Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting

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Ether_Snake said:
edit: Does he ever get caught for splashing drinks on people? It sounds to me like he might have made up some of that.
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He got chased by people after doing that a few times, and then he got the shit beat out of him after he tried to push girls off a 10-foot wall at a party in Isla Vista.

Instead, he got shoved off and broke his leg.
 
todd360 said:
Can you explain to me why what I said was creepy? I'm sorry if it was. I was just trying to say that I like black and brown hair color best. Its not important enough for me to turn down a girl if one were to ask me out is what I was trying to say. Rodger would probably see any girl without blonde hair as beneath him. That is pretty creepy.
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No not you, sorry, some people have preferences of course. I was referring to him and how he only wanted one look for a woman, based off of his own beliefs of what is the 'best'.

The rest of the words didn't get typed in, damn work computers!
 
patjburns89 said:
One of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten came from a girl who rejected me (and I'm still very close with on a platonic level):

"How can I love you if you don't even love yourself?"

I think about it at least once a week. It sounds so simple, but it's the truth.
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Yeah, it's hard to admit that maybe it's you that's the problem. Dude was convinced that the whole world was rooting for him to fail.
 
I think it's pure ignorance to say just about anything clearly misogynistic and hateful is merely "trolling." Even the so called "troll" who is spouting off these things and not truly believing them is doing it for some kind of satisfaction. But there are plenty of people who hate women and find pulpits and students willing to listen and nod to their horseshit. It's something that hasn't really been taken seriously. Women here, everywhere, have been scoffed at repeatedly as "paranoid" and "overreacting" about casual misogyny, sexism and invasion of their private space. Well, hope those of you constantly trying to silence women or deflect the conversation feel real proud of yourselves this week.
 
DY_nasty said:
Because they lived with him and it was pretty clear that he hated them. That was clearly targeted and planned. You're talking about actual shooting on campus though? There's not a lock-on feature for that kind of thing.
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It's more that there's a narrative of "Guy gets influenced by Miosogynist sites online, goes and kills lots of women", when what occurred appears to be more complicated, and originated internally. The misogyny is definitely there and a big part, but there are other hugely problematic things going on as well.
 
I will say that one good thing has come out of this. For a while now, my natural impulse towards sociable extroverts was to be judgemental. I assumed that they were shallow and self-centered, even though my rational side told me that I didn't know this. And despite having the ability to be fairly extroverted myself, I started to abstain from socializing, out of spite for these people.

In this killer's videos, I saw some of myself. I thought my approach to socializing was noble, yet what I was seeing was pathetic. I thought long and hard about whether my views had any basis in reality, and I came to the conclusion that they only did in extreme, rare cases. I have resolved to be warm and friendly. I don't want to be a misanthrope anymore.
 
Devolution said:
I think it's pure ignorance to say just about anything clearly misogynistic and hateful is merely "trolling." Even the so called "troll" who is spouting off these things and not truly believing them is doing it for some kind of satisfaction. But there are plenty of people who hate women and find pulpits and students willing to listen and nod to their horseshit. It's something that hasn't really been taken seriously. Women here, everywhere, have been scoffed at repeatedly as "paranoid" and "overreacting" about casual misogyny, sexism and invasion of their private space. Well, hope those of you constantly trying to silence women or deflect the conversation feel real proud of yourselves this week.
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This is (sadly) a very valid point. Cause this isn't just one guy. There are ALOT of dudes that really do believe they are entitled to a woman. And they explode when they get rejected/denied.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
This is (sadly) a very valid point. Cause this isn't just one guy. There are ALOT of dudes that really do believe they are entitled to a woman. And they explode when they get rejected/denied.
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Aye. Guys lash out against women who reject them all the time. It's just that this was on a larger scale.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
This is (sadly) a very valid point. Cause this isn't just one guy. There are ALOT of dudes that really do believe they are entitled to a woman. And they explode when they get rejected/denied.
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And the people trying to dismiss the hate for women this guy exhibited are perpetuating that 'stop being paranoid, lighten up' reaction to misogyny everywhere.
 
kirblar said:
It's more that there's a narrative of "Guy gets influenced by Miosogynist sites online, goes and kills lots of women", when what occurred appears to be more complicated, and originated internally. The misogyny is definitely there and a big part, but there are other hugely problematic things going on as well.
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....

That was probably the biggest thing that pushed to him to this, aside from his mental issues. He planned to kill his roommates and he did. That's much, much simpler than driving out to a crowded setting and picking off every woman with blonde hair and blue eyes with precision. That's not how it works in ANY mass cas event.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
This is (sadly) a very valid point. Cause this isn't just one guy. There are ALOT of dudes that really do believe they are entitled to a woman. And they explode when they get rejected/denied.
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Most of the women I know who've even bothered to read some of the excerpts in that manifesto seriously see the same rhetoric that was spewed at them by a scorned man. I know I did. It sends chills down your spine.
 
Toparaman said:
I will say that one good thing has come out of this. For a while now, my natural impulse towards sociable extroverts was to be judgemental. I assumed that they were shallow and self-centered, even though my rational side told me that I didn't know this. And despite having the ability to be fairly extroverted myself, I started to abstain from socializing, out of spite for these people.

In this killer's videos, I saw some of myself. I thought my approach to socializing was noble, yet what I was seeing was pathetic. I thought long and hard about whether my views had any basis in reality, and I came to the conclusion that they only did in extreme, rare cases. I have resolved to be warm and friendly. I don't want to be a misanthrope anymore.
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I do believe society places too much emphasis on people being extroverted, because we are all different individuals and a lot of people just don't operate that way. Social media can also twist the image, because you only see the cheery side in people : They smile, have a lot of contacts and so on.

It's good to hear that you've done some soul searching and have a positive outlook in general!
 
Devolution said:
I think it's pure ignorance to say just about anything clearly misogynistic and hateful is merely "trolling." Even the so called "troll" who is spouting off these things and not truly believing them is doing it for some kind of satisfaction. But there are plenty of people who hate women and find pulpits and students willing to listen and nod to their horseshit. It's something that hasn't really been taken seriously. Women here, everywhere, have been scoffed at repeatedly as "paranoid" and "overreacting" about casual misogyny, sexism and invasion of their private space. Well, hope those of you constantly trying to silence women or deflect the conversation feel real proud of yourselves this week.
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God yes, you always say what I am thinking. :')
 
ICKE said:
I do believe society places too much emphasis on people being extroverted, because we are all different individuals and a lot of people just don't operate that way. Social media can also twist the image, because you only see the cheery side in people : They smile, have a lot of contacts and so on.

It's good to hear that you've done some soul searching and have a positive outlook in general!
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Very true.

I wonder if this guy's life might have turned out differently if he grew up somewhere outside the bubble of wealthy Southern California.

It seems like his parents and step-mother were very preoccupied with status and appearance, and that obviously caused him to obsess over it as well.
 
Devolution said:
Most of the women I know who've even bothered to read some of the excerpts in that manifesto seriously see the same rhetoric that was spewed at them by a scorned man. I know I did. It sends chills down your spine.
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Honestly I've known this type of entitlement existed but rarely read a first hand account of this lunacy. It's disturbing to say the least.
 
DY_nasty said:
....

That was probably the biggest thing that pushed to him to this, aside from his mental issues. He planned to kill his roommates and he did. That's much, much simpler than driving out to a crowded setting and picking off every woman with blonde hair and blue eyes with precision. That's not how it works in ANY mass cas event.
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His mental issues lie at the root. They lead into the misogyny, which based on what we've seen of his writings doesn't appear to have needed ANY outside forces to take hold in his head. That's where the pushback is coming from on that angle- that the gigantic a-hole idiots online were influencing him/pushing him to do this. He didn't need their help or encouragement, from what we're seeing. He got there just fine on his own.

Using this as a springboard to discuss issues of misogyny, violence against women, etc- that's definitely a good thing to do in the wake of this horrible event. It's just that we don't need to try and make him a "creation" of the internet in order to do it.

I really do hope people start to realize that those "rape jokes" people were posting about in the last few days aren't jokes. Saying "I'd do him/her"? That's normal. Saying you'd rape them is not.
 
Aesius said:
Very true.

I wonder if this guy's life might have turned out differently if he grew up somewhere outside the bubble of wealthy Southern California.

It seems like his parents and step-mother were very preoccupied with status and appearance, and that obviously caused him to obsess over it as well.
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Yeah. But then I think about how he had every resource in the world to get help there and still denied it.
 
Toparaman said:
I will say that one good thing has come out of this. For a while now, my natural impulse towards sociable extroverts was to be judgemental. I assumed that they were shallow and self-centered, even though my rational side told me that I didn't know this. And despite having the ability to be fairly extroverted myself, I started to abstain from socializing, out of spite for these people.

In this killer's videos, I saw some of myself. I thought my approach to socializing was noble, yet what I was seeing was pathetic. I thought long and hard about whether my views had any basis in reality, and I came to the conclusion that they only did in extreme, rare cases. I have resolved to be warm and friendly. I don't want to be a misanthrope anymore.
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Glad to hear the change of heart. The would can use less negative angst and hate.

I wish you good luck in your future endeavors.

Remember, you don't have to be someone you're not. Love yourself, and everything else falls into place.
 
Devolution said:
Thanks. And I'm sorry you had to undergo some real shitbirds in your life. (read your post earlier about that jackass, think it was you.)
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Thank you. Those experiences made me more paranoid and less trusting unfortunately, the horrible truth is that a shit load of women have experienced this kind of guy and that is just in and of itself a horrible fact.

Fiction has also had some seriously horrible shit happen.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Honestly I've known this type of entitlement existed but rarely read a first hand account of this lunacy. It's disturbing to say the least.
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Well when we open up about it we're constantly dismissed as whining, and "no big deal."

Hell the thread about the coworker talking about raping his fellow employee, what was that met with?

"Oh it's just a joke, stop overreacting."

Maybe it's time to stop thinking that reacting negatively to these statements and actions isn't an overreaction and some people just aren't sensitive enough to how they create, mostly unknowingly, the atmosphere that allows people to think that kind of ugliness is fine.

Don't get him fired. Don't make him learn that's completely inappropriate and there is a problem with that mode of thinking.

Fucking ridiculous.
 
There's an upsetting undertone to this news that shows some men didn't listen to this stuff when it came from women, but now they're paying attention since they can directly relate to and read about the man's story. I've seen Devo and Fiction explain all of this stuff in every similar thread, and only now are some people like "okay, maybe we believe you."
 
Fiction said:
Yes, several of his victims were male. But if you read his manifesto, you know that everything he wrote was because of his hatred of women. Yes, he was jealous of the men that were with the women as well, but he wasn't wanting to lock them in concentration camps and starve them to death.
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But he didn't enact the concentration camp idea. Nor was he able (or ever likely) to actually "slaughter every blonde slut" he saw. I think the media are playing solely to women's fears in a somewhat unhelpful way over these killings. His hatred of women was just one (though major) issue at play here.

That said, some of the online reaction and misogyny over this is sickening.
 
kirblar said:
His mental issues lie at the root. They lead into the misogyny, which based on what we've seen of his writings doesn't appear to have needed ANY outside forces to take hold in his head. That's where the pushback is coming from on that angle- that the gigantic a-hole idiots online were influencing him/pushing him to do this. He didn't need their help or encouragement, from what we're seeing. He got there just fine on his own.

Using this as a springboard to discuss issues of misogyny, violence against women, etc- that's definitely a good thing to do in the wake of this horrible event. It's just that we don't need to try and make him a "creation" of the internet in order to do it.
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They didn't push him to shoot up a campus. They just validated his bullshit - and that happens all over the place on the internet now that people communicate their insecurities there instead of at churches and cookouts like they did 50 years ago. Not all mental issues lead into this spiral. The way that they're handled can though. Its undeniable that it was easier and more comfortable/convenient for him to get his 'support' through the internet instead of with a counselor.

Now, yes, mental health is a very serious thing but not everyone in this country or any is privileged enough to even be aware of such a thing. So where do they go? More people have access to the internet than the truly adequate mental health care. You say that his mental illness led to misogyny but in reality anyone with a hole in their head can have it filled with whatever garbage happens to fall in and fit. And validation just cements it in. He absolutely got that reinforcement by people either agreeing with his 'trolling' or by 'trolling' by agreeing. (btw, fuck this guy by thinking he was above his medication too but that's another rant)

He's not the first or the last mentally unstable person who cooked on the internet til he did something. Its damn near common between killers now.
 
http://thatincelblogger.wordpress.com/2014/02/

("the fatal one" is this guy's first girlfriend)

FACT 10- TODAY I AM GENUINELY SORRY FOR NOT KILLING THE FATAL ONE
That’s correct. After experiencing even worse disasters than the one with her (which was already huge enough) today I am extremely sorry for not killing her and myself. It would save me and probably the world a lot of pain. In all honesty, if I were to want to harm anybody now the whole scene of killing her would look like a scene from a Dysney movie in comparison. But all this is due to the fact that I’ve not received proper help – and by proper help I don’t mean psychiatry.
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It's just jokes on the internet
 
kirblar said:
His mental issues lie at the root. They lead into the misogyny, which based on what we've seen of his writings doesn't appear to have needed ANY outside forces to take hold in his head. That's where the pushback is coming from on that angle- that the gigantic a-hole idiots online were influencing him/pushing him to do this. He didn't need their help or encouragement, from what we're seeing. He got there just fine on his own.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_polarization
 
Devolution said:
Well when we open up about it we're constantly dismissed as whining, and "no big deal."

Hell the thread about the coworker talking about raping his fellow employee, what was that met with?

"Oh it's just a joke, stop overreacting."

Maybe it's time to stop thinking that reacting negatively to these statements and actions isn't an overreaction and some people just aren't sensitive enough to how they create, mostly unknowingly, the atmosphere that allows people to think that kind of ugliness is fine.

Don't get him fired. Don't make him learn that's completely inappropriate and there is a problem with that mode of thinking.

Fucking ridiculous.
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Wait, that was a reaction to a thread here? Ugh..wtf.

I completely agree with what you're saying. Awareness that this shit isn't cool is key. I was under the assumption the vast majority of people understood this. But shit, maybe we need a refresher course....

Karkador said:
http://thatincelblogger.wordpress.com/2014/02/

("the fatal one" is this guy's first girlfriend)



It's just jokes on the internet
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Why isn't there a way to contact the police with this shit?
 
Devolution said:
Well when we open up about it we're constantly dismissed as whining, and "no big deal."

Hell the thread about the coworker talking about raping his fellow employee, what was that met with?

"Oh it's just a joke, stop overreacting."

Maybe it's time to stop thinking that reacting negatively to these statements and actions isn't an overreaction and some people just aren't sensitive enough to how they create, mostly unknowingly, the atmosphere that allows people to think that kind of ugliness is fine.

Don't get him fired. Don't make him learn that's completely inappropriate and there is a problem with that mode of thinking.

Fucking ridiculous.
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Yep, I didn't click on the thread when I saw it because I knew it would be full of disgusting and dismissive responses, just like any thread that discusses issues in the gaming side.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Wait, that was a reaction to a thread here? Ugh..wtf.

I completely agree with what you're saying. Awareness that this shit isn't cool is key. I was under the assumption the vast majority of people understood this. But shit, maybe we need a refresher course....



Why isn't there a way to contact the police with this shit?
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Yep.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=824539

That thread sure made me feel safe being a woman, boy let me tell you.
 
Does anyone know where the figure of 7 dead comes from? Most reports use that figure but only mention the three people who were shot and the three who were stabbed at the apartment?
 
Does anyone think that sex as an advertisement in various mediums, having been crammed down our throats for decades, contribute to the problem of the youth spiraling towards depression and loneliness because they haven't been able to get a girlfriend?

Elliot was an extreme case, but there are many nonviolent youth out there who fit that criteria. It would seem like the imagery of sex in mediums and friends teasing a guy for not having had sex yet would lead to people feeling inadequate. Personally, I feel like sex is not the be-all, end-all achievement in life. If you're being productive in other avenues in your life, be it, schooling, work, or hobbies, then sex isn't a big deal.
 
animlboogy said:
It doesn't matter to most people. You can show them thousands of acts of racism or sexism and it will all be waved away as an exception, or trolling. It doesn't matter that I hear legitimate racism every time I play CounterStrike for more than 20 minutes. It doesn't matter that "nigger" is one of the more common words used on every single forum online that lacks moderation.
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Kareem Abdul-Jabbar recently said the truth: "More whites believe in ghosts than believe in racism."
 
Alotsi said:
Does anyone think that sex as an advertisement in various mediums, having been crammed down our throats for decades, contribute to the problem of the youth spiraling towards depression and loneliness because they haven't been able to get a girlfriend?

Elliot was an extreme case, but there are many nonviolent youth out there who fit that criteria. It would seem like the imagery of sex in mediums and friends teasing a guy for not having had sex yet would lead to people feeling inadequate. Personally, I feel like sex is not the be-all, end-all achievement in life. If you're being productive in other avenues in your life, be it, schooling, work, or hobbies, then sex isn't a big deal.
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There's a documentary out there right now that tackles that imagery issue it's called Miss Representation, and how the media pushes objectification of women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZYpAuUzDhU
 
Alotsi said:
Does anyone think that sex as an advertisement in various mediums, having been crammed down our throats for decades, contribute to the problem of the youth spiraling towards depression and loneliness because they haven't been able to get a girlfriend?

.
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Indeed and its really affecting society. I haven't had a GF in like four years and many people around me are starting to say I might be gay. Its getting really annoying and depressing me, its like their forcing me to get a gf and get laid on the spot so I can prove them otherwise and we all know desperations is not the way to attract someone, so it becomes a vicious cycle.
 
KingJolly said:
Indeed and its really affecting society. I haven't had a GF in like four years and many people around me are starting to say I might be gay. Its getting really annoying and depressing me, its like their forcing me to get a gf and get laid on the spot so I can prove them otherwise and we all know desperations is not the way to attract someone, so it becomes a vicious cycle.
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get a new crowd
 
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