Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

Astrosanity said:
I thought his model was fine.
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I wasn't talking about his animations as much as his regular model gloves having the same textures as the fingerless ones and small details like that.

That, the low poly flabs sticking out, the textures on his WW shirt.

There's a lot of small details I didn't like.
 
georly said:
Team no cuts.

I still am holding out hope for squirtle/ivysaur being unlockables, which is why they havent been shown :P I know squirtles chances are diminished because we already have another water type, but his moveset is unique. They'd have to give him and ivy a new move, but still.

Like neorice said, the work to keep them in the game is way less than the work to put in a new guy.

Hopefully we get mewtwo back, also. Roy's the only one I don't see coming back, because he wasn't "de-cloned" for brawl, so he might as well be a brand new character.
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I sure hope this is true, I have my life staked on it.

It shouldn't be that hard to give Squirtle a new Down and Ivy a new Up & Down. Squirtle could use something like Double Team or Gyro Ball and Ivy could use Double Edge as an up & Sleep Powder Leech seed as a down.

The only problem with them remaining in the game is that they don't exactly match the mega evolution thing that Game Freak is trying to push. I wonder how that would affect their final smashes, if they have one at all. This doesn't help Jiggly's case either.
 
TomShoe said:
I sure hope this is true, I have my life staked on it.

It shouldn't be that hard to give Squirtle a new Down and Ivy a new Up & Down. Squirtle could use something like Double Team or Gyro Ball and Ivy could use Double Edge as an up & Sleep Powder Leech seed as a down.

The only problem with them remaining in the game is that they don't exactly match the mega evolution thing that Game Freak is trying to push. I wonder how that would affect their final smashes, if they have one at all. This doesn't help Jiggly's case either.
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They dont NEED mega evolutions. Squirtle's final smash could be hyrdo pump and Ivysaur could easily just have solar beam. If ANYTIHNG, squirtle would get cut and ivysaur could be promoted to venusaur, but i'm still hoping that they remain.

For jigglypuff, my idea was to replace her up b with something more useful, and move 'sing' to either a taunt or a final smash (everyone falls asleep). I've honestly not put too much thought into it, but her new 'fairy' typing will probably be incorporated somehow. Likely into her final smash for ease of development.
 
Jigglypuff's upB should just be changed to Hyper Voice. It'd be a shock wave a la Tabuu's Off Waves with way less potency. Final Smash should either be Dazzling Gleam (shines on everyone nearby while singing in the "spotlight"), Play Rough (just charges for the nearest opponent and sucks them into a "big ball of violence" that can suck other characters in while moving left and right on the ground) or Moonblast (fires an explosive projectile from the skies overhead at an angle downward).
 
Neoriceisgood said:
Interestingly enough, the only character I outright didn't see coming back was pokemon trainer. I wish I had been louder about that just for the sheer gloating I could've done.
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Here let me do it for you then. Since I always advocated them being gone.

georly said:
Team no cuts.

I still am holding out hope for squirtle/ivysaur being unlockables, which is why they havent been shown :P I know squirtles chances are diminished because we already have another water type, but his moveset is unique. They'd have to give him and ivy a new move, but still.

Like neorice said, the work to keep them in the game is way less than the work to put in a new guy.

Hopefully we get mewtwo back, also. Roy's the only one I don't see coming back, because he wasn't "de-cloned" for brawl, so he might as well be a brand new character.
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No I want thetwo tostay gone. Or atleast Assist at best. I was glad they got the boot. Probably against Mewtwo coming back unless they give him his movie voice. I suppose I'd be fine if it was the one for the new movie.

Neoriceisgood said:
Interestingly enough, the only character I outright didn't see coming back was pokemon trainer. I wish I had been louder about that just for the sheer gloating I could've done.
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georly said:
Team no cuts.

I still am holding out hope for squirtle/ivysaur being unlockables, which is why they havent been shown :P I know squirtles chances are diminished because we already have another water type, but his moveset is unique. They'd have to give him and ivy a new move, but still.

Like neorice said, the work to keep them in the game is way less than the work to put in a new guy.

Hopefully we get mewtwo back, also. Roy's the only one I don't see coming back, because he wasn't "de-cloned" for brawl, so he might as well be a brand new character.
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TomShoe said:
I sure hope this is true, I have my life staked on it.

It shouldn't be that hard to give Squirtle a new Down and Ivy a new Up & Down. Squirtle could use something like Double Team or Gyro Ball and Ivy could use Double Edge as an up & Sleep Powder Leech seed as a down.

The only problem with them remaining in the game is that they don't exactly match the mega evolution thing that Game Freak is trying to push. I wonder how that would affect their final smashes, if they have one at all. This doesn't help Jiggly's case either.
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Hope you had a nice life. Seeya.

georly said:
They dont NEED mega evolutions. Squirtle's final smash could be hyrdo pump and Ivysaur could easily just have solar beam. If ANYTIHNG, squirtle would get cut and ivysaur could be promoted to venusaur, but i'm still hoping that they remain.

For jigglypuff, my idea was to replace her up b with something more useful, and move 'sing' to either a taunt or a final smash (everyone falls asleep). I've honestly not put too much thought into it, but her new 'fairy' typing will probably be incorporated somehow. Likely into her final smash for ease of development.
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Sounds plausible.
 
Princess_Eevee9 said:
No I want thetwo tostay gone. Or atleast Assist at best. I was glad they got the boot. Probably against Mewtwo coming back unless they give him his movie voice. I suppose I'd be fine if it was the one for the new movie.
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What benefit is there to having them cut? Why do you WANT them gone? It's not like they were particularly annoying to fight.

Like neorice said earlier, the amount of work it would take to keep them is roughly 1/5th of the amount of work to make someone brand new. Granted, it takes even LESS work to cut them, but still. Other than mewtwo, we've had no unique characters ever cut. Cutting two more unique movesets out of smash would be unfortunate.

Can we think of any other pokemon or nintendo characters who could use (some or all of) squirtle/ivysaur's movesets? They don't even have to retain the 'water' or 'grass' properties, so long as the moves remain functionally intact.

I just hate losing unique abilities in smash bros :/
 
NotLiquid said:
If Sakurai doesn't explicitly announce that New Pork City is cut I'm not buying this game
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So if he never announces New Pork City is gone, but it actually IS gone, you won't buy this game. Got it. Enjoy not buying the game, then. Because he won't announce stages that were removed, for sure.
 
Team Cuts

Pokemon Trainer was a really unique character, but its obvious they want to go away from transformation characters. A buffed Charizard should be good heavy fighter. I do wish they replaced Lucario with Mewtwo, though M2 may still appear.

If it was up to me and I could create the roster from scratch, I would cut these characters:

ROB
Falco/Wolf (survivor has vastly changed move set)
Toon Link
Lucario
Lucas
Ike

I want characters that play in creative ways like Olimar and Little Mac, not clones. I know cutting is not a popular opinion, but I feel that the obligation to add past fighters would limit the potential.
 
Forkball said:
If it was up to me and I could create the roster from scratch, I would cut these characters:

ROB
Falco/Wolf (survivor has vastly changed move set)
Toon Link
Lucario
Lucas
Ike

I want characters that play in creative ways like Olimar and Little Mac, not clones. I know cutting is not a popular opinion, but I feel that the obligation to add past fighters would limit the potential.
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How on earth do you believe IKE is a clone? He plays NOTHING like marth or anyone else. The only similar move they have is the counter attack.

I understand your reasoning for everyone else (even though 85% of the character is mechanically different. They're only aesthetically similar), but IKE?

Also, ROB? I get if you think he's a 'lame' character, but he's not similar to anyone else. He's fairly unique, though a bit dull to play as (for me anyway)
 
Who is ROB a clone of? Who is Lucario a clone of? Who is Ike a clone of? Why would Wolf need a "vastly changed moveset", if he shares only 2 A-Moves with Fox (and that is if you make it broad like "kicks backwards" and "kicks upwards"), and the specials are as different as they can get? Same with Lucas.
 
georly said:
How on earth do you believe IKE is a clone? He plays NOTHING like marth or anyone else. The only similar move they have is the counter attack.

I understand your reasoning for everyone else (even though 85% of the character is mechanically different. They're only aesthetically similar), but IKE?

Also, ROB? I get if you think he's a 'lame' character, but he's not similar to anyone else. He's fairly unique, though a bit dull to play as (for me anyway)
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I enjoyed playing as Ike and didn't mean to imply that he was a clone, but he's taking up precious Chrom/Lucina space.
qwerty_zps1a7b336a.jpg

I WANNA SEE THAT

And you answered your own question on ROB. He's so dull to play as or against. Mr. Game and Watch is already a good joke character.
 
Forkball said:
Team Cuts

Pokemon Trainer was a really unique character, but its obvious they want to go away from transformation characters. A buffed Charizard should be good heavy fighter. I do wish they replaced Lucario with Mewtwo, though M2 may still appear.

If it was up to me and I could create the roster from scratch, I would cut these characters:

ROB
Falco/Wolf (survivor has vastly changed move set)
Toon Link
Lucario
Lucas
Ike

I want characters that play in creative ways like Olimar and Little Mac, not clones. I know cutting is not a popular opinion, but I feel that the obligation to add past fighters would limit the potential.
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I'm very seriously sad/upset at people who feel like characters as unique as ROB, important to their series as Toon Link, Falco, Wolf or Lucario, or only share minor visual similarities in base models to someone from their franchise like Lucas or Ike should go to accommodate some vague newcomers (who most of the time are way less impressive overall).
 
The only problem with them remaining in the game is that they don't exactly match the mega evolution thing that Game Freak is trying to push. I wonder how that would affect their final smashes, if they have one at all. This doesn't help Jiggly's case either.
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Greninja doesn't have a Mega evolution either. Really, if they want to avoid using too many resources for them, they could even reuse part of their animations from the Triple Finisher from Brawl and use those blasts as their solo Final Smashes.

No I want thetwo tostay gone. Or atleast Assist at best. I was glad they got the boot. Probably against Mewtwo coming back unless they give him his movie voice. I suppose I'd be fine if it was the one for the new movie.
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Mewtwo actually did have his movie voice in Melee for the Japanese track. It seems like they were lazy, or maybe the VA cost too much, and so they didn't dub him for the English track.

Anyway, why would you want to remove them? They're both very unique characters. Ivysaur being the only one that isn't two legged even.
 
Azure J said:
I'm very seriously sad/upset at people who feel like characters as unique as ROB, important to their series as Toon Link, Falco, Wolf or Lucario, or only share minor visual similarities in base models to someone from their franchise like Lucas or Ike should go to accommodate some vague newcomers (who most of the time are way less impressive overall).
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I'm more upset that nobody ever suggests cutting Ganondorf or Luigi, who are clonier than Wolf or Lucas to their respective "base" characters.
 
Red Arremer said:
I'm more upset that nobody ever suggests cutting Ganondorf or Luigi, who are clonier than Wolf or Lucas to their respective "base" characters.
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What? Did you EVER play as Luigi? Him and Mario only "share" the Fire Ball and Recovery jump, all other moves are completely different. And even then Fire Ball and the Recovery jump work completely different for each of them.
 
Azure J said:
I'm very seriously sad/upset at people who feel like characters as unique as ROB, important to their series as Toon Link, Falco, Wolf or Lucario, or only share minor visual similarities in base models to someone from their franchise like Lucas or Ike should go to accommodate some vague newcomers (who most of the time are way less impressive overall).
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ROB is unique, but he is not fun to play as. He's an annoying camping character with low mobility and weak finishing moves. I just want someone else. And he already had a Mario Kart appearance, when will his greed stop?!

Red Arremer said:
Game & Watch isn't a joke character. The only joke character we had in the entire series was Pichu.
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I love playing as G&W, but he certainly is a joke character. He is weird and has goofy attacks. He is great at what he does though: make everyone raise their eyebrows and laugh.
 
DisconnectD said:
Yep. That's why it always frustrated me so much when everyone would wave the banhammer around at Ike.

Most of the characters people want cut have almost totally unique movesets, too.

Ike-uniqe
Wolf-mostly uniqe
Lucas-mostly unique
Rob-totally uniqe
Lucario-totally unique

You would think Toon Link making the cut would shut all the cutists up but nope
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I don't want cuts, but I do consider Wolf and Lucas to be expendable. If anyone (besides Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur) are getting the axe for any reason, it's at least one of those two.

On the topic on Toon Link, I personally didn't doubt that Toon Link would return. The only surprise was that he was revealed so early on.

And it's not like a unique moveset gives a character immunity from being cut. Just ask Mewtwo.
 
As someone who played link and toon link to death, they're barely the same character.

The resemblances are more aesthetic than mechanical. They both have 'bow and arrow', but they behave differently. If toon link were an entirely different character, visually, no one would claim he's a clone. If you changed his bow into a gun, his boomerang into a tomahawk, his sword into a stick, his bomb into a rock, no one would say he's a clone, save for maybe his spin attack. But then, that's like calling mewtwo a samus clone, because they both have a charge shot.

All of this 'clone' talk is merely VISUAL, and definitely not mechanical.
 
TomShoe said:
Ganon, you may have a point. But Luigi? No chance, he's far too iconic.
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But he's more of a clone than Wolf/Lucas are.
Jab: Triple attack with right/left punch and finisher (kick for Mario, butt for Luigi)
F-Tilt: Roundhouse
D-tilt: Sweepkick
U-Tilt: Uppercut
F-Smash: Hand-based attack forward (a karate jab for Luigi, an exploding punch for Mario, but hey, we're reducing shit down to basics, so...)
D-Smash: Breakdance sweepkick
N-Air: Sex kick
F-Air: Forward punch/jab
B-Air: backward kick (this move is actually identical for both brothers in animation)
D-Air: spinning attack
U-Air: flip kick
Up B: super jump punch
B: fireball

This is more moves that Luigi shares with Mario than Wolf and Lucas do with Fox and Ness respectively (and that includes specials and Final Smash).
 
I do not know why you concider lucas to be expendable?

HIs game was pretty popular in his country of origin, and he was supposed to be in since melee.
A long with that, I dunno if Lucas came back , people would have a frame of reference if nintendo ever released mother 3 over here.
 
Forkball said:
I enjoyed playing as Ike and didn't mean to imply that he was a clone, but he's taking up precious Chrom/Lucina space.
qwerty_zps1a7b336a.jpg

I WANNA SEE THAT

And you answered your own question on ROB. He's so dull to play as or against. Mr. Game and Watch is already a good joke character.
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FE:A will be represented in SSB4. I'm 99% sure of that.
 
KHlover said:
What? Did you EVER play as Luigi? Him and Mario only "share" the Fire Ball and Recovery jump, all other moves are completely different. And even then Fire Ball and the Recovery jump work completely different for each of them.
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I'm not saying that the attributes of Luigi's moves are exactly the same as Mario's, however, people are saying Wolf and Lucas are clones of Fox and Ness, which is far from the truth - when in fact, in a move by move comparison, Luigi shares more moves with Mario than the other 2 do with their respective "bases".
 
Red Arremer said:
But he's more of a clone than Wolf/Lucas are.
Jab: Triple attack with right/left punch and finisher (kick for Mario, butt for Luigi)
F-Tilt: Roundhouse
D-tilt: Sweepkick
U-Tilt: Uppercut
F-Smash: Hand-based attack forward (a karate jab for Luigi, an exploding punch for Mario, but hey, we're reducing shit down to basics, so...)
D-Smash: Breakdance sweepkick
N-Air: Sex kick
F-Air: Forward punch/jab
B-Air: backward kick (this move is actually identical for both brothers in animation)
D-Air: spinning attack
U-Air: flip kick
Up B: super jump punch
B: fireball

This is more moves that Luigi shares with Mario than Wolf and Lucas do with Fox and Ness respectively (and that includes specials and Final Smash).
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I'm not talking about movesets, I'm talking about importance to a character's respective franchise. Luigi is a HUGE name in the Mario franchise. While he may be 2nd fiddle to his brother, Luigi is still several times more relevant than many of the characters in SSB4. He's had his own game series, and has been in more games than I can count. No doubt people would be calling for blood if they tried to axe Luigi. You think that same uproar would be caused over R.O.B.? I doubt it.
 
georly said:
What benefit is there to having them cut? Why do you WANT them gone? It's not like they were particularly annoying to fight.

Like neorice said earlier, the amount of work it would take to keep them is roughly 1/5th of the amount of work to make someone brand new. Granted, it takes even LESS work to cut them, but still. Other than mewtwo, we've had no unique characters ever cut. Cutting two more unique movesets out of smash would be unfortunate.

Can we think of any other pokemon or nintendo characters who could use (some or all of) squirtle/ivysaur's movesets? They don't even have to retain the 'water' or 'grass' properties, so long as the moves remain functionally intact.

I just hate losing unique abilities in smash bros :/
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Because their characters were extremely boring to play as and it was done entirely done wrong. And since they were baying the character off of Red then they better get it right and use Venusaur and Blastoise and boy their smaller Evo forms. I just personally despise the character as it's a waste for Pokémon. If he wanted to put Pokémon Trainer in there then he couldn't done it where they were fighting themselves. Since Pokémon aren't the only mode of fighting (using all source material from the Manga and Anime)
 
Forkball said:
ROB is unique, but he is not fun to play as.
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Subjective.

He's an annoying camping character with low mobility and weak finishing moves.
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Only if you play him that way. And he has plenty of powerful finishing moves.

I just want someone else.
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At the expense of the ROB fans/players. Personally, I would take absolutely no newcomer short of Ridley instead of ROB.

And he already had a Mario Kart appearance, when will his greed stop?!
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Oh Jesus Christ he made a cameo in a Mario Kart game, clearly he's got absolutely no rights to be in any other game anymore, better get some more obscure no-names like Mario or Link in there.

I love playing as G&W, but he certainly is a joke character. He is weird and has goofy attacks. He is great at what he does though: make everyone raise their eyebrows and laugh.
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All those attacks are directly taken from the Game & Watch games. That's the whole point of the character. He's supposed to be funny, yes, but he certainly isn't a joke character - joke characters are purposely made bad, like Pichu in Melee, or Dan in the SF series.

TomShoe said:
I'm not talking about movesets, I'm talking about importance to a character's respective franchise. Luigi is a HUGE name in the Mario franchise. While he may be 2nd fiddle to his brother, Luigi is still several times more relevant than many of the characters in SSB4. He's had his own game series, and has been in more games than I can count. No doubt people would be calling for blood if they tried to axe Luigi. You think that same uproar would be caused over R.O.B.? I doubt it.
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Wolf and Lucas also have big importance to their respective franchises, and without ROB we wouldn't even have this entire discussion. Just cause Luigi happens to be from a bigger franchise doesn't mean he's less of a clone than Falco or Toon Link.

georly said:
Everyone wanting cuts because characters are boring to them should feel bad :(

Those characters are fun for someone. You wanting them cut because YOU find them boring is pretty selfish. Just don't use them. Sakurai is bound to make more people UPSET than HAPPY by making a cut.

Things sakurai could do to characters that would make less than 5% of smash players upset:
  • Cut ganondorf's current movset. Make it something new.
  • Change final smashes so there are no 'clone' final smashes (falco, wolf, lucas, toon link)

That's about it. Anything else is likely to make people upset because they loved or mained that character.
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Agreed.

NotLiquid said:
That's the joke.
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You're a master of humor.
 
Everyone wanting cuts because characters are boring to them should feel bad :(

Those characters are fun for someone. You wanting them cut because YOU find them boring is pretty selfish. Just don't use them. Sakurai is bound to make more people UPSET than HAPPY by making a cut.

Things sakurai could do to characters that would make less than 5% of smash players upset:
  • Cut ganondorf's current movset. Make it something new.
  • Change final smashes so there are no 'clone' final smashes (falco, wolf, lucas, toon link)

That's about it. Anything else is likely to make people upset because they loved or mained that character.
 
Red Arremer said:
Wolf and Lucas also have big importance to their respective franchises, and without ROB we wouldn't even have this entire discussion. Just cause Luigi happens to be from a bigger franchise doesn't mean he's less of a clone than Falco or Toon Link.
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That's my point. Just how big are the Mother and Star Fox series nowadays? Neither of them has had a mainline game come out in nearly 8 years. We're not talking about relative importance here (Character to Franchise), we're talking about a character's importance to Nintendo as a whole. Of course you could justify Fox with the former, but Wolf falls in that grey area, IMO.

georly said:
snip.
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I agree with this, though I feel some people want characters cut because they want more newcomers (Chrom/Lucina, Palutena, Ridley, etc.), and feel that some of the lesser-known veterans are there "taking up space." I don't care for that level of turnover myself, but I feel that some cuts are bound to happen, whether we want them or not.
 
TomShoe said:
That's my point. Just how big are the Mother and Star Fox series nowadays? Neither of them has had a mainline game come out in nearly 8 years. We're not talking about relative importance here (Character to Franchise), we're talking about a character's importance to Nintendo as a whole. Of course you could justify Fox with the former, but Wolf falls in that grey area, IMO.
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So when did a character's importance to Nintendo as a whole become a criteria to be part of Smash Bros.? We got Snake, whose NES games were... questionable quality at best, and since then his entire series has never been on any Nintendo console (except for that one DS game). If it was about importance to Nintendo as a whole, one third of the roster would be Mario characters, one would be Zelda and one would be Pokemon.

This is absolutely no argument to cut a character, or say that they shouldn't be included.
 
Red Arremer said:
Game & Watch isn't a joke character. The only joke character we had in the entire series was Pichu.
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The Melee Dojo said that Jigglypuff originally had Pichu's "role" in the original game. So, she was meant to be a joke character originally. I think that she might have been weakened in Brawl exactly to take back that position again, although Sakurai hasn't confirmed that openly. However, the Brawl Dojo mentioned how she was overall weak, but had three saving graces, one of them her Final Smash, and another one of them, Rest, had been weakened compared to before, while talking about no boosts to her at all.

That's my point. Just how big are the Mother and Star Fox series nowadays? Neither of them has had a mainline game come out in nearly 8 years. We're not talking about relative importance here (Character to Franchise), we're talking about a character's importance to Nintendo as a whole. Of course you could justify Fox with the former, but Wolf falls in that grey area, IMO.
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Star Fox 64 had the relatively recent 3DS remake though. Of course, the new Smash seems to be ignoring it anyway...

I agree with this, though I feel some people want characters cut because they want more newcomers (Chrom/Lucina, Palutena, Ridley, etc.), and feel that some of the lesser-known veterans are there "taking up space." I don't care for that level of turnover myself, but I feel that some cuts are bound to happen, whether we want them or not.
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We know that the development of this game started by porting Brawl though. It's not just a matter of reusing design documents or something. By default, all Brawl characters were in the new Smash. Of course, they'd still require new work to fit alongside all the new assets of the new game...

We got Snake, whose NES games were... questionable quality at best, and since then his entire series has never been on any Nintendo console (except for that one DS game). If it was about importance to Nintendo as a whole, one third of the roster would be Mario characters, one would be Zelda and one would be Pokemon.
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Before Brawl, aside from the NES games, there was Twin Snakes and Ghost Babel (for the GBC, not DS). But, yes, he really doesn't have much Nintendo presence.
 
NeonZ said:
The Melee Dojo said that Jigglypuff originally had Pichu's "role" in the original game. So, she was meant to be a joke character originally. I think that she might have been weakened in Brawl exactly to take back that position again, although Sakurai hasn't confirmed that openly. However, the Brawl Dojo mentioned how she was overall weak, but had three saving graces, one of them her Final Smash, and another one of them, Rest, had been weakened compared to before, while talking about no boosts to her at all.
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Didn't know that about 64 Jiggs (even though she turned out to be good lol), but it sounds plausible to me.
 
georly said:
Those characters are fun for someone. You wanting them cut because YOU find them boring is pretty selfish. Just don't use them. Sakurai is bound to make more people UPSET than HAPPY by making a cut.
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Someone found Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario and Pichu fun. Every fighting game franchise has cuts. There is probably not a single fighting game franchise that has 3 or more entries that didn't at least cut one character. It's natural. The reality is there can only be so many characters, and adding old ones due to obligation stymies the possibilities of the new roster. Obviously a huge appeal of Smash is the Nintendo aesthetic, and people want to see as many Nintendo properties represented as possible, or new characters from already represented series. FALCO MUST DIE SO RIDLEY MAY LIVE.
 
Red Arremer said:
So when did a character's importance to Nintendo as a whole become a criteria to be part of Smash Bros.? We got Snake, whose NES games were... questionable quality at best, and since then his entire series has never been on any Nintendo console (except for that one DS game). If it was about importance to Nintendo as a whole, one third of the roster would be Mario characters, one would be Zelda and one would be Pokemon.

This is absolutely no argument to cut a character, or say that they shouldn't be included.
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It's just one criteria in an ever-changing list. R.O.B. and G&W are in Smash Bros, not only because of their importance in Nintendo's history, but also because they bring something new to the table that's never been done before, and the same could be said of any of the newcomers this time around. Luigi's no different. He has his own persona outside of being Mario's brother.

luigi_poltergust.jpg
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Third party characters don't play into this discussion, because they're just that, third party. They are added into Smash because of uniqueness of character and fan input, along with other qualities. I don't think Snake would have made it into Brawl if no one wanted him there.
 
TomShoe said:
I agree with this, though I feel some people want characters cut because they want more newcomers (Chrom/Lucina, Palutena, Ridley, etc.), and feel that some of the lesser-known veterans are there "taking up space." I don't care for that level of turnover myself, but I feel that some cuts are bound to happen, whether we want them or not.
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I understand that sentiment. They really want a character, and they think the best way their character can make it in is if room is made for them by cutting other characters. Since we don't know how development works for them, we can't know how true that is, though. As it's been pointed out before, though, it's much much less work for the team to update a veteran than it is to make a new character.

I think that any newcomers they want to add get added. I don't think they have a list of like... 10 newcomers and say "Well, if we want to add number 10, we need to cut so and so and so because we won't have time." I think if they have 10, they'll add 10. I think if they want to cut someone, they'll cut him because they want to, not because they don't have time. I think that given infinite time to make the game, they wouldn't just keep ADDING people in, they'd just do what they thought was right.
 
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