Support NeoGAF

[BassForever]

F-Zero's rep shouldn't be Captain Falcon after all you don't even have to race as him in F-Zero or F-Zero X

<_<

She isn't; it would be Celes.

Y'all are so funny with your self-imposed rules on what makes a deserving representative. You realize they're all in your head, right?

Did you play either Dissidia game? Celes isn't in either of them, Terra is though

 

[Berordn]

She isn't; it would be Celes.

The majority of the game revolves around the discovery and understanding of Terra's origins and powers. Her arc isn't resolved until the end of the story.

Celes's ends when she fails to kill herself and decides to take it out on Kefka instead.

 

[georly]

She isn't; it would be Celes.

Y'all are so funny with your self-imposed rules on what makes a deserving representative. You realize they're all in your head, right?

Final Fantasy 6 had no PRIMARY protagonist, for sure, but looking at how SQUARE themselves feel about it should be an indication. Terra is the only playable protagonist in Dissidia, a game where both Cecil AND Kain are playable, as well as Squall AND Laguna. If SQUARE didn't think celes was worthy, why would anyone else?


At this point, I can't tell if you're trolling or not. While sakurai doesn't follow many patterns, at least every time a game franchise is represented in smash bros, it includes the main character or icon of the series.

 

[justchris]

Characters I would be absolutely floored to see:

Mona from WarioWare
Captain Syrup from WarioLand
Adelaide from Kirby
Ridley as playable cause I really don't think it'll happen.
Any Wars character.
Any Square-Enix character.

 

[MagiusNecros]

FF6 has no main character. Terra and Celes have the most prominence.

Dissidia is a poor example. And locks Terra in I hate myself mode for the duration of the game.

 

[munchie64]

The thing is guys, we're not talking about a game where the main character (or even if there is one) is as debatable as FF6.

 

[RomanceDawn]

That makes sense. I don't have much online fighting game experience haha. I might try it that way, especially if unlockables are tied to it.

Yeah listen to him. I tried playing Brawl single player to really feel out the game and get good before going online. By the time I did all my regular friends quit because it stunk and the strangers that were left always kicked my butt. It was such an uphill battle getting good with DK and Bowser.

This time, unless Ridley and Dixie are in the game as unlockable I'm just going straight to the online to battle real life people.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The thing is guys, we're not talking about a game where the main character (or even if there is one) is as debatable as FF6.

For all purposes Shulk unfortunately is the main character. Even if Dunban is more powerful then the final boss.

 

[Moondrop]

Did you play either Dissidia game? Celes isn't in either of them, Terra is though

No. But what occurred in a sequel many years later has no bearing on my feelings for a 20 year old game I played on an original cart.

The majority of the game revolves around the discovery and understanding of Terra's origins and powers. Her arc isn't resolved until the end of the story.

Celes's ends when she fails to kill herself and decides to take it out on Kefka instead.

Have you played the game? That's not at all how I would describe the "majority of the game." Perhaps the majority of the first half. Are you aware that in the second half,

Spoiler

the new protagonist Celes attempts to recruit Terra to join the fight against Kefka and she refuses; Terra is unplayable for a large portion of the game.

At this point, I can't tell if you're trolling or not. While sakurai doesn't follow many patterns, at least every time a game franchise is represented in smash bros, it includes the main character or icon of the series.

Points on which I am utterly sincere:
1) Every other playable character in Xenoblade would make a better Smash character than Shulk
2) Celes would make a better Smash character than Terra (unless Terra had Magitek armor)
3) The "rules" for what makes a character deserving of being a Smash representative do not exist, no matter how deeply you parse previous rosters.

 

[Beelzebufo]

F-Zero's rep shouldn't be Captain Falcon after all you don't even have to race as him in F-Zero or F-Zero X
<_<
Did you play either Dissidia game? Celes isn't in either of them, Terra is though

Biorex would be really cool though.

 

[munchie64]

For all purposes Shulk unfortunately is the main character. Even if Dunban is more powerful then the final boss.

Yeah. Plus the guys original argument had nothing to do with who the main character was anyway. It was the completely unsubstantiated idea that main characters aren't given priority as series representations.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Shulk can be added. Final Smash is Chain Attack. All party members use their Special Art and kick ass.

Done.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Points on which I am utterly sincere:
1) Every other playable character in Xenoblade would make a better Smash character than Shulk

Clearly this entirely subjective opinion of yours is more important than the fact that main characters are always the first to be put in Smash before any side characters in a franchise. Or the fact that Main characters classify as all stars more so than side characters

 

[DaBoss]

The "rules" for what makes a character deserving of being a Smash representative do not exist, no matter how deeply you parse previous rosters.

You would have to be ignoring everything regarding all of the characters in Smash (except Pokemon) to say that Sakurai doesn't choose the protagonists of a series first before adding a secondary character.

There are lots of dumb self-imposed rules like too many sword characters, but series'/game's protagonist is not one of them.

 

[Aaronrules380]

You would have to be ignoring everything regarding all of the characters in Smash (except Pokemon) to say that Sakurai doesn't choose the protagonists of a series first before adding a secondary character.

Even in Pokemon, Pikachu was clearly the mascot of the franchise and the trainers were really never the stars over the pokemon

 

[Berordn]

Have you played the game? That's not at all how I would describe the "majority of the game." Perhaps the majority of the first half. Are you aware that in the second half,

Spoiler

the new protagonist Celes attempts to recruit Terra to join the fight against Kefka and she refuses; Terra is unplayable for a large portion of the game.

Multiple times. It's very much Terra's story. Celes's prominence falls to the wayside the moment you reach the mainland in the World of Destruction. At that point her own arc is basically finished and you're just dealing with the fallout of every other character's story, and more time than that is spent dealing with Terra's desire to find purpose in the world and Setzer's past.

Celes's own story is basically finished that that point. The moment you get the Falcon you can drop her and nothing changes.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

1) Every other playable character in Xenoblade would make a better Smash character than Shulk.

Why? We've already established that Shulk is the face of Xenoblade. Is it just because he isn't that interesting of a character, while the supporting cast is more interesting? That may be true, but it's not a reason against his being on the roster. If lack of personality was a reason to reject a character, then half the Brawl roster would be cut (G&W, ROB, Ice Climbers, Ness, etc.)

 

[DaBoss]

They're gonna announce the winner today for the 'Super Smash Bros. People's Challenger Contest'.

https://www.facebook.com/2241731377...6.1073741830.224173137756374/282867578553596/

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

Captain&#9733;Rainbow
Bayonetta
Palutena
Impa
bring it!

 

[MagiusNecros]

They're gonna announce the winner today for the 'Super Smash Bros. People's Challenger Contest' today.

https://www.facebook.com/2241731377...6.1073741830.224173137756374/282867578553596/

They should show their Mii and reveal it as a character.

 

[Tathanen]

It's so nuts to me that so many people in here assume the Gematsu "leak" isn't just a load of horseshit. Yeah, I know, Villager and WFT were unlikely guesses. Still aint enough to give them the level of credibility people are givin em here.

 

[Moondrop]

Clearly this entirely subjective opinion of yours is more important than the fact that main characters are always the first to be put in Smash before any side characters in a franchise

You would have to be ignoring everything regarding all of the characters in Smash (except Pokemon) to say that Sakurai doesn't choose the protagonists of a series first before adding a secondary character.

Smash 64: Pikachu and Jigglypuff introduced
Melee: Marth and Roy introduced
So there you have two previous examples where the protagonist was not introduced before adding a secondary character.

You can accuse me of picking apart your semantics, but it goes to my point that y'all are just making up these rules. They aren't written on whiteboard at HAL. Anything could happen.

 

[munchie64]

They're gonna announce the winner today for the 'Super Smash Bros. People's Challenger Contest'.

https://www.facebook.com/2241731377...6.1073741830.224173137756374/282867578553596/

Well that was quick. I hope it's someone good!

 

[MagiusNecros]

It's so nuts to me that so many people in here assume the Gematsu "leak" isn't just a load of horseshit. Yeah, I know, Villager and WFT were unlikely guesses. Still aint enough to give them the level of credibility people are givin em here.

Rumors are always false until proven true. That is the logic to go by.

 

[Lunar15]

It's so nuts to me that so many people in here assume the Gematsu "leak" isn't just a load of horseshit. Yeah, I know, Villager and WFT were unlikely guesses. Still aint enough to give them the level of credibility people are givin em here.

Just as weird as people who still think that the Palutena screenshot was real just because we can't yet prove that it's false.

Rumors should be taken as false until proven true, not the other way around.

 

[Ryce]

The "rules" for what makes a character deserving of being a Smash representative do not exist, no matter how deeply you parse previous rosters.

It's not a "rule" -- it's just common sense. 100% of the franchises with a playable character in Smash Bros. are represented foremost by their main character/mascot (or the closest thing they have to one). Xenoblade is essentially "The Monado Story," which is most famously wielded by Shulk, the uncontested protagonist of the game. Like it or not, Shulk is the face of Xenoblade, not some side character who may or may not be "cooler" or "more powerful" or whatever. None of that matters.

I thought it was bad that people genuinely believed Tom Nook would be playable over the Villager, but this takes the cake tenfold.

Smash 64: Pikachu and Jigglypuff introduced
Melee: Marth and Roy introduced
So there you have two previous examples where the protagonist was not introduced before adding a secondary character.

Uh, Marth and Roy are the protagonists of their respective games, just as Shulk is the protagonist of Xenoblade. Am I missing something?

 

[theprodigy]

Smash 64: Pikachu and Jigglypuff introduced
Melee: Marth and Roy introduced
So there you have two previous examples where the protagonist was not introduced before adding a secondary character.

You can accuse me of picking apart your semantics, but it goes to my point that y'all are just making up these rules. They aren't written on whiteboard at HAL. Anything could happen.

let's see
Pikachu is the series mascot, so Puff being added doesn't violate anything
Marth and Roy are BOTH the main lords of their respective games, so I have no idea where you're going with this

 

[Shadow Hog]

Clean:

Also, to summarize this entire conversation:

Although it is reminding me that I really need to finish Xenoblade (I'm at

Spoiler

Central Arsenal

presently).

*looks at username*
well isn't that ironic

She Hulk is the best character from Xeroblade, though.

 

[SmithnCo]

It's so nuts to me that so many people in here assume the Gematsu "leak" isn't just a load of horseshit. Yeah, I know, Villager and WFT were unlikely guesses. Still aint enough to give them the level of credibility people are givin em here.

I'm doubtful about the second leak, but the first has held true so far. Just Mii and Pac-Man to go, both of which are pretty obvious chocies.

 

[munchie64]

Smash 64: Pikachu and Jigglypuff introduced
Melee: Marth and Roy introduced
So there you have two previous examples where the protagonist was not introduced before adding a secondary character.

You can accuse me of picking apart your semantics, but it goes to my point that y'all are just making up these rules. They aren't written on whiteboard at HAL. Anything could happen.

So you're saying Shulk AND another Xenoblade character are getting in?

Spoiler

Also isn't Roy a main character for his game?

 

[DisconnectD]

I hope "[player] is free on a steam sale" becomes standard Smash tournament commentary from here on out

Fucking hilarious, alberto

 

[Aaronrules380]

Smash 64: Pikachu and Jigglypuff introduced
Melee: Marth and Roy introduced
So there you have two previous examples where the protagonist was not introduced before adding a secondary character.

You can accuse me of picking apart your semantics, but it goes to my point that y'all are just making up these rules. They aren't written on whiteboard at HAL. Anything could happen.

Marth is the protagonist, and the face of Fire Emblem. Roy is also the protagonist of his game. Pikachu is the face of pokemon. far more so than Red, and at the time of the original smash it probably wasn't even possible to make the pokemon trainer work.

 

[DaBoss]

Pic for those who can't see:

Smash 64: Pikachu and Jigglypuff introduced
Melee: Marth and Roy introduced
So there you have two previous examples where the protagonist was not introduced before adding a secondary character.

You can accuse me of picking apart your semantics, but it goes to my point that y'all are just making up these rules. They aren't written on whiteboard at HAL. Anything could happen.

I said "except Pokemon" cause that is a series where the protagonists are not the main important characters and is not comparable at all. Marth is the protagonist of the first Fire Emblem game (and some others later on) and Roy was the protagonist of the upcoming GBA Fire Emblem game at the time.

So you have given 0 examples so far.

It's so nuts to me that so many people in here assume the Gematsu "leak" isn't just a load of horseshit. Yeah, I know, Villager and WFT were unlikely guesses. Still aint enough to give them the level of credibility people are givin em here.

Yea, there should be skepticism with them, but some people will treat them as facts.

I feel as though the first one is likely to be true given 4 of them have been confirmed so far. The second one is still up in the air.

 

[Berordn]

Spoiler

Also isn't Roy a main character for his game?

Roy's a main character and the primary lord in Binding Blade, Marth's the main character of multiple games (and their remakes where applicable).

 

[justchris]

FF6 has no main character. Terra and Celes have the most prominence.

Locke is the main character of FF6. This has always been the case. The story is told from his perspective. He is not the most important character to the story, but he is the main protagonist the way the game is written.

-

As far as the Gaf tournament, you do realize For Fun/For Glory are four online matches against randoms? For the Gaf tourney, we'll have to either hope the game has a built in tournament mode, or we'll need to exchange NNIDs for the matchups.

-

I plan to download the 3DS version and buy the Wii U version retail, although I'm kind of hoping for a Smash Bros 3DSLL release.

 

[georly]

It's so nuts to me that so many people in here assume the Gematsu "leak" isn't just a load of horseshit. Yeah, I know, Villager and WFT were unlikely guesses. Still aint enough to give them the level of credibility people are givin em here.

Rumors are always false until proven true. That is the logic to go by.

There are two reasons everyone buys into it. 1. He made some initial unlikely predictions that came true. 2. The rest sounds reasonable and follows existing newcomer patterns (protagonist from a beloved RPG. New fire emblem rep from most recent game. More characters from sakurai developed games. That 'weird' one that makes people go 'what the hell? what game is that from?') There's precedence that makes all of the picks make sense.

BECAUSE it's so predictable and makes sense, I really want it to be proven false. It's my one E3 hope. I want sakurai to surprise me. I want many of those characters to make it in (palutena especially), but I also want the 'Rosalina', the character that WASN'T on the list.

 

[Shadow Hog]

So you're saying Shulk AND another Xenoblade character are getting in?

Spoiler

Also isn't Roy a main character for his game?

Shulk and Riki (because the only new non-human character we have so far is Greninja, and Nopon are pretty iconic).

Alternatively, Shulk and Melia (because magic users are surprisingly scarce in Smash).

Or Shulk and Reyn (because any and all time is Reyn Time).

 

[Hot Coldman]

I hope "[player] is free on a steam sale" becomes standard Smash tournament commentary from here on out

Steam sales and Gamestop trades.

 

[Hypemaster]

But he has the Monado (and by extension, the most varied and unique moveset) and he is the main character.

Your argument is weak and illogical.

This.

They can do a variety of moves with shulk based on the monado in smash, and personality has nothing to do with it.

 

[Moondrop]

Locke is the main character of FF6. This has always been the case. The story is told from his perspective. He is not the most important character to the story, but he is the main protagonist the way the game is written.

Locke for Smash4!

Seriously, I'm not here to troll you guys. I want to play with y'all after release. I'm just so confused when I see people excited about the possibility of Shulk. I'll stop now.

 

[munchie64]

There are two reasons everyone buys into it. 1. He made some initial unlikely predictions that came true. 2. The rest sounds reasonable and follows existing newcomer patterns (protagonist from a beloved RPG. New fire emblem rep from most recent game. More characters from sakurai developed games. That 'weird' one that makes people go 'what the hell? what game is that from?') There's precedence that makes all of the picks make sense.

BECAUSE it's so predictable and makes sense, I really want it to be proven false. It's my one E3 hope. I want sakurai to surprise me. I want many of those characters to make it in (palutena especially), but I also want the 'Rosalina', the character that WASN'T on the list.

Dixie Kong: Believe.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Here's what I need for a perfect roster

Palutena
Tingle
King Hippo
King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Takamaru
Ridley
Andy
Captain Syrup

Literally done. Smash Bros. would be officially "complete" once all nine of those characters appear.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Locke for Smash4!

Seriously, I'm not here to troll you guys. I want to play with y'all after release. I'm just so confused when I see people excited about the possibility of Shulk. I'll stop now.

Because we want a Xenoblade rep and are sane enough to realize nobody else from the game is getting in before him. Whether you like other characters in the game better is entirely subjective and irrelevant (And the same thing could be said for Fire Emblem)

 

[ffdgh]

Celes's ends when she fails to kill herself and decides to take it out on Kefka instead.

How could you let cid die? D:

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Wait who is the non-protagonist between Marth and Roy

 

[Berordn]

How could you let cid die? D:

fuck those fish, man

Spoiler

I think the story actually works out better with him dying anyway. Her motivation to find Locke works well as a catalyst to get the rest of the ball rolling and without that the reveal of the raft is just... flat. plus I CRY EVRY TIME

 

[DisconnectD]

...if any of you play at McDonald's and I wind up playing your laggy, jittery ass then I am going to nuke your house. There are good public APs out there but McDonald's usually isn't one of them....

Lmao. I can see it happening quite a bit. Prepare the nukes, boys!

 

[georly]

Here's what I need for a perfect roster

Palutena
Tingle
King Hippo
King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Takamaru
Ridley
Andy
Captain Syrup

Literally done. Smash Bros. would be officially "complete" once all nine of those characters appear.

Make King Hippo an assist trophy, along with eggplant wizard, and dr. wily
Add Simon Belmont

My life is complete.
Captain N as a bonus.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Make King Hippo an assist trophy, along with eggplant wizard, and dr. wily
Add Simon Belmont

My life is complete.
Captain N as a bonus.

No AT ;_; Need King Hippo to add to the villains roster and the big characters roster!

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

Locke for Smash4!

Seriously, I'm not here to troll you guys. I want to play with y'all after release. I'm just so confused when I see people excited about the possibility of Shulk. I'll stop now.

I'll use another example that applies to me.

I wanted Wonder Red to be playable in Smash 4 before he was shown as a trophy. This is not because he's the most interesting character in The Wonderful 101, because he isn't (I prefer Wonder Blue, Wonder Pink, and Wonder Yellow, at any rate), but because character representation would include Wonder Red or no one from that game. And character representation means works along with that: a stage, multiple pieces of music, collectible trophies, maybe an Assist Trophy, and so on.

It's not one-to-one example, since a Wonderful 100 character would be possible under different circumstances, but they're comparable.

That'll be my only word in this conversation.