demosthenes
Member
I think it's pretty risky, I'll just be extremely upset that I'll probably drink away my sorrow and do something dumb like eat my shoe.
Hollywood Reporter: Edgar Wright just left Ant-Man
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
- Status
I think it's pretty risky, I'll just be extremely upset that I'll probably drink away my sorrow and do something dumb like eat my shoe.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It's Firefly without B-movie tier talent and a $160m+ budget. Aka Star Wars.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think your second quote is closer to true than the first one is.
It's not that risky. It's not a SAFE bet (and the Hollywood Reporter article mentions that Guardians is the movie that has them a little worried) but it's not the unknown quantity people love to paint it as.
I think it's highly unlikely the film will splat-pack at the box-office. It might not clear 200 mil domestic, but I don't know if that's the bar we wanna hold this movie to, finanicially.
edit: Well, if it cost 160, then yeah, it's going to need to clear 200 mil.
It's not that risky. It's not a SAFE bet (and the Hollywood Reporter article mentions that Guardians is the movie that has them a little worried) but it's not the unknown quantity people love to paint it as.
I think it's highly unlikely the film will splat-pack at the box-office. It might not clear 200 mil domestic, but I don't know if that's the bar we wanna hold this movie to, finanicially.
edit: Well, if it cost 160, then yeah, it's going to need to clear 200 mil.
Father_Brain
Banned
GotG is pretty far outside Marvel's own MCU comfort zone, less so for blockbuster cinema in general. I think that's fair.
...on the other hand, I can't really think of any successful space operas in recent years, outside the Star Wars and Star Trek franchises.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If they make Guardians look like a blend of Firefly and The Fifth Element, they're in.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
FYI I guessed $160m. That's the standard for these $30m-looking Marvel tentpoles. On my phone so can't check.
Yeah, the only part of THR's story that I find it hard to believe is that Feige was the one pulling weight here. This is the same guy who worked with Wright for eight years on the story, shuffled around the studio's franchise plans to accommodate that vision, and even delayed production twice to schedule around Wright. Now suddenly, weeks before shooting is going to begin, he has issues with the script?
This is also the same guy who fought with upper management on doing solo movies first and have them culminate in Avengers rather than the other way around, which is what the higher execs wanted.
I really find it hard to believe that the same man here is now suddenly upending the whole thing because Wright's script is too out there or whatever. It'd make plenty more sense if the culpability was on some other bigwig who would have only relatively recently seen any script.
Messypandas
Member
The script was probably too British for them, "Packet o' crisps guv'nor" Whats that?
I think it's clear that Guardians' tracking is not going according to plan for those rewrite to happen.
Father_Brain
Banned
That's certainly a possibility, I suppose. :/
It's really upsetting that things like these have to happen. Edgar Wright is one of my favorite directors of all time and perhaps the only one who could ever sell me on the concept of Ant-Man. He's made some of my absolute favorite comedies and understands how to drive a comedic angle through visuals which so many others fail to do.
Similarly, even though it's easier to single out Marvel Studios since they are a business first and foremost, they've come out with some of my absolute favorite movies of all time. Sure, they may not be "groundbreaking" cinema, but they are almost all the time "smart" and damn good cinema. They know how to make the best of the material they have and how to employ their talents to a degree that honors the material they want to adapt while still allowing that material to go beyond what was possible in mere comic book form. It's still amazing to me how they pulled off actually doing The Avengers, and now Guardians of the Galaxy is coming which looks every bit as good as the concepts of the source material allows it to be.
After all the stages of denial really settle I feel James Gunn put it the best in his response. I don't think there's any grand mapping of this situation that will side in favor for one party more than the other because there's no denying that these two factions are really damn good at what they do, and they've amassed a strong, extremely dedicated following because of what they do. It's less the fact that we're not getting the end product and more that they are being at odds to begin with. It really does suck that Wright never got to fulfill his dream project, and I don't think it was any more easier for Feige considering how fully supportive he was of Wright through all these years and Wright's extremely personal choice to delay Ant-Man in favor of The World's End. It's really just easier for me to admit that despite all of this being such a good sounding thing on paper, maybe the two just never really were cut out for each other and this is the best decision so they can go on and do what they do best.
I just wish it didn't take 8 years for this house of cards to crumble.
Similarly, even though it's easier to single out Marvel Studios since they are a business first and foremost, they've come out with some of my absolute favorite movies of all time. Sure, they may not be "groundbreaking" cinema, but they are almost all the time "smart" and damn good cinema. They know how to make the best of the material they have and how to employ their talents to a degree that honors the material they want to adapt while still allowing that material to go beyond what was possible in mere comic book form. It's still amazing to me how they pulled off actually doing The Avengers, and now Guardians of the Galaxy is coming which looks every bit as good as the concepts of the source material allows it to be.
After all the stages of denial really settle I feel James Gunn put it the best in his response. I don't think there's any grand mapping of this situation that will side in favor for one party more than the other because there's no denying that these two factions are really damn good at what they do, and they've amassed a strong, extremely dedicated following because of what they do. It's less the fact that we're not getting the end product and more that they are being at odds to begin with. It really does suck that Wright never got to fulfill his dream project, and I don't think it was any more easier for Feige considering how fully supportive he was of Wright through all these years and Wright's extremely personal choice to delay Ant-Man in favor of The World's End. It's really just easier for me to admit that despite all of this being such a good sounding thing on paper, maybe the two just never really were cut out for each other and this is the best decision so they can go on and do what they do best.
I just wish it didn't take 8 years for this house of cards to crumble.
just because you can describe it by utilizing preexisting IPs doesn't make it a known quantity. Heck, even within the geek community it is an unknown IP
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So was Men in Black.
What the "geek community" in general knows about the entertainment industry is pretty often borked to shit, anyway
It's a "known quantity" in that it's a group of smartasses on a spaceship in charge of getting in trouble. This is not an out-of-bounds concept for an audience to wrap their heads around. Talking animals and walking trees aren't so outlandish, either.
It's only an "unknown quantity" when you confine it solely to the realm of superheroes. But as a sci-fi adventure on its own? It's not that weird looking or off-putting.
edit: To be clear - I really want to see it, and I'm pretty sure it's going to be fun as hell. I just don't think it's THAT original. But then again - so what if it's not that original? So long as it's GOOD.
The key word is suddenly. It's been under development for 8 years and the shooting date is weeks away.
I don't understand how an Ant-Man movie could be more risky than a GotG movie based on the properties alone. I guess you could compare Wright's and Gunn's style of filmmaking... but it doesn't help considering we won't ever really know what Wright's Ant-Man would've been like anyway. Regardless, it sounds a lot like revisionist history in here trying to hold up this idea that Marvel hasn't been taking risks.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Feige keeps Marvel running like a TV show? Whoa...
First off, he's been developing this for 8 years and it's right about to shoot. Weeks?
Also are we really pretending that he's Stanley Kubrick now? He made a bunch of fun buddy comedies. I enjoy his stuff but this is getting a little over the top. I mean, they literally used the word auteur to describe him. Barf. He's never even entered into the conversation for an academy award.
Do you even know what auteur means?
The Heist Movie set-up is pretty unusual for a company that has a pretty solid pattern of "THIRD ACT ACTION FEST" going on.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nobody's said that, though.
I've said the risks aren't THAT BIG, but I never said they weren't risks. They're just managed risks.
Which is sorta what the crux of this thread is about: Apparently managing the Ant-Man risk led to Edgar Wright walking.
So was Men in Black.
What the "geek community" in general knows about the entertainment industry is pretty often borked to shit, anyway
It's a "known quantity" in that it's a group of smartasses on a spaceship in charge of getting in trouble. This is not an out-of-bounds concept for an audience to wrap their heads around. Talking animals and walking trees aren't so outlandish, either.
It's only an "unknown quantity" when you confine it solely to the realm of superheroes. But as a sci-fi adventure on its own? It's not that weird looking or off-putting.
edit: To be clear - I really want to see it, and I'm pretty sure it's going to be fun as hell. I just don't think it's THAT original. But then again - so what if it's not that original? So long as it's GOOD.
you know if go by your standards most things wouldn't be original, because they can be reduced down to an elevator pitch which utilizes known quantities.
someone who gives Sculli a raging boner.
While I agree with you that the premise is a bit different, by all accounts, every major Edgar Wright movie ends with an action fest in the third act, including Shaun of the Dead which was mostly a romcom drama that happened to have zombies in it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
well... no shit.
Most things AREN'T original, man. Again, original doesn't matter as much so long as what's being made is GOOD. I'll watch a good riff on something already existing, and enjoy it way more than an original turd that fell way short of it's potential.
Originality isn't necessarily a positive. It can make something good even BETTER due to the newness of it all. But originality in and of itself isn't necessarily an automatic win.
This is something I'm sure most superhero fans have internalized at some point - otherwise they wouldn't still be superhero fans.
Certainly doesn't seem that way, lol. Wright has an incredibly distinct touch to his movies.
Still upset about this, could have been the most interesting Marvel movie in some time, and apparently it was at least conceptually interesting; taking risks is more fun.
Will still anticipate Wright's next film greatly, Ant-Man is as good as dead to me.
Hopefully Guardians and Avengers 2 turn out nicely.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Are you trying to be funny? Because it isn't working. Kind of like your "insightful" post in ever Marvel Movie thread.
Why go back two pages to respond to one of my posts and then igore the follow-up I made a few posts after that?
For what it's worth, I still still think the text of the HR article is cringe-worthy.
demosthenes
Member
What kind of tracking can they do this far away? Social media mentions?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Wait wait, neogaf thinks GotG isn't going to bomb? really? Thing is going to crash and burn.
alfredofroylan
Member
Studios do a lot of bussiness aside from movies; action figures, t-shirts, happy meal toys, product placement, videogames, etc.
man, looks like I ruffled the feathers of someone with "exalted taste" and "insight".
Messypandas
Member
Why is it dropping in August? Last comic book movie that dropped in August was...
SCOTT PILGRIM
Disney marketing, you'd be a fool to underestimate it.
demosthenes
Member
Not exactly a lot of competition this August.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
August action movie releases, 2013:
2 Guns
Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters
Elysium
Kick-Ass 2
The World's End
Getaway
August action movie releases, 2012:
Total Recall
Bourne Legacy
Expendables 2
Hit and Run
Premium Rush
August action movie releases, 2011:
Rise of the Planet of the Apes
30 Minutes or Less
Conan
Fright Night (I know this one is iffy-ish, but it had some solid action in it)
Columbiana
August action movie releases, 2010:
The Other Guys
Scott Pilgrim
The Expendables
August isn't the greatest month for an action movie recently, you're right. But there's been a few surprises in there. Betting they're hoping for something closer to "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" in terms of box-office & word of mouth than anything
2 Guns
Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters
Elysium
Kick-Ass 2
The World's End
Getaway
August action movie releases, 2012:
Total Recall
Bourne Legacy
Expendables 2
Hit and Run
Premium Rush
August action movie releases, 2011:
Rise of the Planet of the Apes
30 Minutes or Less
Conan
Fright Night (I know this one is iffy-ish, but it had some solid action in it)
Columbiana
August action movie releases, 2010:
The Other Guys
Scott Pilgrim
The Expendables
August isn't the greatest month for an action movie recently, you're right. But there's been a few surprises in there. Betting they're hoping for something closer to "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" in terms of box-office & word of mouth than anything
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Ok?
The raccoon is going to be a huge hit with kids. Imagine the happy meals. Imagine Arby's with a side of batista. It's going to be glorious!
Mighty Chin
Banned
I'm shocked that Marvel is even continuing to make movies. It's clear Fox/Sony/WB are way ahead. Time to pack it up.
Thor made $450 million in the box office. Thor.
Guardians of the Galaxy is infinitely more marketable than he is in concept and keeps getting the buzzwords "from the studio that made The Avengers" on almost every promotional piece, which is to say nothing of the similar team-up premise, except it's in space. With a talking raccoon who loves guns. And Vin Diesel being a fucking tree.
The chance of this movie bombing is as low as Edgar Wright deciding to backpedal on his choice and make Ant-Man the way Marvel wants him to.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
They're ahead in the quality and diversity of their output. For every Webb there's a Raimi. For every Rattner or Vaughn there's a Singer. Snyder, Nolan.
Marvel is leading the box office though, I just don't know if that's what we ought to be cheering for. I don't know what the C in MCU stands for.
Secret Fawful
Member
You're calling Snyder more cinematic than Branagh or Johnston?
I would rather watch Andy Warhol's Empire ten times in a row than sit through a movie by Snyder. I'm not joking.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I'm saying Snyder's comic book films seem to have a single, distinct vision, unlike Thor or that hodge podge piece of shit that is the first Cap that some keep trying to convince themselves is The Rocketeer.
Secret Fawful
Member
Call me after Man of Steel 2 and 3....sorry, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Justice League come out.
My number is 1-800-BULLSHIT.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Not sure if you understand what hodge-podge means if you think that's how Cap 1 looks.
It's a pretty unified tone and visual language Johnston is using. It's Spielberg's. Specifically, the era of Spielberg in which Joe Johnston was working for the man.
I don't know if this example is actually serving your point, though. Sucker Punch is absolutely an example of him only being as strong as his screenplay precisely BECAUSE he wrote that screenplay.
Dawn of the Dead & Watchmen are still his best films, and it's no surprise they're also the best scripts he's had to work with, too.
lol joe johnston. That guy has zero redeemable qualities. And Branagh's invisible work on Thor is proof that it doesn't matter who Mahvel hires.
How many films do you think those studios really have ahead of Marvel? You could say you hated Iron Man 2, or Thor, or Hulk, but those studios have classics like Green Lantern, Spider-Man 3, and X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Even in terms of critical darlings, each studio really has roughly the same amount of outstanding movies. (Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2, X2, Iron Man, etc.)
I'm not trying to call you out specifically, but for as much criticism that Marvel gets on their movie continuity, all three opposing studios are planning on doing the exact same thing with their properties, with records that are just as hit or miss if not worse.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I thought we were talking about the quality of the filmmakers, not the quality of the executives hiring those filmmakers.
No they're not. DC is going to make a Justice League movie and spin single superheroes out of that (maybe - they might just keep making Justice League movies and rotate heroes in and out). Fox is making X-Men movies and Fantastic Four movies, and neither the twain shall crossover. Sony is trying to build a universe out of Spidey villains, but even then, they're starting with a team-up, and then spinning single films out of that.
None of those approaches are what Marvel did.
A single, distinct vision that's mostly shit, sure.
Secret Fawful
Member
Yeah? Tell me more about how Heath Ledger is going to be the worst Joker of all time while I sit back and enjoy my Rocketeer blu-ray, jett.
non sequitur
- Status