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[Crash Station]

not past chapter 4

Well yeah, but that's irrelevant to sexuality

 

[Ponn]

can we still talk about bravely default y/n

As long as you skip the later chapters to avoid repetitious arguments.

 

[Pikawil]

you could do that about any community on the internet. You could do it for neogaf. People probably have done it for neogaf.

Ah yes, that we reminds me, that video series reminds me that TV Tropes went through this exact same site policy topic as this here topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O60H4_QA8JI&index=131&list=PL65885E08173B69BB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ybl0USDwvY&index=133&list=PL65885E08173B69BB

 

[Seik]

Oh come on. It was a good joke.

It's because he still relates the damn pic to the show.

It's okay now though, it's more funny than anything to see people keep going with that statement.

 

[inm8num2]

Not sure if serious. Ad hominem is any attack unrelated to the point.

Ad hominem is a specific type of attack used to discredit a person. For example,

inm8num2: "I think games are fun."
other person: "You're an idiot."

That's not an ad hominem - it's just someone calling me an idiot.

inm8num2: "I think games are fun."
other person: "You are wrong because you have a donut for a head."

That's an ad hominem. The other person is trying to invalidate my opinion of games being fun by discrediting me based on my having a donut head.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

the entire point of tvtropes is to catalogue popular tropes found in media, so i don't know what you're trying to say here

TVTropes got so many complaints from Google that they had to basically create a panel to purge all the creepy loli-shit that plagued both the site and the forums. And many members reacted the same way people are reacting here, fearful of what would be exorcised and worrying that censorship would run out of control.

Basically a lot of Tropers really did believe in the "really 700 years old!" excuse.

 

[Shouta]

Ok. But the mod post I was quoting, saying that a consensus had been reached, just stated underage girl fanservice. Nothing about whether it was sexually charged or not (and obviously I'm sure they didn't mean homages or injokes). Which is why I was asking. A game like Senran Kagura Versus, you can have the girls wear bandaids over their nipples for example I believe. While you don't rub them down or anything I don't think, that is still underage fanservice as far as I understand. So is stuff like that NG too?

Simply having sexually charged content isn't the problem, Well, it is but from a slightly different angle and that's a different discussion. It's the uncomfortably young-looking cast component that's an issue as well. Senran is largely (pun intended?) older girls so there's not as much of an issue with it, at least from my perspective.

 

[docbon]

There's no moral ambiguity here.

Games that fetishize children being punished with tools in a sexual manner aren't welcome here.

Period.

End.

Stop.

You can dance along the lines of digital photography vs illustrative depiction all you like. It won't wash. So either make your peace with it or find a place that caters to that shit. Preferably as far from here as possible.

hmm yes but can you define pedophebobeepboophillia?

checkmate, atheists.

 

[Settin]

There's no moral ambiguity here.

Games that fetishize children being punished with tools in a sexual manner aren't welcome here.

Period.

End.

Stop.

You can dance along the lines of digital photography vs illustrative depiction all you like. It won't wash. So either make your peace with it or find a place that caters to that shit. Preferably as far from here as possible.

I can't take you seriously when your avatar makes me laugh so hard. But, ok. If the mods on GAF say no then I'll stop.

 

[Karsticles]

Would a moderator mind editing Steve Youngblood's explanation into the OP? I think it would cut down on a lot of the confusion still present in the thread.

Not sure if serious. Ad hominem is any attack unrelated to the point.

No, that's a straw man fallacy. An ad hominem only occurs in the particular situation when quality X about a person is used as a means to disprove an argument. Example:

P1: "Fracking is completely safe for the environment, as tests have shown."
P2: "Oh come on, P1 works for oil companies - are you really going to believe P1?"

This is attacking P1's qualities as a means to discredit the test results. Whether P1 is biased or not is unrelated to the validity of the tests being referenced.

 

[Wiktor]

Is there actually porn in that Criminal Girls game? If not then aren't people overeacting? Epecially considering what is getting translated to english from pc hentai games.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Bravely Default is kind of an interesting case, because, while Edea is young, she's like 16. Which is creepy but not Criminal Girls creepy.

That's a game where the artstyle (meant to evoke older games more than character ages) gives it an unintended spin despite the raunchy humor and actual rapist boss.

 

[Neiteio]

I imagine if you're already an outcast, you probably find solace among other outcasts. That's the sort of thing that's pretty universal and crosses cultural barriers. In this case, it might be all you know or care to know.

The way I kind of see it is is that the silent stigma isn't enough to shame anymore and, what with the internet, now individuals who indulge *know* there are other people out there like them so they can sort into 'us' and 'the other' (normals, etc) and act as if they're just fighting an unjust world that can't tolerate their freedom or something. Maybe?

Hmm, I think those are decent theories

 

[AlimNassor]

But, lolicons are not pedos. Pedos are attracted to pre-puberty girls. Real child porn is not made with consent, and is not ok because it hurts the kid. How are fake sketches harming kids? They aren't. But, comparing them to pedos, they have no sexual attraction to real kids, or even humans for that matter. Lolicons are disgusting people, and Lolicons harm nobody. But, so long as it's kept in the dark and they keep their disgusting fetishes to themselves and never leave the depths of the internet.

before anyone waves the banhammer, I hate lolicons, it's disgusting shit.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Bravely Default is kind of an interesting case, because, while Edea is young, she's like 16. Which is creepy but not Criminal Girls creepy.

That's a game where the artstyle (meant to evoke older games more than character ages) gives it an unintended spin despite the raunchy humor and actual rapist boss.

Edea is 15 in JP and 18 in the localized version so no one would cry about it.

 

[freenudemacusers]

can moderation construct a table on the allowable degree of sexualization vs apparent age of cast? is hotlinking ok? can we post jpgs and not gifs? mosaic filters over controversial portions of an image?

i just want to stay within these new guidelines.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Bravely Default is kind of an interesting case, because, while Edea is young, she's like 16. Which is creepy but not Criminal Girls creepy.

That's a game where the artstyle (meant to evoke older games more than character ages) gives it an unintended spin despite the raunchy humor and actual rapist boss.

I kind of read your post as being 16 is creepy, and I need a bit more clarification on this bit.

 

[Brakke]

I can't take you seriously when your avatar makes me laugh so hard. But, ok. If the mods on GAF say no then I'll stop.

Insulting you for your argument is different than insulting your argument for you.

 

[Krejlooc]

Is there actually porn in that Criminal Girls game? If not then aren't people overeacting? Epecially considering what is getting translated to english from pc hentai games.

Someone linked a trailer earlier in this thread. The defenders of it used such stunning arguments as "you can barely see her labia" and "there's no penetration" to justify that, no, this 8 year old girl spread eagle clawing at her crotch through her panties while hot wax is being poured on her genitals was not pornography.

So, like, I guess it depends on your definition of pornography. It's definitely overtly sexual, however.

 

[benjipwns]

Would a moderator mind editing Steve Youngblood's explanation into the OP? I think it would cut down on a lot of the confusion still present in the thread.

I don't, it doesn't even have any sources.

 

[Settin]

Insulting you for your argument is different than insulting your argument for you.

Wat. I was commenting on how Bish's avatar makes me laugh after all the banned GIFs.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I kind of read your post as being 16 is creepy, and I need a bit more clarification on this bit.

In that Edea dresses up in sexy outfits and Ringabel talks about banging her a lot, yeah, sort of creepy.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Ah yes, that we reminds me, that video series reminds me that TV Tropes went through this exact same site policy topic as this here topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O60H4_QA8JI&index=131&list=PL65885E08173B69BB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ybl0USDwvY&index=133&list=PL65885E08173B69BB

The most hillarious thing about that from what I recall was the people who jumped to the conclusion that Lolita would be banned.

 

[Armaros]

Is there actually porn in that Criminal Girls game? If not then aren't people overeacting? Epecially considering what is getting translated to english from pc hentai games.

If your argument is "is there actually any explict porn", as a defense for if something should be banned or not on this forum, then you need to sit down and think about what is this forum suppose to be about.

 

[chickdigger802]

Did things ever get weird with nanako in persona 4?

honestly can't remember.

 

[kyser73]

Would a moderator mind editing Steve Youngblood's explanation into the OP? I think it would cut down on a lot of the confusion still present in the thread.

That assumes that everyone reads the OP.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

I always thought Modbot is an account mods could use and simultaneously stay anonymous.

It's the other way around.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I imagine if you're already an outcast, you probably find solace among other outcasts. That's the sort of thing that's pretty universal and crosses cultural barriers. In this case, it might be all you know or care to know.

There is also a market supporting it and a counter cultural stuff. And you will notice, if you follow Japanese politics, that there is a societal double discourse that had intensified the dissonance.

 

[Ragingnight]

Did things ever get weird with nanako in persona 4?

honestly can't remember.

the only thing is the innocent remark of marrying big bro. Literally nothing unless you want to make it an issue.

 

[Wiktor]

Someone linked a trailer earlier in this thread. The defenders of it used such stunning arguments as "you can barely see her labia" and "there's no penetration" to justify that, no, this 8 year old girl spread eagle clawing at her crotch through her panties while hot wax is being poured on her genitals was not pornography.

So, like, I guess it depends on your definition of pornography. It's definitely overtly sexual, however.

Interesting that they managed to release it on consoles then. Seeing how everything from visual novel genre needs to be heavily censored when ported there.

That said, I'm generally against censorship, especially since it can lead to ridiculous situations where devs are so PC that they even censor out regular kisses.

With this criminal girls game I don't really get what's the point in censorship anyway. The audience for this type of things is very specific, I can't see how anyone who's not in it would suddenly gain interest just because he can't hear the girls moan.

 

[benjipwns]

can moderation construct a table on the allowable degree of sexualization vs apparent age of cast? is hotlinking ok? can we post jpgs and not gifs? mosaic filters over controversial portions of an image?

i just want to stay within these new guidelines.

When you say "apparent age" do you mean canon age or appearance age?

I think the chart should probably include both.

 

[Devolution]

If they DID become a pedophile later I would like to see someone look at the rest of their environment. Pedophilia has been around for a lonnnnnng time. I can honestly say I don't see a game like Criminal Girls single-handidly creating Pedophiles. And if you go down that road then you are opening up debate that politicians have a point about violent games creating these mass shooters. And like I said, I would also like to see someone actually try to do some research and see if these type of outlets help to curb tendencies.

i remember reading an article about relapse rate and how its treated like a sexual orientation and the treatments are mainly just to curb the tendency to act upon the impulses, not to cure people. If thats the case, and its not something that can be cured, and people aren't willing to lock pedophiles up and throw away the key then it might be prudent to look at alternatives.

Who cares if pedophilia has been around for a long time? That's irrelevant. Childhood exposure to sexual acts/depicted sexual acts is known to influence their behavior as adults. This is why I get quite annoyed with threads like this even as someone who enjoys porn. It's like people love to be willfully ignorant of the possible exposure to minors and its detrimental effects.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Did things ever get weird with nanako in persona 4?

honestly can't remember.

There was that stupid obligatory Hot Springs Scene, but that was more embarrassing for Naoto.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I've read that a minority of pedophiles commit sexual acts against real children.

So the existence of this kind of material isn't going to do much to deter them.

Those peeps are already too far gone by that point. I'm mainly focusing on those that aren't completely lost. Intense deviant sexual desires need an outlet. Some way that doesn't harm another living creature.

I'd rather they jack it to a 1000 year old dragon or a crude depiction of a goat than go out and harm another living creature. It has nothing to do with feeling empathy for them and everything with trying to keep their demons in check. If that means drawn images? Ok. If that means therapy? Good for them.

Because if you harm a child you are nothing. You don't help humanity and you honestly have no purpose existing. Some pedophiles don't think they hurt children. Speaking as a victim of "love" you do. Every. Single. Time. Without question.

And yet instead of hate I feel pity. I've started to veer into soul-searching and truth telling territory so I'll wrap it up. As long as no one is being hurt, abused, or damaged by it I can't come down on the side of ban. It's disgusting material. That much I know for certain.

edit: And again that has nothing to do with discussion here. That's up to the moderation. Always has been.

 

[Krejlooc]

Interesting that they managed to release it on consoles then. Seeing how everything from visual novel genre needs to be heavily censored when ported there.

That said, I'm generally against censorship, especially since it can lead to ridiculous situations where devs are so PC that they even censor out regular kisses.

Right, first they come for the 8 year old labia, and nobody spoke up. Then they came for the kissing, and nobody spoke up. Finally, when they came for me, there was nobody left to speak for me :*(

 

[desmax]

Did things ever get weird with nanako in persona 4?

honestly can't remember.

Not really. But things could get weird with a certain Social Link if you invite her for christmas

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

In that Edea dresses up in sexy outfits and Ringabel talks about banging her a lot, yeah, sort of creepy.

Oh right. Was asking because the way your sentence was formated was like "wait what?"

 

[213372bu]

I think you missed my entire point, but whatever, I really doubt you want to discuss it as you keep making snarky accusations.

I'm the first person to think GAF as a conglomerate are some of the friendliest and like-minded people on here. I'm not here to make snarky accusations. I literally, and non-sarcastically because the internet is weird like that, didn't know what you said and made a disclaimer, because I didn't want to claim you did vertain things. I still don't know you're stance, so please clarify.

In some States. Not mention that comic book artists and writers (US citizens that are probably more disconnected from Japanese pop culture and fetishes) has defended people that were in prison because doujinshi stuff (and only having that against them).

Doujin just means like fan-manga right? We're talking sexually punishing drawn little girls while you are complimented on how well of a job you've done in sexually molesting them.

Did you see my post on the last page?

Again, don't take my posts the wrong way or as sarcastic or mean-willed, as apparently that's how they come across in topics where I'm disgusted in, eevn when asking genuine things. The reason it was this specific was because I was responding to that particular quote.

Your argument seems to be more geared toward the individual than the greater societal effect as a whole. It's an interesting discussion, but outlets definitely have their place whether it be for aggression or arousal.

But it's not an outlet though. The person is not using it as a catharsis in the traditional sense. This game, and games alike, are creating a market in which those who like sexually abusing kids are finding a way to seek those pleasures without tripping off something that is illegal specifically world-wide. People defeating an enemy in a game to take of stress != people giving in to their sexually desires by consuming material in which underage girls are sexually abused, animated or not.

That being said, I do think therapy for pedophiles should be a lot more widely available than it is. Some psychiatrists are obligated to inform people that really shouldn't be informed if one were to "come out".

And in most places, you can get that for absolutely free, (via government or organizations worldwide). I'm not really sure what that last sentence means.

That being said again, comparing this to real world pedophiles may not be the best way to pin someone down. There are arguments and studies that seem to suggest it's an extension of pictophilia as well as pedophilia, but not necessarily both. Basically, not all loli/shotacons are pedophiles.

I don't know what a shotacon is, and since lolis are literally just animated versions of underage-girls/underage-looking-girls, I can't see how there isn't a connection. Once again, using lolis as 'material' can be seen as illegal in some areas (ie. my area), and one should get help if they want to stop those urges.

Anyone who thinks sexual abuse of children is A-OK drawn or real is nothing to me. If you have an honest problem, go seek help, it's widely available, and I'll support anyone who goes and does that. If one thinks instead that using this material to get off to one's pedophilic desires is something that is your choice and is better than therapy, I think that person is disgusting.

 

[Jintor]

Did things ever get weird with nanako in persona 4?

honestly can't remember.

Absolutely not.

 

[Brakke]

Wat. I was commenting on how Bish's avatar makes me laugh after all the banned GIFs.

I know but you're still wrong about "ad hominem" and you're wrong to think that an argument deserves intellectual rigor just because you've advanced it.

 

[Crayons]

Who cares if pedophilia has been around for a long time? That's irrelevant. Childhood exposure to sexual acts/depicted sexual acts is known to influence their behavior as adults. This is why I get quite annoyed with threads like this even as someone who enjoys porn. It's like people love to be willfully ignorant of the possible exposure to minors and its detrimental effects.

That's why the game is rated M and cannot be sold to minors?

 

[ActuallyHulk]

Did things ever get weird with nanako in persona 4?

honestly can't remember.

She was in the P4G hot springs cinematic but she kind of just sat there while the other girls were being fanservicey, at least if I remember right.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Someone linked a trailer earlier in this thread. The defenders of it used such stunning arguments as "you can barely see her labia" and "there's no penetration" to justify that, no, this 8 year old girl spread eagle clawing at her crotch through her panties while hot wax is being poured on her genitals was not pornography.

So, like, I guess it depends on your definition of pornography. It's definitely overtly sexual, however.

well if she agreed to the punishment i don't see the big deal tbh

 

[Vamphuntr]

In that Edea dresses up in sexy outfits and Ringabel talks about banging her a lot, yeah, sort of creepy.

The old sage that makes dresses is also very creepy. The red mage was another one too. I wonder if they toned it down a notch during the localization process.

 

[The Technomancer]

can we still talk about bravely default y/n

Can we talk about how utterly tasteless the Agnes bikini DLC is and how it undermines the character and betrays a lack of respect for their own work? Ooh yes please lets

 

[L Thammy]

can moderation construct a table on the allowable degree of sexualization vs apparent age of cast? is hotlinking ok? can we post jpgs and not gifs? mosaic filters over controversial portions of an image?

i just want to stay within these new guidelines.

I think if the characters are younger than fifteen or sixteen or so, and you can reasonably assume that more than two or three people will be using whatever you're posting as spank material, then you probably shouldn't be posting it.

well if she agreed to the punishment i don't see the big deal tbh

By "she" you mean the writers that made the game and not the character, right?

 

[Seik]

That's why the game is rated M and cannot be sold to minors?

The problem isn't the distribution to minors. It's the encouragements toward bad behaviors that it represents.

It could even be a decent RPG without all the rubbing/spanking and weird stuff. People enjoying these very specific things need to get their head checked.

 

[Toxi]

Much of this would be solved if the mods were willing to warn/ban individuals under the "No drive by into threads and calling their games/players trash" rules.

Still, to the best of my knowledge this just doesn't happen for some reason. It worries me that anime games don't enjoy "Equal protection under Neogaf Law"

Do most anime games involve sexually abusing kids?

 

[Glittering Crux]

Did things ever get weird with nanako in persona 4?

honestly can't remember.

Spoiler

Dojima gives you permission to marry her when she's older.

~

I don't understand why discussion of the game should be banned if Sony is fine with it being released in the west. People who find the content questionable can just not post in the topics. I don't want to play Criminal Girls at all because the gameplay is pretty generic and I'm tired of these Vita RPGs having no battle animations but I don't want discussion to be banned.

The real problem here is that people go into these topics, call everyone a pedophile, and then leave. I think that's what needs to be banned. It doesn't even need to be a permanent one. It makes it really difficult to have discussions about niche games on GAF. If GAF is only supposed to be a place for discussing mainstream gaming that is OK. I'd just like it to be clear.

 

[Ragingnight]

The old sage that makes dresses is also very creepy. The red mage was another one too. I wonder if they toned it down a notch during the localization process.

don't think the red mage was anything sexual. It was more than he was literally drugging them up and taking their power/status. IIRC.

Old Sage was the only real issue. Ringabel and Edea were fine considering they were around the same age.

Do most anime games involve sexually abusing kids?

no but you would be surprise at the amount of users that drive-by post and imply that.

Heard it in
1) Persona 4
2) Persona 4 Arena
3) Blazblue
4) Street Fighter
5) Soul Calibur

and plenty of others.