I don't know why you're driving this so hard...
Like this guy would honestly want a real relationship instead of someone completely submissive to his every thought and whim.
Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting
- Thread starter tehbible
- Start date
- Status
I don't know why you're driving this so hard...
Like this guy would honestly want a real relationship instead of someone completely submissive to his every thought and whim.
I'm sorry you're having a hard time in life. If you want to talk about it there are plenty of people on this board who will listen to what you're going through. But apologizing for racism, misogyny, and multiple-murder is not making you look like someone worthy of affection and empathy.
This desire to keep him out of the Mental Illness bucket beyond a twisted desire to have him not "taint" a high-status group is pretty screwed up. He can be a horrible person, a misogynist, and a person with severe mental health issue all at once.
I'm sure most of the people relating to the guy only means that on a simple level of being rejected and being a virgin, and the frustration with that. Everyone in this thread, at least, has qualified their statement of relating to him with saying he's also crazy and shouldn't have done what he did. Unless you're focusing on the internet crazies saying he's a hero or something. Those kind of people always show up on the internet after a mass murder. No doubt a mixture of trolls and a few legit crazy people.
People with mental disorders like this guy usually take valid emotions and crank them to 11 while twisting it into something evil. It's not surprising that certain people can relate to the basic emotions the guy had.
Yeah exactly.
Disagree.
I think introspection as actively avoided in that thread as well as others and reinforced by the constant "they don't realize how great of a person you really are" clime.
mugurumakensei
Member
Hell, he only thought of his dad's support in terms of money.
Incendiary
Banned
The guy clearly had extreme narcissistic personality disorder. The misogyny and racism probably grew from that, thinking he was the best and everyone else was inferior.
I don't think people are saying they identify with that, I think they're saying they identify with being depressed over not succeeding the way society tells us we should succeed. Media, societal, and peer pressures often make you feel less of a person if you aren't getting laid and being a hot shot with a nice car. Society in general promotes misogyny (or at least encourages men to think owning a woman is the ultimate goal in life). The best thing this incident could do is get Americans to reevaluate how warped our culture is in terms of how we view how we're supposed to be successful.
What's more likely to happen, though, is the opposite and the media will just make it worse by playing up the deranged virgin angle. Sigh.
Lie to people by saying that a relationship is going to fix all their problems brehs
No relationship by itself is going to undo a mental illness. I assume you're just being short in your response.
User 100115
Banned
I am going to give you a piece of advice that I hope you will take to heart.
EVERYONE feels lonely and rejected. Everyone goes through times in their lives where shit just isn't working for them. Being lonely and rejected isn't regulated to a small subset of the population. I'm a moderately attractive female and I was bullied for being ugly and didn't date at all during high school. On top of that, my childhood could have been the basis for a horror story. I'm talking actual physical torture and rape here.
I am not a crazy murdering asshole. In fact, I am generally considered to be super nice. Excusing or relating the behavior of this guy as understandable because he didn't get 'the girl' is disgusting. For gods sake, he threw coffee on women in a blind rage because they didn't smile at him. He never made an attempt at actually interacting with people. He expected them to fall at his feet, for nothing more than existing.
He wouldn't have a mental illness if he was part of the Taliban. Part of what he said was so misogynistic, it sounded like he was part of the Taliban. He was psycho
Prax
Member
He wasn't about having a partner though. I think he was just stupidly entitled and thought having a woman would raise his status in life.
The same happens with women, yes.
People are desperate, but some people are seduced with the idea that they DESERVE these things at any cost and romanticize their own struggle. And basically... don't do that.
There is not a lot others can do to actually correct someone's thinking if they are at the point that they deserve everything and the world is unjust particularly against them in this or that area.
So I think I "get it" (people WANT to have intimate connections in life, to be appreciated by people, to achieve what is considered paragons of human existence like love, legacy, etc.), but I also get that it's really foolish to frame it as the world is out to get them to the point that exacting "revenge" is the main self-righteous thrill. And I really hope you're not nurturing this in yourself too.
People don't just "control" their frustrations so they don't lash out (as I think that usually just leads to lashing out anyway). Most people actually channel it into different priorities, better themselves, or other constructive pursuits. I think the problem with this guy was that he didn't even understand or want to channel it into some place good. He was just obsessed with his own anger and revenge fantasy.
Well, I guess I mean to say the posters of whom I feel have the most helpful and sensible advice advocate introspection. Especially when the umpteenth poster comes in there with the tiring sob story of "I've tried everything: clothing, cars, working out, etc. it's not working guys I'm hopeless".
Same here. Exclude what he did in the end, and you have your average Internet misogony in caricature form.
No, you're talking about the straw men he constructed to justify his feelings. There's a big difference, and the more times you read about these types of killings the more you'll come to understand this.
But that guy never even made any real attempt to find someone. He never interacted with a woman aside from his mother, step-mother, sister and counselor. All of his plans were destined to fail and I'm sure he knew it.
The whole "women are not looking at me so the world is an horrible place" is something he built up in his head to put the blame on someone else. One big issue was his intense jealousy toward other normal and/or popular guys who were able to live a normal life while he couldn't because he was so socially messed-up. He was completely obsessed with being part of the cool kids and everything he's done was to achieve that goal (much more so than to get laid). Even his younger brother became an enemy because he was growing up to be a popular kid.
pigeon interrupted
Member
I've been trying to stay out of these threads. Too many. RIP to the victims and my thoughts are with their loved ones.
Same. It says a lot about our culture, our education system, objectification and persecution and how success is measured. Sad how victims and ex-victims of the same pressure self-propagate the same through group dynamics. I'm not even starting with how women are blamed for not living up to fantasy lore. And also blamed for trying.
I can see where the behaviour stems from in evolutionary sense; it is ubiquitous, clearly we haven't changed in many fundamental ways. Still brutish and delight sharing out pain or seeing our pain reflected (wtf is there no schadenfreude equivalent in eng). The same ancient and abusive coming of age rituals, dressed as rites of passage, glorified and passed down the generations. Dog eat dog.
Same. It says a lot about our culture, our education system, objectification and persecution and how success is measured. Sad how victims and ex-victims of the same pressure self-propagate the same through group dynamics. I'm not even starting with how women are blamed for not living up to fantasy lore. And also blamed for trying.
I can see where the behaviour stems from in evolutionary sense; it is ubiquitous, clearly we haven't changed in many fundamental ways. Still brutish and delight sharing out pain or seeing our pain reflected (wtf is there no schadenfreude equivalent in eng). The same ancient and abusive coming of age rituals, dressed as rites of passage, glorified and passed down the generations. Dog eat dog.
fredrancour
Member
I think we've just completely taken schadenfreude as a loan word at this point.
hahaha, fair enough
Beermeister
Banned
The guy had been investigated by police multiple times and seen psychiatrist multiple times... and he could still buy several guns legally?
I can't even... [...]
I can't even... [...]
NaughtyCalibur
Member
I'm 10 pages into this autobiography he wrote, and I gotta say he sounded like a perfectly normal kid. Only petty thing he did so far was exclude that one boy for being mean to him (which probably just means he didn't return a smile or something), but he was 5 so whatever. The fact that he found happiness living in the smaller house with his mom sharing a room with his sister after years of having a big ass house and room of his own tells me that he was more mature at the age of 7 than 22.
His writing is horrible though and I kinda just want to skip ahead to where things begin to go noticeably south.
His writing is horrible though and I kinda just want to skip ahead to where things begin to go noticeably south.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Comparing the on air suicide to Elliot is not the same. She didn't take her self loathing out on others.
The Internet is a large place. I'm sure you can find even more horrible stuff once you dive into TOR and the dark internet.
User 100115
Banned
I don't understand how that's supposed to prove that everyone is trolling.
I don't have time to read this whole manifesto, but are there any times when this guy legitimately and sincerely approached a girl and was rejected? It sounds like all this rejections he whines about are mostly imagined slights. "I can't believe those girls didn't smile back at me!" or "She gave me a bad look."
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I still feel that way. Difference is I'm not a narcissist, misogynist nor a murderer. Like it's been said, most people who have these feelings don't want to hurt people. I feel bad for the victims, their families and the family of the shooter. I can't even imagine what it's like for them now nor do I ever want to experience that.
BTW, love your Walter White avatar.
Profiling what? Virgins? I don't think that would happen. I'd be more concerned with profiling skinny, socially awkward white guys since I fall into that description.... and it's happened to me.
EdibleKnife
Member
From what it seems, just seeing a therapist isn't enough for a firearm refusal. He actually needed to be involuntarily institutionalized. His facade was good enough to keep him under people's radar.
Aren't you arguing for them to do exactly this?
fuckin seriously...
Can you be detected on tor? I don't know much about server technology. It seems like a relay node
our country is collectively insane and trying to discuss any kind of new limitations to firearm sales is completely impossible
The One Who Knocks
Member
I have gone through it quite thoroughly and unless my memory is failing me, no. The rejections he faced are, as you say, all (again, unless I'm missing some) imagined slights against him, ranging from people looking at his friends and not him, to girls bullying him, to insecurities about his height. He regularly engages in activities with the hope of acquiring women, but repeatedly comments that he is too afraid to actually approach them, in fear of them feeling he is "worthless".
This is the first actual 'rejection', but even then it's not something that he ever stated:
then there's:
EDIT: I'm in the process of posting some highlighted versions of the manifesto (given that it's hard, making notes and taking relevent points made it easier for me to search for components) but he goes into such detail that there are a huge amount of pertinent areas, as, given the level of obsession, it seems quite clear that many, many events haunted him, regardless of how significant they were. I'll try and get a few examples of what his slights consist of when it's done.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Ding ding ding. When your son with longstanding mental issues blocks out the windows and refuses to have ANY face to face conversations while living in the same house and will only communicate via email it's time to get him serious help.
Go in his room. Go through his shit and see what he's up to. Dude had detailed plans to go ballistic but no one saw them.
Incendiary
Banned
He had a secret crush in middle school and the girl laughed at him and made fun of him. Everything else (that I read at least) was 'how dare a hot girl make out with somebody inferior than me.'
pigeon interrupted
Member
Yeah. It's to the point and sounds appropriately pointed--English is basically a montage. C'est la vie ;(
DoktorEvil
Banned
You can't prove whether or not someone is.
You can start to arrest/institutionalize people who make nasty comments celebrating mass murderors or marginalize them on the internet at large and shame them, drag their names in the mud and splash their face all over the web, embarrassing them from making a nasty trolling comment again.
Neither are good or even valid solutions.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Dude should have just taken himself out. What a piece of shit.
NaughtyCalibur
Member
Ugh, I can't read any more of this crap he wrote. I just can't.
Let me know when there's a CliffNotes with highlights. Until then I'll let the psychologists analyze every page of this drivel to hopefully prevent something like this from happening as often as it does.
Let me know when there's a CliffNotes with highlights. Until then I'll let the psychologists analyze every page of this drivel to hopefully prevent something like this from happening as often as it does.
Yeah, this is where we need to have massive improvements in relation to gun control.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The saddest event of my life involved a person leaving a mental hospital and going right to a pawn shop to buy a gun to kill himself.
Warm Machine
Member
Lord no. You can't fix real mental illness with a relationship. You can lift someone up and out of a manufactured depression created by a lack of personal contact and communication. The relationship fills the hole that desperately needs filling. At least in my personal case it was true.
No one is saying arrest people for posts. People are suggesting that fuck it - why not take them seriously? Especially with all those that would be giving away all of the same signs in person anyways.
And calling someone out isn't always 'shaming' either. Someone telling you that you are wrong, whether its one person or the first 20 to see it, isn't shaming. Its a lot of people catching at once that you're wrong at the same time. Its okay to be wrong. It won't kill you.
Pyroclastic
Banned
the most disquieting thing about this is that it has put on me to this incel subculture, and someone, as so wonderfully exhibited in this blog
http://thatincelblogger.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/elliot-rodger-and-a-note-for-new-arrivals/
do take the time to read this thread that heavily features the same dude, it may be long but it reads like an absolute fever dream,
http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/142356/fucking-horrifying-documentary-about-26quot3Blove-shy26quot3B-dudes
highlights include asking his mum to have sex with him and wanting an age of consent of 12 for girls and nothing for boys.
I really didn't need this shit sloshing around in my sub conscious at a time when I'm trying to lose my vplates myself, but I'm determined to take any bitterness I've gotten as a result and be a person who goes on to have a happy and fulfilled life.
http://thatincelblogger.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/elliot-rodger-and-a-note-for-new-arrivals/
do take the time to read this thread that heavily features the same dude, it may be long but it reads like an absolute fever dream,
http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/142356/fucking-horrifying-documentary-about-26quot3Blove-shy26quot3B-dudes
highlights include asking his mum to have sex with him and wanting an age of consent of 12 for girls and nothing for boys.
I really didn't need this shit sloshing around in my sub conscious at a time when I'm trying to lose my vplates myself, but I'm determined to take any bitterness I've gotten as a result and be a person who goes on to have a happy and fulfilled life.
No one? I have a better troll radar than most (e.g. I immediately knew that Chad Warden was a farce, and I was only a teen at the time). Looking at the comments, I'd say there are at least a handful of real comments. And why would that be hard to believe? There are a lot of guys who think that western women are corrupted by feminism.
Also, the troll detection game has changed. If I had seen these videos earlier, I would've guessed for sure that the killer was like Chad Warden, mocking what he was purporting to be.
We're at a time when millions of people chose not to be in a relationship and prefer to live alone. It's not a forced situation, they chose to live this type of lifestyle. People have other priorities besides sex. But try telling a young guy that sex isn't that big of a deal and that relationships are not always great. They can't comprehend this because they grow up with this obsession about sex and start getting all hung up about it.
Divorce rates are at an all time high, and the amount of divorcee who chose not to marry again has never been higher. Trust me, relationships can be a big pain in the ass. It's not always nirvanna. This doesn't translate to young guys if they haven't experienced a relationship before. And even when it's a social situation where they're not so good with the ladies, guys can grow up living a full and happy life. It's not weird or unnatural, and it's certainly not uncommon to live without a sexual partner. It's definitely not the end of the world and it's certainly not worth getting all obsessed and psychopathic over. Perhaps that seems hard to understand, but it's true. Sex really isn't that big of a deal.
Divorce rates are at an all time high, and the amount of divorcee who chose not to marry again has never been higher. Trust me, relationships can be a big pain in the ass. It's not always nirvanna. This doesn't translate to young guys if they haven't experienced a relationship before. And even when it's a social situation where they're not so good with the ladies, guys can grow up living a full and happy life. It's not weird or unnatural, and it's certainly not uncommon to live without a sexual partner. It's definitely not the end of the world and it's certainly not worth getting all obsessed and psychopathic over. Perhaps that seems hard to understand, but it's true. Sex really isn't that big of a deal.
Mammoth Jones
Member
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked