Which they removed in AC unity.
Developers call out Ubisoft on their stance regarding playable female characters
- Thread starter MagicWithEarvin
- Start date
I love how both, realism and artistic freedom, are everytime used as an excuse to not represent gamers.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Is there any indication that element is still in it?
The Librarian
Banned
If seamless multiplayer is becoming popular, then I think developers should start making changes that accommodate female videogame players.
Fair enough!
marlowesghost
Member
Oh. Historical wise. I see we have a scholar on our hands. Also, the world can still be a terrible place for women and minorities. It didn't just happen, as you so brilliantly put it, back then.
figadapaura
Member
It's nothing like choose your own adventure though.
Zoe
Member
Sorry, but magic gender swapping is going too far in a series that never had anything of the sort.
No one is attacking developer, you seem to be operating under the assumption that we are demanding something in an irrational manner in a bullying manner, is it really that absurd to see people that pay for a product with their hard earned cash to demand more of what they want and less of what they dont from it? What makes this logic so accepted in movies, cars and real life and yet this is frowed upon in the game industry by a few?
Also, all games are done by committee and specially Ubisoft's, stop with this bullshit narrative that people that want things from games are somehow stunting the growth of the industry when in most cases its the opposite.
But even within the game world's canon, everything you do in the Animus is inside a video game. It's a modifiable digital world. That's the conceit as they present it and they abuse it whenever it's convenient for story or gameplay reasons, so arguing realism prevents women from existing within the game doesn't really work.
Didn't you know? Women and minorities just existing within media is the radical act of a social agenda.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The main problem is that so many people don't understand because no journalist wrote an article with the headline "You always play as Arno." And the ones that mention it have click bait headlines instead of explicitly stating "You always play as Arno." I could only find one with a respectable title.
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...male-assassins-lacking-explained-by-director/
Impeccable
Member
Fucking games "journalism".
Ascenion
Member
Men and women are probably represented in Unity. You do not have to control a character for them to be represented. You also shouldn't have to make a player character female for women to feel represented in a particular game. Yes there absolutely should be playable female characters and protagonists, but they shouldn't be forced for the hell of it. I mean have strong supporting characters from all backgrounds but the protagonist of a story is the writers choice. Some games offer you a choice in gender. This one doesn't and it shouldn't be forced to.
So far not. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is. And when there's really zero representation of female assassins aiding you, then i would take issue with that.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Don't cherry pick. Read the WHOLE explanation as to why that's not possible in this game.
TheWatchGuard
Banned
I give up every game from now on will have any type of character besides a white male because frankly we're getting tired of the whining. Evidence has been shown and people refuse it, the GAF community is about as mature as the GameFAQ community.
Zoe
Member
It's been established that multiplayer is handled differently this time.
Wiktor
Member
If logic or setting consistency are worthless to you, can't you just pretend there's a woman under the hood that just happens to have a bit manly voice?
The Librarian
Banned
figadapaura
Member
How is this a reasonable response to my post?
Symax
Member
The coop mode is seamlessly integrated in to the single player experience.Therefore you always play as the main Character. It's a game design decision and not a stance on female rights.
Also some folks in here seem to criticize the gender choice for the main character of the game. That doesnt make sense. Gender equality works both ways. It is not as much important IF women are represented in fictional story focused games, but HOW they are represented. Characters with stereotypical gender roles are the problem not the ratio between female and male characters! Speaking of Stereotypical gender roles: In my experience most male and female characters in games are equally horrible and "equally horrible" is not a progress towards gender equality.
Also some folks in here seem to criticize the gender choice for the main character of the game. That doesnt make sense. Gender equality works both ways. It is not as much important IF women are represented in fictional story focused games, but HOW they are represented. Characters with stereotypical gender roles are the problem not the ratio between female and male characters! Speaking of Stereotypical gender roles: In my experience most male and female characters in games are equally horrible and "equally horrible" is not a progress towards gender equality.
Uh.. you missed the part where you always view your character as him, but in co op, other people see your character as some different character (which means they aren't so integral to the story.
And you missed where I said I want my character to appear female to everyone else (I want to play a female assassin when it comes to playing the non main character).
matrixman92
Member
i dont care about this...day one buy
It will not be the case. For you, you are playing a mission as Arno helped by three other assassins. There isn't 4 Arno in your game. And it's the same for every one.
In the same idea that when you are doing an online race in Watch Dogs, you are playing as Aiden Pierce against 7 fixers, not against 7 Aiden Pierce.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You don't genderswap in multiplayer. You play as an actual ancestor who has their own backstory and plot progression. If Ubisoft wanted to, they could create a story mode for every single MP character included in their MP in brotherhood, revelations, 3, and 4. However, the story of the multiplayer is that Abstergo is using the "bleeding effect" to train their agents to hunt down the rest of the modern day assassins.
Zoe
Member
Yes. People don't change genders at the blink of an eye. I find that preposterous.
The Librarian
Banned
Not cherry-picking. That's essentially what it comes down to, dude. And if people don't bring up this issue then nothing will change. Maybe it won't change for this game, but hopefully it will for the next.
Another dead end story!
Who cares?
What business is it of other developers?
Making a mountain out of a mole hill as usual!
uh...good for you?
But there are people who do. So posting this doesn't really add anything to the conversation.
e: Oh wow, banned right when I made this post. Well done, mods.
Ascenion
Member
Oh, I see what you're saying. I guess they could offer DLC skins, but females just don't have separate animation.
I distinguish between character, plot, and setting style decisions on one hand and content delivery and gameplay mechanisms on the other.
It's a case by case basis for me purely. For GTA I get the impression that Dan Houser either can not or does not want to write a female lead. That's fine. It's his business, his inspiration or whatever, and he shouldn't be bashed for it.
He isn't the tragedy. The tragedy is there aren't more games on the level of GTA's production values that have different writers that can or want to write female lead characters. Forcing Dan Houser to do something he doesn't want to do or taking his work and then messing with it in committee later to force inclusion of a female lead are bad attempts at solving the problem.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
OK, the way it is now. When you play multiplayer, you see yourself as Arno. Other people see you as a completely different person. Now... What difference does it make if other people in their own game are see you as a woman? You're already not being seen as your Arno. You're random Assassin from their world.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You don't customize your online gender or your online character. You only customize Arno. But they all have the same body as the main character. A female with that body would not look convincing. A female in those outfits wouldn't look convincing. They shouldn't have to recreate/redesign/rig all the outfits, gear, weapons in the game to accommodate a female character when YOU don't even see yourself that way.
WHile I would like to see more games with females as main characters, I have no problem with a game with a male character staying male if it is a very specific story to that character (but I'd also like to encourage more companies to try doing female characters as main leads as well. ANd don't give me Tomb raider, the fact that it's the same game everyone uses to say, "oh, but there is games like that" says how few games there are like that).
But, yes, if a game lets you make your own character, then yes, I am going to be upset if they don't put female as an option. That's not asking every game to be make your own character, that's asking if it is make your own character, then female should be a very obvious option!
I suppose that's different. Since I kept seeing that it was make your own character, I assumed that meant the avatar that others see you as (as they don't see you as Arno from what I understand). So I'm taking it you have no control over who you look like to other people as you don't look like the main character to other players in my understanding? Kinda sucky in its own way but in a different way (I would like to customize how people saw me in other games, and yes, if I can customize the character I play to other people, I do think I should be able to pick female as one of the options).
Though honestly if they don't allow you to choose what character you are seen as by other players, I could more understand the no time explanation (I assume making a character creator for that is a lot different than just putting in a female option in a character creator. And yes, I would expect just changing clothes and weapons really isn't the same as a real character creator).
I already addressed your other points above, but I will point out that yes, it does matter to me how other people view my character even if I don't see it. I mean what's the point of customizing colors of my character in borderlands when it's mostly a first person shooter and I barely ever see her. I do it more for how i look when playing co op with people.
NegativeCero
Banned
I'm glad people are calling them on their bullshit. It's all too easy to fall back on excuses rather than just say "we didn't want to make female playable characters."
But isn't the idea behind the co-op presumably that other developers/assassins/templars are logging into the Animus to join you inside the same man's memory? Or are they entirely different people being logged into through the Animus? People who are a part of the history of your character... only when your friend is around.
If your friend logs off, does the other assassin blink out of existence in the game world?
All of this is totally acceptable for gameplay reasons, but women are pushing things too far?
figadapaura
Member
One (or two) of the perks in multiplayer actually allow you to change gender (well, character) for a brief period.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No, in their world, you're still wearing the same outfit, using the same gear, using the same animations as them. The only thing that changes is the face. Arno does not look anything like a female. And the outfits certainly aren't designed with females in mind.
Zoe
Member
She's asking for her character, her Arno, to be male one second and female the next.
blankempathy
Member
It seems to me that Ubisofts biggest problem is that they're trying to meet a deadline. The core issue here is that multiplayer is gone. With no competitive multiplayer that means no female assassin's. I think they really wanted to get co-op into this game either to do something different or because everyone else is doing it and its popular. Thanks to that it seems to be either co-op or multiplayer not both. Well obviously working on competitive multiplayer mode would be more work. You'd have to create more maps, put in a multiplayer system etc. Since they apparently don't have the resourced for that it was cut. Also remember apparently they're working on another ac game for last gen systems too. After all you have to maximize those profits right? At the same time it seems they wanted to create a next gen only ac experience. All while trying to meet a late october deadline. It seems they have mismanaged their resources by trying to have them do too much. Considering we havent really seen anything about AC for last gen I have a feeling that games going to get pushed back. This seems to be a workload issues. While I don't think thats an excuse because frankly its their own damn fault its not surprising we're going to see content cut. And you know what the consumer is partially to blame. We're all so eager to buy up these yearly releases or games that are clearly not ready but are put out that we've accepted these practices of "ship now fix later". I also know that these games arent made in a year either or they have other teams working on the same ip. At the same time thats clearly not enough to properly handle the development of some of these games. We've seen how buggy games can get last year and how many patches/day one patches go out that its the norm now.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You don't have perks like that during SP. The co-op gameplay is the same as the SP gameplay except with other players. In fact, you can do every single one of them by yourself.
Putosaure
Member
Ubisoft response to this was not really smart.
But I don't understand, why not having that kind of debate for every game that is going to be on shelves next months ?
Why not a female character in the next Uncharted ? Why always male characters in GTA ?
The fact that a majority of female players now want to be able to immerse themselves through a female protagonist is cool, but we should apply this thinking to all games, not only ACV...
But I don't understand, why not having that kind of debate for every game that is going to be on shelves next months ?
Why not a female character in the next Uncharted ? Why always male characters in GTA ?
The fact that a majority of female players now want to be able to immerse themselves through a female protagonist is cool, but we should apply this thinking to all games, not only ACV...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Does anyone actually want this? I don't think there would be any less of a backlash if you couldn't play as a woman but other players saw you as one.
Attack, criticize, same difference. And when it comes to matters of plot, character development etc. I do think it's an incredibly bad idea to badger creators to not create what they want. This applies to this game, SP:SOT, GTA:V etc.
I don't think they are at all. And again as I pointed out earlier, you can't just swap a female skin in place of Ezio in AC2 and have the result work at all. I can easily see the same being true for Arno in AC V.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Ah see, THIS is the whole issue. They were planning to do it. But decided like you, it wasn't important. WE are saying that that's BS, and it was a cool feature and it sucks that they cut it out because they didn't want to devote time on new art that would have added diversity. You may not see it as important, but we do. We disagree.
I would. I would even love it more if you could pick how people see you in multiplayer.
figadapaura
Member
Yes, but you said you can't genderswap in multiplayer. I'm telling you that you actually can, so it's not like story-wise it's impossible.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's not essentially what it comes down to because I literally explained in every step why it can't be done given the legacy of this series and what they're going for and you say "nope, just change it" as if it's some trivial thing that can be changed easily. It's not an issue, it's people who don't know about game development being misinformed by journalists.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Do invaders in Watch_Dogs appear as both female and male?