Luis Suarez the football vampire has bitten another player [Update: BANNED]

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I think there's two different philosophies of rulebreaking in sport that are prevalent in this thread.

* The first regards rulebreaking as an explicit breach of the code of honour in sport, and feels that all actions in sport should be played out within the limitations defined by the rulebook.
* The second regards rulebreaking as a resource that can and should be strategically tapped in order to bring about victory.

While I would generally subscribe to the first view, I can see arguments in favour of the latter. Maybe it simply boils down to "playing to play" versus "playing to win"?

i think a lot of people are wedded to the second part because choosing when to break the rules adds to the strategy and depth of the game. if you're in a bad situation weighing up fouling and taking a yellow which limits you for the game vs the risk of conceding, for example. using cynical tackles to disrupt the flow of the game so your opponent finds it hard to create a good rhythm, but at the cost of maybe getting sent off. it becomes part of what makes the sport interesting to watch.

i think suarez's example is so controversial because the result of ghana missing the pen feels viscerally unfair in the same way that someone diving to win a penalty or a freekick is. basically the balance between the strategic elements has gone wrong, you aren't taking a fair risk in getting the reward (beeing booked for diving is rare, getting sent off is irrelevant in the last minute and missing the next match doesn't matter if you were going to be eliminated anyway)
 
By "every player in the same position" you mean "every player who doesn't deserve respect" right? Okay. You might have your opinion on what sports means, but please don't presume to speak like it is the only opinion in sports.

The worst part is that situation is not rare at all, and 99% of the time, in that scenario you see the player just jumping to try to deflect the ball with his head. All this "everyone would be doing the same" is BS elevated to an extreme level.

I guess a lot of people are so used at the concept of winning no matter what, that they just genuinely think it's totally ok to do it.
 
The worst part is that situation is not rare at all, and 99% of the time, in that scenario you see the player just jumping to try to deflect the ball with his head. All this "everyone would be doing the same" is BS elevated to an extreme level.

I guess a lot of people are so used at the concept of winning no matter what, that they just genuinely think it's totally ok to do it.

and how many of those situations are during the last minute of a knock-out game with the score even?
 
Even chellini ( the bitten player) said it was too harsh of a punishment.

People wanting the head of this player ( who last red card was from 2007 due to his heroic jump against Gana) are being the most irrational people in this thread.
 
I hope he uses all this free time now to get some play in FIFA 14 WC on PS3/360. About as close to winning the WC he'll come.
 
I'm seriously thinking it's a psychological tick or something.

It just doesn't makes sense.

It's like his frontal cortex--the long term decision making area of the brain--shuts off during these incidents.
 
It's not cheating. The laws of the game were thoroughly followed and enforced. Blame the game, not the player.

It is cheating. Suarez did not follow the rules. There is no law of the game that says 'block a goalbound ball with your hand in last minute of the game in exchange for a red card'. The rules say do not use your hands. He broke the rules and was caught. No different than if he tried to copy answers for an exam and was caught. I understand why he did it, just like I understand why a player might dive for penalty in the last minute of the game. However it is cheating
 
Anyway, now that I'm actually awake and have had a chance to read through this post.

And with that, my meandering rant is at an end.

Didn't want to quote the whole thing, but just some general replies to stuff in it.

The first thing is, I can appreciate where you're coming from, in that, as you said, you can say multiple points of view and ways of looking at both this situation, the handball situation, and Suarez as a player in general. That's fair enough. I certainly understand that someone's views of all of those things can be impacted by their personal views, preferences, opinions, etc.

To reply to one of the larger topics within your post - that of the fact that other fouls and penalties "fit the action" better and that a penalty kick in result of a player blocking a sure goal, I can agree with that, but on the other hand, that's not Suarez' fault. Everyone is operating under the same rules of the game, and have the same choices and decisions. In fact though, another Uruguay player was trying to do exactly the same thing on that ball - but he missed and failed at doing so. His intent was exactly the same though. And, if other players aren't making that decision in that position, they're negatively impacting their team. If one feels that shouldn't be the case, then the argument should be that FIFA should change their rules, not that the player was wrong in operating under the rules.

I know I keep bringing up other situations, but I feel that the above paragraph can stand on its own without any examples, so if one doesn't like the examples, it can be taken as is. But, when I see players at the end of Basketball games chasing each other around, not having any mind for the ball itself, but just trying to whack each other for the purpose of stopping the clock, it just looks comically absurd. And, even aside from end-game "strategy," it's even involved in occasional game "strategy," such as in the infamous "Hack-a-Shaq." And, fouling someone who is bad at free-throw shooting so he didn't score his dunk or layup or whatever, and instead has to try for foul shots, if anything seems worse to me than blocking a goal and making someone try for a penalty kick, considering the higher rate of success for penalty kicks, and the fact that the player is out of the game after one red card, as opposed to Basketball players getting multiple fouls to "work with."

Aside from that, I just think my main issue is with people taking such offense to something like that, while ignoring so many other things that are done in matches. It isn't a "Well, why worry about this when so many other bad things are done!" or "Everyone's a hypocrite!" thing or anything, but more just honestly wondering why people are fine with so many other things, or ignore so many other things, or are unaware of so many other things, while taking such offense to something like a handball. I mean, if that's one's view of the game, that doing something like that is so wrong, certainly I can't tell anyone else how to think. But, I would just think that setting the bar at something like that would be to where so many other things would be an issue, and many other things would be significantly worse, and wondering why those other things aren't really made a big deal out of.
 
Unfortunately, with all the diving in soccer, it's really hard to know if it was really a bite when it first happened. You know, boy who cried wolf syndrome and all.

Why does soccer allow so much diving? It's like an entire field of Cindy Crosbys. :)
 
Unfortunately, with all the diving in soccer, it's really hard to know if it was really a bite when it first happened. You know, boy who cried wolf syndrome and all.

Why does soccer allow so much diving? It's like an entire field of Cindy Crosbys. :)

I agree, diving (as a result from clean tackles and challenges) should be punished so it becomes much more of a risk. We will not stop it for a long time, if ever, but we can reduce it. I remember when a schwalbe in the box got you to see a red card from time to time.
 
These conspiracy theories are amazing. lol

"They clearly wanted to kick Suarez out of the World Cup. Uruguay is a small country that eliminated two big nations like Italy and England and it doesn't benefit Fifa to let Uruguay continue playing."

I've heard a few of them in the press.
 
and how many of those situations are during the last minute of a knock-out game with the score even?

Very few, of course. It doesn't change the fact that it is wrong and it shouldn't be celebrated by anyone.

The problem is several people here think is ok to do it, say that's pretty normal when it's not and the worst part, they celebrate it and treat the guy who does it, like a hero.
 
People wanting the head of this player ( who last red card was from 2007 due to his heroic jump against Gana) are being the most irrational people in this thread.
Shit, we got a low bar for heroism these days. I need to stop fighting Cobra Commander and get on the pitch.
 
I'm seriously thinking it's a psychological tick or something.

It just doesn't makes sense.

It's like his frontal cortex--the long term decision making area of the brain--shuts off during these incidents.

im not sure about the cortex thing, but essentially i agree with you. Stranger things happen to people than this, it would explain why it keeps happening... Only thing is, after reviewing these things at home, if it was ME, i'd seek help as quickly as possible as it would scare the shit out of me to do something like that without being able to control it...
 
Very few, of course. It doesn't change the fact that it is wrong and it shouldn't be celebrated by anyone.

The problem is several people here think is ok to do it, say that's pretty normal when it's not and the worst part, they celebrate it and treat the guy who does it, like a hero.

see, that's where you're simply wrong. in that situation, it is normal to do it. of course you don't have to like it, but that does not change the fact that there are only two types of players: those who will do it, and those who are not quick enough. even gyan, the guy who missed the resulting penalty, said he would have done the same. and frankly, i think anyone who says otherwise is lying.
 
I think that choosing to tactics ally break the rules is a legitimate consideration - are the punishments worth the benefits? - but part of that consideration is about decency and respect. If you're concerns end when the final whistle goes that's fine, but the fact that you may think the tactical benefits outweigh the drawbacks doesn't mean the drawbacks don't exist, and they include people thinking that you're scum.
 
see, that's where you're simply wrong. in that situation, it is normal to do it. of course you don't have to like it, but that does not change the fact that there are only two types of players: those who will do it, and those who are not quick enough. even gyan, the guy who missed the resulting penalty, said he would have done the same. and frankly, i think anyone who says otherwise is lying.

Sadly for you, that's not true at all, but keep believing everyone is a cheater and feel proud about it.
 
Sadly for you, that's not true at all, but keep believing everyone is a cheater and feel proud about it.

so you honestly believe that most football players would let their team be eliminated from the most prestigious tournament in the world even if they could prevent (or at least delay) it with a handball?
 
Even chellini ( the bitten player) said it was too harsh of a punishment.

People wanting the head of this player ( who last red card was from 2007 due to his heroic jump against Gana) are being the most irrational people in this thread.

Im out of here, Jesus.
 
Ghana was awarded a penalty to take and they blew it, end of story

this right here...

you could make a case for players that do this simply being opportunistic, they do what they do because they CAN and because it its a viable option to actually NOT LOSE right that moment!

Personally, i don't think it'd do it but i can't really fault those that do.
 
Ghana was awarded a penalty to take and they blew it, end of story
He stopped a guaranteed goal, and gave a penalty, which by all means is not guaranteed as Ghana found out.

If we split the goal into 3 parts, left, middle, right, then there is a 30% chance the keeper will dive the right way, the rest is down to the keeper and the penalty taker. Keeper can make a good dive and save, player can try to place it too much and miss, shit can go wrong.

But those are the rules, I also would have done what he done because you stop a 100% goal to give a penalty... even Balotelli missed eventually.
 
The worst part is that situation is not rare at all, and 99% of the time, in that scenario you see the player just jumping to try to deflect the ball with his head. All this "everyone would be doing the same" is BS elevated to an extreme level.

I guess a lot of people are so used at the concept of winning no matter what, that they just genuinely think it's totally ok to do it.

99% of the time the correct move (whether you're a "cheater" or not) is to let the other team score. The red card (and next game suspension) is usually not worth the small chance the other team won't score the penalty kick.

In a major tournament, in the last minutes, where that goal is the difference between passing through or going home, 99% of players would stop the ball with their hand. Even the guy that told the ref it wasn't a penalty. Inventing a penalty is not part of the game, but using your hands to save a goal most definitely is. And it's punished accordingly.

I find much more nefarious the conscious attempts some teams make to abuse the rules, with tactical fouls. Take a look at the Netherlands in this tournament for an example. The average more fouls that anyone else in the tournament (around 25 per game), but they do them right after they lose the ball, in the opponent's field, so they get almost no yellow cards. However they significantly mess with the flow of the other team and stop counterattacks before they can happen. That's much more than anything that Suarez has ever done, because it's not a spur of the moment decision, but a carefully constructed plan to take advantage of a loophole in the rules.

Still it's not the coach's fault FIFA is asleep at the wheel. They should be the ones looking how to prevent those strategies from being effective in the first place.
 
See, they could change the rules so that an automatic goal is awarded to the opposing team when this happens, but then we wouldn't have this fun discussion going now would we? So in the end, it's hard to say what's better... in terms of drama and suspense though, i think i'd rather have it stay the way it is ;)
 
I love all the people saying how Ghana got a penalty so him stopping the ball with his hand is O.K or some shit.

He stopped a 100% goal by cheating, that's the end of story. Irrelevant whether Ghana got a penalty or not.
 
With Suarez or without him, we (Colombia) have the players, the echnical element and the (tremendous) will to beat this match versus Uruguay. Lets hope, we can, the team the deserves it.
 
With Suarez or without him, we (Colombia) have the players, the echnical element and the (tremendous) will to beat this match versus Uruguay. Lets hope, we can, the team the deserves it.

james-rodriguez-goal-against-japan-c.gif
 
With Suarez or without him, we (Colombia) have the players, the echnical element and the (tremendous) will to beat this match versus Uruguay. Lets hope, we can, the team the deserves it.

sorry, but i stacked my fantasy team with colombian players after the transfer window opened. therefore you will lose.
 
Even chellini ( the bitten player) said it was too harsh of a punishment.

People wanting the head of this player ( who last red card was from 2007 due to his heroic jump against Gana) are being the most irrational people in this thread.
Yes, he said that because he's a nice guy. Not a fucking maniac with a delusional and irrational fanbase.
 
I'd definitely watch basketball if it had players biting eachother and occasionally kicking the ball away kung-fu style, with only the ref's eyes as jury and judge and executioner for penalties.

But in all seriousness, dude is crazy and should not be playing with such a disgusting behavior.
 
Tbf though, Scott Parker was an absolute beat-magnet whilst as Spurs. Two of those were against him, and I'm sure there was another that as missed out there.
 
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