Vermillion
Banned
Y'know - this is unusually bad. I made a topic about black males in videogames a while back and it went pretty well.
The black females in videogames didn't go as well.
Who are your favorite black Nintendo characters?
- Thread starter KillerIsJed
- Start date
Y'know - this is unusually bad. I made a topic about black males in videogames a while back and it went pretty well.
Glass Rebel
Member
Spook is (also) a racial slur for Black people.
Owlowiscious
Member
I keep forgetting that in all of the world the only two races are white and black.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
But it also means ghost, which is obviously the way it's being used here, so it should be fine.
Acquiescence
Member
Speaking of racism and Kirby games (I actually LOVE Kirby, makes me sad) Here is a screenshot from Kirby's Triple Deluxe on 3DS of a character with a rather risque name.
A ghost wearing sunglasses called 'Cool Spook' does nothing to raise eyebrows, unless you're actively scraping the controversy bucket for the tiniest little chunk of shit left to stir.
He is biologically a bird from space.
Glass Rebel
Member
Oh, I don't think it's racist myself. Just saying what the poster probably meant.
Amazeballs
Member
What if it's the ghost of a black person?
the_batman
Banned
and also government agent.
The characters are squids. You know, those guys:
I don't see any humanoid arms legs or domino masks like shown in the videos.
But in their squid form they're the color of the ink... Claiming that it's just strict adherence to realism isn't doing you or anyone any favors. I'm not saying every game needs to represent every race, and it's still just a demo, so who knows if more selectable characters are planned than what we've seen. But ya know, it would be nice if they provided people with the option, especially since it would likely take minimal effort on their part.The characters are squids. You know, those guys:
Sure, and there actually are black squids. My point is that they're not human, they are anthropomorphized animals.
Why make that point in reference to this quote?
Are you saying that since they are not technically human there is no need to be concerned about the depiction of the characters? I'm confused.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Honestly.. how can people post bomb-omb??? I guess there are jokes to be made but its not cool. I dont think this wouldve happened if the samething happened yet with another race.
Amazeballs
Member
You guys are basing your arguments on an unfinished, feature-incomplete product. The game actually only has two characters -a boy and a girl- and even then it looks like they share the same base model and texture but with different hair and clothing. More customization is all but confirmed, so skin options are a likelihood in the finished product.
They are not human so the concept of race doesn't really apply is what I'm saying. Considering there are other animals in the game as well (cats), one could argue that "squid" is the race.
The full game will have character customization, maybe it'll allow you to change your skin color. Maybe it won't. I just don't really think it matters much in this particular case.
The OP posted game and watch as an example, so it is pretty clear he was referring to the color black, and not someone from an african descent.
So when we say black, are we talking about race or color ? Or are we talking about point of origin? Posting a black colored yoshi to me doesn't make sense considering it's a fucking lizard/dinosaur and it won't be considered African descent.
I honestly think some people in this thread are using sneak racism posting up donkey kong (monkeys and apes) to say those are Nintendo's black characters. If you feel a monkey/ape is what represents a black person please explain why you feel that way. As far as Jynx she could definitely be construed as racist because she looks like a Pokemon in black face.
I kind of feel OP was a bit disingenuous when he made this thread. Not sure if he was trying to be sarcastic or joke about something.
I honestly think some people in this thread are using sneak racism posting up donkey kong (monkeys and apes) to say those are Nintendo's black characters. If you feel a monkey/ape is what represents a black person please explain why you feel that way. As far as Jynx she could definitely be construed as racist because she looks like a Pokemon in black face.
I kind of feel OP was a bit disingenuous when he made this thread. Not sure if he was trying to be sarcastic or joke about something.
My read of it is that its a joke about how few actual black characters there are, not a joke on people who are black. The stuff like jinx I assume is also to point out that not only are few black characters, some of the character designs are even unintentionally offensive.
Although I have to say reading the thread there are actually a surprising amount of black Nintendo characters, though unfortunately few of them are playable.
Zevenberge
Member
No mention of Brock
yet?
GAF, I am disappoint.
Edit: picture was broken >.<
yet?
GAF, I am disappoint.
Edit: picture was broken >.<
The squids are being anthropomorphized, when in humanoid form they are essentially human. If Nintendo does not allow the selection of skin color then they are sending a message and its not one of inclusion. Now, it is not yet known if they will or not, but discussing it vigorously enough in a public forum may make them do the right thing.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Its still offensive..even so the only black character he posted has brown skin yet the others are just straight up the color black. I think there should just be one or the other because black people are not even black we have brown skin. That is messed up.
This. Really embarrasing thread.
I'm just saying I think the thread has been allowed to exist because the intended target of the joke is Nintendo, not people who are black. Obviously you have the right to be offended, but I don't think that was the intention (Except for the Donkey Kong guy who was rightfully banned).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Speaking of racism and Kirby games (I actually LOVE Kirby, makes me sad) Here is a screenshot from Kirby's Triple Deluxe on 3DS of a character with a rather risque name.
Okay, well, I started posting in this thread because I thought you wanted to make a statement about a legitimate problem with games in general, but nope, you are just an attention seeking jackass.
dr_octagon
Banned
OP doesn't want to set a positive tone. It's bullshit masquerading as social commentary. It isn't a surprise when people don't want to engage when you are being dishonest in your approach (regardless of whether there is something legitimate to talk about). It's a lazy way to be controversial and retroactively say you were trying to make a point. Let's post Game and Watch because it's meant to be funny cos he's black. They have encouraged the bypassing of any proper discussion about black and non-white characters in games. The thread is flawed from the outset and if there was transparency and clarity about what they actually thought - it would be much better.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
The intention really does not matter here. So if I made a thread for, "Who are your favorite white nintendo characters?" And posted Waluigi then Lakitus cloud, king boo and mewtwo everything should be ok? Or what of asian characters? Or indian? What would people post then? Really a screwed up way of thinking.
Well, white or brown would work because they have a double meaning that isn't offensive (ie, it's not generally offensive to say someone has white skin, but it's less PC to say someone is red or yellow). I don't think it work if you said just Indian for example because Indian is not also a color. Again the joke is about how black characters are underrepresented by Nintendo, which is a fair criticism.
Orniletter
Banned
Thats not what this thread was about. His intention was to point out how few black characters there are in Nintendo games to make them look like a racist company.
For crying out loud, look at his joke of an example for racism in Kirby games on this very page.
That's exactly what I've been saying... Have you read my posts on this page? Although I wouldn't go as far to say they are a racist company.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Its not a joke though. Maybe to OP obviously hes not black so his understanding on why this isnt a joke may not be relateable.
Also like the guy above me said look at the kirby thing.
I took it as satire, which generally uses humor about sometimes uncomfortable subjects to make a good point. See the Colbert Report for example. I'm not saying OP has been entirely successful, but I don't think it's meant to be about how funny it is that minorities are underrepresented in games.
I agree that the Kirby thing was just just pointless shit stirring that muddied the original point, though.
Orniletter
Banned
Oh, I missed that.
I didn´t call Nintendo racist either,what I meant is that it was KillerisJed´s intention to portray them as a racist company and stir the discussion in that direction.
...as evidenced by him pulling random controversial material out of...somewhere....like Cool Spook.
Yeah agreed that was dumb.
Hurricane_Chris
DDK
For all the people defending offensive stuff stuff by saying Japan is racially homogeneous and unaware of cultural etiquette, I have a question for you: have you ever lived in Japan or worked at a Japanese company?
I've lived in Japan for over a decade, and I've worked at a couple of large companies that, I guess, make a few games that are really popular here on GAF. I can tell you that working at a Japanese corporation is just like working at a corporation anywhere else in the world. Employees get training on how to deal with folks from different cultures, how to deal with people of different sexual orientations, how to deal with the opposite sex (sexual harassment training is a yearly thing at many companies, and is really, really annoying), and all the other stuff you often hear folks complaining about when they say that XYZ is too much PC rubbish and they hate the "waste of time" human interaction training.
Additionally, most companies in Japan realise that they're gonna be fucked if they don't become more global, so many are making a huge effort to hire highly skilled foreign people. HR departments are struggling, but working hard to make skilled foreign workers feel welcome in a work environment that is really hard for foreign people, especially those from the United States or western Europe, to get used to.
People in Japan aren't dumb and they aren't on some alien planet. They are tuned into the same global media and information that the rest of the world is. When you see something that's questionable or racist or whatever in a game, it is highly likely that someone, in some meeting somewhere, mentioned the fact that it'd offend a particular group of people. The decision maker(s) either :
A. Didn't care and decided to roll with it.
B. Decided that the primary market was Japan and that the opinion of the group being offended didn't matter.
C. Decided that the group offended is not in the target demographic so it doesn't matter if they're offended.
D. The company can use language and culture and "not knowing" as an excuse if there's any backlash.
E. Some other BS reason that basically equals giving no fucks about the group in question.
I personally have experienced all of these at least once, and B and D on MANY occasions. If you see something, and it seems wrong, it is a safe bet to assume that the perpetrators had similar thought but for whatever reason rolled with it anyway.
I've lived in Japan for over a decade, and I've worked at a couple of large companies that, I guess, make a few games that are really popular here on GAF. I can tell you that working at a Japanese corporation is just like working at a corporation anywhere else in the world. Employees get training on how to deal with folks from different cultures, how to deal with people of different sexual orientations, how to deal with the opposite sex (sexual harassment training is a yearly thing at many companies, and is really, really annoying), and all the other stuff you often hear folks complaining about when they say that XYZ is too much PC rubbish and they hate the "waste of time" human interaction training.
Additionally, most companies in Japan realise that they're gonna be fucked if they don't become more global, so many are making a huge effort to hire highly skilled foreign people. HR departments are struggling, but working hard to make skilled foreign workers feel welcome in a work environment that is really hard for foreign people, especially those from the United States or western Europe, to get used to.
People in Japan aren't dumb and they aren't on some alien planet. They are tuned into the same global media and information that the rest of the world is. When you see something that's questionable or racist or whatever in a game, it is highly likely that someone, in some meeting somewhere, mentioned the fact that it'd offend a particular group of people. The decision maker(s) either :
A. Didn't care and decided to roll with it.
B. Decided that the primary market was Japan and that the opinion of the group being offended didn't matter.
C. Decided that the group offended is not in the target demographic so it doesn't matter if they're offended.
D. The company can use language and culture and "not knowing" as an excuse if there's any backlash.
E. Some other BS reason that basically equals giving no fucks about the group in question.
I personally have experienced all of these at least once, and B and D on MANY occasions. If you see something, and it seems wrong, it is a safe bet to assume that the perpetrators had similar thought but for whatever reason rolled with it anyway.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I feel like there's a joke that I'm missing here.
Speaking of racism and Kirby games (I actually LOVE Kirby, makes me sad) Here is a screenshot from Kirby's Triple Deluxe on 3DS of a character with a rather risque name.
Would you also suggest a racial subtext in Spooky Scary Skeletons, the Halloween song? I mean, this is beyond ridiculous. I didn't even know, personally, that "spook" could mean a black person, until I saw it mentioned in this thread.
Interesting. It's nice to hear this kind of stuff. So many people treat Japan like it exists in some other dimension, full of people who have no idea what goes down in the rest of the world. Nice to know the are tuned in; sad to know they apparently don't give a fuck. :/
HighResTomato
Member
Don't blame your ignorance on this thread then.
They certainly aren't oblivious, and they do go to some lengths to accommodate other people's cultures and in general try to avoid offence. But they certainly are not experts either - we all have gaps in our knowledge, incorrect assumptions based on stereotypes, and blind-spots in our interactions; the Japanese are no different.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
christ...
Byakuya769
Member
They're not human, and yet they default to caucasian skin tones. And then you go so far to as to scour the internet for a picture of dead squids that have lost their pigment? On top of that, the squids in the games are bright and colorful, yet that only translates to the squid person's hair and clothes but not their skin...
Come on.
Hurricane_Chris
DDK
There are people who care, in fact I'd say that the majority of people here go out of their way to be considerate of non-Japanese. Having something offensive slip though the cracks and get released in a product happens all over the world all the time. Usually, it happens in the same way: decision makers do a calculation and decide to go ahead with whatever because it won't hurt the product's profitability in a meaningful way. For example, Hollywood movies are rife with stereotypes of the world's people and star white heroes styling on ignorant brown people, yet people all over the world keep filling the MPAA's corporate coffers. Games seem to be similarly able to make huge profits despite issues with diversity.
As a black male who grew up in the southern United States and lived in southern and northern California for an extended period of time, I will state something that may be hard for you to believe:
The sort of day to day casual racism that occurs in the United States -- all the way out to the foul in your face variety that occasionally involves violence of some sort -- is, for me, pretty rare in Japan. In all the years I've been here, I've only had one incident that was even close to the sort of crap I experienced in the United States. When I first arrived, and could not speak Japanese, I was denied the ability to move into the apartment I wanted to live in. That's it.
If you go by what you read on the internet, Japan is a place that is intolerant of non-Japanese and racist. I think that's sorta cute because if I had to guess I'd say it was white American males or white European males who, unaccustomed to the privileges of being the majority, don't like being a minority with no power in Japan.
Should the BBC issue a public apology then? Words have more than one definition you know.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I'm pretty sure that spook isn't a racist word. Just like monkey isn't a racist word.
It's a racist word when you use it towards black people.
It's a racist word when you use it towards black people.
SystemUser
Member
The characters are squids. You know, those guys:
Are the characters in the game zombie squids? Squids are usually only white after being dead long enough for all of their chromatophores to deactivate. Living squids have active pigments cells called chromatophores that allow them to use active camouflage. Some species also use the chromatophores to dazzle prey or for mating displays.
BlackClouds
Member
Nintendo doesn't have any significant black characters. Folks searching hard and long to find any examples at all, hard to imagine any of them would be somebody's favorite. Nintendo has a significant black fanbase, they should change their ways and appreciate their fans more.
Also, why is everybody ignoring Hurricane_Chris?
His points need to be addressed to understand the context behind Nintendo's behavior. So what if people feel uncomfortable, we need to talk about it.
Also, why is everybody ignoring Hurricane_Chris?
His points need to be addressed to understand the context behind Nintendo's behavior. So what if people feel uncomfortable, we need to talk about it.