Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

Aaronrules380 said:
Also, I'd be curious on what percentage of the people playing Brawl who AREN'T in any way acquainted with the competitive scene think of it compared to Melee. I kind of feel like the melee preference is something that mostly exists in Super enthusiasts and the core crowd (and I think this is also in part due to group think for many). It's hard to gauge what the overall opinion on Brawl is when the people talking about it online all belong to a single category of gamers
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This is just anecdotal, but... Most people I know IRL who I've seen mention their preference prefer Melee over Brawl. These are mainly casuals, too.

Their reasoning has little to do with competitive stuff. Their reasoning is actually almost always the same and pretty simple: "Brawl is slow and boring." That is what it comes down to them. They don't really care that there isn't wavedashing or anything. They just find Melee to be fast and crazy and Brawl to be really slow.

So I guess they'll probably like Smash 4 a lot as long as it doesn't feel "slow".
 
ErrorMacro said:
Do I agree with it? Certainly not. I think its completely possible to create a game that plays well both casually and competitively, and if there's one point where I deeply wish Sakurai would improve is in how he interacts and accepts criticism of the community. People can blame him for that as much as they want, but acting like he does this out of spite is pure conspiracy theory.
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I've seen the community be pretty venomous to Sakurai. Maybe it's outliers and not representative of the community as a whole, but it definitely exists.

We've seen Sakurai is aware of how people are talking about his games online - too much would be coincidence otherwise. The degree to which he's been cordial after reading what he must have been reading is probably more than I'd be capable of.
 
ReiGun said:
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Huey Duck.
 
PreyingShark said:
This is just anecdotal, but... Most people I know IRL who I've seen mention their preference prefer Melee over Brawl. These are mainly casuals, too.

Their reasoning has little to do with competitive stuff. Their reasoning is actually almost always the same and pretty simple: "Brawl is slow and boring." That is what it comes down to them. They don't really care that there isn't wavedashing or anything. They just find Melee to be fast and crazy and Brawl to be really slow.

So I guess they'll probably like Smash 4 a lot as long as it doesn't feel "slow".
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How many of those people participate a lot in the gaming community though? Because there's a shit ton of group think that goes on in the gaming community in general. And you're being just as anecdotal as I am. And honestly, I'm not sure about this. I was just posing the question
 
So it's been confirmed that all characters have 12 specials like the Miis right? (Three for each special.) Is there any other info on this? Usable in For Fun, etc?
 
Had to wait 2 hours to demo the game at my local Best Buy. Line was from the back of the store to the entrance and they had to turn down people after two hours.

Originally it seemed they were letting the 3DS demos do Smash Run and then 2 rounds of Wii U FFA but that was taking up too long so by the time I got there it was just 1 round of timed FFA on each.

3DS version: Not sure why but my session there was so much slowdown the first half of the match. Picked Mega Man and just from sheer muscle memory I couldn't get myself to tap forward and A to charge the Mega Buster. Still wound up winning. Blue bomber seems like a character you really need to play a lot with.

Wii U version: Damn beautiful and silky smooth, not a hitch the entire time. I picked Samus Aran (Varia suit) and I can definitely see that she's been buffed big time. Charge Shot seemed to charge quicker and the projectile portion seemed faster and to KO at lower percentages. Not as floaty as Brawl. Missiles seem to be much improved. Wound up winning this as well.

Awesome job Nintendo and Best Buy but I think they both severely underestimated the hype for this game. They should've had at least 4 Wii U's and even more 3DSes available. People I talked to drove hours to get to the store. Crazy!
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I've seen the community be pretty venomous to Sakurai. Maybe it's outliers and not representative of the community as a whole, but it definitely exists.

We've seen Sakurai is aware of how people are talking about his games online - too much would be coincidence otherwise. The degree to which he's been cordial after reading what he must have been reading is probably more than I'd be capable of.
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When you get a bunch of people who have all have a negative opinion on a thing together, they'll escalate that opinion. So what might start as mild annoyance becomes rage and hate as they keep reinforcing each other's opinions. THis is a known psychological phenomenon. As is the idea that other people who join into this group will become influenced by these people's opinions
 
Here are my thoughts on the characters that I've played at Smash Fest:

-Mega Man feels rock-solid. His Super Arm grab ability works surprisingly well, and I was able to get a couple of kills after chucking my opponent straight up into the air. He has a wide range of abilities, which will make him to be a force to be reckon with, especially with in the right hands. While his Final Smash doesn't have any killing power, it does do a large chunk of damage, especially when you get multiple opponents in the Black Hole Bomb. The only bummer is that he doesn't seem to have any powerful finishers, but I need to toy around with him some more.

-Bowser feels the best of both worlds: A fighter who is fast & packs a mighty punch. I still need to figure out what kind of game plan he has, but all in due time. Like others have already mentioned, Bowser is VASTLY improved over his Melee & Brawl counterparts.

-The Villager is.... Weird. Most of his abilities & moves are unconventional, and it was hard to figure out a good set-up.
 
Church RvB said:
So it's been confirmed that all characters have 12 specials like the Miis right? (Three for each special.) Is there any other info on this? Usable in For Fun, etc?
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Only Palutena has Mii style customization with unique moves; I haven't played Kid Icarus (yet!) but based on what others have said, this is because her moves are from that game's multiplayer? Everyone else only has slight variations, and I believe the only ones we know for sure are Mario's from the roundtable video.

I think none of the non-Palutena customization is available online, but I'm not sure if that means just available in playing with friends or not at all.
 
I tried out the game after waiting 2 hours to play. I gotta say that the game felt great. The villagers slingshot felt a little to good but other than that the game looked and felt faster than brawl
 
PreyingShark said:
This is just anecdotal, but... Most people I know IRL who I've seen mention their preference prefer Melee over Brawl. These are mainly casuals, too.

Their reasoning has little to do with competitive stuff. Their reasoning is actually almost always the same and pretty simple: "Brawl is slow and boring." That is what it comes down to them. They don't really care that there isn't wavedashing or anything. They just find Melee to be fast and crazy and Brawl to be really slow.

So I guess they'll probably like Smash 4 a lot as long as it doesn't feel "slow".
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Just as anecdotal is my experience that my playgroup disliked melee for similar reasons, as crazy as it may sound, we practically jumped from 64 to Brawl which made us dislike Melee even more, and those who played Melee adapted to Brawl.

None of us has noted Smash 4 as much faster than Brawl

We are a 4 players free-for.all, all items on high group we only play no items final once each pairing at the end of the session.
 
Aaronrules380 said:
Pretty sure he means more that if you only target veteran players then you'll be left with something that has new players feeling left out.
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New players didn't feel left out with Melee. It was a party game with immense depth. If you're a new player, you don't have any basis of comparison anyway. If you're a "casual", then you don't care about the subtle technicalities of the game.

I've said this before, but Sakurai can satisfy everyone by simply providing Smash 4 with the depth that was present in Melee, but he seems highly resistant to that notion.

He seemingly wants to normalize the skill gap and prevent more experienced players from having any sort of competitive advantage over newer or more casual players. This is akin to lowering a ceiling so the average joe would be able to jump as high as an NBA player, or removing the deep end of a pool simply because you don't want anyone to drown.

From a developmental or engineering standpoint, the game can certainly change before release. However, I feel Sakurai's design philosophy will ultimately prevent that from happening, and we'll be left with a Smash game that mimics the current iteration.
 
HawthorneKitty said:
Yeah, mine was like that too; don't know how closely they will honor pre-orders during release.
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They told us to just go to CS to pre-order. So I did.

Then they gave me a pre-order card at the end because I liked the art and asked if I could have one. I'm going to cut off the pre-order stuff and put it up somewhere.
 
I don't want Sakurai to leave, but hypothetically, is there anyone you think could replace him?

Kamiya-developed Smash?

We getting a pic tonight you think? Would love if Sakurai throws in a veteran for E3 like GW.
 
Cse said:
New players didn't feel left out with Melee. It was a party game with immense depth. If you're a new player, you don't have any basis of comparison anyway. If you're a "casual", then you don't care about the subtle technicalities of the game.

I've said this before, but Sakurai can satisfy everyone by simply providing Smash 4 with the depth that was present in Melee, but he seems highly resistant to that notion.

He seemingly wants to normalize the skill gap and prevent more experienced players from having any sort of competitive advantage over newer or more casual players. This is akin to lowering a ceiling so the average joe would be able to jump as high as an NBA player, or removing the deep end of a pool simply because you don't want anyone to drown.

From a developmental or engineering standpoint, the game can certainly change before release. However, I feel Sakurai's design philosophy will ultimately prevent that from happening, and we'll be left with a Smash game that mimics the current iteration.
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Except I've seen new players who did feel left out in Melee. The problem here is we're all going in as gamers who are probably mostly friends with other gamers. So of course what we see is a lot of opinions that mirror our own. You don't see those people talk about Smash because they didn't get into it and probably aren't the type to go on gaming discussion boards
 
Okay, folks. So I played the game quite a bit for the past two days, and as Parallax briefly mentioned yesterday, I was severely disappointed.

Sakurai straight up lied about saying the speed was between Melee and Brawl. The man deceived us all. The speed is nigh identical with Brawl. If you would have told me SSB4 was an upressed SSBB, I'd honestly believe it. The movements, the explosions, the stupid slow motion shit when the timer runs out, all exactly the same. So much for everyone saying we didn't need to worry cause it was being developed by the Soul Calibur/Tekken team and they'd make sure Sakurai didn't do anything stupid.

If you're a fan of SSBB, this is probably great news. If you're not however....yeah. I'm sorry to say that finding out about this pretty much ruined my entire E3.
 
Also, anyone who says skill doesn't matter in Brawl is spouting absolute bullshit. The point was never to eliminate skill, it was to make it so that new comers win a match here and there instead of constantly losing and ragequitting because of it.
 
SUPERJEM94 said:
Me and 4 other friends got to try out the demo. We waited for 4 hours, but it was worth it. SO much fun. Enjoy!
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AdanVC said:
Oh my god that ending!! No other game can cause this levels of hype than Smash (And dat awesome Megaman Final Smash, damn.) Thank you for sharing!
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No problem! It just makes me even more excited to play the full game!
Oh and I forgot to mention that we even tried the 3DS version as well.
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ShockingAlberto said:
I've seen the community be pretty venomous to Sakurai. Maybe it's outliers and not representative of the community as a whole, but it definitely exists.

We've seen Sakurai is aware of how people are talking about his games online - too much would be coincidence otherwise. The degree to which he's been cordial after reading what he must have been reading is probably more than I'd be capable of.
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Yes. It's not really that I think he despises competitive play in and of itself, but its the way the community's more vocal members come off to him. That dumbass tourney player at the roundtable last night did NOT help his cause. It may not even be fully conscious at a "lets screw them" level, but it just makes him dig his heels in more when people act like they can just walk in off the street and help make a multi-million dollar product.
 
Tookay said:
It's the same mindset that brought you "Mii Fighter isn't playable online because of bullying."

Sakurai's a genius but his thought process is a little... eccentric.
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Is that what he said regarding the Mii Fighter? I thought it might have been balance issues since they were made with 36 special moves in mind. Playing online with friends is possible, I think. I have seen a lot of crazy looking Mii's but nothing that really stuck out as crazy offensive outside of some racist ones.
 
k_Reign said:
Just in case anyone is still being a Negative Nancy or worrying about the game:

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27xlt8/im_both_a_melee_veteran_and_a_game_designer_im/
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Being able to say "it's still early, the game can still change" isn't the most encouraging thing. I skimmed through most of it quickly, but from what I gathered, that was the gist. I didn't see M3D highlighting any positives, just saying that the game is still in development and we can still offer feedback. Isn't that just reinforcing the notion that the game, as it is now, is flawed? I'm personally not very hopeful for significant changes. At best, slight reduction to aerial lag. But amazing things could always happen.

I agree though that we, as a whole (myself of course included) should be more appreciative of Nintendo reaching out to the community at all.
 
Mannn does Smash Run look cool. On the off chance I get a chance to go to the Smash Fest again this weekend I am definitely going to see if I can't try it out. I swear every time I watch a video some kind of new enemy shows up - the sheer variety they have is amazingly great.
 
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