is wrong because women should just accept sexism when it happens naturally, not flip it to their advantage unfairly.

I think there might be a 1000 pound gorilla somewhere in that logic but maybe that's just me.
 
sploatee said:
Hey, thanks for sharing that. I actually stopped gaming for about 10 years because of my ridiculous belief that it wasn't something a 'girl should do'. It's a huge relief to read posts like this and realise that not only is it something anyone can do but I'm also not alone.

It's all a bit OT now, but I can relate to the attention thing too. I wonder if it's a phase everyone goes through. It's part of the reason I don't 'self-declare' before a conversation has started. I get too easily freaked out and too easily 'polluted' by the numpties out there.
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You're welcome! It's funny that you mention this, while dealing with what I have already mentioned, I was also dealing with personal conflicts in the house. My brother would argue with me about playing video games, he would sometimes use violence, break my systems and say that games are for guys. That I am being a guy XD This only made me more stubborn and determined to continue this passion. In his defence though, he regretted acting like this when he grew up and he apologised for affecting my personality in my younger years. That's enough personal information for a thread :P

Also I'm glad that you can relate to that. I thought I was crazy for feeling that way a long time ago. Not sure if others go through this phase honestly.
 
APF said:
What I gather is that it's "attention whoring" because guys like objectifying women, therefore mentioning you're a woman will mean guys will seek you out. This is wrong because women should just accept sexism when it happens naturally, not flip it to their advantage unfairly.

I think there might be a 1000 pound gorilla somewhere in that logic but maybe that's just me.
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Bingo.

I would never call myself a "girl gamer" in person (or anywhere since I haven't been a "girl" in over 20 years). I do find that online, it's almost imperative at some point to mention that I am indeed a woman who plays video games. It's not for attention. It's because I get so tired of seeing post after post stating matter-of-factly that "women don't play our games" and that women just play mobile stuff.

I used to visit the Xbox Live forums and there was a group dedicated to female gamers called "GamerChix." I joined and it was a great place to meet other women who played the shooters I loved. I was also much less toxic than the COD forums I frequented. I honestly didn't mind the term. I guess I see "girl gamer" as something similar.
 
Pointing out your sex in relation to something you do is pretty pointless and when done online, it's generally seeking attention (at least when not prompted/on twitch or youtube)

How often do people go around saying "I'm a female beer drinker" or "I'm a male BBQer"?

It just makes people sound like they crave attention.

My wife and I play games together all the time. She just beat the D3 expansion without me (because I spend a lot of time gamedev-ing rather than playing). She doesn't describe herself as a Girl Gamer or Gamer Girl. She just tells people she likes video games.

So yeah, plea for attention.
 
APF said:
Online? Probably a lot, especially when there is any issue of inclusiveness or stereotyping that might be addressed.
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Perhaps my wife is the exception to the rule, but she has never done this or told me she felt the need to do it. What is there to gain from it? The best way to fight a stereotype is not to adhere to it. So just play games and have fun, without regard of what others think.
 
As a female, I hate it when other females feel the need to highlight they're a girl who plays games. Oh my God really you special little snowflake you!!!

People like that bring it on themselves. I've played in very macho environments (Counter-Strike, Call of Duty, etc etc) and very few people are focused on my gender when I use my mic. The ones who are would be dicks to anyone and honestly I don't really get "white knights" either. Maybe because I just talk normally and don't bring any focus on my gender.

Now of course, the internet is full of creeps and I have had people kinda cyber stalk me and want to befriend me because of my gender, but that's just life. You get guys like that at bars all the time.
 
Never did understand the whole smacking gender/race/sexual preference in front of gamer. It almost comes across as attention seeking. My sister plays games and never seen herself as a "Girl Gamer", but it's one of her hobbies.
 
CountAntonius said:
Well this just happened.

Girl Decides to play on twitch in a Black Cat Cosplay

And the stream monsters start asking for tits and call her an attention whore etc until they drive her to tears.
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Been watching this since you posted it, she's pulled it back good. Nice to see a girl playing CS too - not enough of us!

I'm not sure who I think is more pathetic, though, the guys that insult her or the ones that are blatantly flirting and have some weird obsession with her. Both awful on opposite ends of the scale.
 
TheMaidenInBlack said:
Been watching this since you posted it, she's pulled it back good. Nice to see a girl playing CS too - not enough of us!

I'm not sure who I think is more pathetic, though, the guys that insult her or the ones that are blatantly flirting and have some weird obsession with her. Both awful on opposite ends of the scale.
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Yeah. She made it sub only and it calmed the abusive chat down but some of that other element still remain.

Looks like she removed the sub only chat. The floodgates have opened again.
 
Here's my big problem.

You can look at the argument from two polorizing view points.

1. a "girl gamer" is attempting to draw attention to the fact that gaming is not just a boy/guy thing.
2. a "girl gamer" is segregating herself and producing gender striae, as opposed to just enjoying the gaming hobby.

I think this is a big problem with the feminist movement when it comes to discussions in games, they try to form an argument on behalf of the positive while lambasting and white-washing any criticism formed through the other. You can't do that, you can't be supportive of the act and ignore negative consequences all together.

But, if someone feels like they need to advertise what they have between their legs, then that's their right to do so.
 
Why do people care so much about attention-seeking? On Twitch and YouTube, everyone who plays video games is looking for some form of attention.
AdventureRacing said:
Go on to twitch basically any time of the day and essentially all the top streamers are young white males. It's not even fucking close.
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But, you know, that's okay. Those people aren't looking for attention, even though they publicly stream themselves playing video games all day.
CyanideFuse said:
Let me just say that I have never been one for dressing up. And my description of
some
cosplayers or whatever you would call them would probably fall under vulgarity rules so I'll just keep it at that.
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There are no fucking vulgarity rules.
 
CountAntonius said:
Yeah. She made it sub only and it calmed the abusive chat down but some of that other element still remain.

Looks like she removed the sub only chat. The floodgates have opened again.
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Yep. But to be honest, part of me thinks she needs to accepts this. She's trying to get people to sub for money, she runs ads for revenue, she's dressing up for attention (and thus money). That doesn't mean she should get the shit she is, but you have to accept reality and that's how it is right now...

It's a shame because she seems like a nice girl but she's definitely using her good looks to try and cash in on the gaming crowd would be my observation from the last half an hour or so of streaming. You take the bad with the good in that instance is my view.

Her passion for games is clearly genuine, but the way she's expressing it is always going to attact this type of thing.
 
CountAntonius said:
Well this just happened.

Girl Decides to play on twitch in a Black Cat Cosplay

And the stream monsters start asking for tits and call her an attention whore etc until they drive her to tears.
Click to expand...

I saw the update that it became sub only. I never intended to watch it and took what you stated as factual.

This confuses me. Why cosplay for a twitch stream at all? How does this enchance the gameplay or the commentary on how the game plays? To me even having a face cam is a bit weird, but this is a different level onto its self. Beyond that, I'm a bit befuddled as towards the kinds of responses that were expected. Was it to receive feedback relative to the costume and how it relates to the game? Was it a parrallel to a mindset of larping with similar individuals, but in a digital space being broadcast?

Then again I'm still left with wondering how is the cosplay even relevant to doing a game stream in the first place. I can understand someone having a Youtube chanel dedicated to fabric choices for costumes, makeup application (if needed), paint and adhesive types used etc and modeling said costume(s), while also talking about the related it is derived from. Playing a game and the differentiator of being in costume is just off.

Yeah, the reactions to her stream are bad, but that should go without any further discussion in regard to my post.
 
TheMaidenInBlack said:
Yep. But to be honest, part of me thinks she needs to accepts this. She's trying to get people to sub for money, she runs ads for revenue, she's dressing up for attention (and thus money). That doesn't mean she should get the shit she is, but you have to accept reality and that's how it is right now...

It's a shame because she seems like a nice girl but she's definitely using her good looks to try and cash in on the gaming crowd would be my observation from the last half an hour or so of streaming. You take the bad with the good in that instance is my view.

Her passion for games is clearly genuine, but the way she's expressing it is always going to attact this type of thing.
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If she should be attacked for anything it's her choice in music.
 
AlucardGV said:
this
c0bbG97.png
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I'm surprised she didn't position the cam so her forehead was cut off and her boobs would fit in the picture.
 
Fiction said:
I continue to find it super, super telling that no one ever saying something like 'Their passion is clearly genuine' when men are streaming, even if they are the type that have exaggerated personalities in order to make a mark.
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I think it's mostly cause they don't care to breakdown the reason's why men do things because they don't care as much if it's a man. But if it's a woman they either get put on a pedestal or judged to hell and back.
 
Fiction said:
I continue to find it super, super telling that no one ever saying something like 'Their passion is clearly genuine' when men are streaming, even if they are the type that have exaggerated personalities in order to make a mark.
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In my case, I've only ever watched streaming guys on Giant Bomb and have seen lots of obvious "fake" gamer girl stuff posted around.

That's all I meant by that comment - I wanted to make it clear I didn't think she was just using gaming as a means of making money.

You're probably absolutely right that many men do it just for the ad revenue, I don't doubt it.
 
Fiction said:
I continue to find it super, super telling that no one ever saying something like 'Their passion is clearly genuine' when men are streaming, even if they are the type that have exaggerated personalities in order to make a mark.



Despite you and everyone else in this thread with an inability to read, yeah they do.
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I have said this exact thing about Day9 comparing him to total biscut before.
 
TheMaidenInBlack said:
Yep. But to be honest, part of me thinks she needs to accepts this. She's trying to get people to sub for money, she runs ads for revenue, she's dressing up for attention (and thus money). That doesn't mean she should get the shit she is, but you have to accept reality and that's how it is right now...

It's a shame because she seems like a nice girl but she's definitely using her good looks to try and cash in on the gaming crowd would be my observation from the last half an hour or so of streaming. You take the bad with the good in that instance is my view.

Her passion for games is clearly genuine, but the way she's expressing it is always going to attact this type of thing.
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So your argument is that she should've expected the verbal abuse with the way she was behaving and dressing?
Where have I heard this before.
 
Orayn said:
Maybe because she only uses that setup while she's in between games and has a normal face cam while playing. There are guys who do the exact same thing.
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To expound on this a bit more, for those who didn't really skim through the thread to see this discussed, this is what it looks like when she's actually playing a game:

bffsh0h.png


According to someone earlier in the thread, a lot of streamers tend to do a full face cam when they have downtime. Supposedly, this helps retain viewers.
 
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