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Heroes of the Storm Technical Alpha Thread: [Artifacts Removed]
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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I'm really not sure how much I like this game.
On the one hand it's really fun playing all the Blizzard heroes and I like the map variety and map objectives, but everything just feels way too shallow.
It feels like they've stripped too much out. No last hitting, no gold earned, team leveling, no items, no skill builds. It just feels too basic. Every hero is the same from level 1-22, with slight variations from your talent choices, and I don't think those really make that big of a difference. They all seem like pretty subtle upgrades.
I also don't really care for the combat. There isn't really room for big plays. I feel like most heroe's (outside of murky and the demon hunter), can take a fair amount of damage, and stuns/slows are so short in this game that it leads to way too much chasing. Most fights you will cycle through all of your abilities 3-4 times, because they have very little impact.
I don't know, maybe I'm too stuck in the dota mindset that I want something deeper. I'm level 12 at the moment, and I plan to play more here and there, but I don't think I will be dedicating much time to it.
On the one hand it's really fun playing all the Blizzard heroes and I like the map variety and map objectives, but everything just feels way too shallow.
It feels like they've stripped too much out. No last hitting, no gold earned, team leveling, no items, no skill builds. It just feels too basic. Every hero is the same from level 1-22, with slight variations from your talent choices, and I don't think those really make that big of a difference. They all seem like pretty subtle upgrades.
I also don't really care for the combat. There isn't really room for big plays. I feel like most heroe's (outside of murky and the demon hunter), can take a fair amount of damage, and stuns/slows are so short in this game that it leads to way too much chasing. Most fights you will cycle through all of your abilities 3-4 times, because they have very little impact.
I don't know, maybe I'm too stuck in the dota mindset that I want something deeper. I'm level 12 at the moment, and I plan to play more here and there, but I don't think I will be dedicating much time to it.
I'd really like to see maps based around Blizzard properties. I think I remember reading somewhere that the nexus was "neutral" ground or whatever. But come on Blizzard play to your strengths. I like the game because of the Blizzard characters. Give us a Warsong Gulch map. More importantly a Rock N Roll Racing map with the original music & announcer,
.
won't happen 
lyrick
Member
I'm not sure we're playing the same game, or if you're playing HoTS like DOTA, the game is not all about grouping and team fighting. I see this mindset a lot in players under level 20 or 30. Playing Murky, Abathur or Gazlow is miles different than playing Stiches or Valla.
After spending the last two weeks at level 40 I now mostly play Random, and there are huge differences in play between even same classed characters at levels 1-9, 10 & 11, and 12-16+ even if all you do is jump into team fights (thanks Tributes for almost forcing those) you should see some major differences between characters.
As for depth the skill trees do a decent job of differentiating builds on a single character, and for a game lacking depth I still see people attacking Merc camps in ridiculous fashion (not killing the sorcerer in the knight camp first, taking easily dodged boulders to the face). Then there's strategy differentials on what is the most value added course of action to take on what map at what time (chasing down Tributes when all the Towns are demolished is probably not a great idea).
You're ignoring the hidden 75K XP per game through Hero Quests, once you get those 1,500,000 , 2,250,000 and 3,000,000 XP bonuses you won't complain about quick games, you'll complain about the lvl 40 level cap.
Nevermind I see what you're saying. But that's only a bonus if you're sticking to 1. And you get that win or lose. At the end of the day though it's not that big of a deal. Perhaps further down the line if & when they decide to up the level cap it may become a bit tedious.
Thinking about map ideas, how does this sound. May post it on main forums, but want some feedback before I do.
-3 Lane map (or 2 with centrally located watchtower or boss)
-Top half forest, Bottom half rocky terrain.
-A shredder will spawn in the forest & a miner in rocky area.
-The 2 mobs are basically payloads from TF2 (Silvershard Mines in WoW)
-Unsure if their pathing should be able to be blocked. Or if they should just pass through friendly & enemy units, just friendly units, or try to find another way back to base.
-Bringing back the Shredder rewards you with wood that is used to upgrade your buildings, either healing all buildings or increasing their health pool. Maybe damage on towers but that may be too much.
-Bringing back the Miner rewards you with ore that upgrades your lane units damage & health.
-All neutrals reward you with a small amount depending on the location in which they are killed. Wood/Ore picked up from dropped neutrals must be returned to base, upon death you drop it just like gold coins.
-Shredder/Miner possibly cannot spawn at same time, spawn locations are randomish much like the Curses.
I think right now it's about being unfamiliar with the heroes. I played 5 days as Falstad early on and that went well (was lower level). I felt pretty useful to the team but not overly overpowered.
The last couple of days he was out of the rotation so I tried to do things based on my dalies. I think melee heroes are probably a bit out of my reach now, as I tend not to be so great at knowing when I need to escape. I guess if you get focused you get taken down quickly regardless. Played one game as Diablo, was probably the weak link on the team. One more as Kerrigan, felt a bit better about her but still got taken down quickly. One as Nova, did better as her but our team still lost all 3 games.
I'm thinking about buying Malfurion because he's cheap, I kind of want to try a supporter type role. But, again, I think it's very much about not being super familiar with the heroes, I don't even really know what talents to pick most of the time. I just go with what sounds better.
Rokam, this is on the front page of the HotS reddit:
Thefly75 said:It's obvious but it took me until Level ~21 to get it. At first it seems you may level quicker by playing all heroes at least for the first two hero quests (2 matches + 4 matches) but at the end it doesn't matter. You'll always earn 75.000 Bonus XP per match. It only takes longer to get it.
1) 2 Matches -> 150.000 XP
2) 4 Matches -> 300.000 XP
3) 10 Matches -> 750.000 XP (+Skin)
..
So the only rule you may keep in mind to optimize leveling, always complete a hero quest. Don't have any 1/2 or 2/4 or 8/10 matches open. Stop at 0/xx if you want to switch heroes.
ps. I play the game because it's a blast and fun to play, but getting gold and xp is 2nd tier incentive
TLDR: as long as you don't stop mid-hero quest, you're going to average out to the same EXP whether you do the easy early quests with each hero or max one out to get all the skins. That's pretty awesome, IMO.
Hey! Sonya is pretty much the only Warrior I can stand!
But yeah, I came into the alpha wanting to play Sgt. Hammer, with my first 5.5k gold I bought Sgt. Hammer (and it was easier for me too, because back then there was the bug that gave you 2k gold for getting to both level 4 and level 5) and branched off from there.
I... have this problem. I tend to come late to team fights because I like to clear a wave/merc quickly, or want to try and get a tower down fast if I'm playing Sgt. Hammer. I've found that I have a love for split pushing. Curse Map's tribute fights are the main times I make sure I get there early, thanks to it being the second widest map.
Combat will definitely open up the more you play and as you randomly get matched up against better people. You definitely haven't gone through the whole cast yet or done much coordination with teammates if you don't think most of the Assassins can take a hit before needing to run home. I've found lately that if you can hit a Support with two CCs to block their heals you can burst them down quickly too (Thank you, Barbarian).
Yes I know all this, I'm talking about purely experience from winning. I believe you should get more than 20k. Hell playing with friends or on weekends rewards more, although those may end up getting nerfed. Or they could do something like Hearthstone where 3 wins nets you a tiny amount of gold, but not really a fan of that.
Kinda hope they don't do a wipe with this next phase, but more than likely will. Oh well got to 20 so at least I get some gold!
BurningNad
Member
Man, people need to stop being such douches.
As Gazlowe, I tell my team I'm going to be jungling. I get a response "Don't, this isn't League."
Now first of all, I've never played League. Second... He's a specialist. His specialty is Mercs, and killing them and buffing them.
So after that, what happens? The guy who told me not to jungle... Is jungling. And failing. I tell him not to cap them since I buff when I cap and he tells me I don't own the jungle. He's Muradin btw.
Ugh.
As Gazlowe, I tell my team I'm going to be jungling. I get a response "Don't, this isn't League."
Now first of all, I've never played League. Second... He's a specialist. His specialty is Mercs, and killing them and buffing them.
So after that, what happens? The guy who told me not to jungle... Is jungling. And failing. I tell him not to cap them since I buff when I cap and he tells me I don't own the jungle. He's Muradin btw.
Ugh.
It saddens me to play with Gazlowes who just lane normally, don't go a push strat or go jungle.
I got Tyrande's 2nd skin, time to move to a different support, one where I feel my heals actually do shit. I hate druids but no way I'm playing LiLi so Malfurion it is.
Say "I'm going to be Mercing" instead of jungling, maybe. Maybe.
Gazlowe is best at solo clearing merc camps, but he's also a damn good siege hero since his turrets soak up tower hits. Against better teams that actually check their camps and punish him, I don't mind having him in lane with me at the beginning of a game.
Gazlowe is best at solo clearing merc camps, but he's also a damn good siege hero since his turrets soak up tower hits. Against better teams that actually check their camps and punish him, I don't mind having him in lane with me at the beginning of a game.
KojiKnight
Member
I played Tyrande as support for awhile and she was, as you say, very inadequate in healing. Malfurion by comparison is a fun support to play.
And yeah, there are just too many times you see a support or a tank trying to cap giants when they could be doing other things. It'd be one thing if they at least announced they were going after them so someone else could team up and get them down faster, but they inevitably quit mid-team battle to ever slowly slug it out with the giants.
People in general don't ping their intentions enough.
Honestly, I like Tyrande. She might be the weakest Support but all of the Supports in this game are good. But like Tassadar she's better paired off with another Support or with a team that carries some self sustain (Arthas with Rune Tap, Tychus with Vampiric, etc.).
Honestly, I like Tyrande. She might be the weakest Support but all of the Supports in this game are good. But like Tassadar she's better paired off with another Support or with a team that carries some self sustain (Arthas with Rune Tap, Tychus with Vampiric, etc.).
lyrick
Member
The second you show up on the team as Gaz your team should know that there's going to be merc-ing or town pushing on your end. It's his specialist role, Gaz is typically only in the middle of a team fight as a precursor to his revive counter (that's not to say that an enemy in the center of 4-5 turrets won't die, but there's a pretty good chance that Gazlow will if he's being attacked).
Many players don't understand the specialist roles very well, they continue to think that Abathur is AFK, and Gaz just won't help in team fights... I'm guessing they've never taken the time to see how well charging the Deth Lazr works in the midst of a teamfight.
That's not always a bad thing. On some objectives it's more worth it to have someone stay in lane and collect XP for the team. Especially in situations when both teams are level 9 and you can have someone get you to level 10 while the other team isn't getting much of any XP. Makes a big difference.
KojiKnight
Member
I've gotten to the point with this game, that I don't even play the dailies anymore. I have my favorite characters, I have max level, and I have a ton of gold I don't feel like spending... So now the game has moved from daily ritual to just "what I play when I dont' have anything better to do" which isn't necessarily bad. Frees me from having to play characters I don't enjoy. I complain a bit now, but I'll likely miss it when next wipe comes and I'm reduced to gold scrounging again.
That's never how it goes though. It's always the rest of the team trying to do an objective and clashing with the entirety of the enemy team, resulting in the one team out numbering the other and ultimately being wiped. Which then causes the other team to get ahead in levels.
Sitting in the lane and farming exp has never been worth it as far as I have seen. It's way more worthwhile, and more experience, to just team fight, get hero kills, and go for the map objectives.
Same goes for pushing in this game. Vast majority of the time you don't need to even worry about where the creep wave is, since you can either just a) back door everything, or b) the map objective itself will push for you. Pirate map is a prime example of this.
I'm still money grubbing myself but only really playing for a few hours every two or three days. I really should branch out but I also really like my favorite heroes. Plus, it feels like matchmaking is having problems making well balanced teams, meaning people aren't playing a wide enough variety of heroes, meaning that I don't want to learn a new character right now when I already have a penchant for enjoying characters most see as underpowered or needing a team around. Over 25k gold now and I'm saving 10k out for Zagara, but at this rate I might just save until I have enough to buy all of the other specialists. Other than Gazlowe. For some reason I just don't like Gazlowe.
It's just that at the end of the day, there are map specific objectives and then there's the main objectives: pushing down forts/keeps to get to the core. Blackheart's Bay is an outlier in this but it's also why some consider it the most snowballey map now that the curse mechanic on Curse Hollow has been nerfed.
Basically, it can be worth it to ignore the map mechanic for a cycle if you threaten to take down a fort or very quickly grab multiple mercs on the enemy's side of the map (that can then quickly threaten a fort while the enemy is busy with the mechanic). That's part of why the golem is so weak on the Haunted Mines. In the case that you quoted, where there's a tribute fight about to happen, you can win 4v5 if you get your ults first so you just need to stall and not bash your head into the enemy team. That doesn't happen often in solo queue though, sadly.
But the nature of the game means that I've turned a number of games around on all of the maps where we lost out on the map specific mechanic over half the time there.
Split pushing is weak against coordinated teams though, I must sadly admit. Specialists just feel underpowered at top level play despite being great at pubstomping...
lyrick
Member
If you can communicate an strategize with your team, you can do so much more than run around and team fight.
As far as I see it: if you're in a team fight and your towns towers are not dropping cannon balls on the opposing team or you don't have the power boost from your teams recently captured knight Mercs, you probably shouldn't be in a team fight.
If you're outside of those two situations, you're leaving a lot up to chance and really the watchtower isn't worth it (the only reason you really want it anyway is so you can kill the coin camps in relative peace). There's just too many character and team build issues to constantly throw yourselves into team fights all over the map, they should happen when your team is prepared for them both strategically and skill/level wise, not just because some person thinks pinging the center of the map at the beginning of the match is a good idea.
He wasn't specifically talking about that, but I know what you mean about early game clashes. People also tend to overestimate the value of a kill since it takes about five kills while you're both on even level to get a level advantage.
Still, when team comp permits it (and I'm furiously typing to try and get a consensus at the beginning of a match because of that) I support the initial clash on Blackheart's Bay and lately on Haunted Mines. Those maps are more about total map control rather than sneaking around lanes, so the initial clash can set the tone of the early game and send the other team scurrying. In the case of Bay, it means safer access to treasure chests and the pirate camps, and in Haunted Mines it means you can quickly 2 or 3-man cap your bottom siege giants and start really early pressure.
So, I've played more games as Sonya than I care to admit -- out of stubbornness and love for Diablo -- and have concluded that she has some big problems. The main problems are lack of fury generation late game and the uselessness of Whirlwind.
The fury generation is horrible late game, you have to spend your time generating fury from minions, but you ultimately don't even kill the whole minion wave because you are just auto attacking and using ancient spear. You don't want to use any of the fury because you want to keep it for team fights, so you leave a half cleared minion wave. It feels absolutely horrible to engage in a team fight with no fury...god help you if you miss a spear.
Whirlwind is only useful to activate your combat trait to run, or to get out of certain CC effects like zombie cage. Its damage is pitiful, and the health regen is negligible, and it costs a quarter of your fury.
There are a plethora of other issues like poor talents to choose from, one ult being absolutely useless, and poor lvl 20 talent selection, and the combat trait % being too low, but either way the two big issues are the most egregious to me.
A good team can masks a lot of bad Sonya design, but when you face competent players or have a less than ideal group, you see how bad she really is.
The fury generation is horrible late game, you have to spend your time generating fury from minions, but you ultimately don't even kill the whole minion wave because you are just auto attacking and using ancient spear. You don't want to use any of the fury because you want to keep it for team fights, so you leave a half cleared minion wave. It feels absolutely horrible to engage in a team fight with no fury...god help you if you miss a spear.
Whirlwind is only useful to activate your combat trait to run, or to get out of certain CC effects like zombie cage. Its damage is pitiful, and the health regen is negligible, and it costs a quarter of your fury.
There are a plethora of other issues like poor talents to choose from, one ult being absolutely useless, and poor lvl 20 talent selection, and the combat trait % being too low, but either way the two big issues are the most egregious to me.
A good team can masks a lot of bad Sonya design, but when you face competent players or have a less than ideal group, you see how bad she really is.
Sonya is definitely in the camp of heroes that need to be looked at again. What literally propers her up is her slam attack allowing her to to be the highest DPS Warrior in the game, which keeps her in mid to maybe a step into low tier. She's often forced to play like a melee Assassin but if your team hard engages with her then your enemies will find her surprisingly hard to kill (hard to explain this, but she essentially works like Kerrigan except with health regen rather than shield gen). When all her slam traits are taken, even starting with zero fury you can solo clear a knight camp at level 7 and come out with half health at worst. Combined with the CC from her leap, she can pretty much shit on most every Assassin or Support in the game. Because she's less durable than the other Warriors, CC'ing her is her biggest weakness, but she gets better escape options than most of the other Warriors too.
And she's not the only Warrior that can't clear a minion wave quickly (e.g. Stitches, or Diablo who also wants to charge up his mechanic off minions when he gets a free chance). When wanting to clear one quickly, you should use your slam. Don't be shy or overly worried about keeping your fury high. Just make sure that along with your spear, you come out ahead in fury. If you start a fight with an enemy hero with about 40 fury, then you're good.
When I need to carry with her, I either roam with another Assassin or a strong CC hero (Malfurion and Arthas are great help) or I run around clearing camps about as early as most Gazlowe's are willing to risk themselves (ignoring the ones with the balls to go for Knights super early).
And she's not the only Warrior that can't clear a minion wave quickly (e.g. Stitches, or Diablo who also wants to charge up his mechanic off minions when he gets a free chance). When wanting to clear one quickly, you should use your slam. Don't be shy or overly worried about keeping your fury high. Just make sure that along with your spear, you come out ahead in fury. If you start a fight with an enemy hero with about 40 fury, then you're good.
When I need to carry with her, I either roam with another Assassin or a strong CC hero (Malfurion and Arthas are great help) or I run around clearing camps about as early as most Gazlowe's are willing to risk themselves (ignoring the ones with the balls to go for Knights super early).
I agree with most of what you said. I don't quite agree with your point about her being able to sustain in combat similar Kerrigan. It is probably due to the hammer talent, but I never go into the battle with the idea of it keeping me up, whereas Kerrigan actually can rely on it, or like a Stitches devour.
I understand that I can clear minion waves and mercs pretty much better than all warriors and even some assassins, its more just in relation to late game fury. I'm fine with going into battles with mid fury during mid game, but in late game it may not even be possible. Late game is usually dependant on speed and positioning. Every other hero will usually be fine with blowing through their spells to clear mercs or minions quickly, but Sonya does the same and she has to make sure she has enough resource for the inevitable team fights after.
A lot of other heroes feel like they are reaching their apex late game, with improved skills and talents and their interconnectedness, while the Barb only gets the added depth of fury management, ohh and when to press Stoneshield.
I agree with you, its just the late game where I feel like most of the problems arise.
Can someone explain peoples need to go watchtower at the beginning of Blackheart's Bay. I asked in game and the team said "to secure coins." That doesn't make sense, all it does is drain your mana and health so that when the coins spawn the other team will typically be full health, you'll lose out on lane experience, and the bottom chest is ignored.
Stoneshield tier is actually one of the tiers that I feel I have options on. Mostly because the Spear always pulls you talent is really good for escaping through terrain.
As for late game, I don't see entirely what you mean. You can have a problem getting a chance for more fury, but it shouldn't happen too often. If you're just regrouping after dying then you can usually rendezvous for a merc pick up. If your side doesn't have the map control for that then there's usually a creep wave coming into your base you can use your spear on and then mount back up in a few seconds. If a team fight breaks out then your Leap is just as important as your DPS and I'll usually wait for an opportunity to lead in with that, do a few auto attacks (which are decently quick late game, now that I think about it) then chain the stun with a Spear and then into a Slam. Alternatively, if for whatever reason you're taking Berserker, you should always take its level 20 improvement talent.
It's an issue, but it's an issue you're supposed to mitigate around, I guess is how I see it. My personal wish is that Whirlwind keeps all of its current attributes but then also grants 1 Fury per enemy hit. Then I'd use Spear, auto attack twice, and finally Whirlwind a minion wave to get a nice surplus.
As for late game, I don't see entirely what you mean. You can have a problem getting a chance for more fury, but it shouldn't happen too often. If you're just regrouping after dying then you can usually rendezvous for a merc pick up. If your side doesn't have the map control for that then there's usually a creep wave coming into your base you can use your spear on and then mount back up in a few seconds. If a team fight breaks out then your Leap is just as important as your DPS and I'll usually wait for an opportunity to lead in with that, do a few auto attacks (which are decently quick late game, now that I think about it) then chain the stun with a Spear and then into a Slam. Alternatively, if for whatever reason you're taking Berserker, you should always take its level 20 improvement talent.
It's an issue, but it's an issue you're supposed to mitigate around, I guess is how I see it. My personal wish is that Whirlwind keeps all of its current attributes but then also grants 1 Fury per enemy hit. Then I'd use Spear, auto attack twice, and finally Whirlwind a minion wave to get a nice surplus.
This is me already, and I'm only level 19. I've got somewhere around 14k gold but I only play Li Li, Stitches, and Nazeebo. I really enjoy playing them and I do well with them. I do still do my daily though. I still haven't found an assassin I like...they are all so damn squishy and the most important thing for me is either the ability to escape or survivability. In theory, I should enjoy Zeratul or Nova, but I dunno. Will take suggestions.
This is how I feel 85% of the time. If I pug there's always some dude who does not help the team and we inevitably get wrecked, the other team gains the level advantage anyway and it's catch-up from there.
And this is the other 15% of the time.
I ran 10 or 12 games with a rather interesting group last night. We had Li Li (me), Brightwing, Muradin, Tyrael, and Abathur. Two supports, two warriors, and a specialist. After 5 or 6 games our Tyrael left and we picked up Nova. We only lost two games and the two we lost the opposing team completely ignored the map objectives for several rounds and laned and merc'd us to death for a bit, eventually gaining such an upper hand offensively that once we made our big push they were able to backdoor us with two or three of their own guys before we could get their core down.
We were so busy grabbing shrines/curses in those games and got too greedy team fighting because we could stomp them that we missed the forest for the trees. We never pushed or laned for any extended period til the end in both games and it cost us.
KojiKnight
Member
Another thing I seem to do more and more is play Murky... not being he's necessarily over powered (he is, his murloc ultimate does way too much building damage), but because he plays single player. Yeah you can still join in team battles/objectives, but he's mostly doing his own thing.
It's a restriction, one that many don't have to put up with late game. Mana issues are used as a check for early gameplay, but usually dissipate as the game goes on.
All the things you listed are ideal circumstances. There will be times when you do miss spawns of mercs, where any lane that has close minions will be escorted by mercs or an enemy hero that you will need to use fury to fend off, or you simply have multiple engagements back to back where you have to spend time either healing or moving to urgent objectives.
Either way, if they want a mechanic for Sonya to be fury management, fine, but get it right the whole of the game.
Part of the reason I play Gazlowe as well. I can join team fights but for most of the time I can be in the jungle farming creeps and pushing lanes.
KojiKnight
Member
http://a.pomf.se/dsvslr.webm
A part of a 20 minute round I captured while testing the AMD DVR beta, I can't seem to get the full video to load into anything for me to convert and upload to youtube (4.5GB is a little much for my poor connection, though if I can't figure something out, I might upload it anyways overnight).
Not too bad considering it caused no slowdowns in game.
A part of a 20 minute round I captured while testing the AMD DVR beta, I can't seem to get the full video to load into anything for me to convert and upload to youtube (4.5GB is a little much for my poor connection, though if I can't figure something out, I might upload it anyways overnight).
Not too bad considering it caused no slowdowns in game.
Pretty much the main reason I enjoy Li Li so much. When I'm grouped, she's a game changer. When I'm not, I don't have to rely on others to survive or enjoy myself. It's really the difference between punching the screen in some pugs and not.
I'm 19/30 now on mount tints for Li Li. I think once I get those I'm not gonna push too hard for the 3 million EXP. What is that, like 40 more games? It's a bit ridiculous IMO. I would really like to see MORE levels with LESS EXP required per level, along with the gold reward changes. Alternatively they could make more hero quests with less games required and give gold from them instead of handing it out in the same manner Hearthstone does.
You are dirty!
S'ok. Murky is good fun for solo pug play IMO, and it's one of the very few heroes you can completely change a game with regularly all by yourself.
KojiKnight
Member
I did at first, but the more you play as him the more you can spot his weaknesses. Then I don't feel as bad when the enemy team ignores me and I completely destroy everything on a lane.
Nothing like sneaky behind the main lines to grab a merc camp (wrath of cod is a must for quick merc camp captures, don't waste it on minions, just use slime on them and throw a bomb at a building every time cooldown is over, even if an enemy is sure to kill it. They waste precious seconds on the bomb instead of stopping you killing minions/their friends/etc)
Yeah I love wrath, on blackheart bay i just camp out near their Hard mercs. They seem to ignore me there for whatever reason. I've won 2 games on the graveyard where the other team had a 99 golem and we just push and won. I do think the egg placement should have a scaling respawn timer equivalent to a normal hero.
Murky isn't bad if people would just hunt for his egg but most of the time people ignore him until it is too late.
I find Blackheart is the easiest to deal with murky since it is easy to zero in on his egg and if he puts his egg in the spawn then the run back isn't worth it.
Here's my personal rant on Murky from playing hours and hours of solo queue most days:
(Quick Point of clarification: This rant is based solely on having Murky on my team. I could care less if the other team has a Murky because he's so easily countered by using MULE and just forcing 5 man team fights. That being said, arguing with pubs to get MULE vs a Murky gets rather tiring at times.)
When you play Murky, you're effectively being a dick to the other 4 people that end up on your team. Most Heroes in the game go off the concept of always being in team fights and supporting your team members in one fashion or another. Murky goes off the concept of PvEing buildings for half the game while leaving the rest of your team to fight 4v5. You might argue that in theory the other team needs to dedicate one person to stopping Murky so that it's 4v4, but the reality is that you can ignore Murky for most of the game (provided you take MULE) and ruthlessly stomp the other team to a point that they can't recover from. Basically, when you play Murky, you're telling four other people on your team that they can go screw themselves and that your fun is more important. Because you're not going to be able to help them for most of the game, and even if your team ends up winning the other four people aren't going to feel like they were in a won game.
Murky's base design is flawed relative to every other hero in the game. Rather than designing him as a PvE Building master who fails to help his team for the vast majority of the game, they should scrap the building damage part entirely and go off the idea of being a hero that suicides into enemy heroes with his team. Because then he'd actually be interacting with his teammates in a meaningful way.
(Quick Point of clarification: This rant is based solely on having Murky on my team. I could care less if the other team has a Murky because he's so easily countered by using MULE and just forcing 5 man team fights. That being said, arguing with pubs to get MULE vs a Murky gets rather tiring at times.)
When you play Murky, you're effectively being a dick to the other 4 people that end up on your team. Most Heroes in the game go off the concept of always being in team fights and supporting your team members in one fashion or another. Murky goes off the concept of PvEing buildings for half the game while leaving the rest of your team to fight 4v5. You might argue that in theory the other team needs to dedicate one person to stopping Murky so that it's 4v4, but the reality is that you can ignore Murky for most of the game (provided you take MULE) and ruthlessly stomp the other team to a point that they can't recover from. Basically, when you play Murky, you're telling four other people on your team that they can go screw themselves and that your fun is more important. Because you're not going to be able to help them for most of the game, and even if your team ends up winning the other four people aren't going to feel like they were in a won game.
Murky's base design is flawed relative to every other hero in the game. Rather than designing him as a PvE Building master who fails to help his team for the vast majority of the game, they should scrap the building damage part entirely and go off the idea of being a hero that suicides into enemy heroes with his team. Because then he'd actually be interacting with his teammates in a meaningful way.
So I got into this a few days ago but I'm still not really sure what I should be doing...
I'm not really a Moba expert or anything.
Should I be sticking with the team to help with group kills? Pushing Lanes? Grabbing map objectives?
I'm a bit worried about being dead weight, (which is silly since this is an alpha) I'd like to be helpful if possible...
Is it just as simple as learning the heroes and sticking with your team?
Oh and it's Vegetable#1880 if anyone wants to link up...
I'm not really a Moba expert or anything.
Should I be sticking with the team to help with group kills? Pushing Lanes? Grabbing map objectives?
I'm a bit worried about being dead weight, (which is silly since this is an alpha) I'd like to be helpful if possible...
Is it just as simple as learning the heroes and sticking with your team?
Oh and it's Vegetable#1880 if anyone wants to link up...
Game was kind to me today and I got several wins. It's tough soloing though, you never really know what kind of team mates/comps you'll end up with.
I ended up buying Lili at the suggestion of other folks and she's much easier to play with provided you have a decent 2nd player to follow and support. I feel really durable with her, even taking the dragon talent vs the healing barrel.
Trying to decide on a 2nd dps type hero to learn. Raynor is easy to play but doesn't really seem all that effective vs the other guys with fancy tricks. Nova seems like a decent pick too.
I want to try Tassadar or Abathur but they are probably a bit to complex for now.
I've been seeing people bounce on all day, but never had a chance to party with anybody. Hopefully I'll get a chance soon enough. Does matchmaking try to pair teams with other teams or is it mostly just random?
I ended up buying Lili at the suggestion of other folks and she's much easier to play with provided you have a decent 2nd player to follow and support. I feel really durable with her, even taking the dragon talent vs the healing barrel.
Trying to decide on a 2nd dps type hero to learn. Raynor is easy to play but doesn't really seem all that effective vs the other guys with fancy tricks. Nova seems like a decent pick too.
I want to try Tassadar or Abathur but they are probably a bit to complex for now.
I've been seeing people bounce on all day, but never had a chance to party with anybody. Hopefully I'll get a chance soon enough. Does matchmaking try to pair teams with other teams or is it mostly just random?
KojiKnight
Member
The basics via reddit as told to a new guy playing Muradin. Pretty much sums it up:
Rule 1: Don't die. As obvious as it sounds, it really is the key to playing a MOBA. You picked Muradin, a melee character. You're always going to be in range of something that will hit you. That means always waiting for your minions to engage the other side's minions before you attack so they don't attack you. If your opponent is really low on health and almost within range of his towers, let him go. Survival is more important than killing. You are useless while dead and more useful alive countering your healed up opponent.
Rule 2: Don't pick fights you can't win. Two vs. one? Run. You might kill one of them, then they'll kill you, then you're breaking Rule 1. Always err on the side of playing it safe. Overextension is the hallmark of a new player. You are not a superman in the first 15 levels. You're a slightly stronger, more intelligent minion.
Rule 3: Go for map objectives. If Raven Lord's tribute is up, you go straight for it. There will be a team fight there and you'll be needed. Head into the mines and get skulls or support your team against the golem. Collect doubloons and turn them in together so the other team doesn't pick you off and steal your coins. Hold that dragon shrine or at the very least try not to let them get it. Don't break Rule 1 trying to protect, but do what you reasonably can.
Starting with a melee class is probably the last thing I'd recommend to a new player. There's a reason they start you with Raynor. Ranged classes let you learn how to follow Rule 1. You think you're nice and safe until Zeratul pops out and shits all over you. Everything's hunky-dory until Stitches pulls you into tower range and starts wailing on you. Nothing could be better for you until Diablo charges and tosses you into the melee pit to get stomped.
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As for the minute to minute, if you are not team fighting or getting an objective (including mercs) you need to be killing minions or pushing the lane behind your minions. The more EXP you gather, the better for the team. That turret you slowly whittle down behind your minions becomes more important as the game goes on. Really just stay busy and stay alive.
Everytime I see you I'm either already grouped or you're already in a game
. I'm not entirely sure how matchmaking works, but it seems to want 1 tank, 1 support, and 1 specialist whenever it can and the rest some combination of assassins. Three times it's given me no tank in nearly 24 levels, but that was because we already had 3 players queueing I imagine.Gazlowe's and Abathur's have some of the absolute wildest range of skill. It's amazing. When you play with a good Gaz it's like a revelation...when he's bad, you will wish you had Murky. Same with Abathur. I also find Abathur to be a hero that has to ramp up, so you suffer in the early game for greater benefit in the late game.
And yes, Murky does wreck in team fights when no one is paying attention. Yet another reason he needs to be reworked, IMO. His ability to destroy stuff and people with no consequence or benefit to the other team is QQ inducing.
Alboreo
Member
I have a quick question. So I've not spent a lot of time in MOBAs; this is the first one I feel that I've really been able to enjoy. My one issue is that I've yet to try any matches against other players. I've only done coop.
In other games I usually get yelled at by everyone for sucking, but I tend to come out on top in coop matches here. Should I be concerned about trying pvp?
In other games I usually get yelled at by everyone for sucking, but I tend to come out on top in coop matches here. Should I be concerned about trying pvp?
In general, the game seems to have a pretty understanding group of players currently (since it's Alpha, probably) and harassment is at a minimal. That said, playing coop or practice mode is...well, it's really only useful for teaching you the abilities of your chosen hero IMO. The AI is pretty terrible in my experience compared to real people.
My advice is you're going to have to try it sooner or later, and it's better to take the lumps in Alpha and see how you fare and if you don't like it you just don't play it again. The game isn't toxic yet, so don't worry about that. Just try to follow the couple of things I posted above and when you play with someone good or helpful invite them to your group. Within a few days you'll have several folks to play with. That's pretty much what I did.
Oh, and play a ranged class to start in Versus. So much easier to survive.
Well, GAF has a group channel thingy. Match up with people from here and you'll probably avoid that. PUG pvp is always gonna have that somewhere, but if it's all going south and someone is hurling insults rather than giving you constructive criticism or feedback, mute 'em. Also the stuff Alur said.
My brother and I got in last week, this game is really addicting. Been having a blast, a lot of stuff already feels really good. Only big issue I'm having is that I lose track of my mouse, surprisingly. Don't have that issue in any other MOBA style games, at all. Has led to a few Hyperion ults going astray, or missing skill shots. Also kind of wish you could earn gold somehow in co-op, even if it was a greatly reduced amount. I get why you can't, but I've run into a lot of people that prefer co-op, can play and relax, have a little fun blowing shit up, etc.
I thought I'd miss having a shop, but the talents do a real nice job of giving my characters some mid-game diversity.
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