2014 FIFA World Cup |OT4| What can European men do against such reckless heat?

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Disappointed like no other. If we at least lost fairly - I would've been better...but ffs clear goal disallowed - which would have given us so much confidence, and foul not given on Spahic. Then the chances we had near the end.

This is just how it is for us, never have any luck
 
figadapaura said:
an instant classic

iPHGyqS.gif
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They should of finished that gif with him taking the knife back from his back.
 
gundamkyoukai said:
Been that way since yesterday lol .
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The way it should be.

This thread should be always simmering and just about to boil over. But just when it's about to get out of control, there's that period of calm.

The opening games honeymoon is over. All things seemed possible then everybody had a chance (mathematically). But by this stage hearts are broken and the cruel reality of football takes it's bite.

Why? Because football is serious business.

Only Costa Rica can save us.
 
gutter_trash said:
if Eduardo is in nets
USA 0-3 Portugal

if Beto is in nets
USA 1-3 Portugal

if Rui Patricio is in nets
USA 3-2 Portugal
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I fully support these predictions. The only people that think Patricio is a good player are Sportinguistas. Everyone else knows he's crap on a stick.
 
Zvonimir Boban said:
Nah, it's what the typical casual fan always says after England get eliminated from the Euros/World Cup.

Bring up some nonsense about they need MORE PASSION! Blah blah prima donnas blah blah blah they should be forced to sing the national anthem blah blah blah something about bulldog spirit and how we won the war etc

Never any mention of the fact that other teams have better players and the supposed world-class English players are anything but.
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Yeah it's really hard to accept for some that England are an average team with a bad manager who were only there to make up the numbers in the group stages. Those of us who actually follow football every week were not surprised. I have no doubts that the players were really up for it despite their shortcomings.
 
EmiPrime said:
Yeah it's really hard to accept for some that England are an average team with a bad manager who were only there to make up the numbers in the group stages. Those of us who actually follow football every week were not surprised. I have no doubts that the players were really up for it despite their shortcomings.
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Maybe England should take Iran's approach.
 
Zvonimir Boban said:
Nah, it's what the typical casual fan always says after England get eliminated from the Euros/World Cup.

Bring up some nonsense about they need MORE PASSION! Blah blah prima donnas blah blah blah they should be forced to sing the national anthem blah blah blah something about bulldog spirit and how we won the war etc

Never any mention of the fact that other teams have better players and the supposed world-class English players are anything but.
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It's a consequence of the absolutely terrible level of football discussion and debate in this country. Every week on MOTD and Sky, it's the same old clichéd soundbites about one player 'wanting it more' etc. There's barely a look at tactics beyond the lineup.

I'm glad that Gary Neville on Monday Night Football is doing something about that and having some level of tactical discussion about the games, but we need a lot more than that.

Firemind said:
Then why are they getting paid so much for being a bunch of wankers?
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Good English players command higher prices and wages, because they're more in demand. Our teams have to play a certain number of 'homegrown' players, and English players fall nicely into that category.
 
EmiPrime said:
Yeah it's really hard to accept for some that England are an average team with a bad manager who were only there to make up the numbers in the group stages. Those of us who actually follow football every week were not surprised. I have no doubts that the players were really up for it despite their shortcomings.
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Yep Europe has 12 slots so kinda hard for every tom dick and harry team not to get a spot. Even an average England. Not sure why they started Rooney the guy is over rated and their defense needs to be redone.
 
figadapaura said:
Maybe England should take Iran's approach.
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We practically invented that kind of football.

England were naive in this World Cup. They've actually played worse football and slipped through in past tourneys, mostly using grit and heart. Both of which were missing. We've traded that for youthful (moderately) attacking football.

Interesting.
 
England's single biggest problem is an obvious one. Not enough English players in the EPL. Those teams will always prefer a foreign, more skilled player rather than a much more average skilled English player that's way overpriced anyway.
 
ndiicm said:
Yep Europe has 12 slots so kinda hard for every tom dick and harry team not to get a spot. Even an average England. Not sure why they started Rooney the guy is over rated and their defense needs to be redone.
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Well, as always, UEFA have 20 teams in the top 32, going by FIFA's rankings. So UEFA are under-represented at the World Cup.

As for why we started Rooney, it's because he's our best player and will almost certainly finish his career as England's all time top scorer, Manchester United's all time top scorer and quite possibly the Premier League's all time top scorer. Is he overrated? Sure, by the people who think he's world class. He's not. But he's still England's best player.

There are a lot more reasons why we failed in this World Cup than Rooney (who scored 1 and assisted the other England goal, lets not forget). Such as the defence, which you mentioned.
 
Valente said:
England's single biggest problem is an obvious one. Not enough English players in the EPL. Those teams will always prefer a foreign, more skilled player rather than a much more average skilled English player that's way overpriced anyway.
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its a coaching problem, better coaching means better young English player, better young English players means clubs wont have to import and more talent is gets into the pool of the National team
 
Uzzy said:
Well, as always, UEFA have 20 teams in the top 32, going by FIFA's rankings. So UEFA are under-represented at the World Cup.

As for why we started Rooney, it's because he's our best player and will almost certainly finish his career as England's all time top scorer, Manchester United's all time top scorer and quite possibly the Premier League's all time top scorer. Is he overrated? Sure, by the people who think he's world class. He's not. But he's still England's best player.

There are a lot more reasons why we failed in this World Cup than Rooney (who scored 1 and assisted the other England goal, lets not forget). Such as the defence, which you mentioned.
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nah, its much easier to just rail on Rooney instead of actually really thinking and having some insight into the matter, forgetting that Steve 'let's not let this slip' Gerrard was much worse.

a lot of ABU-ism slips into the national ire whenever England looses
 
Bold One said:
its a coaching problem, better coaching means better young English player, better young English players means clubs wont have to import and more talent is gets into the pool of the National team
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Absolutely. Look at countries that have clubs with dedicated schools, they always find talent. Sporting, Barca, Ajax. From what I understand Chelsea have a ton of great kids in their system but most of them aren't English. Just poached from other country's schools.
 
I just saw Ghana - Germany. Ghana outplayed them and were fast.They are the youngest team in the tournament. Next World Cup they are going to be a dangerous team.
 
Bold One said:
its a coaching problem, better coaching means better young English player, better young English players means clubs wont have to import and more talent is gets into the pool of the National team
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Yup. But it takes a lot of time and a lot of investment to get coaching up to the levels we see in Europe, and there's less incentive for an English side to train up an English player when they can just go and hoover up quality young players in Europe.

There's also an issue with getting a promising 17/18 year old first team action and experience. Manchester United have a fantastic youth academy that just churns out players, but since the Giggs/Beckham era, barely any have really pushed into the first team and really made a mark. There's so much pressure on sides now that it's very risky to play someone that inexperienced, and sending them out on loan doesn't help if they're in a rough, physical Championship side.
 
Valente said:
England's single biggest problem is an obvious one. Not enough English players in the EPL. Those teams will always prefer a foreign, more skilled player rather than a much more average skilled English player that's way overpriced anyway.
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That's up to the FA to address, not premier league teams who don't care what passport a youngster at their academy has only that they are good enough.

Also English players have the option to play and study abroad and learn from those systems the same way foreigners ply their trade in England. They don't though because they're too thick to learn a second language.
 
Valente said:
England's single biggest problem is an obvious one. Not enough English players in the EPL. Those teams will always prefer a foreign, more skilled player rather than a much more average skilled English player that's way overpriced anyway.
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It's a problem that isn't going to go away though. The Premier League will never voluntarily agree to a quota on foreign players because it's going to affect the quality of the product on the field.

The only way to do anything about it is via an improvement in coaching standards throughout the system. Unfortunately this is the same thing that has been said year after year and nothing changes because it's easier said than done.

ndiicm said:
Yep Europe has 12 slots so kinda hard for every tom dick and harry team not to get a spot. Even an average England. Not sure why they started Rooney the guy is over rated and their defense needs to be redone.
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Rooney isn't the same without the majestic Emile Ivanhoe Heskey :(

Bold One said:
its a coaching problem, better coaching means better young English player, better young English players means clubs wont have to import and more talent is gets into the pool of the National team
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The current rules about homegrown players don't help much either, there's not much stopping bigger Premier League clubs from poaching teenagers from countries like Italy (Maybe Spain too?) where they can't sign pro contracts until they're 18.
 
Zvonimir Boban said:
The current rules about homegrown players don't help much either, there's not much stopping bigger Premier League clubs from poaching teenagers from countries like Italy (Maybe Spain too?) where they can't sign pro contracts until they're 18.
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Fun fact, Cesc Fabregas counts as a homegrown player for Chelsea. Who, obviously, contributed exactly nothing to Cesc's youth development.

But yes, Premier League clubs poach youth talent from around Europe, just as the big clubs on the continent poach youth talent from around Europe. Short of the EU scrapping freedom of movement, that won't change.
 
Uzzy said:
Yup. But it takes a lot of time and a lot of investment to get coaching up to the levels we see in Europe, and there's less incentive for an English side to train up an English player when they can just go and hoover up quality young players in Europe.

There's also an issue with getting a promising 17/18 year old first team action and experience. Manchester United have a fantastic youth academy that just churns out players, but since the Giggs/Beckham era, barely any have really pushed into the first team and really made a mark. There's so much pressure on sides now that it's very risky to play someone that inexperienced, and sending them out on loan doesn't help if they're in a rough, physical Championship side.
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I feel you, the premier league is a big business and everyone is only concerned about the short term, greed is what is killing the England national, Sky sport's premier league has made too many people millionaires and they will not risk that cash cow for the England national team.
 
England don't have a problem producing great players, it's just getting them to do it at international level that's the problem.

The likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry and Cole were all world class at one stage. Before that you had the likes of Beckham, Ince, Seaman and Campbell. Before that, you had the likes of Hoddle, Robson, Lineker and Gascoigne.

They don't really have anyone great at the moment but I don't see why the likes of Sterling, Barkley and Shaw can't push on and become great players.

Hiring an absolute idiot like Hodgson doesn't help.
 
AcademicSaucer said:
Yep, if England accepts that they are a small team, and play like one, they will have better chances against good teams.
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It's not that they're a minnow, they just don't play smart enough and there's always this insistence that big names are guaranteed a starting place. How Gerrard still gets a spot in central midfield is a fucking mystery.
 
Bold One said:
I feel you, the premier league is a big business and everyone is only concerned about the short term, greed is what is killing the England national, Sky sport's premier league has made too many people millionaires and they will not risk that cash cow for the England national team.
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And to be totally fair, it's not Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City or Arsenal's job to enable the English national team to win things. They've no reason to sacrifice their own success for the chance of some possible benefit to England.
 
Derp1na said:
Hiring an absolute idiot like Hodgson doesn't help.
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Just on this point, I have to ask everyone.. just who else would be good in the role of England manager, provided that the FA want an English manager leading England? Brendan Rodgers is probably the most promising manager from the UK that we've got, but why would he leave Liverpool now? Besides, he's Northern Irish, would he even be acceptable to the FA?
 
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