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Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
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Jimmyfenix
Member
Janky
Forensic Scene
Member
First episode of How To Build A Beast was amazing and Alex just tweeted that Vinny is helping the TV Guide people (I'm assuming) film an interview with Ben Savage. Giant Bomb East!
Stomp Farmer
Neo Member
Has he ever acknowledged that he's gotten the Nomura stuff wrong? The fact that he continues to repeat the same "Nomura is responsible for modern Final Fantasy" fabrication says to me that he either doesn't know, forgets that he's getting it wrong, or thinks the people complaining have their facts wrong. This was going on for as long as he was on the Bombcast, and I assume it continued on the morning show.
My pet theory is that he's getting the idea from 8-4 Play, since Mark and John have said almost the exact same things about Nomura in the past.
(I should say that I'm not much of a fan of Nomura's work aside from liking the Lightning character design -- I just find it crazy that he's continually blamed for a franchise he's never been responsible for.)
paradox121
Member
UFC Jeff totally reminds me of Caveman-Ron Weasley from that Harry Potter game. They have that same, horrifying, other worldly look to them.
Jimmyfenix
Member
BLUE ESTATE QUICK LOOK PLEASE
VeryGooster
Banned
Was watching How to Build a Beast video. I definitely need to check out that Video Games NY place even though I don't hit Manhattan very often.
He found Vinny's secret work stash.
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
shh don't let anyone tell you in the same video I explicitly say what we're really talking about is the Nomura era of Square Enix shhh
Jimmyfenix
Member
ShockingAlberto
Member
I dunno, depends on what you define as the Nomura era. He definitely got big around the PS1 era and Square put out a lot of content during that time.
There are plenty of awesome/hidden spots in that area of the city too.
HamPster PamPster
Member
Giantbomb West = Tetsuya Nomura
Giantbomb Central = Motomu Toriyama
Giantbomb East = Akihiko Yoshida
Giantbomb Central = Motomu Toriyama
Giantbomb East = Akihiko Yoshida
Hardcore Dave = Yasumi Matsuno
Scary how accurate this is.
mohsinkhan
Member
Do we know when it's coming?
bigwinnerx
Member
Plot twist: Vinny leaves for TV Guide Channel.
Robin is the new hire, and Project GBEAST is Alex and his team of mascots cleaning up the mean streets of NYC.
Eventually leading to him reuniting and relaunching the new chappelle show
WrenchNinja
Member
"I think ever since Tetsuya Nomura got his gross hands all over the Final Fantasy series, he's ruined everything"
"He's ruined all of Square-Enix"
"When I sort of hyperbolic-ally attribute Nomura for ruining Square-Enix, obviously he hasn't touched everything, the man cannot be in every place at once ruining every project. But the Nomura era, I I just use him as a sort of veneer toward Square Enix game development of the last 10 to 15 years, it's when the company has gotten so, the only exception being the Kingdom Hearts series, so far away from what I originally fell in love with that company was making in the 90s, y'know when they got started, y'know I just hate his character designs so much, I do really dislike him."
That's a lot to saddle on someone's name. What's the Nomura era of Square-Enix exactly? Cause he's been around since the early 90s and even had his "gross hands" on the fan favourite FFVI. Like I hope you realise the last "10 to 15 years", he's been trapped in his own little world with Kingdom Hearts and FF15. Outside of that he'd do main character designs and that's it. He's never actually directed a Final Fantasy game except for 15. So if your whole issue is with art...then that seems like the least of Square Enix's problems.
But there is no "Nomura era". Since FFVII there have been an equal number of mainline games that have featured his art (VII, VIII, X XIII) and those that haven't (IX, XI, XII, XIV). How can it be the "Nomura Era" if Nomura has had nothing to do with half the games in that "era?" And again, Nomura's only contribution to any of those games has been character designs. FFXV will be the first time he has ever directed a mainline FF game.
Keyser Soze
Member
Who would have thought bringing up Final Fantasy would have lead to should idiotic rhetoric.
Final Fantasy is a franchise that should be dead, stop debating it like it matters in anyway.
Final Fantasy is a franchise that should be dead, stop debating it like it matters in anyway.
Why are you being so pedantic about a single opinion?
Just disagree and move on? There's no need to get specific about times and dates? We all know what Patrick means.
I mean, character designs in a character led, story based RPG seems like a pretty important thing to me.
WrenchNinja
Member
I'm not being pedantic. It's an opinion I see comes up that I don't understand the basis of. I don't know what he means by Nomura era. If you're not interested in the discussion, why enter it?
In a character led story based game, the writing should probably be more important to you. Which surprise, he hasn't been apart of with the Final Fantasy games.
I said "Nomura Is No Good" three times and nothing happened but then I said it a fourth time and my lights went out and three robed figures appeared. The tallest one said "Please explain why you think this in detail and be sure to get your facts straight or suffer our wrath." I was not ready for this. I hadn't read his wikipedia page in years.
Needless to say, I didn't get any of my facts right and have been turned into a giant kitty-cat man. This is the darkest of days but, wow... My fur is fly as hell.
Needless to say, I didn't get any of my facts right and have been turned into a giant kitty-cat man. This is the darkest of days but, wow... My fur is fly as hell.
Yes, you are. Stating timelines is being pedantic. It's a pretty universally known critique (whether you agree with it or not) that Square's Nomura period started around the time of the early PS2 games with The Bouncer. His visual style is pretty fucking clear to see
You dont understand the basis of an opinion you're unwilling to even entertain? Way to go. Someone doesnt like something you do and you're unwilling to even conceive why that might be.
Generally speaking, there was a pretty profound shift in Square games between the PSX and PS2 era. It's not difficult to see.
Dont be petulant. Of course I'm interested - that's why I wrote my reply to you.
What? Character design isnt just *LETS DRAW FUCKING CHARACTERS*. It's creating the backstory and working with the directors and the designers to create story arcs. It's an integral piece of the design of the game and (according to some) because of Nomura's influence his character designs basically put into action the story and specific beats.
CITY OF THIEVES OR NOTHING
But it is an opinion based solely on ignorance. It's like blaming Obama for high gas prices. It's false and does nothing to fix the actual problem. There isn't anything wrong with explaining why someone's opinion doesn't make sense.
Besides this is a discussion forum. You should expect your opinions to be questioned.
Stomp Farmer
Neo Member
I just gave you the benefit of the doubt and checked the video, and while you do eventually pull the "he ruined all of Square Enix" punch, it's still a ridiculous notion, and one you've spoken much more strongly in the past. I do apologize for putting words in your mouth there, but they're words you've absolutely said before.
I just plain don't understand why you insist of framing the state of Final Fantasy with the perceived influence of a guy who's had negligible involvement in the series for 15 years. As I understand it, his involvement in Final Fantasy peaked with VI (a fan favourite), VII (the most popular Final Fantasy game), and VIII (your favourite); regardless of what you think of those games, they clearly aren't what led to X-2 or XIII.
To put it a more constructive way, if you're not happy with the direction Square Enix has gone, there are plenty of way more powerful people in the company responsible for that direction. The guy had almost nothing to do with the XIII series aside from the main character designs, and that series is the number one thing held against modern SE. Sakaguchi oversaw the shift in Final Fantasy games, and Kitase and Toriyama (among others) were the ones producing and directing most of the more divisive games. Toriyama in particular is probably the guy you should be griping about.
I'll go one step further than you with Kingdom Hearts and say that even the first game had a pretty stupid story and lame non-Disney character designs, but at the same time the series' success probably gave them a much-needed financial buffer with which to weather the extended development times of XII, XIII, Versus XIII and XIV.
The ignorance in question is relative.
I'm not ignorant because I dont know the character artists on Final Fantasy X. But my opinion is not invalidated because I do know that Nomura was a prominent figure at the time.
It's pedantic because you guys are picking apart an argument to prove your point. When in fact the argument isnt "NOMURA IS FUCKING AWFUL" it's "I dont like the company Square became when Nomura became a prominent figure on their AAA games because of x, y and z".
You guys dont seem to see this...
WrenchNinja
Member
No, stating times is getting a gauge on what the era is. So no, not being pedantic, just trying to understand. His visual style is one thing, but that isn't an end all for laying the blame of the entire company's failings on his name.
I don't understand hence I'm asking the question. What's your deal dude?
Yeah, there was. What does that have to do with Nomura? Again, saddling the entirety of the company downward spiral on his art seems pretty weird. Characters designers do concepts and basic backstory yes, but they're not the ones writing the plot, character interactions, script, directing scenes, design scenarios, etc. They're not the ones mismanaging the company's resources. I don't know why you're getting so upset about me even bringing up the fact that he hasn't had that much influence in the direction of the company.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
fuck patrick, why did you poke the beehive like you're brad or some shit. now we have to see people argue about Nomura's shitty art for two or three more pages.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Some people need to stop being incredibly rude, right now.
Dont assume I'm getting upset because I happen to disagree with you.
I have no 'deal'. I'm confused at your complete lack of context on an argument being put forth. The pedantry comes from your lack of acknowledging the salient point.
It's a pretty simple argument being put forth which quite obviously wasnt expected to cause any concern or insight. It was simply a throwaway comment in a chat and I cant understand why you're pouring over the details instead of discussing the point that obviously concerns you.
Yeah. Sorry - I'm not trying to be rude and I can see that perhaps I'm being aggressive.
I'll leave it there. Sorry if I caused offence to anyone.
funkystudent
Member
I feel like square had 2 choices after the ps2. Follow the FFX people and the FF12 people and somehow the people who made FFX won the fight.
A shame because XII feels like the last game Square made where they had ambition.
Everyone who made X got to make XIII and its sequels and people who made XII either no longer work there or got put on the FFXIV death march.
Nomura has been off making Kingdom Hearts games for the most part. Has he done much to Final Fantasy other then character designs? I wouldnt blame him for XIII problems. Hell for the most part the character designs in that game are ok. Its everything else that sucks
A shame because XII feels like the last game Square made where they had ambition.
Everyone who made X got to make XIII and its sequels and people who made XII either no longer work there or got put on the FFXIV death march.
Nomura has been off making Kingdom Hearts games for the most part. Has he done much to Final Fantasy other then character designs? I wouldnt blame him for XIII problems. Hell for the most part the character designs in that game are ok. Its everything else that sucks
Infinite Justice
Member
IIRC until Versus/FFXV he was mostly doing character design stuff (although you could possibly count Advent Children but that's FFVII stuff?).
Kingdom Hearts is his pet project that has its own set of fuckups
its fucking hilarious.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I think even just referring to a time period as the "Nomura era" is problematic and awkward because:
A) It can mean different things. I imagine of the PS1 era (when Square was doing a lot of cool and different stuff) as the beginning of a "Nomura era." Just using it to mean "PS2 era" is odd, even if that's the period where his designs got insane and stupid.
B) It ignores the fact that there were multiple teams and art designers at Square-Enix throughout that PS2 era doing different things, and that Nomura was just the character artist and Kingdom Hearts guy.
C) Despite producing abominations of art like Seymour Guado and Nooj, Nomura is still a real human being and describing him as this monstrous Other who is representative of a company composed of thousands of people is really gross and un-Patrick-like.
A) It can mean different things. I imagine of the PS1 era (when Square was doing a lot of cool and different stuff) as the beginning of a "Nomura era." Just using it to mean "PS2 era" is odd, even if that's the period where his designs got insane and stupid.
B) It ignores the fact that there were multiple teams and art designers at Square-Enix throughout that PS2 era doing different things, and that Nomura was just the character artist and Kingdom Hearts guy.
C) Despite producing abominations of art like Seymour Guado and Nooj, Nomura is still a real human being and describing him as this monstrous Other who is representative of a company composed of thousands of people is really gross and un-Patrick-like.
It's funny how relevant the "This is Phil Fish" video is to the Nomura point. It is funny because I have proof that he has watched the video yet he is committing the same tokenization with some added hasty generalization.
Keyser Soze
Member
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