I was talking about quality of the end products, good filmmakers can make bad movies. Also what are you talking about "quality of the filmmakers"? These are superhero movies, the executive meddling is apparent in nearly all of them, movies like Amazing Spider-Man 2 being a text-book example.
Hollywood Reporter: Edgar Wright just left Ant-Man
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I was talking about quality of the end products, good filmmakers can make bad movies. Also what are you talking about "quality of the filmmakers"? These are superhero movies, the executive meddling is apparent in nearly all of them, movies like Amazing Spider-Man 2 being a text-book example.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I thought I could see your angle on this Sculli, but then I remembered that Daredevil, Elektra, Ghost Rider and Catwoman exist.
?
It only takes five seconds of looking at the first Thor to see it's a Branagh movie. Royal family intrigue and dutch angles errywhere.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You were talking about studios as if they're an indicator of quality as opposed to indicator of funding.
If you're not interested in discussing the qualities of the people writing/directing/acting in the movies, then why are you even interested in movies? Yunno?
Saying "They're superhero movies" doesn't mean that there still aren't opportunities for quality storytelling to come through, and that has nothing to do with the people signing the checks, and has everything to do with the people actually doing the work.
I don't disagree with this. Watchmen is still a movie I enjoy quite a lot despite people criticizing some of the changes (which ironically I found suit the movie better).
The reason I brought up Sucker Punch is that as far as I'm aware it's the only movie that is 100% his own original production. I can defend him to an extent from movies like Man of Steel since Goyer and Nolan gave Snyder a shit outline to work from, but the outline he himself tailored for Sucker Punch was an awful one that to me spoke a lot about his own creative "ideas" that didn't just involve a talent for capturing eye candy on cinema.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Love those two movies.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Unless you're with Marvel, apparently. Wright was my hope to be proven wrong.
I even really enjoyed Cap 2. But god I wish the higher ups at the studio would relinquish some control and remember whose medium film is.
Also Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why should they when the financials say they have yet to make a mistake and the narrative in the press is that they're geniuses PRECISELY for fusing the 40s Hollywood Studio system with Marvel's own publishing model?
It's that sort of (partially fan-fed) hubris that is leading to the wobbling we're getting now, where executives who are comfortable with success are in "protect" mode instead of "progress" mode.
Yeah, we definitely agree more than we don't.
I do love his visual sense, though.
Mighty Chin
Banned
I like Dutch Angles.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I hope Marvel at least ditch Whedon and let the Russo bros direct A3.
Stop twisting my words. I was directly responding to a post that said that certain STUDIOS were ahead in quality and diversification thanks to their directors yes? Yet Nolan made TDKR, Snyder did Man of Steel, Raimi had Spider-Man 3, etc. which all happened to be movies with mixed reception or worse. Using a studio as an indicator of quality is flawed, as is their directors, because what matters most is the end product which was my point.
The idea that some studios are bastions for originality and give more freedom to their filmmakers is insane. You really think Snyder would be cramming as many Justice League characters into Man of Steel 2 as he is if it weren't for mandates from executives?
Let it go breh.
Guardians is literally the first truly unique concept in the genre I've seen in a while since Super.
Directed by the same guy.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm not?
Agreed! (mostly. I mean, independent studios obviously do, but we're obviously not talking independent film)
Maybe? He is Zack Snyder. You have anything in his filmography that points to the idea he WOULDN'T have tried to put Batman & Wonder Woman in a movie as soon as he could?
Super came out a year after Defendor, which had a very similar concept.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And Guardians' concept isn't that far removed from Firefly. Created by Joss Whedon. The guy who pretty much got James Gunn hired.
Stop using strawman arguments. Movie universes that crossover is what is going to happen.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm not?
What I posted isn't a logical fallacy, man.
Marvel didn't invent the idea of a shared continuity. It simply showed that one can work onscreen. But even then - it's not as if there isn't proof that other studios were willing to try and do that on their own before Marvel made it work.
So if the concept of "Continuity" isn't a Marvel Studios invention, and they weren't even the first to pursue such a concept (although they were the first to succeed at it) then how is what Sony, Fox, or Warner Brothers are doing "pulling a Marvel?"
It isn't. They're not doing the same thing, and they're not doing it the same way.
A "Marvel" is using individual films to set the table for a team-up movie/super-sequel. That's their primary innovation. None of the other studios are really doing this.
None of this is "Strawman." I mean, maybe it's "goalpost-moving" but even, then, I don't think so.
They can't wait until Guardians to make a decision on the production of this film, especially if they are trying to stick to the July release date.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
To be fair, that's only because they literally can't. I seem to remember them being all "HEY WE'RE GONNA PUT THEM IN THE SAME UNIVERSE" up until a month or so ago
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No, they could. They just don't want to.
The "We're gonna put them in the same universe" was 100% fan-fabricated, if I remember correctly.
Pretty sure Kinberg himself was, at some point, like "Nah. We're having a hard enough time getting Fantastic Four the way we want it - what makes you think we want to add X-Men to that. I mean... LOOK AT 'EM."
Then they better find a director. Get someone who has film and TV experience.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Really? Fair enough. I'm going completely off (poor) memory here *shrug*
On the topic of the FF, has there been any news or set photos or...anything? It's been shooting for a few weeks now right? Seems a bit...lacking.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
They're still trying to get Kate Mara to emote.
You can play that same game with Marvel Studios too. For every Thor 2 or Incredible Hulk there's an Iron Man, a Winter Solider, an Avengers, blah blah blah.
(you can save me the "but those are all TV-grade shit" line, I know your feelings on Marvel's output already, but it'd be pretty dismissive to also ignore where the critical consensus on their movies lie too)
BobbyRoberts said:
You're remembering wrong
But to be fair, the X-Men/FF crossover ideas were pitched by Mark Millar, whose creative consultant role at Fox was forgotten on basically his first day on the job.Guess we will just have to wait and see what happens then. One of the biggest criticisms against Marvel (and one that I agree with to a degree) is that it seems that they prioritize building a shared universe more than they do the quality of each individual movie, and its something that I think we will see more of... but for now who knows.
Singer took risks? He was so scared he dressed the X-Men up as Matrix washouts.
Cameron took risks? The Navi were the most mass appeal manufactured aliens ever created.
Blockbusters are created for a *fun* film going experience that reaches a broad audience. Don't throw stupid judgement on certain films over others because they don't match your particular interests.
Ninja Scooter
Member
McG?
Father_Brain
Banned
Are you referring to Wolfgang Petersen's Batman/Superman and George Miller's Justice League again? WB really doesn't deserve more than a tiny smidgen of credit for failing to get films off the ground, sorry.
To say Singer did not take risks is to completely ignore what the super hero genre was like at the time X-Men came out. He was the first to try and tell a serious realistic version of the film. Even the closest up until that point, the '89 Batman was still very silly and comic-ish by comparison.
Singer took a HUGE risk with the style he went for with the first X-Men. Nolan would never have had the chance to take it to the next level without what Singer did.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Your reading comprehension needs work. The studio took risks on different directors and visions (admittedly showing their nerves during X1's production). And to try and say that Avatar wasn't a risk for Fox is the worst revisionist history ever.
If that's the case, Marvel will get the rights back real quick!
TheKaeptain
Banned
"No one want to watch a movie with blue cats"
Mighty Chin
Banned
Why do people throw the word "Realistic" out for superhero movies?
because it's kinda implied that you know what they mean.
No superhero movie is truly "realistic," but some are pretty obviously more grounded and relatively realistic to others.
pieatorium
Member
TMNT came way before sorry, Blade a year earlier too.
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