Luis Suarez the football vampire has bitten another player [Update: BANNED]

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John Dunbar said:
so you honestly believe that most football players would let their team be eliminated from the most prestigious tournament in the world even if they could prevent (or at least delay) it with a handball?
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Yes. Again, your premise start thinking everyone is a cheater, which is not the case. That's why cases like this (Suárez) get so much flak and appears in the worldwide media. It's not normal and it's not acceptable.

gutter_trash said:
Ghana was awarded a penalty to take and they blew it, end of story
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Way to not understand what's the point discussed.

I'll make it clear for you:

Even if Ghana didn't blow the penalty, it doesn't change the fact that Suárez is a scumbag cheater and doesn't hide either the fact that not only a lot of people think what he did was justified, but also treat him like a real hero.
 
EuropeOG said:
james-rodriguez-goal-against-japan-c.gif
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This is beautiful football.
 
Oveja Negra said:
Yes. Again, your premise start thinking everyone is a cheater, which is not the case. That's why cases like this (Suárez) get so much flak and appears in the worldwide media. It's not normal and it's not acceptable.
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every good defender would commit a last man tackle even though they know they will get a red in situations like that. what suarez did was simply a slightly more dramatic version of it (except with no risk of actually injuring someone). your insistence of calling it cheating simply means that committing any foul in the game is cheating. you can of course think that, but i can't imagine you having any interest in the game if that is the case.
 
Greyface said:
It is cheating. Suarez did not follow the rules. There is no law of the game that says 'block a goalbound ball with your hand in last minute of the game in exchange for a red card'. The rules say do not use your hands. He broke the rules and was caught. No different than if he tried to copy answers for an exam and was caught. I understand why he did it, just like I understand why a player might dive for penalty in the last minute of the game. However it is cheating
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It's as much cheating as committing the simplest of fouls. Like tripping an opponent. People can choose to attribute a different degree to that handball if it fits their rhetoric, but technically there is no difference. You commit a foul and you get your penalty.
 
ITT people don't know the difference between commiting a foul and cheating.

Handball to prevent a goal: foul.
Diving to get a penalty: cheating.
 
John Dunbar said:
your insistence of calling it cheating simply means that committing any foul in the game is cheating.
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Of course it is, why do you think when a player does that gets a yellow/red card, PK, etc.? the rules are telling you that's not acceptable, period.

John Dunbar said:
but i can't imagine you having any interest in the game if that is the case.
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Divings, acting fake injuries, parking the bus, systematic fouls ala Netherlands, piss me off. I want all those practices to be eliminated. I know it's hard as hell, but we can always try.

I still love and enjoy watching and playing football, despite all.
 
Oveja Negra said:
Of course it is, why do you think when a player does that gets a yellow/red card, PK, etc.? the rules are telling you that's not acceptable, period.
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i suppose that is one way to look at it, but personally i think your view does nothing but diminish the significance of cheating.
 
Oveja Negra said:
Divings, acting fake injuries, parking the bus, systematic fouls ala Netherlands, piss me off. I want all those practices to be eliminated. I know it's hard as hell, but we can always try.

I still love and enjoy watching and playing football, despite all.
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I agree with you on all these counts except perhaps the parking the bus-thing.
Originally, "parking the bus" was something you did out of weakness, the only possible way to play for the most incompetent teams. Now, the problem is that even the teams like Chelsea and Real Madrid embarrassingly do this.
 
Suarez did the right thing handling that ball off the line, it was the referees fault for not giving them a goal after he got the red card if I'm to be honest.
 
akaoni said:
Suarez did the right thing handling that ball off the line, it was the referees fault for not giving them a goal after he got the red card if I'm to be honest.
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Unfortunately, that is not an option in the ruleset. If the ball did not go into the goal, it doesn't count.
 
akaoni said:
Suarez did the right thing handling that ball off the line, it was the referees fault for not giving them a goal after he got the red card if I'm to be honest.
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Does a referee has that kind of power IF the ball (clearly) never went over the line (but would go otherwise)?
 
Apparently not, referee could've pretended for giggles. Suarez did do the right thing in the end, the rules need to change if it's a problem.
 
jts said:
It's as much cheating as committing the simplest of fouls. Like tripping an opponent. People can choose to attribute a different degree to that handball if it fits their rhetoric, but technically there is no difference. You commit a foul and you get your penalty.
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No it's not. A simple foul is making a mistake while trying to follow the rules. The rules say you can tackle and but the player doesn't tackle properly. Going back to the exam analogy: it would be like using a wrong pencil, writing on the back of the answer sheet, not showing your work, answering a question not in the prescribed manner, and so on, during an exam. Every exam has instructions on how to take it and you be deducted points for not following instructions but you wouldn't be labelled a cheater for breaking those rules. However quickly trying to copy answers as the final minutes of the test run down would get you labelled a cheater. Technically all those are examples are breaking the rules but we label some types of breaking the rules as cheating.

What's cheating?
Wiktionary defintion said:
To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation.
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That's the commonly accepted definition for cheating and that's why a simple slide tackle foul is not cheating but Suarez's last minute handball to prevent a goal is cheating
 
It was the absolute last moment of an elimination match in a World Cup, not doing the handball would've meant Uruguay goes home, period. I never blamed Suarez for that and I'm not remotely surprised he was treated a hero in his home country for that. :P I've never considered it cheating, because it's not. You can absolutely do that, and you can absolutely get a red card for doing it.

Greyface said:
No it's not. A simple foul is making a mistake while trying to follow the rules. The rules say you can tackle and but the player doesn't tackle properly. Going back to the exam analogy: it would be like using a wrong pencil, writing on the back of the answer sheet, not showing your work, answering a question not in the prescribed manner, and so on, during an exam. Every exam has instructions on how to take it and you be deducted points for not following instructions but you wouldn't be labelled a cheater for breaking those rules. However quickly trying to copy answers as the final minutes of the test run down would get you labelled a cheater. Technically all those are examples are breaking the rules but we label some types of breaking the rules as cheating.

What's cheating?

That's the commonly accepted definition for cheating and that's why a simple slide tackle foul is not cheating but Suarez's last minute handball to prevent a goal is cheating
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What are you talking about? Most fouls are done on purpose.
 
Semantics are not fun. He did what he needed to in the same way someone might force a foul as the last man if they think it means saving the team.
 
jett said:
What are you talking about? Most fouls are done on purpose.
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Jts said the simplest of fouls. The simplest foul is making a mistake and breaking the rules (a missed tackle, a foul throw etc) so that's what I used in my reply.

jett said:
It was the absolute last moment of an elimination match in a World Cup, not doing the handball would've meant Uruguay goes home, period. I never blamed Suarez for that and I'm not remotely surprised he was treated a hero in his home country for that. :P I've never considered it cheating, because it's not. You can absolutely do that, and you can absolutely get a red card for doing it.
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akaoni said:
Semantics are not fun. He did what he needed to in the same way someone might force a foul as the last man if they think it means saving the team.
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Again, we understand why he cheated. We even understand why his teammates or country might be happy in that instance for him to cheat. That however doesn't mean it's not cheating
 
The Hermit said:
Even chellini ( the bitten player) said it was too harsh of a punishment.

People wanting the head of this player ( who last red card was from 2007 due to his heroic jump against Gana) are being the most irrational people in this thread.
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I think I remember you. You're the guy that identified himself as a doctor, and was purposely breaking the medical code of ethics (and the brazilian law), by spreading patient information on the internet without written consent, right? If so, your post isn't very surprising, since - apparently - moral standards ain't one of your qualities.
 
John Dunbar said:
i suppose that is one way to look at it, but personally i think your view does nothing but diminish the significance of cheating.
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Well, let's agree to disagree.

Mr.Pig said:
I agree with you on all these counts except perhaps the parking the bus-thing.
Originally, "parking the bus" was something you did out of weakness, the only possible way to play for the most incompetent teams. Now, the problem is that even the teams like Chelsea and Real Madrid embarrassingly do this.
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Yeah, I agree with all you said.

Personally, I don't justify it, but to a degree I can understand a very weak team doing it against Barcelona/Bayern for example, but it just rubs me the wrong way when a powerful team does it.

Anyways, in both cases, it just means a bad show and also very little respect for the people who paid a ticket to watch an entertaining game.

I'd just leave it at that, parking the bus as a stragey/tactic has been discussed ad nauseam.
 
terrisus said:
I know I keep bringing up other situations, but I feel that the above paragraph can stand on its own without any examples, so if one doesn't like the examples, it can be taken as is. But, when I see players at the end of Basketball games chasing each other around, not having any mind for the ball itself, but just trying to whack each other for the purpose of stopping the clock, it just looks comically absurd. And, even aside from end-game "strategy," it's even involved in occasional game "strategy," such as in the infamous "Hack-a-Shaq." And, fouling someone who is bad at free-throw shooting so he didn't score his dunk or layup or whatever, and instead has to try for foul shots, if anything seems worse to me than blocking a goal and making someone try for a penalty kick, considering the higher rate of success for penalty kicks, and the fact that the player is out of the game after one red card, as opposed to Basketball players getting multiple fouls to "work with."
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I think the thing about this one is that -- given how prevalent this has been for such a long time -- it's just accepted as part of the game. And I don't mean that in the implicit "the rules allow for it" sense, but just in that it happens in so many games that if it was deemed problematic, they'd have done something about it. After all, it's an easy problem to fix. But I think it's deemed not a problem. Really, without such a rule, there's nothing stopping a team from standing around, holding the ball tight, and running down the shot clock every possession to kill time. If I'm not dribbling, it's very unlikely that you can challenge me for the ball in any fashion that isn't a foul. And if intentional fouling to send someone to the free throw line to in the hopes that they miss one or both and you get the ball back was something that needed to be fix, there's an easy fix: a foul results in a throw-in and resets the shot clock. There, problem solved. But I don't think it's viewed as a problem to start with. Because the alternative is that the team that's down is powerless to preventing the team that's ahead from running out the clock as much as possible.

terrisus said:
Aside from that, I just think my main issue is with people taking such offense to something like that, while ignoring so many other things that are done in matches. It isn't a "Well, why worry about this when so many other bad things are done!" or "Everyone's a hypocrite!" thing or anything, but more just honestly wondering why people are fine with so many other things, or ignore so many other things, or are unaware of so many other things, while taking such offense to something like a handball. I mean, if that's one's view of the game, that doing something like that is so wrong, certainly I can't tell anyone else how to think. But, I would just think that setting the bar at something like that would be to where so many other things would be an issue, and many other things would be significantly worse, and wondering why those other things aren't really made a big deal out of.
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And I think the issue that you're overlooking is that it's not these incidents in isolation that are attracting so much attention, it's also the person committing them and the fact that he's at the center of all these controversies. The handball gets so much attention now not just because of the impact it had four years ago, but the fact that we are now talking about the same fucking guy getting booted from a World Cup for biting someone for the third time. And others are also noting things like him being at the center of racist comments, and being a prominent diver. I'm sure there's more, but I'll freely admit that many people here know more about soccer/football than I do.

People are free to come to their own conclusions. But I kind of feel like there comes a time when most sane people should stop defending/playing devil's advocate for a person. And for a figure like Suarez, I think that time is certainly now.
 
neorej said:
ITT people don't know the difference between commiting a foul and cheating.

Handball to prevent a goal: foul.
Diving to get a penalty: cheating.
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Suárez intention was pretty sure to get a PK by riling up chiellini. it's certainly cheating.

I still think banning the guy off the stadiums is really harsh
 
neorej said:
ITT people don't know the difference between commiting a foul and cheating.

Handball to prevent a goal: foul.
Diving to get a penalty: cheating.
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In this post - guy use semantics to defend his favorite sports player.

A foul is given because someone cheated. A foul is given because you didn't follow the rules of the sport. Not following the rules is cheating, it is the definition of cheating.

Going by your definition, why bother to have rules at all?
 
It's kind of a needless debate of semantics to begin with, but the only thing I can ascertain is that apparently, some people think that it's only cheating if one does something deceptively thinking they won't get caught.
 
entrement said:
Of course they're gonna support their guy.
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Why

For instance, nobody here in Italy was supporting Totti when he spat on Poulsen at Euro 2004 as far as I remember. I know I wasn't, everybody was angry at Totti for ruining the team's chances, certainly not at the UEFA committee who suspended him.

I mean, c'mon the president of Uruguay speaking in his defense. What an embarassment

Has anyone within the Uruguayan team even come close to suggesting that Suarez might have done something wrong?
 
figadapaura said:
This only makes sense if the handball wasn't intentional. It's pretty obvious that it was.
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Intent isn't part of the rules of the game, and like it's been said, most fouls are intentional. They're used to control the pace of the game, kill counter attacks, stop goals, etc.
 
Mt Heart Attack said:
Why

For instance, nobody here in Italy was supporting Totti when he spat on Poulsen at Euro 2004 as far as I remember. I know I wasn't, everybody was angry at Totti for ruining the team's chances, certainly not at the UEFA committee who suspended him.

I mean, c'mon the president of Uruguay speaking in his defense. What an embarassment

Has anyone within the Uruguayan team even come close to suggesting that Suarez might have done something wrong?
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Not that I'm aware of. Salsa's post in this thread is the most you'll see as an acknowledgement (from an uruguayan) that Suárez committed (again) an imbecile act.
 
If even Chiellini is saying the ban is excessive there's not much debate here. The FIFA matches are fine, give him more even. that's a full Copa America and almost half of qualifiers.

The 4 months make no sense.
 
Mt Heart Attack said:
Why

For instance, nobody here in Italy was supporting Totti when he spat on Poulsen at Euro 2004 as far as I remember. I know I wasn't, everybody was angry at Totti for ruining the team's chances, certainly not at the UEFA committee who suspended him.

I mean, c'mon the president of Uruguay speaking in his defense. What an embarassment

Has anyone within the Uruguayan team even come close to suggesting that Suarez might have done something wrong?
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I don't remember where i heard it, but wasn't Poulsen really unpopular with Italian fans durings his time at Juventus? Not just Juve fans, but fans all over Italy. I seem to recall it was because of the Totti incident, but it might actually have been the Gattuso incident in the Champions League.
That whole story might actually just be the Danish press trying to explain why he failed in Italy, other than his limited abilties on the field.


On-topic: I don't know if FIFA could do this, but I would have liked a probation in his punishment. Bite another player within 2 years: Automatic 1 year suspension from football.
 
clemenx said:
If even Chiellini is saying the ban is excessive there's not much debate here. The FIFA matches are fine, give him more even. that's a full Copa America and almost half of qualifiers.

The 4 months make no sense.
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Yes it does. Why should he get to play football when he keeps biting people on the pitch?
 
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