The subjective portion comes in when you start using words like "better." Car A weights 3200 lbs and car B weighs 3500 lbs. Is car B better? If we only care about which is heaviest, sure. If someone cares primarily about sound quality, Beats are not better than many other less expensive options. But people buy headphones for reasons other than sound quality, so white headphones might be better than grey headphones if someone wants white headphones. How you choose to define "better" or what ever metric you decide to judge a product against is entirely subjective.
Its official: Apple just bought Beats for $3 Billion
- Thread starter Maninthemirror
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The subjective portion comes in when you start using words like "better." Car A weights 3200 lbs and car B weighs 3500 lbs. Is car B better? If we only care about which is heaviest, sure. If someone cares primarily about sound quality, Beats are not better than many other less expensive options. But people buy headphones for reasons other than sound quality, so white headphones might be better than grey headphones if someone wants white headphones. How you choose to define "better" or what ever metric you decide to judge a product against is entirely subjective.
DemurOnion
Banned
True but again why would I befriend someone I have nothing in common with tech wise? Beats audio is like club thumping stuff. I am a high-end audio kind of guy. HD800s are my thing. Beats audio just seems so..... not my thing. It's for the masses and the masses and me have very little in common.
I am loving my AKG Q701s, handmade in Austria with input from the man who brought us Thriller and Rashida Jones.
DemurOnion
Banned
I can agree mostly. I don't have a problem with choosing aesthetics. It's a personal thing for me that I can't agree with people choosing beats for sure. I think people should be look at facts and comparisons before choosing tech that you hear or see but that is just me. The stupid part to me still stands though. People with diminished mental capabilities also tend not to make any kind of rational decisions with technology. Buying headphones for aesthetics only is simply not rational to me.
I'm also still having a hard time accepting the subjective part on Beats. They look okay. I'll give you that. As far as comfort and weight and everything else they just don't fit the bill subjectively speaking for me. I also don't trust people who say they are subjectively okay because I have done my own personal research. They are low quality headphones produced for the masses and marked up 300% plus. If someone subjectively prefers Beats to HD800s then I think subjectively they are useless to me.
There is a lot more to life than tech preferences. Seems kind of a petty criteria no?
I like to make friends based on shared interest in books, politics, philosophy, music, movies, etc, but I suppose technology is as good as any.
DemurOnion
Banned
More or less yes me too. Technology comes into the factor here for many of those imo. If people are generally interested in those things as a serious hobby, and then maybe the same kinds of those things as I am, they will more than likely not be into Beats audio so I'm good there.
The Senn King still reigns: http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/be/1571x1280px-be6bb1ee_P1050650.jpg
Dreams-Visions
Member
I am loving my AKG Q701s, handmade in Austria with input from the man who brought us Thriller and Rashida Jones.
need.
Probably won't get any use given my current roster of cans, but....need anyway.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Man some of you guys are STILL bitter, at some point you either got to get over it or like get over it.
Yeah even the box is godly.
http://instagram.com/p/ielpnSrs86/
I wouldn't expect less from AKG and Quincy Jones. They're also individually numbered too.
Wat.
DemurOnion
Banned
Okay, it's pretty simple imo. People generally hang around people with some of the same interests, likes, passions, etc.
Beats to me sends a distinct message that you have no idea what you are doing with audio. So.... not my kind of person is all.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I like to have lots of different friends. Even people that don't care about tech.
Anyway, looks like Eddy Cue and Jimmy Iovine are speaking at the Code Conference right now:
http://gigaom.com/2014/05/28/live-blog-apples-eddy-cue-and-beats-jimmy-iovine-on-the-3b-deal/
http://9to5mac.com/2014/05/28/live-...under-jimmy-iovine-code-conference-interview/
Anyway, looks like Eddy Cue and Jimmy Iovine are speaking at the Code Conference right now:
http://gigaom.com/2014/05/28/live-blog-apples-eddy-cue-and-beats-jimmy-iovine-on-the-3b-deal/
http://9to5mac.com/2014/05/28/live-...under-jimmy-iovine-code-conference-interview/
I think he's saying he's all refined and shit.
So you wouldn't be friends with somebody unless they were 100% about everything you're about?
If you had a friend who bought beats would you stop being their friend?
DemurOnion
Banned
Not at all, but again Beats sends a distinct message to me personally. I really love audio. Maybe if we could talk about it this person would be okay for me.
"If you had a friend who bought beats would you stop being their friend?"
We'd have a long talk about it and return them.
SwiftDeath
Member
Huh missed the update on this
Good for Dre even if I have no desire to buy any Beats product
Good for Dre even if I have no desire to buy any Beats product
Ohhhhhhh, so that's why they're shit!
Not at all, but again Beats sends a distinct message to me personally. I really love audio. Maybe if we could talk about it this person would be okay for me.
"If you had a friend who bought beats would you stop being their friend?"
We'd have a long talk about it and return them.
You can't back pedal out of this one. You come across as an elitest douche with that kind of post, simple as that. May as well just run with it and wear those badges like a boss.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Shallow Hal.
Not at all, but again Beats sends a distinct message to me personally. I really love audio. Maybe if we could talk about it this person would be okay for me.
"If you had a friend who bought beats would you stop being their friend?"
We'd have a long talk about it and return them.
I mean, you're calling people "stupid" and "useless" if they decide they want to get beats headphones. Also you're associating buying beats with being less intelligent in general.
DemurOnion
Banned
Why am I backpedaling again? Now I can't have personal preferences or I am an elitist douche?
Dude, I basically have said that people who wear and love Beats are probably, logically, not my type of people. Like say, people that play play water polo are probably not my type of people. As I doubt I am going to be friends with people who play water polo as a main hobby. It's just how it is for me I don't even get out that much.
I really don't see the harm here. And I think I need to leave if people are going to call me an elitist douche lol. If that is how you view it then fine.
You suggested people who like beats have "diminished mental capabilities" also "tend not to make any kind of rational decisions with technology".
That is more than personal preference my friend. That is a douchy thing to say.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
hahahaha
DemurOnion
Banned
Okay, this is my last post on this topic. What I was trying to say is that if people, shown the quality standards of both, pick Beats then yes I would typify this as stupid. Dim-witted. Whatever you want to say.
If people are using headphones aesthetically instead of qualitatively, for musical reproduction, I seriously doubt we have much in common.
Beats are pretty spendy for some pairs so this should not be misconstrued as hey this person cannot afford better headphones you wouldn't like them because they can't...... Beats are a luxury item pretty much and Apple will only make it more so for the top-end.
And I apologize if people are taking this as douchey. It wasn't really my intention at all.
As someone who would never buy a pair of beats headphones, a 3 billion valuation for the brand seems fairly reasonable for me.
That said, the 75% of the high end headphone market quote is nonsense, the only way they get those numbers is counting only mass market retailers, which basically cuts out the entire rest of the high end headphone market. Even the bigger guys like Sennheiser who have the distribution to get into mass market retailers typically only sell their lower end stuff there.
It's hard to know though, as basically all of the other players (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Shure, etc.) are privately owned so they don't release sales info, but I'd be willing to bet that statistic is a gross overstatement.
That said, the 75% of the high end headphone market quote is nonsense, the only way they get those numbers is counting only mass market retailers, which basically cuts out the entire rest of the high end headphone market. Even the bigger guys like Sennheiser who have the distribution to get into mass market retailers typically only sell their lower end stuff there.
It's hard to know though, as basically all of the other players (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Shure, etc.) are privately owned so they don't release sales info, but I'd be willing to bet that statistic is a gross overstatement.
Btw, you paid almost $2,000 for a pair of headphones. You have very little room to speak about intelligence when it comes to purchase habits. It doesn't matter how good the HD800's are and how much head-fi.org tells you they're well worth it (they're not). You paid $2,000 for headphones.
You're projecting your purpose for buying headphones, for sound quality, and putting it on other and calling them dim-witted, stupid and of diminished mental capabilities if they are buying it for another reason.
It's fine to say you wouldn't buy that for that reason but to actually call people names because they don't want to buy things for the same reasons as you is beyond childish.
super-famicom
Member
Apple just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Audiophile culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is at Best Buy where you can become successful by selling low tier sound at a ridiculously marked up price. If you screw someone over on head-fi.org, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is that audiophiles , after hearing about this, are not going to want to purchase any of Apple's products. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Apple has alienated an entire market with this move.
Apple, publicly apologize and cancel your deal with Beats or you can kiss your business goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Audiophile culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is at Best Buy where you can become successful by selling low tier sound at a ridiculously marked up price. If you screw someone over on head-fi.org, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is that audiophiles , after hearing about this, are not going to want to purchase any of Apple's products. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Apple has alienated an entire market with this move.
Apple, publicly apologize and cancel your deal with Beats or you can kiss your business goodbye.
DemurOnion
Banned
Just to clear things up here I don't own these. I have listened with them extensively but don't own them. There is also a quality line with speakers in the headphone department that basically has to be crossed for the upper quality in bass. This line is at about 800 or more. The HD800s are also not 2000 dollars. You can find them used for under 1000 in perfect condition. I also said those people were useless to ME not useless people, albeit possibly dim-witted. Big difference imo. They could be them Apple CEOs wearing Beats aka far more useful than myself hehe.
Another main reason I don't agree with this brand at all I might add. Beats are simply terrible headphones for over 400 dollars. No getting around it.
CurlySaysX
Banned
Can't wait to buy the 64gb iPhone 6 Dre edition for $1500.
what the fuck?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/03/how_much_does_a_pair_of_jeans.html
A pair of jeans costs like $7.50 to make.
thefunkyman
Banned
"You can't tell people not to buy Beats, but I can tell you not to buy HD800s!"
I particularly liked your "it doesn't matter how good they are" argument. *golf clap*
I would never pay that but I wouldn't call you dim-witted, stupid and of diminished mental capabilities if you did.
It is also misguided to think it's an irrelevant metric. It's not the full picture but for something that isn't exactly cutting edge technology, you can imagine where the other costs for the product mostly went into.
Drink it up, haters.
Don't even own Beats (probably never will), but I'm still happy for the man.
thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
Dre working for Apple. Who would've thought that would happen.
thefunkyman
Banned
It's not the same thing though.
Someone who buys HD800s is doing so because they care about sound quality. I don't know if those headphones sound loads better than a pair that costs $500, but if they do, then it's worth it to some people.
But if everyone is saying "those headphones you're considering buying cost $15 to make and they sound like ass compared to the ones that are half the price", then you'd be a bit silly to buy them based solely on how they look or what name is written on them.
Nobody is walking around in the streets wearing HD800s. If Beats were for home use only, the brand would have died off by now because nobody can see you wearing them.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I remember when thefunkyman said he didn't really care about this.
DemurOnion
Banned
Well in truth people start different conversations and topics change within the thread. It's hard to stay back if someone says something particularly interesting. That being said Beats are basically aesthetic headphones. I will never get why this is cool but whatever phones are the same way I guess. Maybe Apple can up the quality of these maybe not.
I'd respect Beats more if the product had any footing in the quality versus price debate. Apple's practices lately don't inspire my confidence but we shall see.
Out of context it's almost entirely meaningless. It's literally saying that the average material cost of everything they make is $14 and they also sell a thing to customers for $450. The example I used earlier was averaging out BOM costs amongst the entire line of Sennheiser headphones and then suggesting the cheapest pair must be losing them money.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Of course they'll pay in cash. What do you want them to pay in, iTunes vouchers?
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