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[JohnDoe]

I'm not that into Cracked but this is a really good article. It does a really good job in calling out the bullshit in MRM.

I'll give you some excerpts but you really need to read the whole thing to get an idea what it is about.

We all know that men's rights activists are insecure -- that's pretty much the only thing the rest of the world agrees with them on. If you go to r/MensRights, r/TheRedPill, or any pickup artist or anti-pickup artist blogs, you'll see people promising to help them be better as men. It's an open invitation to celebrate manliness, like they're the last place on Earth where you can still talk about guns and boobs and tanks and video games.

But it's a trick, because that's not what these places are really about. Check out the very first sentence on a list of the Red Pill's "fundamental beliefs":

Feminists claim they want equality but what they really want is power without responsibility.

Weird ... that doesn't have anything to do with men at all -- it's about women. Let's keep going:

Women are irrational and inconsistent. ... A logical woman is easily baited into becoming emotional; women are easy to compromise.

Women are Machiavellian in nature, this means they are comparatively proficient at being manipulative versus the typical male.

Women love pragmatically and have no capacity to love unconditionally for romantic partners.

I could sit here and list flaws in their arguments all day, but I think the interesting consistency between them all is that they're searching for an injustice to blame their misery on. They want to know why they feel so shitty about themselves -- like anyone would -- and women are as good an option as any:

Physical violence is outlawed whereas mental abuse is not, this allows women to get their way without being held accountable by a system of law.

It goes without saying that that's a horrifying thing to say, but think about how hard they have to stretch their own thoughts to make that argument: They're assuming that women are fundamentally better at arguing (and therefore smarter) than men, because that's the only way "arguing" being less illegal than "beating the fuck out of someone" could be unfair to one gender. But obviously their argument hinges on women being dumber than men, too (or "more prone to emotional thinking," whatever the flying shit that means). Basically, they're not actually thinking about their arguments -- because they're not trying to convince you, they're trying to explain to themselves why they're so fucking sad. And this particular explanation is so appealing because it gives them a villain. It's tough to rally the troops around depression, or insecurity, or anything else that doesn't have a concrete cause, but have you ever tried blaming other people for your problems? It feels fantastic.

The oppression of gay men seems like an obvious issue for the men's rights movement to glom onto, right? It's super easy to find statistics about it, and since it's a major issue in the news, it'd be a great way to get more people to pay attention to their cause. But instead you just see them using homophobic slurs all the goddamn time:

I would rather not see these kinds of "gay, redpill, and proud" posts. Masculinity is in part defined by our attraction to the feminine. If your preference is to be a man-pleaser then you're not expressing any kind of masculinity that's worth celebrating.

Race would be another great topic for them (black masculinity would give them plenty to talk about, right?), but again, it almost never comes up.

This is how all hate groups work: Sure, they have one specific target they like shitting on more than any other, but they're weirdly open-minded about whom they're total dicks to. That's why you see so many different hate groups fighting each other.

And that's why you're going to see so many angry comments about how "this doesn't apply to all men's rights groups!" People are going to say that the Red Pill is a fringe part of the movement, or that PUAHate, the forum UCSB shooter Elliot Rodger belonged to, doesn't really understand what men's rights is about. But the problem is that every men's rights faction thinks that everyone else is a fringe part of the movement. If you're not in the Red Pill, you're governed by "blue pill thinking" and have been compromised by the feminist agenda -- even if you belong to another men's rights community (The "red pill" is a reference to The Matrix: taking the "red pill" means you wake up and realize that women are robots who are harvesting our bodies to charge their batteries, apparently). PUAHate hated the "pickup artist community," even though both groups have exactly the same values: Women are commodities to be acquired and subjugated. They are conquests -- things that determine your worth as a human.

So you may not realize this, but it turns out that when I accuse the men's rights movement of being a hate group, I'm actually being kinda controversial. Which is why I asked Michael Kimmel, a professor of sociology and author of Angry White Men, what he thought.

"I know that Southern Poverty Law Center labeled MRAs hate groups," he says, "I don't know that I would. I see the men's rights world as many enraged individuals, coalescing loosely in the 'manosphere' on the Web, with little or no organizational structure, coherent policy initiatives, or plans ... But that's only because my definition of 'hate groups' requires concerted action, and the viciousness of many of their cyberattacks against feminist women make me think that those women who have been targeted might have a different story to tell."

also, a real gem:

The "incel" community (which Elliot Rodgers belonged to) still exists mainly online, but they're not exactly shy about using violent language and making plans. They're openly arguing for the destruction of modern society and even talk about "going Elliot." As in, killing people.

Please read the full article here:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-uncom...wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=060514

 

[DeadNames]

This won't end well..

 

[User 100115]

The first point in the article, about preying on insecurity, is one of the things that pisses me off the most. Especially since in the case of MRAs, most of the insecurity is based on some pretty awful ideals about what it means to be a 'man' that hopefully society will move away from.

Another point they make, about how they simply attack people instead of trying to do positive things like cancer awareness/research, stopping prison rape, or trying to end the notion that being a male teacher/nurse somehow makes you less manly is upsetting as well.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Isn't it widely known that MRA is bullshit?

Like, honestly, I'm wondering why this is even a topic.

 

[User 100115]

Isn't it widely known that MRA is bullshit?

Like, honestly, I'm wondering why this is even a topic.

We have a lot of people here that defend it, actually.

 

[Crayons]

Isn't it widely known that MRA is bullshit?

Like, honestly, I'm wondering why this is even a topic.

I think the same, I've known plenty of feminists irl but I've never met someone who identified with this. I don't even thinks its a real thing.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Subbing for inevitable whiny MRAs posting ITT.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

/r/TheRedPill is full of circlejerking peeps.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

Women are irrational and inconsistent. ... A logical woman is easily baited into becoming emotional; women are easy to compromise.

Women are Machiavellian in nature, this means they are comparatively proficient at being manipulative versus the typical male.

Women love pragmatically and have no capacity to love unconditionally for romantic partners.

lol

 

[Angelus Errare]

We have a lot of people here that defend it, actually.

Well to be fair we have a lot of people here who defend any and everything.

 

[Unbounded]

This thread has a bright future ahead.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Well to be fair we have a lot of people here who defend any and everything.

.

 

[SaviorX]

Men's rights? Which rights have men been denied recently?

And man that anti-female outlook outlined the OP is so sad and pathetic. I don't understand...just because one woman may not like you doesn't mean you demonize them all. Feminism as far as I know is building women up yet not resorting to putting men down. But the insecurity present in that explanation of how women think (as if a man could even know that half of it) is nonsense.

Lucky for me I actually like women. Be an activist for empathy not apathy.

 

[Kinitari]

I really hope there are some decent men's "rights" groups out there, maybe the term men's rights is too toxic now though.

 

[Prax]

The irony of those who oppose men's rights is that their squelching of any discussion of the topic pretty much proves the need for the movement in the first place. If advocates of men's rights are as doofy as you claim, why not just let them post and be ignored?

The Big Lie that feminists perpetuate to justify their power is that they're some kind of oppressed, powerless group. But if that were really the case, you wouldn't see so many people afraid of offending them.

Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." If we aren't allowed to criticize the feminist movement, what does that say about American society today?

i hope you are kidding me lol
the feminist movement is criticized all the time. do you feel unable to or something?

 

[Orbis Tabula]

It does suck that they've stolen the name, because there are some legitimate issues faced by men, and I don't think anyone denies that. Luckily, it seems like feminisim is happy to tackle those sorts of issues as well, leaving MRA as nothing more than reactionary anti-feminism movement. But the naming issues does lead to some serious confusion. There are legitimate discussions you can have about issues regarding men. But the name MRA seems poisoned.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

The irony of those who oppose men's rights is that their squelching of any discussion of the topic pretty much proves the need for the movement in the first place. If advocates of men's rights are as doofy as you claim, why not just let them post and be ignored?

The Big Lie that feminists perpetuate to justify their power is that they're some kind of oppressed, powerless group. But if that were really the case, you wouldn't see so many people afraid of offending them.

Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." If we aren't allowed to criticize the feminist movement, what does that say about American society today?

Source your quotes.

 

[AtomskEater]

It always struck me as weird that MRAs define themselves based on what feminists are doing. It's a response to another group and an attempt to demonize them. Some of the parts about how they (or at least, red pill) ignore gay or minority men puts it into words better than I could.

 

[User 100115]

The irony of those who oppose men's rights is that their squelching of any discussion of the topic pretty much proves the need for the movement in the first place. If advocates of men's rights are as doofy as you claim, why not just let them post and be ignored?

The Big Lie that feminists perpetuate to justify their power is that they're some kind of oppressed, powerless group. But if that were really the case, you wouldn't see so many people afraid of offending them.

Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." If we aren't allowed to criticize the feminist movement, what does that say about American society today?

I can't tell sarcasm anymore, so I'm going to respond as if you are serious. Laugh at me if you're not.

Okay, so, as a feminist, some of the Big Issues that I am active and vocal about are male rape and prison rape.

And I find it kind of humorous, that the article talks about how MRAs don't actually do anything other than attacking feminists, and here you are, talking about how feminists are the root of all evil.

This.



On GAF? There's the occasional junior who will defend it, but he'll inevitably get banned after 2-3 posts in an MRA topic.

Guy above I quoted is not a junior. And seriously, come back to this thread later and be shocked :/

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

The irony of those who oppose men's rights is that their squelching of any discussion of the topic pretty much proves the need for the movement in the first place. If advocates of men's rights are as doofy as you claim, why not just let them post and be ignored?

Because they are incredibly real and frightening, and lead to events like the Elliot Roger shooting. The topics that MRA groups cover are sexist, hateful, and do nothing to contribute to achieving true equality of the sexes.

The Big Lie that feminists perpetuate to justify their power is that they're some kind of oppressed, powerless group. But if that were really the case, you wouldn't see so many people afraid of offending them.

Throughout history, women have been oppressed, abused, and labeled as powerless. It's not a "Big Lie"; it's a reality that these groups do not want to face. Instead, they'd rather point the finger at women and blame them for their problems, because they're an easy scapegoat.

Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." If we aren't allowed to criticize the feminist movement, what does that say about American society today?

It says that we're a society that doesn't give in to the misogynistic ideals perpetuated by MRA communities.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The irony of those who oppose men's rights is that their squelching of any discussion of the topic pretty much proves the need for the movement in the first place. If advocates of men's rights are as doofy as you claim, why not just let them post and be ignored?

The Big Lie that feminists perpetuate to justify their power is that they're some kind of oppressed, powerless group. But if that were really the case, you wouldn't see so many people afraid of offending them.

Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." If we aren't allowed to criticize the feminist movement, what does that say about American society today?

Men's Right is a stupid thing; it's not even needed in a country in which straight white men are the top of the social pile and "run" this country.

Really MRA is just some shit a bunch of whiners made up because they feel they're losing "power" to everyone else.

 

[entremet]

Uncapable of unconditional love? Wow. Talk about bitterness.

 

[titiklabingapat]

It's a reactionary movement. What more needs to be said?

 

[Ragnarok]

I can't wait until we have sex robots (lol). I feel like most of these mental problems would be avoided if everyone was just getting laid on the reg.

 

[Unbounded]

Men's Right is a stupid thing; it's not even needed in a country in which straight white men are the top of the social pile and "run" this country.

Really MRA is just some shit a bunch of whiners made up because they feel they're losing "power" to everyone else.

I don't think this type of attitude is convincing any MRA's that what they're doing is wrong, honestly.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Isn't it widely known that MRA is bullshit?

Like, honestly, I'm wondering why this is even a topic.

Not widely enough, really.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Whoops. I'd always heard this quote to Voltaire, but it turns out it's misattributed. My bad! I will fix that.

No I meant the rest of your post.

Unless you just made a realpost in which case lmao I prefer the pre-edited one where you imply that Elliot Roger's actions were a noble act of last resort against an oppressive Feminist-dominated society.

 

[Crocodile]

The first point in the article, about preying on insecurity, is one of the things that pisses me off the most. Especially since in the case of MRAs, most of the insecurity is based on some pretty awful ideals about what it means to be a 'man' that hopefully society will move away from.

Another point they make, about how they simply attack people instead of trying to do positive things like cancer awareness/research, stopping prison rape, or trying to end the notion that being a male teacher/nurse somehow makes you less manly is upsetting as well.

It does suck that they've stolen the name, because there are some legitimate issues faced by men, and I don't think anyone denies that. Luckily, it seems like feminisim is happy to tackle those sorts of issues as well, leaving MRA as nothing more than reactionary anti-feminism movement. But the naming issues does lead to some serious confusion. There are legitimate discussions you can have about issues regarding men. But the name MRA seems poisoned.

Yep, one of the more frustrating thing about all this. There are actual issues that need addressing that such a group would be especially adapt at doing so. Instead they, however many of them they are, waste their time being essentially a hate group :/ >_<

 

[APF]

It's equally as valid as other groups favoring the empowered, like white supremacy / white rights or groups along those lines.

 

[Winter John]

I've been told by a woman that I'm not allowed to snort glue or huff paint thinner anymore. I don't think it's fair. I enjoy huffing paint, it make the days seem a little brighter. I expect i'll feel more oppressed about this when i come down from the ceiling

 

[way more]

I'm not that into Cracked but this is a really good article. It does a really good job in calling out the bullshit in MRM.

yeah, we get it. From now on when you want to make a Cracked thread around here you don't have to preface is with "I know, Cracked. Right? But this time it's actually good . . . "

We get it, nobody actually likes cracked except for all the really well written articles and observations. May we forever have a moratorium on saying how much you don't like Cracked in your Cracked threads.

 

[Calibus]

I think the real issues men need to be fighting for are things like more fair treatment in family court (alimony, custody rights, etc) and truly offensive sexist shit like not being able to sit next to unaccompanied minors on certain airlines.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Nothing to contribute. The article is spot on.

 

[Perspicacity]

Whoops. I'd always heard this quote to Voltaire, but it turns out it's misattributed. My bad! I will fix that.

Good edit! Hey why not take it a step further and cite the actual source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Strom

Kevin Alfred Strom (born 1956) is the former Managing Director of National Vanguard. Strom resigned from National Vanguard in July 2006.[1] In 2008 Strom pleaded guilty to possession of ten images of child pornography and was sentenced to 23 months in prison.[2]

Known for Racist, white separatist, and neo-Nazi activism

 

[APF]

I think the real issues men need to be fighting for are things like [...] truly offensive sexist shit like not being able to sit next to unaccompanied minors on certain airlines.

How exactly do you propose people attempt to address this important issue?

 

[Yagharek]

MRA are actively harmful to genuinely important men's health issues such as depression, routine checks for prostate cancer etc.

They have chosen a misleading name in a similar way to those fuckwits in 'Vaccination Alliances' who promote lies about autism etc.

In the end these groups invariably do more harm than good and set back genuine causes by years if not decades.

 

[Crayons]

yeah, we get it. From now on when you want to make a Cracked thread around here you don't have to preface is with "I know, Cracked. Right? But this time it's actually good . . . "

We get it, nobody actually likes cracked except for all the really well written articles and observations. May we forever have a moratorium on saying how much you don't like Cracked in your Cracked threads.

Harsh words from a guy who titled his OP like a Fox News article

 

[rudieboy77]

Two fallacies in the same title, truth and rights.

 

[User 100115]

Oh man the depression thing pisses me off to no end. This notion of 'meaning up' and no talking about your problems and refusing to seek help is actually getting people killed and I wish it would go the fuck away.

Edit: Re: Above post.

Where the hell are feminists demanding unlimited power? And also, feminism by definition is 'for gender equality'. Feminists are ones in threads about criminals bitching at people for advocating prison rape. Feminists are the ones in threads about an unconscious man getting and no consensual blow job from a nurse or about a hot teacher raping a 12 year old boy calling out everyone who says 'nice'.

MRAs are the people that come into threads on women's issues and downplay it or say 'what about men'. MRAs are the ones that come into every thread about feminism and wax poetic on how evil they are.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I don't think this type of attitude is convincing any MRA's that what they're doing is wrong, honestly.

If common sense and "well duh" moments is all it took to convince not so smart people that they were in fact...not so smart; I'd imagine that many of America's problems would disappear fairly quickly.

 

[Calibus]

How exactly do you propose people attempt to address this important issue?

Same way many women's groups do when they encounter sexism from corporations -- bring it up with the company, boycotts, petitions, public awareness, etc.

 

[CornBurrito]

r/TheRedPill is pretty much one of the most disgusting things I've seen on the internet. Home to some of the worst people ever, including some who would be extremely happy to see woman's suffrage retconned out of existence. It's crazy.

And here is the post in case people think I am making this up: http://np.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1ssspd/interesting_case_of_lmr/

 

[Hitokage]

Look, I feel bad for anyone who's been discriminated against on the basis of their sex....

"...BUT WHAT ABOUT MINE?"

 

[APF]

Same way many women's groups do when they encounter sexism from corporations -- bring it up with the company, boycotts, petitions, public awareness, etc.

So you are going to organize protests against airlines saying you want to sit next to young children.

 

[royalan]

The irony of those who oppose men's rights is that their squelching of any discussion of the topic pretty much proves the need for the movement in the first place. If advocates of men's rights are as doofy as you claim, why not just let them post and be ignored?

The Big Lie that feminists perpetuate to justify their power is that they're some kind of oppressed, powerless group. But if that were really the case, you wouldn't see so many people afraid of offending them.

It's been said that to learn who rules over you, one simply has to find out who you are not allowed to criticize. If we aren't allowed to criticize the feminist movement, what does that say about American society today?

You do realize that you make it hard to take your post seriously when you characterize the feminist movement as this huge, organized power conglomerate whose specific goal is to keep men down, right? You realize how absolutely bonkers that sounds, right?

And herein lies the problem with so-called Men's Rights Groups: in their popular form, they don't actually exist advocate for, and educate the public on, legitimate issues facing men (which DO exist). They exist mostly as a foil of the Big Bad (and mostly imaginary) "Feminist" Boogeyman.

 

[Frodo]

If feminists were men, the media would be calling upon us every day to explain why women are far more likely to obtain college degrees than men.

If feminists were men, the far higher conviction rates for men in our criminal justice system would be attributed to a massive societal biases against men.

If feminists were men, calling someone a "dick" would be a "gendered insult" that would get you banned from GAF.

If feminists were men, stoplights and anything else involving red-green distinctions would be claimed to be biased against men because men are more likely than women to be red/green colorblind.

If feminists were men, the fact that female orgasms are longer, frequent, and more satisfying would be used to "prove" that sex is inherently discriminatory against men.

If feminists were men, we'd be told about how scary it is to go out as a man because you can get kicked in the balls.

N.B. I don't think any of these complaints are REAL. They're (mostly) silly. They're demonstrating how you could apply the same "logic" of the feminist movement and arrive at the opposite conclusion.



But Calibus! Men's groups are scary evil rapists!

All right... where do I start from...?

Edit: so much wrong that I'll actually pretend I didn't read this today.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

But it's absurd for feminist groups to demand unlimited power because of the claim that women are supposedly uniquely disadvantaged by invisible forces that can't be empirically demonstrated (and that it's immoral to ask for evidence for) is pseudoscience. Yesterday's medieval bishops who claimed to be uniquely empowered to deliver the word of God to the serfs are today's feminist bloggers handing down the latest outrage to the peons.

Who is saying that women have unlimited power? We don't. Feminism is incredibly important and should be talked about in order to stop misogynistic ideas from spreading. Why? Because there are people out there like Elliot Roger who feel entitled about these issues and act like they're victims. No one gender is better than the other, and these MRA groups need to stop acting like women are the root of all evil.

There is discrimination against women, and there is discrimination against men. Are we going to have a movement that seeks gender equality, or are we going to have a movement that exalts the complaints of women and scoffs at the complaints of men?

We can't have a movement that seeks gender equality if these MRA groups continue to spread their bullshit.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

The saddest part of the MRA bullshit that goes on is that it only confuses or ignores real issues that men face, all while being a hate fueled movement that gets more attention than legitimate issues. I've been through phases of emotional distress and when I dare mention any of it to someone else who isn't paid to listen to it I get a lot of sarcastic and judgmental responses along the lines of "lolbeaman". The most interesting of these instances is when I've heard it from people who are otherwise much more critical of societal nonsense like this, but when confronted with it in their personal life all of that goes out of the window.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

"...BUT WHAT ABOUT MINE?"

Sorry man. I know you are a dolphin born in a human skin without any genitals

Seriously. Men's Rights Groups are laughable...

We can't have a movement that seeks gender equality if these MRA groups continue to spread their bullshit.

Same applies vice versa though.

Also here on NeoGAF you saw some people claiming Tomb Raider is misogynist, because dying by spikes is implied Rape, because Lara moans upon dying. I mean its ridiculous, but if you make mountains out of molehills, no one will take you seriously. That applies to men and women.

 

[Sonicbug]

The irony of those who oppose men's rights is that their squelching of any discussion of the topic pretty much proves the need for the movement in the first place. If advocates of men's rights are as doofy as you claim, why not just let them post and be ignored?

The Big Lie that feminists perpetuate to justify their power is that they're some kind of oppressed, powerless group. But if that were really the case, you wouldn't see so many people afraid of offending them.

It's been said that to learn who rules over you, one simply has to find out who you are not allowed to criticize. If we aren't allowed to criticize the feminist movement, what does that say about American society today?

Is this guy for real or is he joking? I only ask because of the Zork avatar and I don't like Zork being used as an avatar by people that make me sad.