Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

I already conceded with king k rool being a stage boss now, the dream is dead

make his stage from the final boss fight in DKC1 , the ship and then he randomly runs and throws his crown when showing up
 
H3XAntiStyle said:
Here's my question: Are people getting the impression that the mechanics are not suited to SMASH competitive play, or towards competitive play? Because maybe while the game people are wanting/expecting is different from how he envisions it, he could still be trying to foster a competitive community, just not one based on things like wave-dashing/things like that.
Because I highly doubt that wavedashing was what he had in mind with melee.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm only really caring about impressions on the ability to combo. Though from the sounds of it there's ending lag everywhere so I may not end up enjoying it that much.

But the game will find a good place if it's possible to do cool shit with it. Nobody wants to play turn-based Smash Bros.
 
Justin Timberlake said:
K, I lied. I read a few more posts.

I'm not really sure what this post is getting at, but I was brought up (I'm Team OXY's TheCrimsonBlur in the Smash world), and I'm happy that you find the community inclusive & friendly. :)

----

The Invitational was super fun, and seeing my friends on stage was a blast. There is a lot to say, but this is a landmark moment in our community's history, and I can't wait for the rest of the summer.
Click to expand...

I apologize for the outburst but I grew up with HomeMadeWaffles, Zhu, Kevin Toy, and a lot of the people within the NorCal Smash and FGC scene and it's really offputting to see people act the way they do.

The point I make is that as long as people continue to encourage an elitist mindset that there is only one way to play, the community will not grow or develop to it's potential.

We see alot of the criticism online rather than in person and for those who do not have a local community, online is the only haven for their hobbies.

This kind of attitude isn't productive at all and if there are concerns, they should be made in a way that does not offend nor condescend other players, especially potential newcomers to the scene.

Not only is the outburst embarrassing to them, but it's also embarrassing the the community that makes tournaments, biweeklies, training sessions, etc. possible.
 
Dryk said:
That's why I'm only really caring about impressions on the ability to combo. Though from the sounds of it there's ending lag everywhere so I may not end up enjoying it that much.
Click to expand...
Not sure about ending lag, but I was under the impression people were really liking the combo finishers?
 
I feel like some of you guys are directing your hate towards the wrong people in this thread. I don't see any of those here disappointed in Smash 4 mechanics demeaning Sakurai and his team efforts or that 'elitism' attitude where their way is the right way.

Think I'll just go to bed, try again tomorrow.
 
Neiteio said:
Not sure about ending lag, but I was under the impression people were really liking the combo finishers?
Click to expand...
It may just be that people are trying to use old moves in the old ways when the characters have been changed so that those paths aren't the viable ones anymore. I still hold out hope since I'm not super into Smash that this game will be good enough for me.

EDIT: Let me rephrase that. I'm super into Smash, I'm not super deep into Smash. I'm aware of all the techniques I just can't do them.
 
Delio said:
I'd like to ask you something. You say it's a landmark moment yes. But if Smash 4 doesnt pan out like the community wants and a scene never forms but Nintendo wants to keep promoting Smash 4 at other dedicated fighting tournaments what happens then?

Would it just be new players coming in to fill the gaps while the dedicated stick to Melee/Project M? I'm curious on that angle since Nintendo is speaking about taking things on the road.
Click to expand...

The new Smash game will never develop into a competitive scene or metagame if people do not give it a chance.

We saw this problem happen with Brawl and it would be a shame if the same thing happens to Smash 4.

A competitive metagame does not grow and flesh out with just a year's time and sadly, Brawl wasn't given that chance.

If certain parts of a community doesn't want to support it, there are always people who will find the game's aspects fun and take over.

It's not uncommon to see separate commentators and community leaders as we've seen in the transition between Capcom and Arc System Works fighting games.
 
Delio said:
I'd like to ask you something. You say it's a landmark moment yes. But if Smash 4 doesnt pan out like the community wants and a scene never forms but Nintendo wants to keep promoting Smash 4 at other dedicated fighting tournaments what happens then?

Would it just be new players coming in to fill the gaps while the dedicated stick to Melee/Project M? I'm curious on that angle since Nintendo is speaking about taking things on the road.
Click to expand...

If Nintendo puts money into playing the game competitively, people will play it.
 
Thorakai said:
I'm pretty sure the people displeased about the gameplay mechanics of Smash 4 don't care whether or not the majority players share those concerns. Saying that the majority don't care about the mechanics of x, y, or z is akin to saying a poster's opinion is useless and should not be voiced. Let people express their gratitude and concern. I'm not a competitive player by any means but its super easy to understand their hesitation if you've followed Brawl.

I'm sure people are fully aware of the futility of applying the current Melee meta to Smash 4 and using that as a barometer of gameplay quality. But the same wait-and-see approach was done with Brawl and that didn't turn out well. Having impressions that cement the things they didn't like in Brawl, or even make things worse, would understandably make them upset. It may not impact someone like me who is mostly interested in the party aspects of the game, but it would certainly have a huge effect on the more competitive-oriented players. If you have the expertise to explain why certain changes in mechanics is not so bad then express it as a counterpoint to naysayers. But if you're like me and don't understand diddly squat about these fancy terms then it would be best to just sit back and let people voice their displeasure.
Click to expand...

This is a damn good post.
 
I called that Pac-Man design choice!
 
shunxsato said:
The new Smash game will never develop into a competitive scene or metagame if people do not give it a chance.

We saw this problem happen with Brawl and it would be a shame if the same thing happens to Smash 4.

A competitive metagame does not grow and flesh out with just a year's time and sadly, Brawl wasn't given that chance.

If certain parts of a community doesn't want to support it, there are always people who will find the game's aspects fun and take over.

It's not uncommon to see separate commentators and community leaders as we've seen in the transition between Capcom and Arc System Works fighting games.
Click to expand...

Brawl was given that chance though, I think that's the problem a lot of people are having with this argument.
 
I think Sakurai was clearly uncomfortable with people playing the game. The man must have said 3 times that the game had a lot of polishing left. Folks should seek to share their thoughts with Sakurai instead of judging the game as a finished product on here.

I actually feel like the community should start a Twitter campaign to get his attention, or something. I mentioned this in FGW, but folks could write something like:
#SmashTooSlow
#SpeedSmashUp

Maybe that would get his attention beyond isolated rants.
 
Ya know, some part of me believes fiercely that if Sakurai had not been told/read over and over and over again that the competitive smash scene knows how to make a better game than he does, we'd be seeing more elements returning from melee. I imagine it gets under his skin.

There's no way I can prove it, and there's zero evidence to support this hypothesis, but I think I'm going to irrationally choose to believe it's true. Damn you, obnoxious melee enthusiasts! We could have had the return of L-canceling!
 
-Miis are even better than I wanted them to be. I didn't expect unique moves nor 3 different styles.
-Palutena's reveal and looks are a bit underwhelming, but I'm glad she's in.
-Pac-Man looks great, not sure about the retro sprites though.

Oh and the 3DS version is getting released on my birthday!
 
Delio said:
I'd like to ask you something. You say it's a landmark moment yes. But if Smash 4 doesnt pan out like the community wants and a scene never forms but Nintendo wants to keep promoting Smash 4 at other dedicated fighting tournaments what happens then?

Would it just be new players coming in to fill the gaps while the dedicated stick to Melee/Project M? I'm curious on that angle since Nintendo is speaking about taking things on the road.
Click to expand...

At this point, the competitive Smash community is so large, that we can support multiple games at events. Our dedicated Smash tournaments, outside the FGC or esports arenas, are large enough to foster healthy competitive scenes for each of our games, regardless. In fact, I'd wager our grassroots production has gotten so good that we rival or even exceed our more profitable competitors in many ways.

So, we'll have large-scale tournaments, for all Smash games, no matter what. The community's infrastructure and leadership is too strong at this point to let the games die, especially darlings like Melee or Project M. We'll play Smash 4, and we'll play the older games. I wouldn't worry about it; all signs point to up.
 
Dryk said:
That's why I'm only really caring about impressions on the ability to combo. Though from the sounds of it there's ending lag everywhere so I may not end up enjoying it that much.

But the game will find a good place if it's possible to do cool shit with it. Nobody wants to play turn-based Smash Bros.
Click to expand...

From what I was looking in grand finals it seemed like hitstun isn't cancelled anymore, but a character is knocked back enough that combos will be difficult but you can at least put territorial pressure on them.

That's just an observation though, and it was an event with many first time players in a chaotic playing environment.

A competitive metagame does not grow and flesh out with just a year's time and sadly, Brawl wasn't given that chance.
Click to expand...
Brawl was played for years, but most of what came out of the metagame development were usually increasingly broken things about the game due to how poorly designed it was on a basic level.
 
Ryce said:
aoyS5Vu.jpg
Click to expand...


HOLD B TO GO BACK! No more accidental backing out of CSS.
 
Beelzebufo said:
Brawl was given that chance though, I think that's the problem a lot of people are having with this argument.
Click to expand...

A year is definitely not enough to completely develop a metagame and the negative spread of word was partly why it failed.

Tekken Tag Tournament 2 is not even close to being fleshed out.

If people actually try to give a new game a chance and enjoy playing it, then a metagame will develop.

Brawl suffered from people enjoying the game and others looking down on them because it was "technically inferior".

Had they given it more of a chance, we might as well have seen more people play and more of an interest in it.

I myself am not a fan of Brawl but I do not go out of my way to completely put it under a negative light at all.
 
Mista Koo said:
-Miis are even better than I wanted them to be. I didn't expect unique moves nor 3 different styles.
-Palutena's reveal and looks are a bit underwhelming, but I'm glad she's in.
-Pac-Man looks great, not sure about the retro sprites though.

Oh and the 3DS version is getting released on my birthday!
Click to expand...
I'll be interested to see what you think of Palutena after some time has passed and you revisit her trailer. I just did so tonight, and while I was cool with her reveal -- she was my No. 1 most wanted character, after all -- it only just now really clicked with me. She looks GREAT. And I like how all of her moves are based on the powers you could use in Kid Icarus Uprising. I never considered they might reference those, but it makes perfect sense -- they're powers provided by the gods, after all. :-)
 
shunxsato said:
The new Smash game will never develop into a competitive scene or metagame if people do not give it a chance.

We saw this problem happen with Brawl and it would be a shame if the same thing happens to Smash 4.

A competitive metagame does not grow and flesh out with just a year's time and sadly, Brawl wasn't given that chance.

If certain parts of a community doesn't want to support it, there are always people who will find the game's aspects fun and take over.

It's not uncommon to see separate commentators and community leaders as we've seen in the transition between Capcom and Arc System Works fighting games.
Click to expand...

I'm hopeful Smash 4 will have more of a shot than Brawl did. Brawl kinda blindsided a lot of people with just how different it was. Now people understand this new direction for the series and I'm hopeful they will really give the finished product a real shot.
 
Busaiku said:
Man, going by the Gematsu leak...
Why would they not have Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, or ROB.

So lame.
Click to expand...

Um, they're obviously just talking about the new characters.

It didn't mention any veterans whatsoever until the thing about Lucas, so I don't see why you think it means those characters are cut.
 
The Great Gonzales said:
I'm going by the attitude Sakurai has expressed in the past, including at tonight's round table: "Smash is a party game;" "When creating a game, we cannot just appeal to traditional fanbases. We need to reach out to new gamers, and cater to many target users." I don't think he has anything against the competitive community, but they're not his priority. For Glory and FD versions of stages seem more like him throwing a bone to the competitive community since, as many people have pointed out, FD isn't necessarily the most balanced stage for competitive play. I think he wanted Smash 4 to be somewhere between Melee and Brawl, but still closer to Brawl.
Click to expand...

The thing I don't get is that he can have both. I know this because he has had both with Melee. All the Smash games have been great party games. The vast majority of people that play it will never know anything about competitive smash and it'll never effect them.

It's like it comes from the people that complain about competitive players that "spend hours learning cheap techniques". Guess what, even if those techniques didn't exist those players would still be better than you because they put in the time. That's how games work. You can't make an engaging game where the players are never supposed to get better at it.
 
friskykillface said:
I already conceded with king k rool being a stage boss now, the dream is dead

make his stage from the final boss fight in DKC1 , the ship and then he randomly runs and throws his crown when showing up
Click to expand...

Why would they bring back a stage from 1994 if he weren't going to be playable? You have to think they decide on stages first and foremost, not bosses.
 
Busaiku said:
Man, going by the Gematsu leak...
Why would they not have Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, or ROB.

So lame.
Click to expand...
The Gematsu leak never ruled out Ice Climbers, G&W or ROB. The Gematsu leak only talked about newcomers. The only veteran it mentioned was Lucas. In his case, it said there was talk of possibly cutting him. The latest leak also said there has been talk of character DLC, so even if Lucas were out, DLC could bring him back in.

In fact, since Lucas was the only one mentioned in the leak as "up for cuts," perhaps the implication there is everyone else returns?
 
KittenMaster said:
From what I was looking in grand finals it seemed like hitstun isn't cancelled anymore, but a character is knocked back enough that combos will be difficult but you can at least put territorial pressure on them.

That's just an observation though, and it was an event with many first time players in a chaotic playing environment.

Brawl was played for years, but most of what came out of the metagame development were usually increasingly broken things about the game due to how poorly designed it was on a basic level.
Click to expand...
Now I'm not super well versed on how to talk about Smash technically but the main problem I had with Brawl was that as soon as I tried to follow up on pretty much anything I'd get punished for it, leading to "hit them, wait for them to come back, hit them". I don't know if that's widely experienced or disappears when you get better but that's the main thing that makes me like Melee more. You can actually hit someone away and then immediately apply pressure with another attack or running after them before they can recover.
 
I can tell you I watch competitive smash because of the skill of the players not because of who they are. Smash 4 looks beautiful and is a game I want to play, which is why I'm hype for it. As far as Smash games go Brawl is EASILY my favorite to play with my friends and family simply because of the roster and who is on it.

If I was going to play a tournament I would still play in melee because I've taken the time to be good at it, and that is what the player want. They, being pro players, want HD melee because they have invested SO much time into their rules/meta/tech skill that they want all of those things or the game is bad. It's not surprising to me when you see people crying out that it's not the same or things have been nerfed. No one likes it when they can't play "broken" or over powered things anymore anyway.

Smash4 will do the same thing brawl did to melee, but at a much shorter amount of time. People who like melee will try smash4 to see if they like it, and when they find a complaint or that they can't do something or we finally discover Metaknight 2.0 (my guess is on ZSS) is when they will go back to melee.
 
Oh, I guess that's true.
I just assumed that they meant that the final roster would consist of what was already shown and then those news.
 
A lot of competitive and casual Smash fans would be a lot happier if they learned to accept different people hold different opinions and are allowed to voice their concerns whatever they may be. The constant telling others how they should have fun and the douchey attitudes on both sides are a major turn off to participating in discussions about this series.

Also, since I missed it...OMG PAC-MAN!
 
Rather than fight back against the negative comments by putting down the complaints, fight them by talking about what's new, exciting and cooler.

Not said:
Okay, well said. It's just kind of disheartening for us non-competitive types to see so many pessimistic, overtly negative statements
Click to expand...

This is neogaf, there are plenty of pessimistic, negative statements haha. The impressions bummed me out but don't let that kill your mood if they don't bother you. Enjoy!



Anyway this place is basically catching fire so I'm out! Smash Bros is a cool video game.
 
shunxsato said:
A year is definitely not enough to completely develop a metagame and the negative spread of word was partly why it failed.

Tekken Tag Tournament 2 is not even close to being fleshed out.

If people actually try to give a new game a chance and enjoy playing it, then a metagame will develop.

Brawl suffered from people enjoying the game and others looking down on them because it was "technically inferior".

Had they given it more of a chance, we might as well have seen more people play and more of an interest in it.

I myself am not a fan of Brawl but I do not go out of my way to completely put it under a negative light at all.
Click to expand...

Brawl remained the main Smash game until 2012 or so, the idea that Melee immediately took hold again is absurd
 
Busaiku said:
Oh, I guess that's true.
I just assumed that they meant that the final roster would consist of what was already shown and then those news.
Click to expand...
Nope, the Gematsu leaks have only spoken of newcomers, with the exception of the one note about debate over Lucas.

It seems very clear to me the leaks are legit. The question, then, is when we might see Chrom, Shulk, and Chorus Men, and what other newcomers, if any, there may be.
 
Captain Toad and the main Inkling girl are perfect DLC characters based on the new games announced today. I barely put any thought into these moves, but it shows that they're readily adaptable to Smash Bros.

CAPTAIN TOAD

Standard Special Move - Headlamp
A bright flash of light briefly stuns the opponent at close range.

Side Special Move - Pickaxe
Captain Toad moves forward while swinging his pickaxe like the hammer item, but it's much weaker, obviously.

Up Special Move - Cannon
Captain Toad launches at an upward arc out of a cannon.

Down Special Move - Vegetable
He pulls a vegetable out of the ground like Peach, but he holds it overhead.

Final Smash - Toad Brigade
A couple of Toads appear and help attack the opponents.

INKLING

Standard Special Move - Paint Shot
She fires a shot of paint from her gun.

Side Special Move - Paint Grenade
She shoots a grenade from her gun that explodes with paint after a few seconds.

Up Special Move - Super-Jump
She does a high jump while moving forward and spinning.

Down Special Move - Squid
Turn "invisible" by blending into the paint that you've left on the stage.

Final Smash - Paint Bazooka
She fires successive bursts of paint from her gun.

I'm really high on Splatoon. EAD hasn't made a new character-based IP in years.
 
Justin Timberlake said:
At this point, the competitive Smash community is so large, that we can support multiple games at events. Our dedicated Smash tournaments, outside the FGC or esports arenas, are large enough to foster healthy competitive scenes for each of our games, regardless. In fact, I'd wager our grassroots production has gotten so good that we rival or even exceed our more profitable competitors in many ways.

So, we'll have large-scale tournaments, for all Smash games, no matter what. The community's infrastructure and leadership is too strong at this point to let the games die, especially darlings like Melee or Project M. We'll play Smash 4, and we'll play the older games. I wouldn't worry about it; all signs point to up.
Click to expand...

That's good to know. Melee or Smash 4 I dont mind it's always fun watching matches at high levels for me. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Super Smash Bros mod adds Nintendo cease and desist letter as playable character
9
218
ecosse_011172 replied
Super Mario Bros. Wonder Switch 2 Edition out in Spring 2026
News 
22
576
Zacfoldor replied
Super Mario Bros Sequel Movie Titled "Super Mario World"
20
1K
E-Cat replied
What if the WII U was successful?
2
53
557
Alan Wake replied
Super Mario Galaxy 2 - Switch 2 vs Wii Direct Comparison
2 3 4 5
207
910
Panajev2001a replied
Top Bottom