Mammoth Jones
Member
Which is their plan.
It's why they mail shit to the media just before they go on a rampage.
It's why they post shit on youtube.
They want to be immortal. They want to be remembered.
How I wish we didn't give that to them.
Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting
- Thread starter tehbible
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Which is their plan.
It's why they mail shit to the media just before they go on a rampage.
It's why they post shit on youtube.
They want to be immortal. They want to be remembered.
How I wish we didn't give that to them.
I'm about 30 pages in and plan to read it all. I've always been fascinated by this stuff.
I think it's more complex than that. Infact, I'm of the opinion he had some heightened sense of awareness, more than most children his age, which was half the problem. He was overthinking and analysing stuff at 9 and 10 years old, and already interpreting social cues in an unhealthy manner.
But like someone said, perhaps there is a little bit of revisionism here. I guess it's likely some artistic license was used to maximise his narrative.
There's a lot more to mental illness than hallucinations and mood swings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
Indeed, it is by relating case studies to social issues and how these social issues caused disorders to be developed that makes case studies actually useful for psychology.
It is by applying psychology to environmental factors that psychology can be useful on a larger scale. How society manifests the symptoms of disorder and forms disorders is more important to study and analyze than diagnosis with little thought on why the disorders manifested the way they did.
To say he was motivated by "mental illness", a simple declaration of fact, is a step up from the ancient claims of demonic possession and such. However, mental illness is still a broad topic and mental healthcare reform is in a large way rooted in social psychology, which is in my opinion the most useful and most applicable to real life approach to psychological thinking. Focus must be given to how disorder is expressed and formed.
To focus on mental illness in a vacuum is unrealistic, and while useful for the gathering of general knowledge, disregards the salient nature of mental illness and the effect social factors have in an interconnected world.
This is what pisses me off most about his whole ranting, self-pitying, "WOE IS ME" diatribe. The guy had an upbringing that most of us could only dream about. He had famous parents, came from a wealthy background, and didn't suffer any parental abuse growing up. He had everything in life served up to him on a silver platter, and he STILL had the audacity to behave like he was the victim? Outrageous.
I have the same feelings. The guy was truly a psychopath and I totally understand everyone wanting to know more about him, but it just seems to fuel the fire for these type of people.
I live where this happened and it really shows it can happen anywhere, as it so often always does...
I think it's dangerous to dismiss the relatability of some of his frustrations and just paint him as a unrequited monster.
I think most would relate to some of his feelings of rejection, his frustration in forming relationships with people he deemed worthy, and even the 'how the fuck did he get her' frustrations.
What I find most fascinating is the bridge he constructed in his mind between those quite normal feelings of envy and lust and the murderous intent.
I think most would relate to some of his feelings of rejection, his frustration in forming relationships with people he deemed worthy, and even the 'how the fuck did he get her' frustrations.
What I find most fascinating is the bridge he constructed in his mind between those quite normal feelings of envy and lust and the murderous intent.
Opinionatedfish
Member
Is there a place to find that 140+ page manifesto that isn't on that nonsense ScribD website?
I want to be able to download it as a PDF and I can't. :-/ I find ScribD distasteful.
EDIT: Never mind. I found a place to download it in PDF or ePUB format.
Can we talk about how The Land Before Time has such a legacy of violence? :-( I love that movie. I wish it wasn't related to such tragic things.
I want to be able to download it as a PDF and I can't. :-/ I find ScribD distasteful.
EDIT: Never mind. I found a place to download it in PDF or ePUB format.
Can we talk about how The Land Before Time has such a legacy of violence? :-( I love that movie. I wish it wasn't related to such tragic things.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
He's not bad looking... good looking, even.
I am a bit surprised since he is not the usual, typical kind of person I am imagining having difficulties forming a relationship with women, actually---I mean, appearance wise.
Clearly he has much larger issues mentally compared to physically.
I am a bit surprised since he is not the usual, typical kind of person I am imagining having difficulties forming a relationship with women, actually---I mean, appearance wise.
Clearly he has much larger issues mentally compared to physically.
hydragonwarrior
Member
This is the scary part - and I'm going to assume he had unlimited access to any number of bizarre online forums out there that could shape his opinions quickly at such a young age (there's plenty of f'd up forums out there that could really corrupt some minds)
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I think being 135lbs had something to do with it. He felt weak. He looked like a boy among men.
Yeah. I agree with this.
I guess my point is, I don't think misogyny was projected on him by society, but rather the result of his own inability to attract women. It wasn't the 'cause' it was the 'effect'.
Your assessment of it,is kind of how I see it though as well.
This seems to make some sense, but I'm not sure it entirely fits Rodgers. The problem is we/re talking about a person who has clear mental issues and looks at the world in quite a delusional way.
Didn't he originally plan to kill his brother and step-mom simply because his stepmother had supposed to have said his brother would become successful before him and lose his virginity before him? As someone else said earlier in the thread, that probably didn't happen, his stepmother probably just complimented his brother and he took it as an dig against him.
The point is, his reaction to things growing up always seems to be widely disproportionate to the things he was reacting to. I'm not sure it would matter what is was.
m_shortpants
Member
I skimmed it just now - it's very disturbing. It's clear that he was seriously disturbed and mentally unstable. It's crazy how much he was obsessed with sex and his virginity. He blamed everyone else for his lack of a meaningful relationship when in reality it's clear why people would be turned away from him.
I mean, in his manifesto, he even plans to kill his own brother because he's more socially "successful". The guy was seriously seriously disturbed.
He also planned to kill his roomates, and then "lure" people into his apartment to torture them. I mean, holy shit.
I wonder what would have happened if he had actually ever gotten into a relationship, and then inevitably broken up with a girl. I wonder how that would have affected him.
I've read up more on this thread, and this guy seems to fit the criteria for Delusional Disorder. Heightened sense of self, oversensitive, self affirmation and logically constructed beliefs... it's all there.
I mean, it's clear that he's obviously delusional about certain things, but his delusions are definitely pathological.
Anyhow, I'll leave a link to Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder
I mean, it's clear that he's obviously delusional about certain things, but his delusions are definitely pathological.
Anyhow, I'll leave a link to Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder
We've known about the Werther effect for several hundred years now.
The more media coverage there is, the more copycats will soring up. This type of suicidal behavior IS contagious.
TrickyDaddy
Banned
Obvious that he had anger issues as well.
Just read the part where he went to the party a few days before his 22nd birthday to give the world "a one last chance" and ended up getting his ass kicked.
I mean, the guy was enraged and jealous of the girls and the guys there that he started to insult them at their own party. Then right after, he tried to push the girls off the 10 foot ledge. Which didn't go so well, since the guys pushed him off instead, breaking his left ankle.
Later when he got his ass kicked for coming back to the party to find his stolen stuff, he expected other girls to help him out of the situation that he rashly got himself into initially by trying to push people off the ledge.
He could've just chilled, relaxed, sipped on some beer, played a little beer pong, started some conversations with other people, but instead he threw insults at them. What the fuck did you expect? For someone his age, he's not very smart.
Just read the part where he went to the party a few days before his 22nd birthday to give the world "a one last chance" and ended up getting his ass kicked.
I mean, the guy was enraged and jealous of the girls and the guys there that he started to insult them at their own party. Then right after, he tried to push the girls off the 10 foot ledge. Which didn't go so well, since the guys pushed him off instead, breaking his left ankle.
Later when he got his ass kicked for coming back to the party to find his stolen stuff, he expected other girls to help him out of the situation that he rashly got himself into initially by trying to push people off the ledge.
He could've just chilled, relaxed, sipped on some beer, played a little beer pong, started some conversations with other people, but instead he threw insults at them. What the fuck did you expect? For someone his age, he's not very smart.
Actually what is he delusional about? He has some magical thinking but it is not delusion, there is a difference.
Example of delusion - a lady at work who always was a bit off imagined that her/our boss in in love with her and just is too shy to confess to her, divorced her husband and started stalking him, harassing his wife, etc.
It was bad.
I mean, you could say that his grandiose sense of entitlement was delusional but it's a stretch, IMHO.
On a second thought, towards the end he does get quite grandiose so you probably could call him delusional.
m_shortpants
Member
I wonder if he had considered online dating or something. I question whether someone so disturbed could maintain a relationship, but it may have helped him.
The problem with this though was he felt that girls should have flocked to him because he was a 'gentleman' and he drove a BMW.
m_shortpants
Member
I don't think it was just sex. I think it was any meaningful relationships. He could have paid for sex if it was just sex, or tried POF or something.
I'm the same weight and just a little taller than the dude and I've never had an issue with getting girls.
you can still have positive self-esteem as a smaller man.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I honestly think he probably would've ended up killing whatever woman he ended up with for some imagined slight. Like thinking she was cheating on him, not satisfying him enough, etc.
Like the idea to "get him a prostitute", I can't imagine that not ending up with her dead.
I don't think this guy could ever maintain a solid romantic relationship. At the very least I think he could've perhaps had a solid group of friends, or a support home, that kept him from harming himself and others, but I couldn't see him getting married.
I post rarely on the Misc BB.com. It is the worst forum i've seen thus far. This isn't the first nor last Murder/suicide that will happen because of the Misc. They live in a fantasy world based on "reps" and "being alpha." Steroid abuse is rampant on forum. They also like to beat the women.
They all have the same "SS" haircut. The SS are NAZI special forces. The class themselves into "crews" There is a crew that wears nothing but Sperry's and Polo, a crew for "Automatic rifles". There are more sinister crews like the "Forever alone crew" The shooter was a high ranking official if this crew, the rest of the members are not too far off either.
They all have the same "SS" haircut. The SS are NAZI special forces. The class themselves into "crews" There is a crew that wears nothing but Sperry's and Polo, a crew for "Automatic rifles". There are more sinister crews like the "Forever alone crew" The shooter was a high ranking official if this crew, the rest of the members are not too far off either.
Me. I started out skimming it, but I went back and reread it all.
His life is really easy to relate to at the start, with a few sprinkles of rich kid problems. Then the bitterness starts to engulf his writing as he gets closer to the present day. He almost never mentions his sister. He perceives slights coming from completely innocuous actions. He starts to blaming himself, then his family, then his friends, then all woman, then society as a whole. Everyone who was having sex was against him. He lives a life dictated by pop culture: movies and video games. Waiting for his love interest to pop up, waiting to win the lottery because obviously life is fair and it's all been leading up to that point.
Also he got the date Halo 3 came out wrong.
Fascinating stuff.
Well, he was kind of delusional in what he felt he 'deserved', and delusional in his own self-importance and grandeur.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Come one, even girls with supermodel looks can be with guys who aren't lookers, and not because of money. Saying he set the bar too high is silly, this guy was clearly a sociopath. It was girls for now, but that was just one wall ahead of others he would have hit after breaking through this one.
Telephoto999
Member
Is this a joke post? The misc is probably the most entertaining forum on the Internet aside from neogaf.
I see what you did there.
Good one. Good joke. That's funny haha
That wasn't what I was saying. I could see it was turning into a discussion about misogyny within society. Like it was something that was projected on him by society.
I just don't think that was the reason for his misogyny.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
No doubt about it but this guy couldn't let it go. Everywhere he went he felt his inadequacies looking right back at him. He simply could not get beyond it and he only wanted extremely attractive women which he believed, whether wrongly or not, were only attracted to chiseled tall muscular blonde men.
The people going on about mental illness seem to be conveniently ignoring that social and cultural factors can have a huge effect on how mental illnesses actually form and how people with mental illnesses percieve (or don't percieve) their issues and relate to the world.
It just seems like it's a deflection tactic to avoid talking about our toxic misogynist culture which helps to create these people.
It just seems like it's a deflection tactic to avoid talking about our toxic misogynist culture which helps to create these people.
Well, this is a matter of opinion. Maybe people aren't using it as a deflection tactic, but rather it is their own opinion. You seem to come at it with the notion that your argument is evidently true.
My opinion on it is that his underlying mental problems mental problems were such that he would have found other reasons to kill people if not his rejection from women.
His gripe. while being aimed towards women primarily. was also aimed at the 'popular kids' who were having fun while he was lonely and suffering.
Certainly a lot of work to be done but a few points.
Murder-suicides like this one are VERY rare considering a) how many people with mental illness we have and b) how many guns we have around. This guy is a huge, huge outlier.
Also, if modern West is "toxic and misogynist" then what do you call many other societies. What is your frame of reference, some kind of ideal Start Trek society? Sure there is plenty of work to be done but your description seems hyperbolic to me.
Religion, politics, etc. This guy is perfect terrorist material.
Read his manifesto and replace a few things and you will get the ranting of a religious fanatic.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
I have a "hot blonde" gf and I am Mexican. Guess this asshole would have wanted to throw hot coffee on me. I know my gf gets checked out, happens when we are together but this is a psychopathic level that is disturbing. Been watching the developments of this story seeing what else motivated this dude.
Well, yes. It is delusional to suppose that you are owed sex (or a relationship; the exact nature of what is owed is less important than the idea that one is entitled to it). But simply saying the equivalent of, "He was mentally ill and it doesn't matter what made him like this exactly; he would have blown anything out of proportion" seems to be little more than a way to avoid talking about the particular manifestation of mental illness in this case. And I see that often in topics where people identify with some aspect of a murderer's identity, political or ideological leanings, or whatever, but it's particularly noticeable in this topic because of how widespread those feelings are.
And for what it's worth - and I think it's worth a lot - the mentally ill are not more prone to violence than those who are not. There's simply no evidence for the assertion; something like 96% of mental patients do not have violent tendencies.
This is a great post, particularly the bolded. You can't separate his mental illness from the social context in which it arose, and in this case that includes looking at his misogynist attitudes.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I am now reading his, what'd you call it, manifesto? Up to the 8 years old part.
Man, apart from his parents divorcing the kid had *everything* in this world.
Man, apart from his parents divorcing the kid had *everything* in this world.
Here's the thing, though - the guy is such an outlier that you will be hard pressed to generalize his behavior to any particular trigger. 99.999999% of misogynists do not commit mass murder.
Aesius
Member
He seems to actually have some self-awareness about that in his writing, but you can tell he doesn't quite grasp the advantages he had growing up.
His childhood, other than his parent's divorce, seems unbelievably charmed.
Well, we're not talking about all cases of mental illness of course, we're talking about this case. And I'm sure there were various motivations that led him to kill people, I just think his underlying mental problems influenced the way he came to the conclusions he did. He had a history of mental problems in which he was receiving therapy.
Reading through his forum posts and manifesto, you get picture of someone who would react in an extremely disproportionate way to whatever triggered the reaction. He plotted to kill his brother and stepmother, as I already mentioned.
Despite his underlying mental problems, his motivations were clear: He was extremely depressed by living in a state of complete loneliness. Not only was he rejected by women, he had no real friends. He became very obsessive about forming a relationship, perhaps exasperated by his own autistic tendencies.
I just think his misogynistic views were simply a reaction to his own frustrations trying to form a relationship with the opposite sex. In his own mind he was the perfect gentleman who would prove he is worthy of their affection. The fact that women didn't see that upset him. He couldn't understand why they couldn't see it. I'm not really sure it is a misogynistic culture within society that was simply toxic to him, it was simply being in a situation that he couldn't solve,
Air Zombie Meat
Member
He mentioned those guys in his manifesto. Considered them to be pathetic nerds that he wouldn't ever want to befriend because he wouldn't get anything out of it.
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