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[dripdripsplash]

@MattMcBradley
Middle East correspondent for The Wall Street Journal focusing on Egypt and Iraq.

Many refugees on the border with KRG today told me they had fled Mosul out of fear of the government's response, not ISIS. #Iraq

I think alot of people are busy with mindless swearing instead of being objective and civil.

It's kinda cringe worthy to see all these "i hope you die" etc posts. He has provided evidence for his claims. Bring your own.

This is NeoGAF guys.

 

[thefro]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/iran...s-in-iraq-iranian-security-sources-1402592470

Iranian forces are on the ground fighting ISIS now... they have taken 85% of Tikrit

BEIRUT, Lebanon—Iran deployed Revolutionary Guard forces to fight in Iraq, helping government troops there wrest back control of most of the city of Tikrit from militants, Iranian security sources said.

Two battalions of the Quds Forces, the overseas branch of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps that has long operated in Iraq, came to the aid of the besieged, Shiite-dominated government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, they said.

Combined Iraqi-Iranian forces retook control of 85% of Tikrit, the birthplace of former dictator Saddam Hussein, according to Iraqi and Iranian security sources.

They were helping guard the capital Baghdad and the two Shiite holy cities of Najaf and Karbala, which have been threatened by the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, an al Qaeda offshoot. The Sunni militant group's lightning offensive has thrown Iraq into its worse turmoil since the sectarian fighting that followed the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

Shiite Iran has also positioned troops along its border with Iraq and promised to bomb rebel forces if they come within 100 kilometers, or 62 miles, of Iran's border, according to an Iranian army general.

In addition, Iran was considering the transfer to Iraq of Iranian troops fighting for the regime in Syria if the initial deployments fail to turn the tide of battle in favor of Mr. Maliki's government.

Also protecting some of the Shiite shrines:

The two IRGC battalions moved to Iraq on Wednesday were shifted from the Iranian border provinces of Urumieh and Lorestan. Their task is to help secure the holy Shiite cities of Karbala and Najaf and tighten security around Baghdad, according to IRGC members in Iran.

 

[Buzzman]

I think alot of people are busy with mindless swearing instead of being objective and civil.


It's kinda cringe worthy to see all these "i hope you die" etc posts. He has provided evidence for his claims. Bring your own.

This is NeoGAF guys.

I don't give a fuck about being civil with this piece of shit. He is literally advocating for the group that brutally oppresses and slaughters innocents in the name of god. ISIS and their brethren are a plague upon this world. They spread death and misery all around them. They are evil in its purest form.

 

[dapperbandit]

And shit flinging and personal attacks are the reason we don't have a Syria OT anymore

 

[speculawyer]

I think its to blame a large part on their ideology but be careful with Islam = Radical Islam. Its like saying the catholic church is responsible for the Branch Dividians or the KKK. Islam is a giant tent full of many ideologies.

Islam is certainly NOT the same as radical Islam. Nor is Christianity the same as fundamentalist Christianity.

I just think the tenets of Islam make it a religion that is easier to go extremist with and the observed evidence seems to support that.

I guess if someone wants to call me an Islamophobe, they can. I am a bit afraid of Islam. I'm not afraid of the vast vast majority of Muslims. But I am afraid of the way Islam seems to be easily and often interpreted in ways that are harmful to women, gays, apostates, non muslims, cartoonists, etc. I guess you could call me a Christianphobe too . . . but at a lower level.

 

[RustyNails]

I think alot of people are busy with mindless swearing instead of being objective and civil.

It's kinda cringe worthy to see all these "i hope you die" etc posts. He has provided evidence for his claims. Bring your own.

This is NeoGAF guys.

I dont think I can be nice to a poster who supports ISIS and their actions. You understand this is an emotional for a lot of us. I am a fully practicing Muslim. I dont go by labels but I fall in Sunni side of things if you really want to categorize. Seeing these ISIS demons butcher innocent passer-bys and civilians suspected of being Shia or Kurd has me raging something fierce, and then seeing imbecils defend their actions is the tipping point of abhorrence.

 

[speculawyer]

I dont think I can be nice to a poster who supports ISIS and their actions. You understand this is an emotional for a lot of us. I am a fully practicing Muslim. I dont go by labels but I fall in Sunni side of things if you really want to categorize. Seeing these ISIS demons butcher innocent passer-bys and civilians suspected of being Shia or Kurd has me raging something fierce, and then seeing imbecils defend their actions is the tipping point of abhorrence.

Yeah, I can certainly understand that. It has got to hurt you more than others to see a practice that you follow be perverted into a rationalization for killing innocent people. :-(

 

[dripdripsplash]

I don't give a fuck about being civil with this piece of shit. He is literally advocating for the group that brutally oppresses and slaughters innocents in the name of god. ISIS and their brethren are a plague upon this world. They spread death and misery all around them. They are evil in its purest form.

Jesus man, calm down.

ISIS is an interesting bunch; Here is an analysis of their break up with other Jihadi groups that I found interesting:

http://www.jihadica.com/the-islamic-state-of-disunity-jihadism-divided/

The rebel offensive against the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham (ISIS) in northern Syria, which broke out on January 3, 2014, has dramatically heightened tensions between Jihadi-Salafi thinkers. As noted previously, two tendencies predominate among jihadis insofar as the Syrian war is concerned: one favoring the al-Qaeda-affiliated Jabhat al-Nusra (JN) and cooperation with all rebel groups, and another favoring ISIS and its exclusionary political designs as the reborn Islamic state, or proto-caliphate.

On the ground at least, the uprising against ISIS has not for the most part opposed the more pragmatic JN backers to the more ideological ISIS devotees. Although driven violently out of Raqqa by the Islamic State in mid-January, JN has largely stood aloof during this confrontation. Rather those arrayed against ISIS—what one jihadi author has termed “the tripartite aggression”—consist of two upstart groups, the Syria Revolutionaries’ Front and the Mujahidin Army, and the Islamic Front (IF), an Islamist umbrella organization founded in November 2013. Nonetheless, the fighting has aggravated intra-jihadi tensions as the ongoing hostilities focus attention on ISIS’s unique claim to statehood and the inviolable sovereignty that this implies.

Much more at the link. Their way to power is very interesting and these victories has really been a PR gold mine, even though everyone is against them they seemingly succeed anyways, they will use this alot in the coming advancements.

EDIT: The real scary thing is that supporters truly believe this: They are the chosen state that will establish an Caliphate once again and bring back the authority and golden age of the Muslim World once again. The fact that everyone is against them, only strengthens their belief in that this is true. "Why would they be against us, if not for fear that "true" Islam will rise and pose a threat to them ?"

EDIT: Get a grip Quixzlizx. I find all these things horrid but like to look at them through academic eyes too since I will study it after the summer in Copenhagen University. My post history is a testimony to that.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Jesus man, calm down.

ISIS is an interesting bunch; Here is an analysis of their break up with other Jihadi groups that I found interesting:

http://www.jihadica.com/the-islamic-state-of-disunity-jihadism-divided/



Much more at the link. Their way to power is very interesting and these victories has really been a PR gold mine, even though everyone is against them they seemingly succeed anyways, they will use this alot in the coming advancements.

Is this a euphemism for "I'm rooting for them, but I don't want to come out and say it"?

 

[DY_nasty]

Is this a euphemism for "I'm rooting for them, but I don't want to come out and say it"?

no

 

[Yamauchi]

Iran won't let them take Baghdad. As for the rest, I don't know.

 

[kobashi100]

How can they not go back more radicalized? Especially western fighters? They go from clean and safe middle/upper class neighbors (poor areas as well, maybe not so safe) to all out war, with death, murder, mayhem. As well as watching or taking part in creating and initiating primitive laws/practices. Back home they are initially radicalized by imans, internet, peers etc. But that is mostly talk, armchair general/politician stuff. But finally getting your hands dirty, It's hard to come back from that I would think.

Plenty of Muslims from Europe went to Bosnia to fight jihad. They then went back home and got in with there lives.

Some brother will become full time jihad fighters. They will travel place to place where jihad is required. Lots of the chechynan brothers are like this.

Some will go back home.. This idea that all fighters whether in ISIS or other groups will come back to commit terrorism is pure fear mongering.

 

[Exr]

Is this a euphemism for "I'm rooting for them, but I don't want to come out and say it"?

Come on man.

 

[kobashi100]

I'll tell you why . . . because they disaffected blind-faith religious zealots.

Please explain why you see less practising Muslims travel from all over the world to fight in Syria.

Some have very comfortable lives in the west and they give it all up.

 

[Crisco]

You can blame Bush for starting the war, you can blame Obama for ending it, but the person directly responsible for this current crisis is Iraq's democratically elected President Nouri al-Maliki. His political actions alienated and angered the Sunni minority which have swelled ISIS's ranks, and caused Sunni's within his own military's ranks to defect. Why fight and die for a man who doesn't care about their rights? Besides that, he's proven to be an absolutely inept military commander, mounting no credible defense for the fallen cities. You can blame America for fucking up Iraq in the first place but what's going on today is self inflicted.

 

[BeerSnob]

This is the end of Iraq, I think.

The Kurds are making their move, seizing Kirkuk and securing Khanaqin. The Shiites are fortifying their positions in the south.

The zombie state may finally be dismembered.

Do you have any good outlets for Kurdish news? I know the Asayish and Pesh don't fuck around but I'm still worried about them. They're kinda the odd man out in Iraq.

 

[Liha]

Plenty of Muslims from Europe went to Bosnia to fight jihad. They then went back home and got in with there lives.

Some brother will become full time jihad fighters. They will travel place to place where jihad is required. Lots of the chechynan brothers are like this.

Some will go back home.. This idea that all fighters whether in ISIS or other groups will come back to commit terrorism is pure fear mongering.

A jihad tourist has executed 4 people in Brussels 3 weeks ago. It's illegal to fight for a foreign army and hopefully these people will loose their citizenship.

 

[speculawyer]

Please explain why you see less practising Muslims travel from all over the world to fight in Syria.

Some have very comfortable lives in the west and they give it all up.

because they disaffected blind-faith religious zealots.

Osama Bin Laden came from a wealthy family. Al-Zawahiri is a doctor.

Most of the 9/11 hijackers were architects & engineers.


This is what a fear. A brain virus that is so strong that it enables intelligent people to do irrational things.

Now I'm sure there are some that do it for other reasons . . . tribal, racial, nationalistic, or ethnic solidarity. But you do need a pretty strong reason to put yourself in that situation.

If you don't agree with me, you tell me what you think that makes them do it. I certainly wouldn't go there and fight for ISIS!

 

[kobashi100]

A jihad tourist has executed 4 people in Brussels 3 weeks ago. It's illegal to fight for a foreign army and hopefully these people will loose their citizenship.

I never said it doesn't happen. I was saying not all fighters will be the same.

Do you think Jews who go and fight for the IDF should lose there Citizenships?

Funny how nobody was complaining about Muslims going to Libya to fight Gaddafi..

 

[RustyNails]

Plenty of Muslims from Europe went to Bosnia to fight jihad. They then went back home and got in with there lives.

Some brother will become full time jihad fighters. They will travel place to place where jihad is required. Lots of the chechynan brothers are like this.

Some will go back home.. This idea that all fighters whether in ISIS or other groups will come back to commit terrorism is pure fear mongering.

Killing other humans is not simply "a job". You need serious brain error to fight and kill men, often from your host country, then return to your host country like you just went downstairs to do laundry. Those people that returned are unhealthy and have lot of pent up issues. Theres a reason why PTSD exists. They should all be removed from population and treated for psychological issues.

 

[firehawk12]

I find it fascinating that Iran is supporting Iraq with troops right now.

 

[speculawyer]

I find it fascinating that Iran is supporting Iraq with troops right now.

The joke has long been "The Iraq war is finally over and Iran won."

Well . . . maybe not.

 

[Liha]

I never said it doesn't happen. I was saying not all fighters will be the same.

Do you think Jews who go and fight for the IDF should lose there Citizenships?

Funny how nobody was complaining about Muslims going to Libya to fight Gaddafi..

The most jews are Israeli citizens so I don't see a real problem. It's a fact that people who fight for an islamic state and commit war crimes are absolutely crazy.

Who is "nobody" for you? The most people in the world are no NATO warmongers.

 

[Suen]

Incredible.

Supports what I said even more earlier. The Kurds are involved in this in to:

1. Shame the current government, which they constantly have disputes with, even further in an effort to make it lose even more support in the country

2. To regain (with far less resistance and under much better reasons) areas they consider to be rightfully theirs.

I'm surprised it took this long for mods here to ban liger5. Should have been banned months or a year ago when he was spouting the exact same nonsense in the Syria OT thread. Terrorist shithead.

 

[Uncledick]

Plenty of Muslims from Europe went to Bosnia to fight jihad. They then went back home and got in with there lives.

Some brother will become full time jihad fighters. They will travel place to place where jihad is required. Lots of the chechynan brothers are like this.

Some will go back home.. This idea that all fighters whether in ISIS or other groups will come back to commit terrorism is pure fear mongering.

3,000 westerners fighting just with ISIS. Yes some will commit/plan acts of terror within western countries, whether they will succeed, we do not know. Hell even if 1% of those 3,000 do something in the west, that is still 30 men.. lots of damage has been created with less manpower.

Also I find it funny that these western citizen's are fighting for terrorist groups abroad that are in indirect/direct confrontation with western interests, values, ethics. Yet they leave when they want, go kill, do jihad, whatever and then they arrived back in the home country, business as usual. Isn't there some kind of laws they're breaking? treason? Front row membership in a jihad? I don't understand how these guys do it.

 

[Suen]

I think alot of people are busy with mindless swearing instead of being objective and civil.

It's kinda cringe worthy to see all these "i hope you die" etc posts. He has provided evidence for his claims. Bring your own.

This is NeoGAF guys.

You realize there are posters here who are Iraqis, right? There's even an Iraqi in this thread who is from Mosul. Yet you're telling me we (and him) should be civil and kind with a guy who supports murderers? I've read your posts plenty of times and you're better than this Amjad.

 

[Suen]

You can blame Bush for starting the war, you can blame Obama for ending it, but the person directly responsible for this current crisis is Iraq's democratically elected President Nouri al-Maliki. His political actions alienated and angered the Sunni minority which have swelled ISIS's ranks, and caused Sunni's within his own military's ranks to defect. Why fight and die for a man who doesn't care about their rights? Besides that, he's proven to be an absolutely inept military commander, mounting no credible defense for the fallen cities. You can blame America for fucking up Iraq in the first place but what's going on today is self inflicted.

The Sunnis in Iraq has been against the government day one, Maliki there or not. Maliki did not create this situation, he just made it worse. You guys seriously think Sunnis were just going to accept their power, which they've held for centuries, fall and disappear without any fight and accept whatever new govt. that came out? Did most of you forget that Maliki brought back Sunnis to the government? That he has installed former Baathists in the government? That he once attacked Muqtada's militia before? As some other poster said here (or in the Baghdad thread) before: he's just another Saddam, but one with a Shia background and mostly without all the brutal methods Saddam used. He doesn't give a fuck about what sects you belong to, he cares more about the ones who'll support him. That said, anyone in Maliki's position would get fucked over in Iraq's recent years.

I find it fascinating that Iran is supporting Iraq with troops right now.

Looks like Iranians care more about Iraq than what many Sunnis in Iraq do. It's just that they care for entirely other reasons than Iraq's well-being, at least they are doing something. Any neighboring country would have done the same if they had the current situation next to them.

 

[Ikael]

And perhaps the world today stands stunned before the victories of the Islamic State of Iraq and Ash-Shām, enemies and supporters, in amazement and bewilderment, and they are asking -

"Who is supporting the State?"
"Who is sponsoring the State?"
"What is the source of their funding?"
"From where are they being armed?"
"Who is planning on its behalf?"

"What is the secret behind its endurance whilst everyone has declared war upon it?"

Know then the truth of the matter - The State has no might nor strength except by Alla

I am no muslim but I can see muslims everywhere cringing at that quote. Fucking bunch of imbeciles.

 

[speculawyer]

Also I find it funny that these western citizen's are fighting for terrorist groups abroad that are in indirect/direct confrontation with western interests, values, ethics. Yet they leave when they want, go kill, do jihad, whatever and then they arrived back in the home country, business as usual. Isn't there some kind of laws they're breaking? treason? Front row membership in a jihad? I don't understand how these guys do it.

At least for the USA . . . yes. If you go fight for some group that the USA has designated as a terrorist organization, you can be prosecuted for that.

Edit: And actually, we've gone further than that. We've done the controversial act of killing at least a couple US citizens by drone without any trial because they were working with terrorist groups. I sure wouldn't mind if they took out goat farm boy.

 

[Yamauchi]

Every one of them was a Baathist, lol.

 

[Firest0rm]

Every one of them was a Baathist, lol.

Wonder if they had a part to play in this? If some of the reports are indicating the involvement of the Ba'athi remnants.

Glad to see liger is banned, and I say this as an Iraqi.

 

[dripdripsplash]

You realize there are posters here who are Iraqis, right? There's even an Iraqi in this thread who is from Mosul. Yet you're telling me we (and him) should be civil and kind with a guy who supports murderers? I've read your posts plenty of times and you're better than this Amjad.

I don't know I just found the comments tasteless. He is banned now so whatever.

Maybe those 3 leaders were dealing with ISIS, pure speculation though.

 

[Vyroxis]

I find it fascinating that Iran is supporting Iraq with troops right now.

The last thing Iran wants is a bunch of fucking whack jobs in control of that entire country, especially ones that are likely to turn their attention to pissing in other people's cornflakes with suicide bombings.

 

[BolognaSoup]

This is truly sad. All those people being forced from their homes, even as shitty as they may have been. Everyone saying "thanks Bush" is being completely disingenuous and childish. This is far more than the fault of just him. It's also Obama, and it's also the entire international community.

 

[Crisco]

Eventually, the Middle East has to take care of itself. When the West leaves, it needs to decide if it wants to become Africa or Asia (the good parts of Asia at least). Iran, Israel, Saudia Arabia, even Egypt all have the military power and experience to wipe out ISIS if they wanted to. You can't ask the international community to keep intervening in sectarian conflicts when their neighbors in the region do nothing. I'm glad to see Iran sending troops in, that's exactly what they should be doing to assist a neighboring regional power.

 

[Wellscha]

So which post killed Liger?

 

[CrunchyB]

Turkey will be thrilled about [Kurdistan] too.

lol, my thoughts exactly. But I doubt they will actually intervene.

 

[RustyNails]

So which post killed Liger?

I'm sure all of his posts here were in one way or another defending actions of murderous, genocidal cutthroats or being in awe of them.

 

[Phoenix]

I have been amazed at the rate at which ISIS was able to take over huge swaths of territory and force out the standing army. Granted, initiative goes to the attacker and the army was likely caught totally off guard and flat footed, but man - that's one hell of a 48 hour run.

The army commanders on the ground can certainly be faulted for a lot of things, but at this point it appears that they spent most of their time trying to figure out what the hell was going on and trying to rally forces by retreating them out of conflict. That's hardly a bad strategy when you don't really know what the hell is going on around you.

I just don't understand how ISIS managed to take them by such massive surprise. Is there no regional intel any more?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

It's not just ISIS. And it's easy to take over a city when the entire garrison abandons it.

 

[Dead Man]

Maybe after 30 more years of this there will be some lines drawn on a map that people can agree with finally.

 

[CharlieDigital]

I just think the tenets of Islam make it a religion that is easier to go extremist with and the observed evidence seems to support that.

My personal thought is that the perceived issues with Islam are much more rooted in the poverty, lack of education, government corruption, lack of opportunity you see where Islam is the dominant religion.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, north Africa.

It has less to do with the fact that Islam is the dominant religion and more to do with the fact the fact that these peoples and countries have not really come together to build a functional government and thriving economies.

 

[Valhelm]

The problem is that the idea of nation states being "one people living with lines" are not at all applicable in many parts of the world.

 

[Maninthemirror]

My personal thought is that the perceived issues with Islam are much more rooted in the poverty, lack of education, government corruption, lack of opportunity you see where Islam is the dominant religion.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, north Africa.

It has less to do with the fact that Islam is the dominant religion and more to do with the fact the fact that these peoples and countries have not really come together to build a functional government and thriving economies.

Religion has been dripping with blood since beginning of time. Its amazing that the worst atrocities where religion is specifically used was some time after founders and thier immediates died, then there is chaos and finally religious fundamentalism which pushes violence abates.


Unfortunately we are at a time when radicalized Muslims are at their peak or rising of religiously instigated violence. the generations afterwards will have it better and we bear the brunt

Fortunately for us just as information flow is faster than ever, so will this cycle rise and fall in comparison to before

 

[Dead Man]

The problem is that the idea of nation states being "one people living with lines" are not at all applicable in many parts of the world.

Indeed. Ethnically/culturally unified countries are just not going to happen, but a lot of people will go to war to prevent anything else.

 

[Ether_Snake]

This is like Metal Gear Ghost Babel. All the fanatics will be gathering in one place, and the drones will be making it rain. If I was a civilian I would get the hell out of there.

 

[commedieu]

This is truly sad. All those people being forced from their homes, even as shitty as they may have been. Everyone saying "thanks Bush" is being completely disingenuous and childish. This is far more than the fault of just him. It's also Obama, and it's also the entire international community.

Yep. The plan was never to try and make a peaceful nation for all of the different groups of the region. It was to, kill Saddam because he had nuclear weapons. And oh yeah, gassing the Kurdish people. That too. Ignoring who put him there, that was the plan. That plan, is amazingly flawed in its own. Lets say he had them? Mission accomplished! Lets fly home boys!!! That is the identical result to what this is. The military would have fought back, and we would see the toppling of the government/military by the worlds most advanced military known to man. Then it leaves after a few years. The problems were just waiting for the Americans to leave. They left. Not a single intelligence officer of America was heard at any value who said this was a horrible plan to begin with. That you can't be ignorant of the cultures, and just try to install democracy. Everyone has learned this lesson about the middle east, and its our turn, well, again?

So, why were the reasons that the international community, decided to let this happen? With 100's of thousands of people killed. Why was this allowed to happen? Why was there no uni-lateral intervention? Who benefited from there being turmoil in Iraq? Who comes out living in a better state, or a better quality of life. With Iraq in utter chaos?

 

[CharlieDigital]

Religion has been dripping with blood since beginning of time. Its amazing that the worst atrocities where religion is specifically used was some time after founders and thier immediates died, then there is chaos and finally religious fundamentalism which pushes violence abates.

Unfortunately we are at a time when radicalized Muslims are at their peak or rising of religiously instigated violence. the generations afterwards will have it better and we bear the brunt

Fortunately for us just as information flow is faster than ever, so will this cycle rise and fall in comparison to before

Kind of missed my points, though. The root of it has less to do with religion and more to do with education. Iran, as an example, has a very educated populace and a more or less functional and stable government and economy. You see far less radical elements in Iran as compared to Pakistan or Afghanistan.

The West likes to demonize Iran, but it's a much more reasonable and stable entity than Pakistan.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yep. The plan was never to try and make a peaceful nation for all of the different groups of the region. It was to, kill Saddam because he had nuclear weapons. And oh yeah, gassing the Kurdish people. That too. Ignoring who put him there, that was the plan. That plan, is amazingly flawed in its own. Lets say he had them? Mission accomplished! Lets fly home boys!!! That is the identical result to what this is. The military would have fought back, and we would see the toppling of the government/military by the worlds most advanced military known to man. Then it leaves after a few years. The problems were just waiting for the Americans to leave. They left. Not a single intelligence officer of America was heard at any value who said this was a horrible plan to begin with. That you can't be ignorant of the cultures, and just try to install democracy. Everyone has learned this lesson about the middle east, and its our turn, well, again?

So, why were the reasons that the international community, decided to let this happen? With 100's of thousands of people killed. Why was this allowed to happen? Why was there no uni-lateral intervention? Who benefited from there being turmoil in Iraq? Who comes out living in a better state, or a better quality of life. With Iraq in utter chaos?

Saddam didn't have nukes, that was never an issue. It was "WMDs".

 

[Maninthemirror]

Kind of missed my points, though. The root of it has less to do with religion and more to do with education. Iran, as an example, has a very educated populace and a more or less functional and stable government and economy. You see far less radical elements in Iran as compared to Pakistan or Afghanistan.

The West likes to demonize Iran, but it's a much more reasonable and stable entity than Pakistan.

its interconnected. even the educated (Dr. Aiman Al Zawahiri) become terrorists so the issue is not just worldly education, its moral and religious education.