No matter how many times this is said it seems to constantly fall on deaf ears.
Whoopi Goldberg under fire for saying men have the right to fight back
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No matter how many times this is said it seems to constantly fall on deaf ears.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Just responding to the point of the thread. You're right, most women are weaker than men. And just as I wouldn't hit a child or elderly person who attacked me, I wouldn't hit a woman. Unless she had a weapon.
Lynd7
Member
Agree with Whoopi, of course the media will jump all over this though... She is the only person on the view that has any brains for common sense anyway..
Just because you'd hit a woman back, doesn't mean you can't hold back to a level that wouldn't cause more harm than what she can deal out.
Just because you'd hit a woman back, doesn't mean you can't hold back to a level that wouldn't cause more harm than what she can deal out.
ConradCervantes
Banned
Jeez, you bloodthirsty savages.
Even if the chick has a blade in one hand and a heater in the other while coming at you with murderous intent, don't hit her. Instead, disarm her using your charming wiles and "man strength." Then forgive her her trespasses and assume blame for the situation.
Even if the chick has a blade in one hand and a heater in the other while coming at you with murderous intent, don't hit her. Instead, disarm her using your charming wiles and "man strength." Then forgive her her trespasses and assume blame for the situation.
The problem I have with "But men are stronger than women, so you can't defend yourself if they're attacking you" is that it is sexist.
What if some skinny small man hit you and you're stronger than him but it still hurts when you're getting fleshed in the face. Should you not defend yourself from other men either if they attack but are weaker?
If anyone is trying to harm me, personally I am going to try to defend myself.
What if some skinny small man hit you and you're stronger than him but it still hurts when you're getting fleshed in the face. Should you not defend yourself from other men either if they attack but are weaker?
If anyone is trying to harm me, personally I am going to try to defend myself.
And if someone from those aforementioned groups were to attack you? You wouldn't fight back because... They're possibly physically weaker than you?
I honestly don't understand this logic. Someone is attacking you. You have the right to fight back.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
But you would punch a woman who was bigger than you?
As you would punch a man that was bigger than you?
If yes, then gender is kinda an irrelevant factor in these hypothetical scenarios, and bringing up gender kinda implies there are potentially sexist assumptions in play (such as men being protectors who should never hit women, but could totally punch men under the right circumstances).
You're focusing on the sex of a person instead of their physical size, for no apparent good reason.
Defending =/= beating the piss out of.
Neutralizing the threat is fine. Continuing to rain hell upon someone afterwards is not.
Disclaimer: These are opinions and they are mine.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
If a tiny man attacks me, I'd just restrain him. Why are you acting like defending equals hitting?
The Black Dynamite way.
Riderz1337
Banned
Why is she under fire for saying this?? She is 100% right. If someone is attacking me, I have the right to fight/protect myself.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Well I mean if you're a male who weighs over 200 pounds there probably isn't much personal significance in the distinction.
Ignoring the ridiculous trained fighter hypothetical.
I get what Squiddy is trying to say and I agree with it mostly, but I don't think the particular fight he's picking is worth fighting in this thread. There's bigger fish to fry.
Defense =//= Hitting. I am saying if I am being attacked I am going to try to stop it. I'm not going to go out hitting someone just because. I will try to restrain first and foremost. That is common sense.
Red Liquorice
Member
She's right, but you can't say it as someone with a public profile - especially in this day and age where the slightest comment will get a social media frenzy within the hour of broadcast/publication.
If someone came for me, I'll defend myself - and I don't mean shield myself with my arms - I mean give as good as I get. Of course if you deserved a smack for being a shithead, that's a different story, you started it.
If someone came for me, I'll defend myself - and I don't mean shield myself with my arms - I mean give as good as I get. Of course if you deserved a smack for being a shithead, that's a different story, you started it.
Nameless
Member
It is relevant since in most cases a man will still be better equipped to deal and take damage than a larger female agressor.
I'd rather a person first tried to kind of grapple/restraint or wrestle the person to the ground and keep them there while trying to get help (call the police or if there's a crowd, try to get someone from them to help) and withhold the attacking one from continuing his or her aggressiveness instead of immediately falling to their level & answering violence with violence.
That said, if it escalates to a point where that's not a possibility, I don't see why a man couldn't defend himself from a woman with some physical attacks, as long as you don't go overboard and beat a person to a bloody bulp.
That said, if it escalates to a point where that's not a possibility, I don't see why a man couldn't defend himself from a woman with some physical attacks, as long as you don't go overboard and beat a person to a bloody bulp.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I'm curious, why?
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm a 6'3 athletic black guy. I'm not going to find a woman who is "bigger" than me anytime soon. However if I magically did and was attacked, I wouldn't fight back. I'd attempt to restrain her while making it clear I had no intention of hitting her. That's just my view on this. I don't fight women, and if you want to call it sexist I honestly don't care (although I'm pretty sure you're trolling me). I simply don't believe men should physically attack women unless it's a life/death situation.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I can't believe this has turned into "it's sexist that you wouldn't hit a woman!"
If you're willing to hit a man but not a women who are the same size and weight, then yes that is absolutely sexist.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Would you punch a man though in a non-life/death situation.
A simple yes or no answer would suffice, sir.
Basically the crux of the argument.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This doesn't solve anything. It's not relevant to the topic or argument.
Hamster Plugin
Member
Because they WOULD hit a man with similar strength. That is sexist.
So NOT wanting to hit a woman is now considered sexist? And this is viewed as a bad thing correct? Am I getting this right? Oh boy I am so thankful that I do not have to share your world view. So so thankful.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
People are so oblivious to to what perpetuates the patriarchy, and it is precisely these sort of seemingly "harmless" sexist attitudes that promotes a machismo culture that encourages men to hit other men, but treat women as physical inferiors on a categorical basis.
Of course it is relevant to the discussion.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I really don't judge misogyny based on whether or not I'd hit a woman.
"I'd hit a woman" isn't going to dismantle the patriarchy.
I agree that it doesn't have to be, but there are situations where fighting back is the only defense.
Hamster Plugin
Member
The bad thing is that you are willing to hit a presumably weaker man than you.
It certainly is a worthy fight to pick, the gender of the attacker shouldn't be considered, only their ability to inflict harm. Jay-Z was right not to hit back, not because Solange is female, but because Solange didn't pose a threat worthy of hitting back. Had Solange been male, but the same approximate size and strength he shouldn't all of a sudden be in the right for hitting that person, but society would be far less critical had he hit this male Solange than if he hit a female Solange. That appropriate use of force is different between men and women is wrong. Appropriate use of force is about the potential threat the assailant poses, not whether or not they have a penis.
Here is the thing, an average woman will pose less of a threat than an average man, but any blanket generalization that is as prone to exceptions as, "never hit a woman," shouldn't exist.
stufte
Member
If all things are equal in a confrontation (size difference, strength, etc) and you'd need to hit the person that is attacking you in order to escape, not hitting a woman *because* she's a woman is in fact sexist.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
This is one of the stupidest cases of twisting words I've seen in these kinds of arguments in a while.
Edit:
Sexism != Misogyny
You really ought to at least learn the definitions before approaching these topics with such supposed authority.
Willingness to strike someone based on their gender is absolutely sexist. I'm grateful that I'm not a sexist pig.
Zoe
Member
Just because it's not a "bad" thing doesn't mean it's not sexist. Squiddy's response above is perfect here.
No... If you're willing to hit a man sharing the same physical attributes but not the woman then that is the very definition of sexism.
PhoenixDark
Banned
This is in no way relevant to the topic at hand but of course I'd punch a man who tried to fight me. It wouldn't be my first decision - I'd first try to defuse the situation and make it clear I didn't want to fight, but if that didn't work then let's go. I'm not a confrontational person and while I've been in a couple fights, I didn't start them. I ended them though.
I agree that this kind of situation is pretty rare and these types of situations hardly occur with extensively powerful women. I do think that we can look at this thread in a different way that is far more productive. We should look at attitudes of violence vs men. It is pretty much socially acceptable among guys to ground a man for saying words you don't like, even of the guy is scrawny. This is the kind of patriarchal behavior that should be highlighted and scorned. If just words can get you to lay out a scrawny guy, then what happens when he physically assaults you? The reason that mra groups are such a joke is because most of them are just trying to be contradictory to feminism, and honestly feminism isn't just for women, it is also a boon to men as a means of lessening the harmful effects of patriarchal attitudes.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I just don't get what your point is.
Are you criticizing people for doing the right thing for the wrong reason? I don't understand what you or Squiddy's purpose is here within the context of this discussion. (It's not a thread about a bigger man laying out a weaker man)
I mean you're attacking people saying that they wouldn't hit a woman in this situation, while ignoring all the people coming in and agreeing with Whoopi's stance. That just seems counterproductive to what I think you're trying to advocate here.
Cloud Strife
Member
"I wouldn't hit a woman" is going to perpetuate it.
Extra Sauce
Member
Should always be a case to case basis, talking in absolutes on either sides is silly. If a petite woman hits a 300 pounds dude, and he hits back with all his strength by punching her in the face... that's wrong.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yes, this. The question should be "would you hit anyone attacking you if you had to" rather than trying to trap people into making incorrect answers about gender. Do we actually care about sexism, or do we just like accusing people of it?
It's a thread with people disputing what Whoopi is saying by categorically placing women on a lesser tier physically than men. The reason why stronger vs weaker men are in the discussion is because of the people who refuse to hit women due to the idea of them being weaker but are willing to hit men of comparable sizes/weight.
PontyfaxJr
Member
This is how a real man defends himself against a woman.
Spoiler warning for metal gear solid 3.
Spoiler warning for metal gear solid 3.
Ah okay good people of GAF. I am sexist then. I'll just have to deal with that.
No. Sexist pig would actually be a upgrade for you.
Sexist pigs are above feminists?
stufte
Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie, you keep trying to make this conversation about a generic "hitting a woman" argument, and no one is arguing for the right to just "hit a woman" as you keep stating. Why can't you just be honest in your responses instead of trying to twist the conversation?
Zoe
Member
I don't get what you're saying here. If most people in the thread agree with Whoopi, then wouldn't the focus be on the opposing viewpoints?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
What's the purpose for the "would you hit a similarly sized man attacking you" tangent then?
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