The term 'girl gamer'
- Thread starter sploatee
- Start date
Yeah, if you're gonna stream you will get people like that and you just gotta except it cause that's just how a lot of gamers/trolls are, especially if you're a female. I should know, I'm a female streamer and I do get tons of people like that! Although, I'd never show a yard long cleavage and beg for subs and donations or wear clothes like that. Thing is though, even if you're covered from head to toe you will still get trolls.
As for the term girl gamer, I don't like it and I've never used it before. It is kinda obnoxious when you go on twitch and there are many streams with the title "OMG, LOOOOK A GURL GAMER!!!!" I do have girl in my ID though and people have asked me why I had girl in my ID on twitch and when they ask there are at least 10 males with MAN or GUY or DUDE or BOY in their ID but nobody questions them, oh no! I have at least 30 or so male friends with those in their PSN or Steam ID, and bet they've never had anyone ask em why they have it in their ID or if they are an attention whores. It annoys the shit out of me and makes me go on a huge frickin' rant.
As for the term girl gamer, I don't like it and I've never used it before. It is kinda obnoxious when you go on twitch and there are many streams with the title "OMG, LOOOOK A GURL GAMER!!!!" I do have girl in my ID though and people have asked me why I had girl in my ID on twitch and when they ask there are at least 10 males with MAN or GUY or DUDE or BOY in their ID but nobody questions them, oh no! I have at least 30 or so male friends with those in their PSN or Steam ID, and bet they've never had anyone ask em why they have it in their ID or if they are an attention whores. It annoys the shit out of me and makes me go on a huge frickin' rant.
Kamina
Golden Boy
I've seen many streams, but no one ever did that, except in the beginning or the end.
I just remembered watching a video of a supposed Girl Gamer some time ago. After just a minute you noticed she had no idea what she was talking about. The whole video was set up so her forehead and hair were out of the picture but her boobs, in a wide cut tank shirt, were fitting on screen.
excaliburps
Press - MP1st.com
I understand what you feel. I gather that "thing" will stop once more and more females start playing core games and it won't be seen as odd. Guys should also stop trying to impress or hit on girl gamers, too. It's sad whenever I see that happen.
Not just in games, but in games writing, too, I think. Not saying females are only getting games writing jobs because of their gender, by the way. But if you look on Twitter and other social media, you'll see a lot of "gamer folk" that's following X female for some reason. I check their Twitter profiles and they don't seem to be games media or even someone they know personally. The only conclusion I can think of is because: A) They're a girl and B)They're hot. It's a crass way of looking at it but sometimes it's blatantly obvious. And this doesn't help the typical "LOL Gamer geek" stereotype that most people associate us with.
For the most part, "girl gamer" and the stereotypes associated with it should go away. I mean, how would people feel if everyone did this? "Guy Gamer," "Hot Dudebro Gamer" or something.
Oh well then, in that case it's totally okay to stereotype.
To expound on this a bit more, for those who didn't really skim through the thread to see this discussed, this is what it looks like when she's actually playing a game:
According to someone earlier in the thread, a lot of streamers tend to do a full face cam when they have downtime. Supposedly, this helps retain viewers.
Why did you cut out the bottom part? i can't even see the full HP bar. That's not how it looks on stream.
Anyway...
Not possibly, actually. Someone posted a screencap of her stream when she was in-game and it was exactly like I described.
Also, with regards to the cosplay question: Twitch allows all gaming related content, including video game cosplay, fanart, development, etc.
I thought we'd got into the bit of the discussion where the adults talk after the children have gone to bed.
I can sort of understand what you mean - I guess you are saying she should be more pragmatic and steel herself before streaming? Maybe, but you can't really do that. I know from when I've been in a situation where you're getting abuse from every angle, despite everything you might tell yourself, you'd have to be pretty special to just remain indifferent (but I haven't watched the stream, so please let me know if I'm talking rubbish).
Either way, I'd strongly disagree on two points (sorry for being all debate-society) - I don't think you should accept reality as it is right now and secondly the way anybody dresses should not, reasonably, be cause for abuse - whether it's a hijab, a burka, a short bodycon dress, boys' clothes, girls' clothes - whatever. I remember getting "eurgh! that's a lesbian!" abuse when I used to go out with my girlfriend wearing pretty much boys clothes and even getting small children in our area insulting me as I'd leave the flat, so maybe I'm a bit salty. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable.
CountAntonius
Member
Why did you cut out the bottom part? i can't even see the full HP bar. That's not how it looks on stream.
Anyway...
Does she use the Brazzers font for her name? lol.
You're right, it goes towards victim blaming, but you also got to wonder what kind of audience she expects to attract with that channel.
There are clearly no reasons to follow a woman on twitter unless she works for games media, is someone you know IRL, or is hot.
Jesus Christ, people say female gamers will only be seen as normal when they're more prominent in the hobby, yet even identifying as a woman means people assume you're just looking for attention because of it. It's basically impossible to win.
Kamina
Golden Boy
By all due respect, but I've seen many 'gamer girls' in all kinds of video's on youtube, streams and so on. The ones who are actually gaming girls are rarely often on screen because they care about the game they are talking about, exceptions being game device reviews and the likes.
Sure there are always videos and streams out of the ordinary.
Also, ignoring the fact that we apparently live in a 'the-more-views-the-better'-world (which is often exploited by the fact that sex sells and the average internet user is male) is of course not stereotype.
No Kaceytron is a genius. You have no idea how much money she makes with subscribers and donations.
Personally i'm still surprised people pay to sub to streamers just...playing games as normal. I enjoy watching streams of new games / betas I cant get into as much as the next person...but it just seems odd to me.
Reviews, hands on things before release, and previews you cant get anywhere else...now thats another story.
Reviews, hands on things before release, and previews you cant get anywhere else...now thats another story.
You mean, something like this?
Know your audience
I don't expect that particular individual to have gone down that path given the stated reaction she had. This doesn't mean she deserved to be attacked.
There does have to be some kind of middle ground to be head here.
edit spelling
Right. She literally plays whatever game she is playing awfully on purpose and then talks about how great she is at the game and how everyone else is so bad to rile people up. People then donate to put a scrolling message on her screen to insult her. She's playing off the weakness of uptight male gamers, and she's doing it wonderfully.
Kaceytron took trolling to a new level.
CountAntonius
Member
Would sub.
Wiktor
Member
Well...book lovers call themselves readers.
Anyway, don't mind the term girl gamer. They're girls who play games, so it fits.
You clearly haven't.
A jimquisition video would look better than the actual thing.
<insert Jim fanboyism>
First, go look at how many streams have streamer cams. Most of them are guys.
Second, explain why a streamer cam means you don't care about the game you're playing. Most speed run streams have one, and they care far more about their game than you.
Third, provide examples at the very least if you're going to make broad generalizations.
Fourth, fuck "actual". They are playing games. That is all there is to it.
Fifth, explain why girls should have to not be visible.
Does she use the Brazzers font for her name? lol.
LOL, I never noticed that until now haha
Granted I don't watch any streams, but that's still funny as hell.
SeventhSon
Member
Kay, a female gamer I respect, and enjoy following on youtube.
Here's the channel description:
I'm Kay, a woman who enjoy playing video games. I record Let's Plays, often blind, and try to explore game worlds methodically and with a sense of wonder. I don't screech or whine or button mash, and I try to vary my playstyle over long series. I hope you come along for the ride!
There's no face cam in her videos, either.
Here's the channel description:
I'm Kay, a woman who enjoy playing video games. I record Let's Plays, often blind, and try to explore game worlds methodically and with a sense of wonder. I don't screech or whine or button mash, and I try to vary my playstyle over long series. I hope you come along for the ride!
There's no face cam in her videos, either.
Jprobespierre
Banned
Actually, this is real life and there is an equation that governs the laws of females who play video games.
According to Hefner's Theory of cock hardening, a female who is:
(Pretty + Tall) = Set for life.
Assume:
Pretty + Tall Girl - V (Uppercase)
Set for life - $$
Horny under-fucked Male - p (Lowercase)
Girl gamer - G
Now lets examine this equation one step further.
p = V/$$, p($$) = V, The amount of $$ directly reflects the quality of V, p is a universal constant.
When you replace V with G, strange things start to happen, lets call this the attention deficit effect.
p = $$/G, G(p) = $$. The amount of (p) direct reflects the quantity of $$, G is a special condition with limited quantities in the known world.
Now if a few extra things to consider:
If p = V/$$ than V/$$ = $$/G or VG = $$^2
$$^2 - Income stream of immense proportions.
If $$ = G(p) then p = V/G(p) or p^2 = V/G
p^2 = P,
P - Wealthy + Handsome Male
You will notice that the only time p is equal to V or G without the presence of $$ is when another p is present, which causes an irrational situation and the equation must be simplified.
tl:dr
Don't hate on girls trying to get theirs by exploiting the audience that watches them.
Nymphae
Banned
No they're film buffs, typically. But the reason they don't have they're own label like "gamer" is probably because every single person you know likes movies. it would be more meaningful to label those that don't like movies.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
This, is actually ingenius. Love that.
It doesn't, but reading those posts I can see what got them booted. At least pretend like you have some respect for women. Pretend, even if you don't.
You really should though. You realize you were born because of a lady, right? They're kind of awesome.
A film buff is not "someone that likes movies". That's, nearly everyone, and they're called "moviegoers". Film buffs have a genuine love of film. They see everything, they pick apart everything. That's the equivalency between "film buff" and "gamer".
Kamina
Golden Boy
Yes I have. Maybe there platforms where streams are more anonymous than on others.
I know, never stated otherwise
I wasn't talking about streamer cams in particular. I do believe that streamers care about their games. If they do more than me or someone else is an entirely different thing.
I apparently misjudged the picture i saw further above. But don't expect me to turn the internet upside down to look for something just to provide you or anyone with evidence, we're not at court.
No one said that. Everyone can stream or upload videos however they please.
Red Pencil
Member
Been reading along with the thread and figured I might as well put my two cents in.
On the original topic, the term "girl gamer" in and of itself does not elicit a reaction from me. The phrase to me is simply a descriptive term in my eyes and does nothing to tell me more about a particular person other than their gender and that they enjoy video games.
On the overall concept of girl gamers, I occasionally wonder if I'm doing a disservice by playing male characters all the time in games and not bringing up my gender in those sorts of settings. In the short-term, I'm mostly just concerned with enjoying the game and playing as I feel like playing them. However, maybe by stating my gender, I can help show that there is a larger female gaming audience than people seem to believe, even if it's just one more person. Maybe it'll also help create a sense of community for other female gamers to show that they are not alone. I don't think I'd be harassed, but seeing stories of those who have been makes me consider just going about as I have for years now and just not bringing it up. In a way, that's just easier.
On the original topic, the term "girl gamer" in and of itself does not elicit a reaction from me. The phrase to me is simply a descriptive term in my eyes and does nothing to tell me more about a particular person other than their gender and that they enjoy video games.
On the overall concept of girl gamers, I occasionally wonder if I'm doing a disservice by playing male characters all the time in games and not bringing up my gender in those sorts of settings. In the short-term, I'm mostly just concerned with enjoying the game and playing as I feel like playing them. However, maybe by stating my gender, I can help show that there is a larger female gaming audience than people seem to believe, even if it's just one more person. Maybe it'll also help create a sense of community for other female gamers to show that they are not alone. I don't think I'd be harassed, but seeing stories of those who have been makes me consider just going about as I have for years now and just not bringing it up. In a way, that's just easier.
In Kay's case, I would say "passion for gaming" and in a completely unironic manner. She's built a small but loyal following playing games in a way that I can only admire.
But yeah, I think the whole questioning of "passion" is silly and irrelevant. Who cares if a select few are just in it for the ad revenue. So what?
CountAntonius
Member
Obligatory Keza MacDonald fansplodge. I think men are far more likely to make deeper assumptions about a woman based on her appearance than a woman is about a man. I know that's pretty controversial! Maybe it's because of who I am, but it's that example of how the atmosphere at a strip club and say a Chippendale - esque show is so different. Sorry if that doesn't make much sense.
There's an interesting point someone made a while back in the thread about replacing gender terms with racial ones. I honestly don't know the answer.
Even with the TL:dr I'm still confused. I don't speak maths! Can you put it in long words please?
Oh, you've had bad experiences with <group of people> and that of course means they must almost all be like that.
Let me tell you about the gamer girl.
Zxrophantom
Member
Personally for me its does not provoke anything. I know some people get bent out of shape about gamer labels but to me its whatever. Sure down the line or even now its will or is a redundant term because most everyone games in some forms nowadays.
Kamina
Golden Boy
Never said that. As stated above: I might have misjudged the picture before. Quit adding fictional meanings between my words.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
I have always found it annoying that many of the top Twitch streams (for certain games) were girls with cleavage exposed.
There are plenty of good streams from both sexes, but when I go to the main page for a game and see 60% plus of the streams as females with low cut shirts, it's just sad. And, no, I don't believe they are girls looking for attention; it's just girls being smart and knowing their audience, who happily lap that up.
The sad part about this falls on the audience's side of the equation. I would hope they would gravitate naturally to the streamers with the best (subjective, I know) content/most likable/entertaining personalities, etc.
It's like the PS4 Playroom streams - the ones named "two girls chillin'" or something similar inevitably bubble up to the top of the list due to increased viewer numbers, even if they are literally doing nothing but sitting there on a couch starring at the TV.
If I were a girl, I'd probably have ditched gaming long ago due to this fanatical obsession male gamers have over the opposite sex and their hobby. I would want to fit in and have fun, not be made a spectacle of at every turn.
There are plenty of good streams from both sexes, but when I go to the main page for a game and see 60% plus of the streams as females with low cut shirts, it's just sad. And, no, I don't believe they are girls looking for attention; it's just girls being smart and knowing their audience, who happily lap that up.
The sad part about this falls on the audience's side of the equation. I would hope they would gravitate naturally to the streamers with the best (subjective, I know) content/most likable/entertaining personalities, etc.
It's like the PS4 Playroom streams - the ones named "two girls chillin'" or something similar inevitably bubble up to the top of the list due to increased viewer numbers, even if they are literally doing nothing but sitting there on a couch starring at the TV.
If I were a girl, I'd probably have ditched gaming long ago due to this fanatical obsession male gamers have over the opposite sex and their hobby. I would want to fit in and have fun, not be made a spectacle of at every turn.
Pristine_Condition
Member
That's an absolutely silly mental leap to make. It is possible to even overtly use one's looks and/or sexuality to promote oneself or a product or work of art and not be anything near a "slut," and our culture absolutely accepts this at this point.
This notion seeks to deny thousands of years of history, art, literature, all the way into the modern world of internet celebrity, and reams of scientific research into the nature of sexuality and attraction and marketing.
I think if you think that someone even suggesting that someone my be innocently or playfully leveraging just a bit of sexuality or attraction to further their marketing footprint just automatically feels bad to you--and you see the dark, cloudy whisps of an evil agenda around every statement of the sort--well, that says more about YOU than it does anybody else.
Seems like people are bending sooooo far backward to protect against the bugaboo of patriarchy that they are now trying to deny even the basics of even innocent, mild sexual attraction. Well, they can go ahead and deny it all they want. Meanwhile, some very smart folks at EVERY SINGLE ADVERTISING AGENCY I'VE EVER WORKED FOR--very smart men AND women--use this concept every day, because it is proven to work.
This.
I just looked her up on youtube. She's obviously trolling and it would be hilarious if anyone couldn't realize that. I thought it was funny for the few minutes I watched. There was a guy that did that for COD videos a few years back. I loved his vids.
Pristine_Condition
Member
TheMaidenInBlack
Banned
I only watched the stream for a little over half an hour, but in that time it seemed to me she was leveraging her looks to get subs and lonely/awkward men interacting with her. If she was just a pretty girl without the "plz sub" things, the weird promises of cosplay if x goals are reached, and so on then she would absolutely be free of criticism.
What I'm saying is this girl seemed to be trying to get men to view her sexually for gain but didn't like it when the opposite of white knights appeared. I just don't think you can do what she does without having thicker skin because as her popularity grows so will that type of attention.
The sad part, of course, is the fact she did seem very upset and also quite nice. She maybe hadn't been exposed to that sort of thing before. A lesson was learnt today I'm sure.
I'm bisexual (leaning more towards lesbian as time goes on) so I agree with you on a lot of points here and have been the target of abuse before.
My point about the cosplay wasn't that she shouldn't wear what she wants, because she should, but I think her motivation was to look sexual in a bid to increase subs, in which case she gets a whole lot less sympathy from me. She's not sat there in a cosplay outfit becuase it's comfy or anything, it was a calculated move to tap in to a niche fetish that Twitch has an audience for. I don't know that 100% of course but I would feel it's a safe bet.
MrFrankFontaine
Banned
exactly.
Thanks for clarifying. Maybe I'm being too idealistic, I'll need to have a think. I'm pretty new to the culture so I know a lot less about it than most people (wasn't even aware of what cosplay was until fairly recently!).
No doubt.
I really find it amusing -- the people on GAF who are against base human physical attraction. I have no idea what these posters are like in real life, but they sound really uptight.
I'm all for the girl streamers who use their looks as an advantage. I think that's awesome, and I blame the dopes who willingly give them money... that's their own fault.
Just like "gold-diggers" in real life. I don't blame the girls, but instead the guys who are stupid enough to fall for it.
the first one is the worst. literally know so many girls, who boast about that they play videogames all the day.
once they find their prey, guys who also play games and are attracted by them, they want to lend some games only to ask them a few days later, if these guys have something to gift to them, because those girls pretend to be too poor to buy new games.
seriously, this wasnt just one girl... at least three girls, who are all friends together did this at our university. that was the moment, around 5 years ago, when i decided i never want to have anything to do with these filthy people.
if its just a normal conversation, i would gladly join, but since these weird incidents, iam so careful.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Most geek subcultures are predominately filled with guys who stereotypically have a hard time getting laid. While many guys deal with this by becoming bitter misogynists who hate women and want them to get out of their boys-only club, many other guys deal with it by white knighting/"Nice Guy"-ing every girl they think they have a chance with, which includes most girls who share their geeky interests. This means that whether she likes it or not, a woman who enters such a subculture is going to get a level of treatment from said guys that she'd have to be more attractive and/or talented to get if she hung around a more gender-balanced group and/or guys who actually could get laid. And to reiterate- the cause of this is guys, not girls.
That said, there's a difference between getting that passively and actively trying to get special treatment for being a girl. This is, of course, a somewhat difficult thing to judge unless you can read the girl's mind, but I do think it's shitty to assume a girl is doing something solely for special treatment when it's something a guy would do with nobody batting an eye (talking in voice chat, webcam in stream, taking donations/subscriptions in their stream, cosplay, etc.)
I also don't think a girl is a bad person just for doing that, mind you- to me how "okay" it is is dependent on how much they seem to like games vs. how much they seem to like being treated like a special snowflake for being a girl who plays games. I honestly find a girl streaming with a webcam showing off her cleavage but still playing games the majority of the time less "offensive" than a girl who doesn't use a webcam/dresses more conservatively on it but spends more time basking in the attention she's getting from the guys in her chat room than actually playing a fucking game.
That said, there's a difference between getting that passively and actively trying to get special treatment for being a girl. This is, of course, a somewhat difficult thing to judge unless you can read the girl's mind, but I do think it's shitty to assume a girl is doing something solely for special treatment when it's something a guy would do with nobody batting an eye (talking in voice chat, webcam in stream, taking donations/subscriptions in their stream, cosplay, etc.)
I also don't think a girl is a bad person just for doing that, mind you- to me how "okay" it is is dependent on how much they seem to like games vs. how much they seem to like being treated like a special snowflake for being a girl who plays games. I honestly find a girl streaming with a webcam showing off her cleavage but still playing games the majority of the time less "offensive" than a girl who doesn't use a webcam/dresses more conservatively on it but spends more time basking in the attention she's getting from the guys in her chat room than actually playing a fucking game.
QuantumZebra
Member
Perfect.
It's no different from the "hardcore gamer" label... it's just something people say/use to make themselves feel better/draw attention/separate themselves from just being a "gamer" (which is apparently not good enough).
Casual/hardcore/girl/gaymer ... all of those need to go. We are just gamers.
Opinionatedfish
Member
Read the OP and first page, hit this image.
I think there's very little else to say now. I mean, the thread has already delivered.
On a side note, I've been sitting on the URL nintendiva.com forever. I want to eventually find some people to help me turn it into a blog with a podcast, video content, store et cetra. I already have a logo. The problem is that it can't be just any female (or male) gamers that would populate the blog. Also, it would require at least $1,000 worth of investment to do it right. Essentially, the concept is to find people who are obsessed with Nintendo, but are also "high strung prima donnas." The second part comes from the bright pink shirts that were distributed amongst Atari engineers after Ray Kassar's criticism of them. A Prima Donna is a "Diva." I wanted to populate a Nintendo website with proud and interesting "characters." The other part of the site is that it would participate and promote a lot of charities. They would hold Take Back The Night, Denim day events, volunteer at Women's shelters, put together safe events for victims, interview prominent political women and people fighting for women's rights and so forth. I want to compile a group that could talk Nintendo games with Eve Ensler or Chelsea Clinton, and that would be par for the course. The type of site that would hype up a video interview with Jessica Nigri and the video interview would be her and the lady interviewing her dressed in
sweatpants and oversized sweatshirts talking about sewing design, plotting out costumes, photoshop filters, charities, and comfortable shoes for cosplaying in. You know, actually useful stuff and the complete opposite of this. Seriously.
I think too many people look at "Girl Gamer" as an excuse to either "white knight" or "slut shame" and that's bad. :-/
Of course, we've all known at least one person who put stickers on their Game Boy growing up and referred to it as their "Game Girl" because the name of the system was gender exclusive for a system that is incredibly gender neutral.
But yeah.. rambling....
I don't think you understand Gotcheye's point. It's not that sexual attraction doesn't exist, or that people don't use it as a tool for things like money, etc. but that we shouldn't make presumptions about people and de-legitimize everything else about them. You might not personally find anything wrong with that they're doing, but as you can see from the comments these streamers get, other people certainly use it as an excuse to post some vile shit or make assumptions about a whole gender. That's where the slut shaming comes in. "Her cleavage is showing in a stream? She's a slut who just wants my money and she isn't even a real gamer even if she spends more time gaming than I do and all other women who claim to video games are like this especially if they're attractive." That's the issue here, not that attractive women are making money off showing they're faces on a video game stream.
If some female (or male) streamers realize that they can make a lot of money by putting themselves on cam while they play video games, so what? Seems like for a lot of folks, streaming is a way to combine 1) a hobby they enjoy with 2) a way to communicate with people who like the same thing and 3) a way to make some money. The priority of those things can be ordered differently, and just because one person of a gender has them in a certain order, doesn't mean everyone else does.
Who are all these people?