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[rakkadakka]

That "Plz Diversify Your Panel" might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on the internet.

This is the person who we are supposed take seriously on these issues.

 

[Myggen]

Instead of being passive aggressive and suggestive, I hope people just flat out say what they base their disappointment on. Like for an example if person Y didn't get invited to an interview, they should start the conversation by listing their qualifications and comparing them to Dan Ryckert's.

It's one thing to say "Boohoo I didn't get hired because they hired a white male" but it would definitely carry a ton more weight if instead they made a point on how much more qualified they were.

Of course I guess even then there's no objective way to quantify/qualify one's entertainment value but that doesn't jive well with their point, does it?

That one blog post that was listed was more about the person not getting an e-mail response, just silence, than not getting the job. Which I can understand seems a bit shitty. Still, that's something you should probably put on CBSi as a whole, not GB. If that hiring process functions like every hiring process I've been a part of, Jeff probably didn't even see 2/3 of the applications because they were rejected by another part of the company.

This is the person who we are supposed take seriously on these issues.

Oh man. This is gonna get real, real fast.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Jar time soon. I can't wait for it!

 

[LeBart]

This just in, people on twitter think they're making a difference by creating a tumblr. More at 11.

 

[komplanen]

That one blog post that was listed was more about the person not getting an e-mail response, just silence, than not getting the job. Which I can understand seems a bit shitty. Still, that's something you should probably put on CBSi as a whole, not GB. If that hiring process functions like every hiring process I've been a part of, Jeff probably didn't even see 2/3 of the applications because they were rejected by another part of the company.

Yeah I read that blog post and wasn't even really thinking of that when I wrote that. I mean in some odd way I was just getting that out there since someone suggested there might be an outburst of anti-sausage-fest comments being prepared. I sort of lay my opinion out before the shit storm happens, as a guideline (that no one will read, obviously).

 

[rbanke]

Rami'll be on panels if the panels are diverse. Patrick (who booked the guests this year) was aware of the issue with this year's panels before that site was even made, and is apparently writing up something about it (if he hasn't posted that already?). So ideally, Rami will still be around since we'll be getting better, more diverse panels. Everyone wins, hopefully.

They had women on panels this year. Patrick is going to try and be even better about it next year. Shouldn't be a problem.

For some reason, I just looked at GDC/E3/etc podcasts as being just extensions of the bombcast and since its typically not a very diverse group, I figured it was 'on the list' of things not to go on. I guess if people signing that will still go on an individual podcast/panel as long as the one they are attending is diverse, then cool.

 

[SlowRevolution]

There are gender/diversity issues in Video Games.

Who gets to be on a panel is pretty far down on that list.

Would Ryan have taken this criticism as seriously as Patrick?

just because it's not at the top of the list (and I don't even know how you would go about ranking diversity issues by importance) doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed

and I don't really get where you're going with the Ryan thing

This just in, people on twitter think they're making a difference by creating a tumblr. More at 11.

what do you want them to do, march in the streets?

 

[BTA]

Would Ryan have taken this criticism as seriously as Patrick?

...that's kind of a gross thing to say, dude.

This is the person who we are supposed take seriously on these issues.

I'm not seeing the issue here?

For context, though: the site was originally supposed to be entirely about the lack of women on the panels, and is now about all kinds of diversity.

EDIT:

For some reason, I just looked at GDC/E3/etc podcasts as being just extensions of the bombcast and since its typically not a very diverse group, I figured it was 'on the list' of things not to go on. I guess if people signing that will still go on an individual podcast/panel as long as the one they are attending is diverse, then cool.

Oh, I see. Yeah, for the purpose of this discussion, each group of people that came onto the E3 Bombcasts at a time were their own "panel". (Part of the twitter discussion that led to the site being made was how one night there was only one woman per panel.)

 

[BUNTING1243]

This just in, people on twitter think they're making a difference by creating a tumblr. More at 11.

Hey man, don't discredit these "Twitter Activists (or Twittervists)." Remember #CANCELCOLBERT?

 

[daydream]

People are mad that they didn't get hired. It's a natural reaction. If you're expecting professionalism from these people, then you've obviously never dealt with Tumblr/Twitter before.

Joke's on you, though, for making a big deal out of it.

 

[Renpatsu]

Hmn, sometimes these things are more about a shared alignment of ideals to strive for rather than strict guidelines that must be followed to the letter.

So in this instance we've got multiple people promoting the notion of diversity in a relatively benign protest of no participation.

It is less about not showing up on panels and more about highlighting the fact the there is a distinct portion of people who would like to see more diversity and calling attention to it in this manner.

 

[Patryn]

That one blog post that was listed was more about the person not getting an e-mail response, just silence, than not getting the job. Which I can understand seems a bit shitty. Still, that's something you should probably put on CBSi as a whole, not GB. If that hiring process functions like every hiring process I've been a part of, Jeff probably didn't even see 2/3 of the applications because they were rejected by another part of the company.

Think about it this way: If we know this many people who have at least a little rep in the gaming journalism game applied, how many plain GB fans who have no experience and almost no qualifications applied?

Given the audience, I could have seen them easily get 2000+ resumes. There's no way Jeff would have been able to look at them all. It would have been corporate HR, and anyone who's applied and been rejected for a corporate gig knows that they stop giving any shits about you as soon as you're no longer an active candidate.

 

[Zomba13]

There are gender/diversity issues in Video Games.

Who gets to be on a panel is pretty far down on that list.

Would Ryan have taken this criticism as seriously as Patrick?

I feel bad for Patrick. He had to take over that stuff from Ryan, it was his first year and he tried really hard to diversify it and work around people dropping out and changing time slots and adding extra people and basically. gets people saying "Yeah well your best isn't good enough your ignorant sexist pig"

 

[MiniBossBattle]

So wait, someone complained that a large company didn't reply back?

This diversity issues exists but what also exists is finding qualified people. I know the animators remove names and resumes and look at the reels by themselves. My wife and I have a bin of places we applied when first starting in development, most of them with no replies.
What shocks me in the industry is the superficial or flippant way people talk about some parts of the games industry (facebook & mobile games in particular) when they often have more women in their development studios as well as a larger audience (older and younger).

Also, when you talk video games, are you talking about the coverage(journalism/youtube/blogs), production or development or the actual audience you are talking to? Who is the audience anyways?

 

[BTA]

I guess a lot of my confusion towards the reaction here is because a lot of the people being discussed here are actually people that Giant Bomb's staff (especially Patrick) know and talk to, often publicly on Twitter. It's not like these are random people attacking the site; they're friends with the guys running it and want them to do better, and this isn't being misunderstood by them as it is here.

 

[Dragon]

Hey man, don't discredit these "Twitter Activists (or Twittervists)." Remember #CANCELCOLBERT?

Remember #PS4NODRM?

I realize you're being tongue and cheek, but that Simms character is the last person to spout about diversity. She can barely form a coherent sentence. Giving her the time of day is like giving 9/11 conspiracy theorists the time of day. She has no leg to stand on, and neither do they.

I guess a lot of my confusion towards the reaction here is because a lot of the people being discussed here are actually people that Giant Bomb's staff (especially Patrick) know and talk to, often publicly on Twitter. It's not like these are random people attacking the site; they're friends with the guys running it and want them to do better, and this isn't being misunderstood by them as it is here.

Elizabeth Simms seems to spew typing diarrhea on twitter. I doubt Patrick and her are friends. And even if they are, she went about it the wrong way. It's nice she's back pedaled but really her hypocritical views did nothing.

 

[hamchan]

This is the person who we are supposed take seriously on these issues.

Even though I agree with the basic notions of diversity = good, she really is a very abrasive and unlikable character.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Okay, that's enough. You guys are veering dangerously close to "complete jerk" territory on this.

 

[Myggen]

Yeah I read that blog post and wasn't even really thinking of that when I wrote that. I mean in some odd way I was just getting that out there since someone suggested there might be an outburst of anti-sausage-fest comments being prepared. I sort of lay my opinion out before the shit storm happens, as a guideline (that no one will read, obviously).

I agree with what you wrote, so at least someone read it! And I totally understand the need to preemptively get your opinion out there, given how fast this thread moved the last time this was brought up and how these discussions normally go. Still, the discussion we had on the subject in the GB E3 thread was one of the most civil discussion I've read on "diversity in gaming", so good on us I guess. Hope it stays like that.

My 2 cents is that I'm all for more diversity in gaming. I'm gay, so I've got that going for me in the "minority column", but I'm a white dude. I consider myself a feminist, and totally see the point Leigh Alexander usually brings up about women in gaming, and the stuff Elizabeth Simins said on the subject during E3 (even if she brought it up in a manner I didn't really agree with, and way too black and white...but that's Twitter I guess).

That said, I'm not against GB hiring Dan Ryckert. Does that make me a hypocrite? Maybe? But he's literally been one of my dream hires for the site since he first appeared on the E3 late show four years ago. He's an extremely funny and outgoing dude, just what GB needs with Vinny starting GBNY and...Ryan So I don't blame them for hiring that dude. Also, we do not know much about who applied for the position. To just have a knee-jerk reaction about "JUST WHITE DUDES!" without at the same time knowing who they rejected strikes me as dumb.

As for that Tumblr. Well, I don't really know what to make of that. It seems so vague and at the same time absolute, and it seems a bit silly to make a Google doc of suggested minorities in gaming that you can bring to your panels.

 

[Sakwoff]

People are mad that they didn't get hired. It's a natural reaction. If you're expecting professionalism from these people, then you've obviously never dealt with Tumblr/Twitter before.

Joke's on you, though, for making a big deal out of it.

Huh? Are these two things even related? The push towards diversity in panels has been going on for a while (I think it's a good thing, for the record) now. I remember Mike Bithell talking about that stuff months ago, for example.

 

[LeBart]

Edit: complying with mod. o7

 

[daydream]

Huh? Are these two things even related? The push towards diversity in panels has been going on for a while (I think it's a good thing, for the record) now. I remember Mike Bithell talking about that stuff months ago, for example.

I was solely and specifically talking about the hiring process.

I'm all for more diversity in their panels. We discussed it at length in the 'GB @ E3' thread.

 

[chubigans]

I dunno about that Video Essay thing, it seemed very...un-Giantbomb-ish? I would have gotten more out of a written review than a video.

 

[cdViking]

That one blog post that was listed was more about the person not getting an e-mail response, just silence, than not getting the job. Which I can understand seems a bit shitty. Still, that's something you should probably put on CBSi as a whole, not GB. If that hiring process functions like every hiring process I've been a part of, Jeff probably didn't even see 2/3 of the applications because they were rejected by another part of the company.

If somebody's complaining about not getting a response to a job app, they probably haven't applied for many jobs at large companies or for professional positions where there are more than a few apps submitted. There may well be endemic diversity issues in video games press/journalism, but as blonde-haired, blue-eyed male who has in the past applied to hundreds of jobs in a professional field and not received a response (even an auto-generated application acknowledgement), that isn't evidence of anything.

edit: And regarding the GB E3 panels generally, I think Patrick did a good job of trying to keep the panels diverse. I'm interested in more specific criticism as to actual snubs than general "lack of diversity" complaints; it's one thing to perpetuate diversity problems in video games by only playing to your audience, and another to have your panels constructed as such because there literally aren't any potential guests who would both be comfortable on a panel and bring a diverse opinion.

My only issues with the panels this year were occasional overcrowding (which definitely happened in a couple of cases where female guests kind of got cut off by "friend-of-the-site" regs) and otherwise interesting guests clearly having had a bit much to drink. (Greg Miller especially, and Mikey Neumann to a much lesser extent)

 

[chogidogs]

This lady has a sociopath-like twitter feed, huh?

 

[komplanen]

At this point I'm going to say again that if today's Jar Time is just a bunch of "E3 and its place in the video game industry" talk instead of getting real with this hiring stuff I'm going to get bummed out.

It has a little to do with this current talk we're having here but mostly I'm just kinda tired of "transitional GB" as it has been for many months out of the past two years. I'm fucking ready for Giant Bomb on gear 1+, differentials locked and all-wheel drive. It's about fucking time

 

[santeesioux]

Patrick is installing Dynasty Warriors, fuck yeah.

 

[Dragon]

Patrick is installing Dynasty Warriors, fuck yeah.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I dunno about that Video Essay thing, it seemed very...un-Giantbomb-ish? I would have gotten more out of a written review than a video.

I feel the same. Feels out of place.

 

[Renpatsu]

I'm fucking ready for Giant Bomb on gear 1+, differentials locked and all-wheel drive. It's about fucking time

Building a Beast Episode 2 is my current Holy Grail.

Patrick is installing Dynasty Warriors, fuck yeah.

It begins!

 

[BTA]

Elizabeth Simms seems to spew typing diarrhea on twitter. I doubt Patrick and her are friends. And even if they are, she went about it the wrong way. It's nice she's back pedaled but really her hypocritical views did nothing.

She hasn't done any back pedaling. The thing she meant to be specifically targeting an issue about women is now about all forms of diversity. That's it.

And yeah, it's not like he's following her and several of the other people you're talking about on Twitter or anything. Or that they've already talked about these issues weeks ago, calmly. Or that he even retweeted that article with the not getting an e-mail back thing in it and thanked the author for writing it.

You're defending people who don't need defending by attacking their friends, plain and simple.

EDIT: Didn't see the mod post; I'll shut up now.

 

[Myggen]

If somebody's complaining about not getting a response to a job app, they probably haven't applied for many jobs at large companies or for professional positions where there are more than a few apps submitted. There may well be endemic diversity issues in video games press/journalism, but as blonde-haired, blue-eyed male who has in the past applied to hundreds of jobs in a professional field and not received a response (even an auto-generated application acknowledgement), that isn't evidence of anything.

I wasn't saying it was! HR handles most applications and they don't give a fuck about replying if you didn't get the job. A friend of mine applied for about 20 jobs at big companies a year ago, didn't get a single response from the companies that rejected her application. That's just how it is at most employers.

edit: Okay, that's it from me. Saw EmCee's post.

 

[Lijik]

edit- missed emcees post, wasnt really adding anything to the discussion so might as well remove it

 

[hamchan]

I dunno about that Video Essay thing, it seemed very...un-Giantbomb-ish? I would have gotten more out of a written review than a video.

I don't really know what it was to be honest. Felt like his impressions of the game, with some context of other games he likes, but not really substantial enough to be a proper review? Plus that song felt a bit weird too and out of place. I guess it really was just a video thing.

It's good that's Patrick is experimenting with new formats though.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I think we'll all be better off if someone gives DW a fair shake. Even if I still think it looks like irredeemable gash.

 

[BeerSnob]

Why the hell does Jeff know Convoy by heart? Maybe the real question is why don't I?

 

[fuzzyset]

Isn't the idea of http://plzdiversifyyourpanel.tumblr.com to not go on podcasts/panels that are lacking diversity. As much as I love GB, they are a bunch of straight white dudes. Unless I'm missing something.

Considering that GB's panels had the 'appropriate ratio' of women with respect to the industry as a whole, I think this movement is a little hyperbolic. With that said, is the assumption that all straight white dudes hold the same world view? Or that sexuality, gender, and skin color are only variables that differentiate people?

edit: nvm, mod post.

 

[popo]

If you're talking about the article I think you're talking about, all that was said (as part of a larger piece about writing about games currently) was that she didn't get even get an e-mail back when she applied. And Patrick thanked her for writing the article. If you're not... regardless, that's legitimate criticism? I'm personally pretty disappointed that we're probably getting another two white men as the hires. There are people who aren't white men who are known names with experience, and even if white men are the majority of that group, at some point you're just feeding that loop and perpetuating that.

More her follow up tweets (and the half a dozen replies agreeing with her) that the position was already filled before they advertised it.

Also, nobody got emails saying they were rejected. It told you on the web submission form. It is how the faceless HR software that big companies use work these days.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Patrick is installing Dynasty Warriors, fuck yeah.[/QUOTE

More lubu!

 

[Jb]

I think we'll all be better off if someone gives DW a fair shake. Even if I still think it looks like irredeemable gash.

Sure would make the DW warriors a little more entertaining to watch.

 

[cdViking]

I wasn't saying it was! HR handles most applications and they don't give a fuck about replying if you didn't get the job. A friend of mine applied for about 20 jobs at big companies a year ago, didn't get a single response from the companies that rejected her application. That's just how it is at most employers.

edit: Okay, that's it from me. Saw EmCee's post.

I was trying to reinforce the point you were making. You are 100% correct.

 

[santeesioux]

This obviously means Jim Sterling is the new hire because he loves Dynasty Warriors (we're still doing this, right?)

 

[LeBart]

I feel the same. Feels out of place.

Kinda like Patrick himself, really.
Edit: Well that came out wrong...
I meant to say he's always been more interesting than entertaining to me, compared to the general goofiness that is Giant Bomb. I like his stuff.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

When are they going to make a new dynasty warrior game it is always complete editions of their older games now.

 

[santeesioux]

When are they going to make a new dynasty warrior game it is always complete editions of their older games now.

Samurai Warrirors 4 is coming out in October!

 

[TharpDaddy]

Patrick is a one-man crew over at Chicago. Even if the execution (imo) wasn't great on this video, him learning and experimenting with video production means he can really expand the type of content he puts out. I'm glad he did the video! More types of content is always appreciated.

 

[Tan]

Something about Spintires makes me super uncomfortable.

 

[hamchan]

I don't think Patrick will like Dynasty Warriors. I don't think he's much of a fan of the Three Kingsoms period and I don't think he'll be into the gameplay at all.

It's not a game that you suddenly get and understand its hidden brilliance like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter either, it really is as shallow as it looks. And this is from someone who really enjoys the series too.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Samurai Warrirors 4 is coming out in October!

Ah forgot about that one! Hyrule warriors looks decent.

 

[shadyspace]

I'm not even really sure what being a part of Giant Bomb does for Patrick at this point.