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[Hours Left]

One minor gripe, I am a bit sad that the Mii Fighters didn't get a poster like the rest of the newcomers.

 

[Not]

I know it's old by now, but I don't care. I'm just reading it.

Impressions and observations from invitational players:
http://meleeiton.me/2014/06/10/invitational-impressions/

Sounds like it could be the worst Smash game yet, or at least in contention. Hopefully the team at Nintendo is really listening to feedback. The grand finals of the invitational didn't look to hot either. And Sakurai's comment at today's roundtable inspires 0 confidence:

"When creating a game, we cannot just appeal to traditional fanbases. We need to reach out to new gamers, and cater to many target users."

Also, this is awful news if either point is remotely true:


Brawl was his idea of that too, right? Sounds like his plan to 'appeal to everyone' is to try and make the game play worse for the people that enjoy it most.

We'll see though. Even if it's the worst Smash, it will probably be great. And I'm probably just jumping to conclusions. We still know so little about this game.

This is the worst thing ever. You guys are just ruining everything for yourselves. Enjoy the game for what it is. Play Melee if you want. Stop making this game seem like it's so horrible by comparing it to another game entirely. You don't trip, and it's the worst Smash yet? Just stop. Get out. Go away.

 

[OricWindstar]

Was there any confirmation on Mario's FS being the same or at least buffed?

 

[Immaculate]

I thought the grand finals were amazing

 

[OmegaSmash]

So what kind of impressions do people here even want?

 

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm pretty sure the people displeased about the gameplay mechanics of Smash 4 don't care whether or not the majority players share those concerns. Saying that the majority don't care about the mechanics of x, y, or z is akin to saying a poster's opinion is useless and should not be voiced. Let people express their gratitude and concern. I'm not a competitive player by any means but its super easy to understand their hesitation if you've followed Brawl.

I'm sure people are fully aware of the futility of applying the current Melee meta to Smash 4 and using that as a barometer of gameplay quality. But the same wait-and-see approach was done with Brawl and that didn't turn out well. Having impressions that cement the things they didn't like in Brawl, or even make things worse, would understandably make them upset. It may not impact someone like me who is mostly interested in the party aspects of the game, but it would certainly have a huge effect on the more competitive-oriented players. If you have the expertise to explain why certain changes in mechanics is not so bad then express it as a counterpoint to naysayers. But if you're like me and don't understand diddly squat about these fancy terms then it would be best to just sit back and let people voice their displeasure.

This is such a beautiful post.

I'm afraid to read the rest of this thread, but I want to voice my appreciation for this well-reasoned approach

 

[MrSaturn99]

Backing away from the current discussion for a moment, I'd like to mention how I think it's totally awesome they added Pooka from Dig Dug as a Smash Run enemy.

 

[reelbigtink]

Is this confirmed to be real? onefinalsmash.com

How many mercenary demons do we know of?

 

[kraznk1d]

A lot of that stuff wasn't even meant to be in the game though. THey were glitches and/or exploits. And simpler doesn't really equate to deeper anyways (Some of the deepest games in existence are stuff like chess and other board games that are incredibly simple rules wise). To me a lot of the advanced techniques were hidden, unknown, and pretty much just dexterity checks and this creates a wall between those who know and can use them and those who don't. The whole point of a lot of smash mechanics (like B button specials) is to remove those types of things that are prevalent in fighting games.

Do you even grasp why simple games like chess have infinite depth? If you played chess where you only had pawns and a king would it be a good game? Intentional to the creators or not, it is the concept of map advantage coupled with sheer magnitude of viable maneuvers you can make in a game like chess is what gives it depth. Both qualities are necessary. How useless would the game be if every time you took a piece, you just get a point and the opponent gets to replace the piece somewhere on the map. Whoever has the most points when A king dies wins. The sheer number of viable moves would be unchanged but it would be a shitty ass game. Do you understand why?

Fighting games have always been about reading and punishing; controlling space and pace. Techniques like l cancelling and wavedashing aren't desired because an elitist mentality. Reduced aerial lag (lcancel) allows for 2-3 hit combos which gives momentum to the aggressive player. Wavedashing increases your movement options to make your approaches less readable, as well as facilitating punishing. A game that favors campy play, favors one strategy, a couple of broken moves, and neuters the entire concept of stage control and momentum.

 

[theprodigy]

1 person in this thread made that comment. No need to attribute that to others who may have some overlapping opinions. I do not share that opinion whatsoever.

It wouldn't be a GAF post without a hivemind accusation.

 

[Hours Left]

Backing away from the current discussion for a moment, I'd like to mention how I think it's totally awesome they added Pooka from Dig Dug as a Smash Run enemy.

Yeah, I love the Dig Dug baddies.

 

[OricWindstar]

Backing away from the current discussion for a moment, I'd like to mention how I think it's totally awesome they added Pooka from Dig Dug as a Smash Run enemy.

Yeah, so awesome! I used to play Dig-Dug a lot on my dad's computer when I was a kid, so that series hits the nostalgia hard for me.

 

[Clefargle]

We still need:

Snake
Falco
Wolf
R.O.B.
Ness
Lucas
Capt. Falcon
Shulk
Chrom
Choir Boys
AND BAYONETTA

 

[Aaronrules380]

So what kind of impressions do people here even want?

I'd prefer ones that tell me about whether it was enjoyable or not, and basics on how it felt. A checklist of stuff that was in Melee and isn't here or stuff like that is pointless. It's completely impossible to do a competitive analysis of a new Smash game during the short time span that is E3 because that takes time to develop

 

[Neiteio]

One minor gripe, I am a bit sad that the Mii Fighters didn't get a poster like the rest of the newcomers.

Yeah, I agree, would've been nice to have a poster with them.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

Everything Sakurai says indicates he's not too concerned with the competitive community. Like it or not, that's just his attitude. The fact that Melee was great for competitive play was, it seems, an accident, and Sakurai specifically tried to go i the other direction with Brawl. So if you go into Smash expecting it to be tuned for tournament play, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

If you loved Melee, then I'm sure you love the basic Smash formula. If you focus on that - on what Smash 4 does with the basic formula, what core features remain, what new twists it brings - I bet you'll enjoy it much more.

I know that when I try to go back and play melee I get stuck missing all the little things like being able to pick up items while running. I swear I spend the longest time trying to just grab an item whenever I go back and try melee again

Brawl definitely upped the item game. The fact that it was easier to grab items in the air, when running, or when they had been thrown at you, and the way items you threw seemed to bounce off people they hit and come back to you, made item-chucking more chaotic and exciting than ever. Obviously, that doesn't do anything for people who play without items, but for people like me who have items permanently set to very high, it was a real blessing.

 

[Benzychenz]

Oh ZSS's new final smash is neat.

 

[Revven]

this! I like to pla competitively but the melee folks just outright refuse to adapt. if it isn't melee its garbage.

Ugh.

I'm making this my last post tonight in here.

Let me tell you something: Melee players played Brawl for a whole year, at least before giving up the game. They DID adapt to the game and gave it a fair shake and they were, decidedly, frustrated with how limited it was compared to Melee for competitive play.

That's it. They can adapt, it's not about refusing to adapt -- it's about actually liking the core game for competitive play first and then adapting to it. If they don't like the core game, why should they adapt?

Some people will inevitably play both, I've heard that from some top players already (like PewPewU, at least I've heard him say that in the past). But not liking the core game is a big reason for someone not to adapt to it and stop playing it.

Let's be real here, too: it's hard to play multiple Smash games because they feel so different and play differently from each other. If you try to play the same character in both games, one of them is going to get messed up during that day because of the mindset you're in from the other game. It's rare as shit to see people playing all the Smash games at a single tournament. Literally the only players that come to my mind that play the relevant competitive Smash games today are M2K, Zer0, and DEHF/Larry Lurr. Literally three players.

If you can play both, you should. But people shouldn't be forced to adapt to a game they either a. don't like how it plays or b. can't play multiple games.

We can argue this all night but let's also be real for a second: we'll never agree. Can't you just see that a sequel in the series is going to be compared to the previous ones to the end of time? That's how literally every game series, ever, goes. People complain about the most minute differences between Call of Duties, yet nobody shits on them as hard as people do on competitive Smash players who compare any Smash game to Melee.

It boggles my mind but it also hurts to see people argue about developer intent in a game where options exist and one such option is to completely turn off items.

Just stop.

 

[Lunar15]

I love the competitive scene, but I also play smash very casually most of the time. However, I have to ask: Are people worried because the game seems less competitive, or that it seems less like melee? I want it to be a more competitive game, absolutely. I didn't like a lot of the changes in brawl for this very reason. Some of the complaints just ring strange to me.

But either way, this isn't the right event to test a lot of this stuff. It's all 4v4 matches with items etc.

 

[Loco4Coco]

So what kind of impressions do people here even want?

To be real, they want Melee HD.

 

[Mr. Smiley]

Is this confirmed to be real? onefinalsmash.com (it's real, I'm just slow)

How many mercenary demons do we know of?

Probably fake. It's registered by a random hotmail account.

 

[Not]

I'm pretty sure the people displeased about the gameplay mechanics of Smash 4 don't care whether or not the majority players share those concerns. Saying that the majority don't care about the mechanics of x, y, or z is akin to saying a poster's opinion is useless and should not be voiced. Let people express their gratitude and concern. I'm not a competitive player by any means but its super easy to understand their hesitation if you've followed Brawl.

I'm sure people are fully aware of the futility of applying the current Melee meta to Smash 4 and using that as a barometer of gameplay quality. But the same wait-and-see approach was done with Brawl and that didn't turn out well. Having impressions that cement the things they didn't like in Brawl, or even make things worse, would understandably make them upset. It may not impact someone like me who is mostly interested in the party aspects of the game, but it would certainly have a huge effect on the more competitive-oriented players. If you have the expertise to explain why certain changes in mechanics is not so bad then express it as a counterpoint to naysayers. But if you're like me and don't understand diddly squat about these fancy terms then it would be best to just sit back and let people voice their displeasure.

Okay, well said. It's just kind of disheartening for us non-competitive types to see so many pessimistic, overtly negative statements

 

[reelbigtink]

Probably fake. It's registered by a random hotmail account.

Yeah, just read that. Yeesh. I feel for it pretty hard.

 

[Hours Left]

Yeah, I agree, would've been nice to have a poster with them.

I don't even understand why they were left out.

Maybe they're gonna include some famous pre-made Miis and are waiting to reveal them before revealing the poster.

 

[Mr. Fix]

Meleetists don't even care about Smash as a whole. They're secluded.

 

[Christopher]

We still need:

Snake
Falco
Wolf
R.O.B.
Ness
Lucas
Capt. Falcon
Shulk
Chrom
Choir Boys
AND BAYONETTA

And K Rool! With his skin swap Eggman!

 

[Neiteio]

I'm not sure you can say Sakurai isn't concerned about the competitive community when he's created Final Destination versions of most stages, created the dedicated "For Glory" mode and made certain tweaks that, while still different from Melee, are an improvement over Brawl (I.E. hitstun, wavebouncing, etc). It's a compromise but ultimately a gain over Brawl. And perhaps if it still falls short of Melee in some ways, it'll offer enough in others that people will still find it fun in its own way.

 

[emb]

This is the worst thing ever. You guys are just ruining everything for yourselves. Enjoy the game for what it is. Play Melee if you want. Stop making this game seem like it's so horrible by comparing it to another game entirely. You don't trip, and it's the worst Smash yet? Just stop. Get out. Go away.

Agreed that the 'worst ever' bit was out of line.

But why not compare it to other games in the series? Should I pretend I've never played a Smash game before? Should I try to totally annihilate any frame of reference I have and not compare it to any other video games?

I don't specifically want Melee mechanics in this game (though of course I would be happy if they were here). I want this game to be fun. This game will not be fun for me if it's slow paced or heavily oriented towards defensive play. I admit it's too early to make this call for sure, but am expressing the idea that based on past experiences, this game may not be turning out to be as good as I had hoped.

 

[solomon]

That's not fair to say. My experiences with the Smash community has been nothing but positive. Sure people have their preferences, but Melee and Brawl people were respectful to each other.



Being a glitch or exploit doesn't make it bad. Developer intent is not king. Pretty much all multiplayer games have techniques or strategies not intended by devs. The beauty of Smash is that its easy to get into and hard to master. Having physical dexterity mixed with high level understanding of the games is what makes the best players.

OK I take that back but man can't we all just get along D:

 

[SenorArdilla]

It'll be way better than Brawl mostly because of superior online, hopefully.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Ugh.

I'm making this my last post tonight in here.

Let me tell you something: Melee players played Brawl for a whole year, at least before giving up the game. They DID adapt to the game and gave it a fair shake and they were, decidedly, frustrated with how limited it was compared to Melee for competitive play.

That's it. They can adapt, it's not about refusing to adapt -- it's about actually liking the core game for competitive play first and then adapting to it. If they don't like the core game, why should they adapt?

Some people will inevitably play both, I've heard that from some top players already (like PewPewU, at least I've heard him say that in the past). But not liking the core game is a big reason for someone not to adapt to it and stop playing it.

Let's be real here, too: it's hard to play multiple Smash games because they feel so different and play differently from each other. If you try to play the same character in both games, one of them is going to get messed up during that day because of the mindset you're in from the other game. It's rare as shit to see people playing all the Smash games at a single tournament. Literally the only players that come to my mind that play the relevant competitive Smash games today are M2K, Zer0, and DEHF/Larry Lurr. Literally three players.

If you can play both, you should. But people shouldn't be forced to adapt to a game they either a. don't like how it plays or b. can't play multiple games.

We can argue this all night but let's also be real for a second: we'll never agree. Can't you just see that a sequel in the series is going to be compared to the previous ones to the end of time? That's how literally every game series, ever, goes. People complain about the most minute differences between Call of Duties, yet nobody shits on them as hard as people do on competitive Smash players who compare any Smash game to Melee.

It boggles my mind but it also hurts to see people argue about developer intent in a game where options exist and one such option is to completely turn off items.

Just stop.

Nothing wrong with that. My issue is that they act like there opinion is some objective fact a lot of the time. They don't need to be forced to adapt. I just don't like this idea that if it isn't the same it's shit which some people seem to feel

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Oh ZSS's new final smash is neat.

any footage or links?

 

[Pappasman]

I'm going to post this again because the message has not been put across at all.

I agree completely. It's the elitist attitude that's holding them back as a community and this kind of schism doesn't help create an enjoyable atmosphere for newcomers and veterans alike.

The worst offenders are those who believe they're a centrifugal part to the metagame and ruleset when they really aren't. There's really no reason to talk down or create an uncomfortable environment for people who enjoy the same things, albeit in different ways.

Although there were mistakes and mishaps in the consecutive game, the developers are actively trying to seek to make this game appeal to a range of audiences.

This sort of elitist attitude serves nothing other than divide the community and discourage people from taking part.

Saying people don't understand as if the competitive scene is the only right way to play is a horrible way of looking at things and it's a horrible way of expressing yourself.

Other communities go out of their way to proactively teach newcomers the basics of competitive gameplay so that they can ease into it.

The California FGC and Smash community is amazing at this and taking potshots at the people who are eventually going to be a part of the Smash or FGC community is counterproductive.

Rather than make your complaints in a haughty manner and actively say that newcomers do everything wrong, why don't you people actively try to teach them the mechanics rather than criticize them.

If they don't want to be a part of the competitive scene, that's perfectly fine and there's no reason to put them down for it. If they want to play with items, let them and play along with them. You are doing the entire community a disservice by going out and acting as if the rules and metagame revolve around you.

Unless you are someone who makes the rules and help develop the metagame, your opinions don't mean shit. If you want to make a lasting difference, go out there and expand the community by teaching others and making it a comfortable environment for newcomers.

Prog is like the James Chen of the Smash community and people like him, including Gimr, Hungrybox, Chibo, and the rest of Kings of Cali, VGBC, and Clash Tournaments deserve nothing but the utmost respect because not only do they spend hours to develop the metagame to what it is now, but they sit down and they actively teach those who want to join the community how to play.

None of us are developing the game, debugging the game, or even developing the rules and techniques that make up the competitive scene. NONE of us have a right to put down others and put up an elitist front that does nothing positive for the Smash scene.

We will NEVER develop as a community so long as people continue to act like this and do nothing positive to contribute to the wellbeing of the FGC and Smash communities.

If you have a fucking complaint, bring it up to those who are in charge of events and tournaments. Bring the concern to them and they'll gladly listen. Don't go bitch about it somewhere else and criticize others for not thinking the same thing.

If you say this shit and pull shit off in the NorCal and SoCal scenes, your reputation is wrecked. This goes for nearly every community out there. Go out and see what happens when you pull off this shit at a FGC or Smash Biweeklies or Tournament. Everyone wants to be better, everyone wants to enjoy the game.

TL;DR Get the fuck off your high horse and be inclusive. Your opinions really don't mean shit at all and if you really want to contribute to the community, create a positive environment and teach others the game like how the Tekken and Street Fighter communities teach others how to play and build fightsticks. That's how you develop a community and that's how you get people to play your game, not with that kind of attitude that we see regularly on Smashboards and even on GAF.

uuuhhhhh, I have not seen this elitist attitude that you have been talking about in the last couple pages of this discussion.

Who are you getting mad at? I know I have not discouraged or put down anyone for playing a game the way they want to.

You're right, the smash community is a really friendly place that is always happy and welcoming to people who want to get more involved.

That being said, this is a discussion forum where the sole purpose is for people to discuss gaming news and opinions. People should be allowed to voice their opinions both negatively and positively.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Here's my question: Are people getting the impression that the mechanics are not suited to SMASH competitive play, or towards competitive play? Because maybe while the game people are wanting/expecting is different from how he envisions it, he could still be trying to foster a competitive community, just not one based on things like wave-dashing/things like that.
Because I highly doubt that wavedashing was what he had in mind with melee.

 

[Lunar15]

It'll be way better than Brawl mostly because of superior online, hopefully.

Some of the comments tonight during the roundtable made me a little worried about this. Way too early to tell, though.

Here's my question: Are people getting the impression that the mechanics are not suited to SMASH competitive play, or towards competitive play? Because maybe while the game people are wanting/expecting is different from how he envisions it, he could still be trying to foster a competitive community, just not one based on things like wave-dashing/things like that.
Because I highly doubt that wavedashing was what he had in mind with melee.

Y'know, answering this as well my own question in some ways: We won't really know until we see how the scene shakes out. Brawl had a scene for a little while, but it petered out as people found melee to be the more appealing game to play. If this game has a competitive angle, even if different than melee, I think it will retain a scene.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I mean worst case scenario, we just have to wait a few years for Project M 2, right?

 

[OricWindstar]

That being said, this is a discussion forum where the sole purpose is for people to discuss gaming news and opinions. People should be allowed to voice their opinions both negatively and positively.

This should be the end of the argument on people saying negative things about the game. You can't people tell people to shut up because their opinion is wrong. I've disagreed with at least 50% of what's been posted about the new Smash, but you know what? Doesn't mean I'm right. I know what I want, and if someone else wants something different, good for them. And if they feel the need to express that, this would be the place to do that because it's a forum. A place designed to discuss stuff, not just praise it.

 

[Benzychenz]

any footage or links?

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/...os--u-e3-2014--bowser-beatdown-gameplay--cam-

Just after the 4 minute mark.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

We still need:

Snake
Falco
Wolf
R.O.B.
Ness
Lucas
Capt. Falcon
Shulk
Chrom
Choir Boys
AND BAYONETTA

I seriously can't believe that Gematsu leak is probably real
Dude, we're getting Shulk and Chrom no fucking way.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm going to post this again because the message has not been put across at all.

I agree completely. It's the elitist attitude that's holding them back as a community and this kind of schism doesn't help create an enjoyable atmosphere for newcomers and veterans alike.

The worst offenders are those who believe they're a centrifugal part to the metagame and ruleset when they really aren't. There's really no reason to talk down or create an uncomfortable environment for people who enjoy the same things, albeit in different ways.

Although there were mistakes and mishaps in the consecutive game, the developers are actively trying to seek to make this game appeal to a range of audiences.

This sort of elitist attitude serves nothing other than divide the community and discourage people from taking part.

Saying people don't understand as if the competitive scene is the only right way to play is a horrible way of looking at things and it's a horrible way of expressing yourself.

Other communities go out of their way to proactively teach newcomers the basics of competitive gameplay so that they can ease into it.

The California FGC and Smash community is amazing at this and taking potshots at the people who are eventually going to be a part of the Smash or FGC community is counterproductive.

Rather than make your complaints in a haughty manner and actively say that newcomers do everything wrong, why don't you people actively try to teach them the mechanics rather than criticize them.

If they don't want to be a part of the competitive scene, that's perfectly fine and there's no reason to put them down for it. If they want to play with items, let them and play along with them. You are doing the entire community a disservice by going out and acting as if the rules and metagame revolve around you.

Unless you are someone who makes the rules and help develop the metagame, your opinions don't mean shit. If you want to make a lasting difference, go out there and expand the community by teaching others and making it a comfortable environment for newcomers.

Prog is like the James Chen of the Smash community and people like him, including Gimr, Hungrybox, Chibo, and the rest of Kings of Cali, VGBC, and Clash Tournaments deserve nothing but the utmost respect because not only do they spend hours to develop the metagame to what it is now, but they sit down and they actively teach those who want to join the community how to play.

None of us are developing the game, debugging the game, or even developing the rules and techniques that make up the competitive scene. NONE of us have a right to put down others and put up an elitist front that does nothing positive for the Smash scene.

We will NEVER develop as a community so long as people continue to act like this and do nothing positive to contribute to the wellbeing of the FGC and Smash communities.

If you have a fucking complaint, bring it up to those who are in charge of events and tournaments. Bring the concern to them and they'll gladly listen. Don't go bitch about it somewhere else and criticize others for not thinking the same thing.

If you say this shit and pull shit off in the NorCal and SoCal scenes, your reputation is wrecked. This goes for nearly every community out there. Go out and see what happens when you pull off this shit at a FGC or Smash Biweeklies or Tournament. Everyone wants to be better, everyone wants to enjoy the game.

TL;DR Get the fuck off your high horse and be inclusive. Your opinions really don't mean shit at all and if you really want to contribute to the community, create a positive environment and teach others the game like how the Tekken and Street Fighter communities teach others how to play and build fightsticks. That's how you develop a community and that's how you get people to play your game, not with that kind of attitude that we see regularly on Smashboards and even on GAF.

K, I lied. I read a few more posts.

I'm not really sure what this post is getting at, but I was brought up (I'm Team OXY's TheCrimsonBlur in the Smash world), and I'm happy that you find the community inclusive & friendly.

----

The Invitational was super fun, and seeing my friends on stage was a blast. There is a lot to say, but this is a landmark moment in our community's history, and I can't wait for the rest of the summer.

 

[Loco4Coco]

any footage or links?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-xQTh3CqDk

 

[Shun]

uuuhhhhh, I have not seen this elitist attitude that you have been talking about in the last couple pages of this discussion.

Who are you getting mad at? I know I have not discouraged or put down anyone for playing a game the way they want to.

You're right, the smash community is a really friendly place that is always happy and welcoming to people who want to get more involved.

That being said, this is a discussion forum where the sole purpose is for people to discuss gaming news and opinions. People should be allowed to voice their opinions both negatively and positively.

The attitude that one group of people is the right way to play and the other is the wrong way is the kind of attitude that is prevalent in Smashboards and within some members here.

Saying that another set of people don't understand mechanics and that how they play is wrong is an insult not only to those who want to learn, but to the community who try to teach others how to play.

Criticism is fine, but overt hatred and negativity does nothing other than split apart a fanbase and it doesn't grow nor strengthen a community at all.

The tone of voice people have had is really offputting, especially to a game that isn't even in it's final build.

Blaming these problems on the ignorance of others and the incompetence of the development team is a horrible mentality to have and it's one that I've seen much too often on this forum and on other forums.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I'm going to post this again because the message has not been put across at all.

I agree completely. It's the elitist attitude that's holding them back as a community and this kind of schism doesn't help create an enjoyable atmosphere for newcomers and veterans alike.

The worst offenders are those who believe they're a centrifugal part to the metagame and ruleset when they really aren't. There's really no reason to talk down or create an uncomfortable environment for people who enjoy the same things, albeit in different ways.

Although there were mistakes and mishaps in the consecutive game, the developers are actively trying to seek to make this game appeal to a range of audiences.

This sort of elitist attitude serves nothing other than divide the community and discourage people from taking part.

Saying people don't understand as if the competitive scene is the only right way to play is a horrible way of looking at things and it's a horrible way of expressing yourself.

Other communities go out of their way to proactively teach newcomers the basics of competitive gameplay so that they can ease into it.

The California FGC and Smash community is amazing at this and taking potshots at the people who are eventually going to be a part of the Smash or FGC community is counterproductive.

Rather than make your complaints in a haughty manner and actively say that newcomers do everything wrong, why don't you people actively try to teach them the mechanics rather than criticize them.

If they don't want to be a part of the competitive scene, that's perfectly fine and there's no reason to put them down for it. If they want to play with items, let them and play along with them. You are doing the entire community a disservice by going out and acting as if the rules and metagame revolve around you.

Unless you are someone who makes the rules and help develop the metagame, your opinions don't mean shit. If you want to make a lasting difference, go out there and expand the community by teaching others and making it a comfortable environment for newcomers.

Prog is like the James Chen of the Smash community and people like him, including Gimr, Hungrybox, Chibo, and the rest of Kings of Cali, VGBC, and Clash Tournaments deserve nothing but the utmost respect because not only do they spend hours to develop the metagame to what it is now, but they sit down and they actively teach those who want to join the community how to play.

None of us are developing the game, debugging the game, or even developing the rules and techniques that make up the competitive scene. NONE of us have a right to put down others and put up an elitist front that does nothing positive for the Smash scene.

We will NEVER develop as a community so long as people continue to act like this and do nothing positive to contribute to the wellbeing of the FGC and Smash communities.

If you have a fucking complaint, bring it up to those who are in charge of events and tournaments. Bring the concern to them and they'll gladly listen. Don't go bitch about it somewhere else and criticize others for not thinking the same thing.

If you say this shit and pull shit off in the NorCal and SoCal scenes, your reputation is wrecked. This goes for nearly every community out there. Go out and see what happens when you pull off this shit at a FGC or Smash Biweeklies or Tournament. Everyone wants to be better, everyone wants to enjoy the game.

TL;DR Get the fuck off your high horse and be inclusive. Your opinions really don't mean shit at all and if you really want to contribute to the community, create a positive environment and teach others the game like how the Tekken and Street Fighter communities teach others how to play and build fightsticks. That's how you develop a community and that's how you get people to play your game, not with that kind of attitude that we see regularly on Smashboards and even on GAF.

Everyone should read this.

 

[Pappasman]

The attitude that one group of people is the right way to play and the other is the wrong way is the kind of attitude that is prevalent in Smashboards and within some members here.

Saying that another set of people don't understand mechanics and that how they play is wrong is an insult not only to those who want to learn, but to the community who try to teach others how to play.

Criticism is fine, but overt hatred and negativity does nothing other than split apart a fanbase and it doesn't grow nor strengthen a community at all.

The tone of voice people have had is really offputting, especially to a game that isn't even in it's final build.

Blaming these problems on the ignorance of others and the incompetence of the development team is a horrible mentality to have and it's one that I've seen much too often on this forum and on other forums.

I absolutely agree with you, but I haven't seen that attitude from anyone in this thread tonight.

This should be the end of the argument on people saying negative things about the game. You can't people tell people to shut up because their opinion is wrong. I've disagreed with at least 50% of what's been posted about the new Smash, but you know what? Doesn't mean I'm right. I know what I want, and if someone else wants something different, good for them. And if they feel the need to express that, this would be the place to do that because it's a forum. A place designed to discuss stuff, not just praise it.

Exactly, my mantra is never to tell someone they are having fun "the wrong way". It's just silly haha.

ANYWAYS... I'm really loving the new Fire Emblem stage with the transformations. Its gorgeous

 

[kraznk1d]

Okay, well said. It's just kind of disheartening for us non-competitive types to see so many pessimistic, overtly negative statements

Why should it be disheartening? Be glad that you are not one of the people affected by Sakurai's design philosophy. But please for the love of God don't shout bullshit and nonsense that doesn't hold under scrutiny, and turn away and close your ears whenever the PEOPLE that you bash defend their opinions about a GAME rationally (This is the majority anti-competitive community). Abusing the tyranny of the majority, to declare your judgment of a group of people unfalsifiable is arrogant and insufferable (like the elitists you claim to see)

Its just a group of people who want smash to be a good FIGHTING game, man. And they know their fucking genre. We can all accept that people want different things without attacking each other.

 

[rekameohs]

edit: just saw the link on the last page for ZSS's final smash. Looks hella strong.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

I'm not sure you can say Sakurai isn't concerned about the competitive community when he's created Final Destination versions of most stages, created the dedicated "For Glory" mode and made certain tweaks that, while still different from Melee, are an improvement over Brawl (I.E. hitstun, wavebouncing, etc). It's a compromise but ultimately a gain over Brawl. And perhaps if it still falls short of Melee in some ways, it'll offer enough in others that people will still find it fun in its own way.

I'm going by the attitude Sakurai has expressed in the past, including at tonight's round table: "Smash is a party game;" "When creating a game, we cannot just appeal to traditional fanbases. We need to reach out to new gamers, and cater to many target users." I don't think he has anything against the competitive community, but they're not his priority. For Glory and FD versions of stages seem more like him throwing a bone to the competitive community since, as many people have pointed out, FD isn't necessarily the most balanced stage for competitive play. I think he wanted Smash 4 to be somewhere between Melee and Brawl, but still closer to Brawl.

 

[Spinluck]

A lot of them seemed to have trouble with items and 4 vs. 4 I was surprised. Items are really not that damn bad to deal with (depending on what character you have I guess).

Very good tournament though. Loved seeing the Mega Man love. The guys at Capcom are fucking idiots.

Would love to see Sakurai put in an easter egg of Mega Man's Final Smash having the caption "Cancellation Dimension", and if the conditions of Sonic not being in the current match are met, there is a 0.05% chance of an extra scene before the Mega Man incarnations appear where you see Sonic making a deal with Satan from Devil World and ordering him to collect the souls of misfit teens and convert them to furries, then releasing him into the world.

What the fuck is with your hate boner for Sonic? It's off putting.

 

[Mik317]

So what kind of impressions do people here even want?

some character impressions would be nice.

But nope continue to talk about Smash Communities and stuff that ultimately doesn't matter for most people.

 

[Delio]

K, I lied. I read a few more posts.

I'm not really sure what this post is getting at, but I was brought up (I'm Team OXY's TheCrimsonBlur in the Smash world), and I'm happy that you find the community inclusive & friendly.

----

The Invitational was super fun, and seeing my friends on stage was a blast. There is a lot to say, but this is a landmark moment in our community's history, and I can't wait for the rest of the summer.

I'd like to ask you something. You say it's a landmark moment yes. But if Smash 4 doesnt pan out like the community wants and a scene never forms but Nintendo wants to keep promoting Smash 4 at other dedicated fighting tournaments what happens then?

Would it just be new players coming in to fill the gaps while the dedicated stick to Melee/Project M? I'm curious on that angle since Nintendo is speaking about taking things on the road.