Will discussion of certain games be banned on Neogaf from here on out?

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Steve Youngblood said:
In regards to the bolded, I feel like I need to clarify that there's not a blanket aversion to any and all "sexual stuff."
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Vire said:
I think there's a clear distinction between "sexual themes" and underage looking girls in sexual punishment mini games.

C'mon Neiteio.
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I agree there's a distinction. To be clear, I'm referring to the kind of sexual themes seen here -- violent sexual themes, in this case violating underage children.
 
Sakura said:
Should we just ban talk of everything that results in too much shitposting...?
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I've seen plenty of times when subjects get banned here because of shitposting. Isn't posting ******** numbers banned specifically because of the type of discussion it creates? Aren't numerous sites banned for the same reason?

With regard to banning individuals - I would say the vast majority of the board would likely act in repulsion to the thread. In which case, you have two choices - ban everybody, or ban the thread. I think the mods chose the latter.
 
Mechazawa said:
Isn't that what proper modding would avoid?

We've had threads before where a mod has made an ultimatum stating that if you want to talk about aspects of a game unrelated to gameplay, that people need to create a different thread or take their discussion to one that was already made.
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Proper moderation could be one thing.

The other thing is, it would be so much easier just to completely disallow discussion of the game. That decision would affect a small portion of users, and there's virtually nothing else that could hurt the community. People who are genuinely curious about the game and want a decent conversation with other people will have to look somewhere else, like, say GameFAQs. There are tons of other places to go to. The staff here probably don't want any trouble with those super fan-servicey games with controversial stuff like what Criminal Girls have.
 
I'm with the people who don't see why it would be outright BANNED if it's legally sold in United States retail. That being said the game looks weird and I'm not gonna get it.
 
A long time ago, I read that someone on GAF would even resort to gun violence should any of these gamers come anywhere near his daughter or something similar to this.
 
Goldmund said:
We still discuss Mortal Kombat games.
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I agree, it'd also be similar to closing a thread about Man Hunt. I personally don't think threads ought to be locked because members of the forums deem it "not a game" because of the context of the game. It's a bad precedent because the logic can easily be applied to quite a few games such as the two I listed.
 
To be clear, does this mean a ban on Bullet Girls is also enforced? If this game is knocked out of discussion, surely that one is also. It's a sad excuse of a war game.

El Sloth said:
The people who like the Criminal Girls game say there's something more there than just the borderline erotica stuff though, so there is that.
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That's just the game equivalent of "I read it for the articles" and "I watch it for the plot." The games that sexualize childish characters always seem to have great gameplay.
 
daegan said:
While no rule on NeoGAF can't change later, I do think that some guidance is in order on whether this is due to the game's content or the direction threads about it tend to go.
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Yeah, this is what I'm curious about. I give zero shits Criminal Girls or whatever, but if certain topics are just going to be outright verboten because they invariably result in shitty threads, it'd be nice to have some guidelines.
 
Zane said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but there's nothing especially lecherous or voyeuristic about the sexual content in those games right? A game like Fate/Stay Night may have nudity in it but it's an entirely different context. Criminal Girls is just base pornography
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Well there's a Saya no Uta OT, which has explicit sex scenes featuring what appears to be a child.

However, that represents a very small portion of it and is mostly a horror VN. A lot of the VN OTs here are like that in that the sex isn't the selling point.
 
L Thammy said:
They're using the other definition of free speech, obviously.
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Again, that comes with the territory on a moderated forum. Posts get deleted, threads get locked, users get banned. Some content is outright not allowed (porn, CliffyB tweets).
 
Sakura said:
These are the reasons why I think it is weird discussion is banned. This is a game, releasing in the west, on the Vita. That means the content in the game is not illegal, and that Sony is ok with it coming out. We aren't allowed to discuss a Vita game just because it is too risque?


Isn't that what moderation is for? Should we just ban talk of everything that results in too much shitposting...?
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If shitposting is banned, every thread that includes positive news about a current-gen console will be a graveyard. :P
 
I think we just need clarification on this subject in general. If everyone knows what the deal is, then there wouldn't be so much ambiguity.

As far as Criminal Girls go, I have no interest in the game at all, and I personally feel it crosses some lines I am not very comfortable with, but I think we need to know where GAF's line is.

There are other games (with adult characters) that I would like to be able to discuss on GAF, but have been hesitant because I don't want to rock the boat. We talk about them mainly in the VN thread, and those I speak with I know are capable of doing so in a mature manner, but there's always the risk of someone not knowing what is, and is not, suitable for the forum. But should the games in discussion be held responsible, or the posters that can't discern what is acceptable behavior?
 
I think blanket banning discussion of any game is bad. I think it would be best if the mods talked it out and figured if they think this really is the right move for the game and if they do think so, explained why they think so. I think people are rightfully concerned when discussion of games is being halted, and it's worth trying to outline where they think this game goes too far to deem it worthy of discussion.

Zane said:
murder isn't the primary attraction of violent games while fanservice and sexuality is absolutely what grabs your attention when it comes to an h-game
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I imagine that a large subset of people who bought games like Manhunt or who buy the Mortal Kombat games do so specifically to see the violent killings.
 
InfiniteNine said:
No one is properly moderating the topics anyways since the president has become to just thread shit on both sides. You can't post without people highlighting they're disgusted with it along the people who buy it, or the idiots highlighting problematic areas and reveling in it like pigs, and actual gameplay and information? It's a handful of posts because the thread is being shit all over. No one is actually doing any proper work in these threads and it shows.
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I agree. I honestly see no good reason, beside aforementioned mod work, that the same stance for MLP shouldn't be taken for this. You go into a MLP thread and shit on it you get banned.
 
The only questionable thing I read here is the existence of modbot itself.

By this I mean, each time I see modbot closing a thread most of the times it makes sense. Why do mods want to hide themselves behind some kind of alternate account? As long as the reasons are valid, there's no way people will judge a mod on this. Even if some are pissed about it, who gives a fuck? This is a moderated forum so mods and admins can do whatever feels needed to do and no one have jack shit to say about it. The freedom of speech argument is not valid.

I don't really know about the game which thread got closed, but it clearly seemed to not have a good future ahead, only by reading about the content.
 
Shizuka said:
If this is a trend, it'll be very hard in the future, since more and more companies are going after these games.
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This is my one reservation. I don't see a problem with banning discussion of games that amount to virtual child porn, but as the Japanese games industry moves more and more in this direction we might see this stuff infiltrate games with actual gameplay in the future, at which point things might get complicated.
 
Krejlooc said:
I've seen plenty of times when subjects get banned here because of shitposting. Isn't posting ******** numbers banned specifically because of the type of discussion it creates? Aren't numerous sites banned for the same reason?

With regard to banning individuals - I would say the vast majority of the board would likely act in repulsion to the thread. In which case, you have two choices - ban everybody, or ban the thread. I think the mods chose the latter.
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A "subject" is different than having a thread about a game on the gaming forum.
And assuming you are referring to that site, it's because the numbers on it are made up, so we don't need people bringing false information into discussions about sales numbers.
 
Seik said:
The only questionable thing I read here is the existence of modbot itself.

By this I mean, each time I see modbot closing a thread most of the times it makes sense. Why do mods want to hide themselves behind some kind of alternate account? As long as the reasons are valid, there's no way people will judge a mod on this. Even if some are pissed about it, who gives a fuck? This is a moderated forum so mods and admins can do whatever feels needed to do and no one have jack shit to say about it.

I don't really know about the game which thread got closed, but it clearly seemed to not have a good future ahead, only by reading about the content.
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Were you around during Amir0x's reign of terror? The decisions of a single mod are not always best for the forum.
 
Krejlooc said:
I've seen plenty of times when subjects get banned here because of shitposting. Isn't posting ******** numbers banned specifically because of the type of discussion it creates? Aren't numerous sites banned for the same reason?

With regard to banning individuals - I would say the vast majority of the board would likely act in repulsion to the thread. In which case, you have two choices - ban everybody, or ban the thread. I think the mods chose the latter.
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Or you know people could just not post if they don't have anything important or relevant to say.
 
Toski said:
I always thought Modbot is an account mods could use and simultaneously stay anonymous.
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I don't like that fact at all. What I like about GAF mods are the fact that they're a reasonable bunch who (more often than not) have good reasons for their actions. Modbot just takes that all away and creates an artificial gap between regular users and mods.

But I suppose mods get a shitload of annoying PM's about the thread locks despite explaining the reasons for locking them.
 
As lecherous as Criminal Girls is, I don't see the point of banning it.

There's no point denying that the game exists and Japan is going crank out a ton more so it wont end with just Criminal Girls.
 
Settin said:
Were you around during Amir0x's reign of terror? The decisions of a single mod are not always best for the forum.
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I wasn't here during that time, but I heard about it.

He got demodded though, so I don't see the problem, the punishment sounds adequate. It would actually be a problem if he stayed as a mod.
 
dakkumauji said:
Or you know people could just not post if they don't have anything important or relevant to say.
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This is a highly idealized view. That's like saying if everyone just behaved, we'd have no need for moderators. The need to consider the reality of the situation is important.

What you propose would never happen in a thread about that particular game.
 
L Thammy said:
Just for information's sake, note that there's actually a scale of how hentai is used in games. In some games, it's totally superfluous, and it's basically just used as a vehicle to sell a dramatic story. In those cases, game is often able to move to a more acceptable media form (such as a handheld game or an anime) and the hentai scenes are totally removed. In other games, it's very much the selling point, and there would basically be no game if not for hentai.
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This is an important point.

Is the violence or sexuality in the game to serve a purpose in terms of advancing the story or setting a particular tone/atmosphere? Or is it gratuitous and simply in the game to appeal to a certain demographic? I don't find Mortal Kombat particularly compelling because of this (even if it is so incredibly over the top and not meant to be taken seriously).

That's why I find it interesting that the poster criticized me for liking The Last of Us, I don't come to the game for the murder and gore, I came to it for the engrossing story in which the violence was used as a vehicle for exposition.

If Criminal Girls tried to seriously tackle themes like underage sexual child abuse, I'd have absolutely zero issue with it. But we all know that's not the reason it's in the game....
 
Brakke said:
But what is the danger. There are literally no stakes.
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The danger is that people will stop posting topics for fear of them simply being shut. How is anyone supposed to know what is or isn't allowed if decisions are made in an opaque manner seemingly based on personal distaste alone rather than clearly listed rules?

If threads turn to shit then fine, they should be closed, but I don't see how anonymously shutting down discussion of a game, on a forum all about discussing games, with no stated reason, is at all healthy for the board.
 
You guys realize the mods aren't going to define hard rules for you here, right? Specifically because you keep coming out with these insane calls of hypocrisy like "WHY DON'T WE BAN EVERY GTA THEN, HUH"

It's perfectly clear to them why Criminal Girls discussion is banned. No poster or account was banned just for posting about the game. If they start defining what is too lewd or reflects poorly on the board by being a topic of discussion, then they can't exercise discretion when something is skirting the line and discretion is important.
 
Zane said:
I play those games for an interesting open world with lots of missions and random nonsense to do, not to kill random hookers
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Come on...

Most of the missions in the GTA series has you either killing people, or setting up people to be killed.
 
I am 100% OK with banning discussion about games that involve player controlled sexual assault of clearly underage looking girls from this forum.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
You guys realize the mods aren't going to define hard rules for you here, right? Specifically because you keep coming out with these insane calls of hypocrisy like "WHY DON'T WE BAN EVERY GTA THEN, HUH"

It's perfectly clear to them why Criminal Girls discussion is banned. No poster or account was banned just for posting about the game. If they start defining what is too lewd or reflects poorly on the board by being a topic of discussion, then they can't exercise discretion when something is skirting the line and discretion is important.
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I agree!
 
Seems like an inappropriate use of Modbot. A proper reason really should be provided, if only to clarify the ToS, if indeed the contents of this game breaks them.
 
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