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"Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

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hey_it's_that_dog said:
Not all of us, but lots of people have very good reason to. It isn't necessarily corruption or power-tripping that is the threat, but insidious, pervasive prejudices in the culture that make cops just a little bit more suspicious of certain groups of people. That suspicion can translate into unfair treatment or rash decisions during ambiguous situations. Sometimes innocent people end up dead.
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I'd say that minorities have a very, VERY good reason to fear the police. That fact is very well documented.

On the other hand, the Supreme Court has given all citizens some very good reasons, regardless of race, to be terrified of even the best cops. They still have rights that stomp all over the citizenry, and can and will use them. They are trained to manipulate and intimidate you.

I always tell my girls that the cops are not there to serve and protect you, but the interests of the state. Generally, if those things align you'll be okay, but that can change in a heartbeat.
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
As a black man, I have had good run-ins with the police. But everyone is different.

One gave me a ride home when it was cold out. Another told to his face I was wasted and that's why I was the passenger in my own car. I could tell he really wanted a DUI, though!

FLORIDA, btw. I know GAF loves FLORIDA.
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Im in Florida. I was completely wasted a few years ago, trying to get into my car....except it wasnt my car lol. Cop turned on the lights and asked questions. I told him i was wasted i imagine and realized it wasnt my car, dont really remember much. But he sent me home in a taxi. Lucked out really good. Never did shots again after that night, so dangerous.
 
Maffis said:
I feel sorry for you Americans. In Sweden I only have positive thoughts about the police here. One time my dog ran away from my garden and after a long search I found the police near the road holding her with a leash. When I got there and they explained the situation they told me I should've called them earlier (which I should have since roaming dogs can be dangerous near roads) and I really felt bad. They were very serious but also very polite and helpful. But then again, Swedish cops under-go a 2.5 year long education. Might be why.
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That's nice about your dog, but the real measure of a police officer is how they behave in a situation where someone is suspected of wrongdoing. Are there any ethnic/racial/religious groups in Sweden who are less trusted than native Swedes? Are there stories of police accidentally hurting or killing innocent people from these groups? The US has a lot of cultural baggage when it comes to racism. I don't know anything about Sweden in this regard, but I assume you guys are a bit more socially liberal, on average. Or maybe you have a more homogenous population, so racial conflict is less common?
 
daviyoung said:
Can someone please explain why asking "am I free to go" is risky?

It seems like a normal question with one of two very straight-forward possible answers. What's the risk?
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You'd think so, but the other option is that they don't answer you and continue asking questions. Watch some if the videos of guys asking this at immigration and DUI posts. The officers don't answer immediately because that's basically asking them to judge whether it not you should be arrested the second you talk to them.

It's definitely helpful to know your rights about being stopped by police, but if you act like a defensive prick to the legal letter of the law, cops are going to do the same back to you. Be respectful about routine traffic stops, but firm about refusing unnecessary searches.

Anyone notice some interesting parallels between police topics like this and YesAllWomen?
 
So all of this fear of the police, everyone in this thread is aware that we are all paying their salaries to be treated like this...right?

I dunno, I just thought of that a few weeks ago, that we are paying their way, and yet it seems like little is done to correct some of this. I am not saying that all cops are bad, but even to just suggest that there was any wrong doing and you feel like you are now being watched.
 
Maffis said:
I feel sorry for you Americans. In Sweden I only have positive thoughts about the police here. One time my dog ran away from my garden and after a long search I found the police near the road holding her with a leash. When I got there and they explained the situation they told me I should've called them earlier (which I should have since roaming dogs can be dangerous near roads) and I really felt bad. They were very serious but also very polite and helpful. But then again, Swedish cops under-go a 2.5 year long education. Might be why.
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I would love to live in your country if it weren't so fucking cold.
 
mrkgoo said:
It seems like a legitimate question.

You Americans really fear your police? I mean, is the proportion of corrupt or power-trip officers so high as to warrant this kind of concern?
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I imagine the proportion is actually pretty low, but you hear about enough incidents that it doesn't seem worth possibly risking your life to take a stand.
 
You know what's fucked up? You can be arrested and charged with resisting arrest and nothing else. What the hell? They should have to actually charge you with something arrest worthy to be able to charge you with resisting...

Resisting arrest is basically "They pissed me off".
 
Labor said:
Absolutely. We're aware that of course not all police officers are bad, but there are more than enough who are to warrant extra caution. Especially if you're a minority.
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Elfforkusu said:
Yes.
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hey_it's_that_dog said:
Not all of us, but lots of people have very good reason to. It isn't necessarily corruption or power-tripping that is the threat, but insidious, pervasive prejudices in the culture that make cops just a little bit more suspicious of certain groups of people. That suspicion can translate into unfair treatment or rash decisions during ambiguous situations. Sometimes innocent people end up dead.
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That really sucks.

But I suppose the police see it as starting from the other side - they have to be extra cautious and so better safe than sorry?

Wow, that sucks.

I like to think that we don't have that concern here in NZ. Always felt the police were courteous and friendly. I guess it might be different if I were part of a particular minority perhaps. There's always prejudices.
 
I don't care. Fuck them, I know my rights. I always ask to see all of their identification and ask so many questions they just say fuck it and leave.
 
Its all different everywhere though. Im always nice to the police. Every encounter ive had has been positive - i treat them nice and like a human, and they do the same.
I always stick to doing that cause its helped me - but of course i know it wont always work.
 
NastyBook said:
Basically. Got pulled over for the first time in my life in South Georgia, dude tells me how fast I was going, then asks me if I should have him check his radar again to see if it was wrong. I just shrugged since I knew that was a bullshit question that would only fuck me in the end.

Don't talk back.
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Black guy here. I always try to be cooperative because of the first three words in my post, but there were a few times when I spoke my mind (I even cursed at a cop) and I got to drive home under my own power.

I still can't believe it, but it happened.
 
Yes, American cops are scary. Low in intelligence and knowledge/concern of the law, yet they're able to enforce it with their limited and often biased judgment using potentially deadly force. And they have a whole police force to back them up, which means very little consequence for erroneous actions.

My ex's brother became a cop; it's really a certain breed. This dude was a shortsighted asshole. Bunch of rednecks running around trying to teach people a lesson.

But that's not to say there aren't good ones.
 
WickedCobra03 said:
So all of this fear of the police, everyone in this thread is aware that we are all paying their salaries to be treated like this...right?

I dunno, I just thought of that a few weeks ago, that we are paying their way, and yet it seems like little is done to correct some of this. I am not saying that all cops are bad, but even to just suggest that there was any wrong doing and you feel like you are now being watched.
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Well, firstly. You don't have a choice in the matter. If you don't pay taxes to the IRS. You are thrown into a privately owned federal prison. Where someone makes money off of you being there. There is no accountability for the police force in America, because we have lost all significant civilian representation in our politics. Business interests are what drives elected officials legislation/actions. If we had a government that represented its citizens, we wouldn't have governmental abuse be it letting banks take advantage of us, or the problem we have with our justice system targeting minorities.

The problem in america is that a lot of people have this american dream. Which means that you have to be sleeping through all of the horrible shit happening right now, in hopes that you too will be a Rockefeller one day. So with that in mind, you can't criticize mother government, as clearly its working for the handful of people that you want to join one day. Rights removals, 247 surveillance is all part of that. If the people running things say "If you're not doing anything wrong, why should you care." Then you'll fall in line and regurgitate the message as if it were your own. You see this shit happening in every facet of our lives now. Minorities hating their own to get a leg up with the upper-club that they will never be able to join. America has problems, but its all due to us letting businesses run our country. NO one wanted to say no to a business, all due to those american dream delusions. Look at where its taken us.

~Kinggi~ said:
I have like 5 uncles that are cops.
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Yeah, and my dad is a judge. Former lapd. And he has specifically told me to not get into any trouble with police, and avoid them at all costs. Friends a roid addicted Sheriff.

So for you to pretend that people posting here are exaggerating, is a little intellectually dishonest. People are posting their experiences. You can't just discount them because you have "like" 5 uncles that are cops.

Police abuse on minorities isn't a generalization. Its a national problem thats been noted by data of harassment.

Its like you're pretending everyone else is imagining swamp gas when being illegally treated by the police. Shit happens, its a gigantic problem. Its not exaggerated at all.
 
AllIsOneIsNone said:
Yes, American cops are scary. Low in intelligence and knowledge/concern of the law, yet they're able to enforce it with their limited and often biased judgment using potentially deadly force. And they have a whole police force to back them up, which means very little consequence for erronneous actions.

My ex's brother became a cop; it's really a certain breed. This dude was a shortsighted asshole. Bunch of rednecks running around trying to teach people a lesson.
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This is an incorrect generalization. There are actually cops out there that are intelligent and become cops because of things like family tradition, having nice communities they want to protect, etc. Obviously you have a lot of problems like you suggest, but dont begin to say they all have it.
 
Even as a white female, I wouldn't risk it. I've never been pulled over for something I wasn't doing wrong (i.e. speeding) and I've been let go more times than I've received a ticket.

I was really nervous going through a DUI checkpoint the other day because I didn't have my DL with me (I recently lost it). They asked me if I had been drinking and I told them no, plus I'm clearly pregnant. The police officer said he's seen worse mothers than me (I know what he meant by it but the wording seemed off) and asked again. Then he asked me for my name and birth date, checked to make sure I had a valid DL and let me go. I usually don't have anything to hide when being pulled over so it really doesn't bother me.
 
~Kinggi~ said:
This is an incorrect generalization. There are actually cops out there that are intelligent and become cops because of things like family tradition, having nice communities they want to protect, etc. Obviously you have a lot of problems like you suggest, but dont begin to say they all have it.
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Sorry, it was a generalization. I see competent cops all the time too. But it's still a broken system; the pay grade and the training is not sufficient for a bunch of judge dredds to be running around exercising the hand of the law.
 
commedieu said:
Yeah, and my dad is a judge. Former lapd. And he has specifically told me to not get into any trouble with police, and avoid them at all costs. Friends a roid addicted Sheriff.

So for you to pretend that people posting here are exaggerating, is a little intellectually dishonest. People are posting their experiences. You can't just discount them because you have "like" 5 uncles that are cops.

Police abuse on minorities isn't a generalization. Its a national problem thats been noted by data of harassment.
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You're pretty ignorant in your eagerness to throw everyone in law enforcement under a bus. And I didn't say everyone was exaggerating, just the usual bandwagon hate almost every GAF thread starts.
 
Linsies said:
I was really nervous going through a DUI checkpoint the other day because I didn't have my DL with me (I recently lost it). They asked me if I had been drinking and I told them no, plus I'm clearly pregnant. The police officer said he's seen worse mothers than me (I know what he meant by it but the wording seemed off) and asked again. Then he asked me for my name and birth date, checked to make sure I had a valid DL and let me go. I usually don't have anything to hide when being pulled over so it really doesn't bother me.
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So what happened with that?
 
~Kinggi~ said:
You're pretty ignorant in your eagerness to throw everyone in law enforcement under a bus. And I didn't say everyone was exaggerating, just the usual bandwagon hate almost every GAF thread starts.
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"My uncles are cops so I know most cops aren't crooked" has no more weight than "my uncles are bank CEOs so I know most don't give bad loans."
 
A cop let me go without giving me a speeding ticket last week and I didn't even have to pretend a single one of my uncles are cops.
 
The Adder said:
"My uncles are cops so I know most cops aren't crooked" has no more weight than "my uncles are bank CEOs so I know most don't give bad loans."
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I think the point is that anyone saying "Everyone"/"All" on either side, regardless of what their justifications may be, is wrong.
 
Mister Wilhelm said:
http://www.policecrimes.com/police.html
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Eh, I don't know about that website.

One of the videos (this one, specifically) has a dude doing everything wrong. He talks back and holds lengthy arguments, yells, and is generally being an antagonizing douche. He does NOT choose to stay silent or simply say "am I free to go?". He continues to ramble about "omg nazi germany!!" and other stupid shit that, if he weren't a white male, would've gotten his ass arrested on a checkpoint like that.

In fact, I doubt any of that website takes into account what happens if you're a minority or immigrant. The website seems more preoccupied with a "fuck da police" mentality than actually being informative.

The video below (already posted by someone else in this thread) is more thorough and comprehensive without a cringe-worthy agenda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
 
Yes, I did.
Then again, my father was part of the police force and it was a douchenozzle that was trying to get me in trouble because he got caught sleeping in the car.
He called the dispatcher, who told him to go back to the station and to shut up.

It was fun.
 
~Kinggi~ said:
You're pretty ignorant in your eagerness to throw everyone in law enforcement under a bus. And I didn't say everyone was exaggerating, just the usual bandwagon hate almost every GAF thread starts.
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The old classic "ever single police officer isn't a bad one ever" nonsense, that you for some strange reason, assume that everyone isn't aware of.

Kinggi.. As people have posted in the thread already -- every cop isn't bad. (Repeat this 400000 times to yourself and others if need be to understand that no one is saying that Every single cop on earth is bad)

But there is a significant problem of police abuse/accountability in the justice system, and law enforcement as it is. Do you disagree with that? Its not like you can, though, with all of the information we know about it. But, yeah.. still curious to know if you're going to pretend there isn't. Just like you're pretending that you don't understand that these experiences fall under the significant % of abuse from law enforcement.

Cops have guns to defend themselves. They hardly need people downplaying experiences others have had to fit some sad narrative of police being treated unfairly on gaf.

The problems with police haven't gone away. When they do, people won't complain about getting abused by them.


Your argument = People are saying every single police officer.

No one is.

And "hate" doesn't equal things a person wouldn't say, because of the broken justice system/law enforcement in america. Thats police hate huh? People talking about why they would never respond to a police officer in a certain way, because of fear of the police officer...That is what you read as hate?
 
mrkgoo said:
It seems like a legitimate question.

You Americans really fear your police? I mean, is the proportion of corrupt or power-trip officers so high as to warrant this kind of concern?
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Unfortunately if you're a

1.minority
2.minority in a neighborhood or city you don't look like you belong in.

3. Minority dressed like a thug

Police will profile you and if you give them any reason expect them to beat the shit out of you or shoot and ask questions later.
 
The stupid thing about saying this is that when you get pulled over it is most likely the third option of "you are being temporarily detained for investigation". If you are under arrest you will be under arrest, and if you are free to go you will be free to go. Investigatory detention occurs when the police have reason to believe you've been involved in some form of a crime or violation of the law. Not sure how it works in the states exactly, but if you get pulled over at a Canadian drunk driving road block, even if you aren't drinking you can still be asked questions by officer friendly and they won't let you leave until you answer them.
 
I would definitely recommend keeping your trap shut until he comes back after running your license. I would decline consent probably on just about any occasion. I would probably avoid using legal jargon, even words like detained, unless absolutely necessary to avoid being perceived as antagonistic. the goal for a police interaction is to get it over with quickly as possible and that is through general compliance.

Cops are people too, they have extremely difficult, high stress jobs. Virtually every citizen encounter they have is unpleasant, either dealing with an offender or dealing with a victim. They probably have peers that have been shot or shot at or injured while on duty and they carry that with them on every public interaction. The good cops really aren't that interested in busting your chops unnecessarily but like in any profession, the bad ones are bad and in the case of police, the bad ones are very visible.
 
HI said:
Unfortunately if you're a

1.minority
2.minority in a neighborhood or city you don't look like you belong in.

3. Minority dressed like a thug

Police will profile you and if you give them any reason expect them to beat the shit out of you or shoot and ask questions later.
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I can see that I guess.

I know we're talking about US here, but can other people chime in regards to the regions, such as Canada, or even Europe, Asia, Africa etc? How are your respective police forces perceived?
 
Kingbrave said:
I don't care. Fuck them, I know my rights. I always ask to see all of their identification and ask so many questions they just say fuck it and leave.
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This, and if you have a video camera with you or something else that records video, use it.
 
Two Words said:
A lot of people here seem to misunderstand when to use that line. It's not the first line you pull out when pulled over. You should ask a cop that question when you feel your business with the officer is complete, but they will not allow you to leave without any cause. If a cop is pestering to check your car with no cause, it's perfectly legitimate to ask that question.
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Yeah I got roped into this once without realizing I could use that phrase.

Ended up allowing the cop to search my car for, "an inventory check," after getting pulled over. I didn't think of it at the time, but had I said the phrase in the OP, I would have been on my way. Instead I had to wait 45 minutes on the side of the road, because he was convinced my gallon jug of water was moonshine.
 
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