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[BassForever]

I feel pretty strongly that we already know the full roster, more or less, at 47 characters.

I can't help but shake the feeling that if the cuts are 4 characters (snake, squirtle, ivysaur, lucas) and with their being a late discussion over ness vs lucas. And us landing at 47... It gives some credibility to rosalinax's 48 with 4 cuts with ness vs lucas still unknown lucas probably cut. It seems to be a bit too strong of a coincidence for them to line up so closely, and with mewtwo getting a resurgence in pokemon x/y and being a vet cut late in brawls development I can go either way. Obviously 47 with a random space makes the roster nice and symmetrical ala smash 64 and brawls. But if they did 48 you could do 5 rows of 10 with the last row having random and dlc in the last two spots (which would still line up with the sal leak)

As I said before still only expecting the 47 we more or less know about with a random space and no dlc, but I want to throw that idea back out because I think its probably the second most likely.

 

[Anura]

So VGBC uploaded some 1v1s: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw/videos

And discovered Marth's counter can kill kill Mega Man at 55% doing 35% damage. The thing he countered was Mega Man throwing a barrel. So crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ckQpLAsX3s

Interesting... Although there is no way Marth can rely on a counter and it also has nothing to do with a ground game as it can be done airborne

 

[Jintor]

can you guys link me the video?

http://www.twitch.tv/nintendo/b/537795858?t=2h44m24s

Less than a minute into the match in the Colesseum, which I think is the second match

/edit okay my mistake, it's just the other hammer with the different sound. I didn't even remember it existed

 

[Dr.Hadji]

That's probably going to get a ZSS nerf by release.

I don't know why people think Zamus needs some kind of nerf. What we all saw in the finals was pretty much Zamus 101 in Brawl. She's good, but not that good. Hungrybox just had no idea what to do against it.

 

[SliceSabre]

I feel pretty strongly that we already know the full roster, more or less, at 47 characters.

I still want to believe in 50.

 

[DaBoss]

That was a joke.

oh lol

smash is not a game thats played "on the ground" like other games, and should not be. I think. And "ground based" marth on a game with really limited movemed options on the ground doesnt sound great to me

It should be a ground game as much as it is an air game, but Smash shouldn't be defined like that. Smash is the most dynamic fighter out there and will always have more air game than other fighters as long as it is a platformer type game.

But they should put in more ground options.

 

[Forkball]

It's a bit disappointing that Isaac, Ridley, and Takamaru probably won't make it in. At least we got Little Mac, who was probably the most non-Ridley requested character and some surprises no one would have guessed prior to last year's E3 (Mega Man and Pac-Man). I hope we at least get a Golden Sun level for the 3DS version, it had some great locals.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I still want to believe in 50.

I'd love to see how 50 characters would fit on a select screen symmetrically. Maybe after DLC?

I can't help but shake the feeling that if the cuts are 4 characters (snake, squirtle, ivysaur, lucas) and with their being a late discussion over ness vs lucas. And us landing at 47... It gives some credibility to rosalinax's 48 with 4 cuts with ness vs lucas still unknown lucas probably cut. It seems to be a bit too strong of a coincidence for them to line up so closely, and with mewtwo getting a resurgence in pokemon x/y and being a vet cut late in brawls development I can go either way. Obviously 47 with a random space makes the roster nice and symmetrical ala smash 64 and brawls. But if they did 48 you could do 5 rows of 10 with the last row having random and dlc in the last two spots (which would still line up with the sal leak)
As I said before still only expecting the 47 we more or less know about with a random space and no dlc, but I want to throw that idea back out because I think its probably the second most likely.

Maybe he counted the random space somehow? Maybe his source counted the random space somehow? Maybe the first DLC character will be available at launch, and he included it in the count?

It's a bit disappointing that Isaac, Ridley, and Takamaru probably won't make it in. At least we got Little Mac, who was probably the most non-Ridley requested character and some surprises no one would have guessed prior to last year's E3 (Mega Man and Pac-Man). I hope we at least get a Golden Sun level for the 3DS version, it had some great locals.

At least you'll be able to see Ridley whenever you want in the WiiU version, Sakurai really went all out with including him in the highest capacity he could

 

[SliceSabre]

I'd love to see how 50 characters would fit on a select screen symmetrically. Maybe after DLC?

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes made it look good with 56 characters, I'm sure Smash can do it too.

 

[JediLink]

He is no where as good in Smash 4 if you try to play him like Brawl or Melee. You can't just expect one to master him in a few hours of Smash 4. It's clear he has a different style now.

Sorry, but I have more faith in the King of Smash than Sakurai's balancing skills. And I don't think any amount of adaption is going to let you combo off that forward throw. (Someone else post the gif; I can't find it)

 

[BassForever]

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes made it look good with 56 characters, I'm sure Smash can do it too.

The problem there is the 3ds screen only has so much space for character icons, though how small is too small is unknown at this point.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

The problem there is the 3ds screen only has so much space for character icons, though how small is too small is unknown at this point.

The logic that they would limit the roster due to how many characters they can fit on a screen is insanely infuriating!

 

[Beelzebufo]

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes made it look good with 56 characters, I'm sure Smash can do it too.

I'm sure it could. I'd love to see a mock-up withing the frame of the actual select screens that could do it though. 48 (47 and random) fits perfectly on each of the select screens. I don't think it's a coincidence that the 3DS fits exactly 24 per page, and I don't think those icons will shrink because they're already pretty small.

The logic that they would limit the roster due to how many characters they can fit on a screen is insanely infuriating!

The logic is that the designed the select screen based on how many characters they have in the game lol

 

[Kouriozan]

The logic that they would limit the roster due to how many characters they can fit on a screen is insanely infuriating!

Mario Golf World Tour has a simple solution.
Press down on the bottom row to see the DLC characters. Talking about the 3DS version.

 

[BassForever]

Mario Golf World Tour has a simple solution.
Press down on the bottom row to see the DLC characters. Talking about the 3DS version.

Yeah that could work (still need to get mg:wt)

 

[DaBoss]

Sorry, but I have more faith in the King of Smash than Sakurai's balancing skills. And I don't think any amount of adaption is going to let you combo off that forward throw. (Someone else post the gif; I can't find it)

See, this where you're getting ridiculous. It is one thing to not have hope for this game, that is your opinion and I respect it, but basing your opinion on gameplay where people aren't used to it yet is something else entirely.

And if the forward throw is not combo-able, that is the point lol. Whether one likes it or not is different. Throws aren't used to go into combos anymore. Or at least the throws I've seen being used. I've seen the odd times where people are able to follow up on a throw with an attack, but it was rare.

 

[Brofield]

Who else got a chance to play the demo at Best Buy?

I did yesterday, and man, I gotta say, meeting the people I did in the lineup made the wait hella worth it.

 

[Ivan 3414]

(The more common term is "nerfed", btw)

Based on what we've seen, Marth look to be nowhere near as good as he was in Melee or Brawl. His grabs lead to nothing, and his aerial game is much weaker.

Good. Marth's existence makes me sick.

Spoiler

Former Roy main

 

[Azure J]

For easy reference's sake, can someone post the most current SalRomano/Sal's source leak? I'm suddenly curious to read it again after thinking about how fast everyone latched on to the idea of character DLC down the road.

Good. Marth's existence makes me sick.

The salt.

#MarfSquad will never die. Deal with it.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

See, this where you're getting ridiculous. It is one thing to not have hope for this game, that is your opinion and I respect it, but basing your opinion on gameplay where people aren't used to it yet is something else entirely.

And if the forward throw is not combo-able, that is the point lol. Whether one likes it or not is different. Throws aren't used to go into combos anymore. Or at least the throws I've seen being used. I've seen the odd times where people are able to follow up on a throw with an attack, but it was rare.

In Palutena's trailer, she followed up a back throw with a dash attack.

 

[Son Of D]

The problem there is the 3ds screen only has so much space for character icons, though how small is too small is unknown at this point.

Could easily have a second page for characters. Since the 3DS won't have to worry about multiple people using the same screen for character selection.

 

[DaBoss]

In Palutena's trailer, she followed up a back throw with a dash attack.

Wii Fit Trainer could have jumped out of that, so that isn't a scenario that would apply in actual gameplay. Trailer footage isn't really good at showing anything other than the moves the character the trailer is focused on uses.

 

[friskykillface]

King K Rool is a lock for a stage boss at this point, as an assist character too(he would run across the stage hitting enemies, woks for both stage boss/assist)
i'm bummed :'(

other then that, i got what i wanted, mega man x pac man x little mac and hopefully brinstar depths for past stage

Snake being cut would be the final blow, the god gone

 

[Beelzebufo]

For easy reference's sake, can someone post the most current SalRomano/Sal's source leak? I'm suddenly curious to read it again after thinking about how fast everyone latched on to the idea of character DLC down the road.
The salt.
#MarfSquad will never die. Deal with it.

- Last E3 before game's launch (obviously)
- Participating characters: Pac-Man, Mii Fighter, Goddess Palutena, Shulk, Chrom, Chorus Men (none of these are new, obv, so I take he means these are the participating characters for E3?)
- There has been internal debate about keeping Lucas versus Ness, apparently Lucas is likely to get the cut
- Nintendo is planning post-launch character DLC, source doesn't like this as he thinks it's greedy

.

Could easily have a second page for characters. Since the 3DS won't have to worry about multiple people using the same screen for character selection.

There is likely a second page. Two pages perfectly fits 48. Any more would leave a random third page.

 

[BGBW]

King K Rool is a lock for a stage boss at this point, as an assist character too(he would run across the stage hitting enemies, woks for both stage boss/assist)

DK doesn't actually have a new stage yet does he? Rather odd. Also Star Fox, Kirby and Yoshi (correct me if I'm wrong). Of course unrevealed characters like Wario and Captain Falcon don't have their stage yet either.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

The logic is that the designed the select screen based on how many characters they have in the game lol

For a demo? No, they didn't.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I'd love to see how 50 characters would fit on a select screen symmetrically. Maybe after DLC?

1) Select screens don't have to be symmetric (Melee).

2) Five rows of ten (49 characters + random).

[* = Confirmed]

Mario*
Luigi*
Peach*
Rosalina & Luma*
Bowser*
Wario
Yoshi*
Donkey Kong*
Diddy Kong*
Pikmin & Olimar*
Villager*

Link*
Zelda*
Sheik*
Ganondorf
Toon Link*
Marth*
Ike*
Chrom
Shulk
Chorus Kids

Pikachu*
Jigglypuff
Charizard*
Lucario*
Mewtwo
Greninja*
Mr. Game & Watch**
R.O.B.
Wii Fit Trainer*
Mii Fighters*

Kirby*
Meta Knight
King Dedede*
Pit*
Palutena*
Ness
Lucas
Ice Climbers
Little Mac*
Takamaru

Samus*
Zero Suit Samus*
Fox*
Falco
Wolf
Captain Falcon
Sonic*
Mega Man*
Pac-Man*
RANDOM

 

[Beelzebufo]

For a demo? No, they didn't.

They designed the Brawl demo based on the future select screen too. Why would it be different this time? The final select screen of course is designed to display all of the characters as well as possible. If you think the 3DS squares will further shrink, go crazy. I doubt they will. I also doubt that it's a coincidence that the 3DS screen perfectly fits the remaining likely newcomers and the rest of the Brawl veterans (except Snake and Lucas of course).

Keep in mind, this is assuming they expand the 3DS screen to last two pages in the first place, so it's already different from the demo.

1) Select screens don't have to be symmetric (Melee).

2) Five rows of ten (49 characters + random)

How would that fit on 3DS? The WiiU screen is the easy one to manipulate because one can shrink more easily. And the Melee select is symmetrical.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Late

i'm losing my touch

 

[J-Tier]

Haven't made the list of shame since thread one.

I suppose that's an accomplishment since I lurk on this thread almost hourly.

 

[Azure J]

.

Thanks. So with it being in planning, I'm guessing the turn around might be a year or so out.

 

[Marcus]

Why the FUCK do you guys think they will limit the roster because of the size of the 3DS screen?! It's quite obvious that they will have multiple pages for the select screen just like the 3DS main menu.

 

[VegiHam]

I think I'd probably be disappointed if the only new surprises in the game were Chrom, Shulk and Chorus Men since, uh, it wouldn't be a surprise. Kinda hoping all the rumours are just wrong or something and we get 55 characters or something with a few more newcomers.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Satoru Platinum

 

[JediLink]

See, this where you're getting ridiculous. It is one thing to not have hope for this game, that is your opinion and I respect it, but basing your opinion on gameplay where people aren't used to it yet is something else entirely.

And if the forward throw is not combo-able, that is the point lol. Whether one likes it or not is different. Throws aren't used to go into combos anymore. Or at least the throws I've seen being used. I've seen the odd times where people are able to follow up on a throw with an attack, but it was rare.

Marth's grab game used to be one of the best, if not the best, and it was a pretty major reason for why he was top tier. Taking that away from him hurts him a lot more than other characters. In order for him to not be nerfed overall, he'd need some pretty hefty buffs in other areas. Remember, this isn't like Melee where we're going into it knowing pretty much nothing. Ken is a Marth expert, and he knows what to look for.

It's possible that Marth's still going to be decent, sure, but barring some crazy game-changing discovery I think it's fairly safe to say that he's been nerfed.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

How would that fit on 3DS? The WiiU screen is the easy one to manipulate because one can shrink more easily. And the Melee select is symmetrical.

I suppose shrink the icons a bit? I don't think it'd be too hard. If have to get another look at the 3DS demo select screen.

And Melee's was horizontally symmetric, but not vertically. We had a big row at the top and all that (where the clones were stuck in).

 

[Beelzebufo]

Thanks. So with it being in planning, I'm guessing the turn around might be a year or so out.

It's hard really, since a lot about the sources information suggests that this was info from near the beginning of development when the roster was being worked on (Pokemon from XY, Lucas being up in the air). It's possible they've been working on it for a while, it could also be that "Smash 6" we saw earlier.

I suppose shrink the icons a bit? I don't think it'd be too hard. If have to get another look at the 3DS demo select screen.

And Melee's was horizontally symmetric, but not vertically. We had a big row at the top and all that (where the clones were stuck in).

Show me a mock up, I don't think it's possible without either having an extra page with huge empty spaces on both, making the spaces way too small, or making something completely unsymmetrical (which I'm expecting for DLC, but certainly not for the main game). Melee was still symmetrical though.

 

[Azure J]

Edit: Hmm, actually maybe you're right Beelze. Turning Smash into a platform for DLC (characters) has always been a thing I've wanted to see happen just because of how much longevity there is in one iteration of the game. New content like that would be able to generate a lot more focus on the title over the course of the generation. I'd really like to just fast forward now and see what Nintendo's plans are for this because the contention is already going to be high among the uninformed. Their handling of it all is what will make or break the whole thing.

Marth's grab game used to be one of the best, if not the best, and it was a pretty major reason for why he was top tier. Taking that away from him hurts him a lot more than other characters. In order for him to not be nerfed overall, he'd need some pretty hefty buffs in other areas. Remember, this isn't like Melee where we're going into it knowing pretty much nothing. Ken is a Marth expert, and he knows what to look for.

It's possible that Marth's still going to be decent, sure, but barring some crazy game-changing discovery I think it's fairly safe to say that he's been nerfed.

Holy shit that fucking video. :O

 

[J@hranimo]

smash is not a game thats played "on the ground" like other games, and should not be. I think. And "ground based" marth on a game with really limited movemed options on the ground doesnt sound great to me

Yeah I'm not so adamant about that change either. Maybe he'll get more aerial game when the game releases.

I don't know why people think Zamus needs some kind of nerf. What we all saw in the finals was pretty much Zamus 101 in Brawl. She's good, but not that good. Hungrybox just had no idea what to do against it.

I mean....basing on this small selection, I think she'll be really good if this is how the game will mainly be playing as. We're at least 5 months out until the Wii U releases too. I'm sure some characters will get some more tweaks.

 

[friskykillface]

DK doesn't actually have a new stage yet does he? Rather odd. Also Star Fox, Kirby and Yoshi (correct me if I'm wrong). Of course unrevealed characters like Wario and Captain Falcon don't have their stage yet either.

D: *puts tin foil hat on*
its time B^)

I want King K Rools ship to be the stage, it can work

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Updated, running out of material to work with though.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Now that I've played the game and we've seen so much, I'm just kind of caught in this ever lasting moment of not knowing what to talk about. I guess characters are always fun.

I've resigned myself to the fate of the big leak. I wonder if we'll get any of those newcomers before release? Or will the rest of the directs and pic of the days just reveal the remaining veterans? It could see it working either way.

What ever the case I will still be begging for Ridley and Dixie Kong because DLC is pretty much guaranteed in my mind. Just need those 2 for a practically complete Smash.

 

[tonyh24613]

Updated, running out of material to work with though.

So we have shiny Greninja, sweet.

 

[SerodD]

I think I'd probably be disappointed if the only new surprises in the game were Chrom, Shulk and Chorus Men since, uh, it wouldn't be a surprise. Kinda hoping all the rumours are just wrong or something and we get 55 characters or something with a few more newcomers.

It would be kind of dissapointing to go in on a smash game knowing all the characters, but at least we got a great roster minus Ridley.

 

[PadWarrior]

Yikes I made the wall of shame.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I'm watching the treehouse gameplay. Why do people play four player free-for-all on stock? Camping can always be a problem with more than two players, but on time, you have to get into the fray at some point. on stock, the rick/reward ratio is less balanced since you don't get points for K.O.ing anyone. Stock matches always end one-on-one, but it's never balanced at that point. On time, it's all four people until the end and there's still beneift for going for K.O.s.

You always have people who just go "I just attack whoever's closest, hurr" even though there's one guy with four lives left while everyone else only has one apiece...ugh.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Why the FUCK do you guys think they will limit the roster because of the size of the 3DS screen?! It's quite obvious that they will have multiple pages for the select screen just like the 3DS main menu.

You're obviously misreading the posts here. It's likely that there are multiple pages, yes. Considering that each page comfortably fits 24 characters, however, and that 48 roster slots is exactly what is likely to be in the game based on leaked information, and considering that they design the roster around the number of playable characters, a final roster of 47 makes the most sense.

It would be kind of dissapointing to go in on a smash game knowing all the characters, but at least we got a great roster minus Ridley.

We would know it anyway due to the early Japan release, just like last time. And Ridleys in as a boss

 

[DaBoss]

Marth's grab game used to be one of the best, if not the best, and it was a pretty major reason for why he was top tier. Taking that away from him hurts him a lot more than other characters. In order for him to not be nerfed overall, he'd need some pretty hefty buffs in other areas. Remember, this isn't like Melee where we're going into it knowing pretty much nothing. Ken is a Marth expert, and he knows what to look for.

It's possible that Marth's still going to be decent, sure, but barring some crazy game-changing discovery I think it's fairly safe to say that he's been nerfed.

Yea, I know it is the best grab game (because broken grab) and one of the easiest to learn. I know Ken has a really good Marth in Melee (from the older days).

It seems like chain-grabbing won't be possible with this change which I think is another reason for the change.

His Melee/Brawl style gameplay has definitely been nerfed, but we don't know how well he'll play in Smash 4 since it he is changed by a good bit.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I really hate Fox's new voice.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I can't help but shake the feeling that if the cuts are 4 characters (snake, squirtle, ivysaur, lucas) and with their being a late discussion over ness vs lucas. And us landing at 47... It gives some credibility to rosalinax's 48 with 4 cuts with ness vs lucas still unknown lucas probably cut.

As I said before still only expecting the 47 we more or less know about with a random space and no dlc, but I want to throw that idea back out because I think its probably the second most likely.

Also adding the fact that 24 characters can fit at once on the 3DS, 47 seems like a safe bet (leaving one for random). The question is will Mii take 3 spots or 1?