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[ab.aeterno]

The notion of societal-conditioning has been repeated several times on this thread, and with each post, it sounds more and more patronizing of other posters.

EDIT: "it's understandable you think that way, you've been conditioned to think that way, it doesn't make you bad, but it makes you ignorant, but it's OK, we won't judge"

Well, are you then arguing there is no such thing as heteronormativity, or that society, media, and upbringing has no effect on the perception of something? Because I find the notion that media historically only ever almost exclusively displaying heterosexuality having no effect on keeping homosexuality from being perceived add normal a very difficult notion to accept without any evidence that's the case. If society didn't have any conditioning effect on how homosexuals are perceived then what would account for the continued struggles for acceptance? I find that notion patronizing given what I've dealt with personally.

 

[Cagey]

I find it hard to believe a person can treat people as equals while being repulsed by their sexuality

If one thinks their parents getting nasty is, indeed, nasty, you find it hard to believe they can treat those parents as equals?

Well, are you then arguing there is no such thing as hetero not nativity, or that society, media, and upbringing has no effect on the perception of something? Because I find the notion that media historically only ever almost exclusively displaying heterosexuality having no effect on keeping homosexuality from being perceived add normal a very difficult notion to accept without any evidence that's the case. If society didn't have any conditioning effect on how homosexuals are perceived then what would account for the continued struggles for acceptance?

I don't deny its existence. I think the impact of such phenomenon has been overstated here, on this particular issue, for myriad reasons.

 

[ZealousD]

I'd actually like fo few more opinions on this, as it would certainly destroy my theory, that the repulsive reactions to gay sex are purely socially pressured homophobia.

Honestly I think its the other way around. The repulsion bred the homophobia.

I find it gross when old people are intimidate.
I find it gross when ugly/fat people are intimate.
I find it gross when my parents are intimate.

It's like that.

 

[Booty Patrol]

So what if he finds it repulsive? Isn't that up to him? As long as he still treats people with respect and doesn't discriminate, isn't it irrelevant what he thinks?

This sounds a whole lot like the 'I don't agree with it, but I still accept you' line thrown at LGBT people.

 

[APF]

If one thinks their parents getting nasty is, indeed, nasty, you find it hard to believe they can treat those parents as equals?

Few people treat their parents as equals.

 

[blame space]

i really wish all these gay guys would quit having sex with each other, it grosses me out! I'm trying to not think about gay sex here!

 

[Snuggles]

Any sex that I wouldn't want to join in on is repulsive.

 

[Kater]

So what if he finds it repulsive? Isn't that up to him? As long as he still treats people with respect and doesn't discriminate, isn't it irrelevant what he thinks?

Well, he asked people if it makes him prejudiced to think less of the sexual act between the same gender than the one between two different sexes. And my answer is that yes, that makes him kind of prejudiced.

 

[faceless007]

I don't deny its existence. I think the impact of such phenomenon has been overstated here, on this particular issue, for myriad reasons.

What's your alternate explanation?

 

[GeordieMark]

This sounds a whole lot like the 'I don't agree with it, but I still accept you' line thrown at LGBT people.

Well, I wouldn't agree with going around telling people that, because it's disrespectful. But is it realistic to expect everyone to approve of everything?

 

[Red Liquorice]

Plenty of gay men say "ewwwww vagina!" so it goes both ways.

I think it's pretty pathetic and juvenile either way.

 

[ab.aeterno]

I don't deny its existence. I think the impact of such phenomenon has been overstated here, on this particular issue, for myriad reasons.

On what grounds do you think it's been overstated? How do you quantify it's impact, and how do you argue it's stated impact here is more than that? You're arguing abstract concepts as quantifiable absolutes, and I'm not sure how or why. Just as it is, I imagine, difficult to quantify the damage done by systemic racism or sexism, it seems hard to quantify the impact of heteronormativity -- particularly without any other explanation for the still-existent homophobia in society at large.

 

[Karkador]

Well, I wouldn't agree with going around telling people that, because it's disrespectful. But is it realistic to expect everyone to approve of everything?

I'd think that maybe not comparing human sexuality to "being asked to eat shit" is the least people can do

 

[hawkshockey11]

If one thinks their parents getting nasty is, indeed, nasty, you find it hard to believe they can treat those parents as equals?

I think that's very different. You aren't repulsed by all men and a woman having sex, just your parents. And there is a reason -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

 

[GeordieMark]

I'd think that maybe not comparing human sexuality to "being asked to eat shit" is the least people can do

I have no idea what you are talking about?

 

[Nemesis_]

I'm not even gay but if you use the word "repulsive" it comes across as hateful and to me indicates some form of prejudice.

Bestiality and necrophilia are repulsive. Not sex between two consenting gay adults.

 

[BobLoblaw]

I never even thought about gay sex. For me, it was just the way some gay guys acted around me (really feminine) and how they'd hit on me. I grew out of that stupid stuff after college and now I don't give a shit. Even have a couple of gay co-workers I consider friends.

 

[Son Of D]

I have no idea what you are talking about?

Referring to this post.

If someone asked me to watch two men, I'd make the same face as if someone were trying to serve me human shit.

 

[Karkador]

I have no idea what you are talking about?

Someone in this thread made that comparison.

I mean, I think more than a handful of people are excusing themselves for saying some dehumanizing things as just having an opinion/natural predisposition

 

[Booty Patrol]

But is it realistic to expect everyone to approve of everything?

No, but it doesn't make it any less disrespectful as you put it.

 

[besada]

While I find it strange that people are repulsed or grossed out by something no one is going to force them to do or watch, I don't think it necessarily makes them bigots. Certainly there are plenty of bigots who also share this repulsion, but I think one can be an ally and still be grossed out by particular sex acts.

That said, it doesn't repulse or freak me out at all. It's just two humans pleasuring each other. So long as it's consensual, I don't personally understand the repulsion.

 

[sechsterangriff]

Bestiality and necrophilia are repulsive. Not sex between two consenting gay adults.

Dude, people generally don't have to reach that far to find sexual behaviors they may find repulsive.
For some people, it may well be just about any sexual behavior they aren't willing to partake in. For others it may about be the physiognomy, the relation to those involved, etc

 

[Yaboosh]

Being grossed out by two men kissing is not a great sign.

 

[Kater]

I'm not even gay but if you use the word "repulsive" it comes across as hateful and to me indicates some form of prejudice.

Bestiality and necrophilia are repulsive. Not sex between two consenting gay adults.

Thank you for that post. Yes, the wording is what I find the most worrisome about some peoples posts in here.

 

[pants]

Well I wont be watching gay porn ever in my life, but I dont feel thats necessarily a problem

 

[Deified Data]

No. You could find sex with just about anyone repulsive. So long as that aversion doesn't color your opinion of gays as people, I think you're alright.

 

[Cagey]

On what grounds do you think it's been overstated? How do you quantify it's impact, and how do you argue it's stared impact here is more than that? You're arguing abstract concepts as quantifiable absolutes, and I'm not sure how or why. Just as it is, I imagine, difficult to quantify the damage done by systemic racism or sexism, it seems hard to quantify the impact of hetero norm at city -- particularly without any other explanation for the still-existent homophobia in society at large.

On what grounds do I believe it's overstated here on this thread? The insistence from several posters that it's a highly important, or primary, or sole factor (depending on the poster who wrote their version of the argument, the level of theoretical impact varied) in other posters having a dislike for a sexual act. If I disagree with the emphasis placed on such factors, I would think the emphasis is too much, thus overstated.

To be perfectly honest, my argumentation on this thread has been motivated by how portions of this thread read like a sociology major's senior thesis in search of an applicable problem. Given that, I think it's best if I disengage, as that isn't going to be a productive discussion for the thread.

 

[ivysaur12]

I never really understood how two men or two women kissing could cause revulsion, but it's certainly a reaction when LGBT characters kiss on film and television.

I don't know what the answer is besides get over it?

 

[impetuous_silly]

Honestly I think its the other way around. The repulsion bred the homophobia.

I find it gross when old people are intimidate.
I find it gross when ugly/fat people are intimate.
I find it gross when my parents are intimate.

It's like that.

It sounds like you have a problem with intimacy.

 

[Red Chocobo]

I know gay guys who openly claim that sex with women is gross.

Is it prejudice when it's that way around?

 

[Dunlop]

I don't think it does.

I find the act of eating sushi or drinking coffee revolting but it has no bearing on the people I know that do not.

What is the difference with that, than someone's sexual preference?

 

[besada]

I find the way that people express their lack of desire to view gay sexual activity to be much worse than their feelings. There may be very little you can do about how you feel, but you are in control of how you speak and write, and the question is answerable without being a dick about it.

 

[Yaboosh]

I know gay guys who openly claim that sex with women is gross.

Is it prejudice when it's that way around?

Maybe not, but it can be considered rude to say so in front of people whose preference that is.

 

[DR2K]

really? I'd be very surprised if that was true.
not interested, sure
but finding it repulsive and gross? the same way many straight men think about gay sex?
I'd be very, very surprised.

Be surprised. Vaginas are not something some gay men usually find appealing in the slightest.

 

[APF]

I know gay guys who openly claim that sex with women is gross.

Is it prejudice when it's that way around?

It's literally prejudice if they haven't tried it. However in this case it's also an actual act that's different, not just the participants, so there is a clear difference between that and eg a dude who enjoys the act of kissing but is repulsed if two men do it.

 

[ab.aeterno]

To be perfectly honest, my argumentation on this thread has been motivated by how portions of this thread read like a sociology major's senior thesis in search of an applicable problem. Given that, I think it's best if I disengage, as that isn't going to be a productive discussion for the thread.

Fair enough. It could make for interesting conversation fodder if you were to ever start a thread on it.

 

[CornBurrito]

Honestly I am not convinced that being repulsed by gay sex is indicative of active hate. However, I don't buy the notion that it is a natural feeling. I think that in large part, what we find attractive/repulsive is influenced by culture. The easiest way to see that is with food. Surely something such as what we find tasty must be purely biological right? Well it clearly isn't. Americans aren't born with a genetic predisposition to find things like duck necks, bull testicles, cow heart, etc... disgusting. We aren't genetically predisposed to find those eggs with the dead chicken in them disgusting. We find those foods disgusting because we simply aren't exposed to them often in our culture.

I think that finding two gay men kissing "gross" is likely only repulsive to many because our culture is in many ways still homophobic. Straight men can be accepting of gays, but can't actually show acceptance of gay acts because then they might be seen as gay. So the simple way to show you aren't gay and don't want to participate in gay acts is going "ewww gross." That doesn't make the person saying that actively homophobic, but the act is definitely rooted in more subtle homophobia.

The good news is that it actually can be changed. I'm going to guess that people exposed to gay public displays of affection eventually become desensitized to it and no longer find it gross. Nudist communities aren't made up entirely of smoking hot nude people. There are people we would find "gross" naked, but other nudists don't see it as gross because they are so frequently exposed to it.

 

[encephalon]

"Repulsive" is a strong word. And yeah, if you have trouble seeing two gay men kissing, that's extreme and it's actually something you should probably work on. But it's also not surprising. There have been claims in here that "yeah gays are repulsed by heterosexual intercourse too" but they ring a little hollow. Straight sexuality is everywhere and everyone is inundated with it by an early age. I may not really be into vagina (and it's enough to shut it down), but I've been more or less desensitized to straight sex.

Meanwhile, this might seem surprising, but at a younger age I may have had a slight "stomach churning" reaction to two men kissing (I am pretty sure this did happen, I just can't remember the circumstances). Not because of the kissing itself, but because of the societal implications and growing up in a religious right home. Maybe in the same sense that I have a really hard time watching "cringe" humor, because my empathy is so strong for the fictional characters I'm supposed to be laughing at. I don't know. But maybe society's rules can also have an influence on aversion.

Emotions can be complicated. The fact that you feel them alone does not necessarily validate them, however. I don't think it's a problem to be grossed out by gay sex, at least to some degree. But I wouldn't, for example, say "vaginas are gross" around a girl because I think that would be extremely rude.

 

[Future]

While I find it strange that people are repulsed or grossed out by something no one is going to force them to do or watch, I don't think it necessarily makes them bigots. Certainly there are plenty of bigots who also share this repulsion, but I think one can be an ally and still be grossed out by particular sex acts.

That said, it doesn't repulse or freak me out at all. It's just two humans pleasuring each other. So long as it's consensual, I don't personally understand the repulsion.

Even without watching, I think its reasonable that the thought of something drives repulsion. The thought of a brother and sister going to town may repulse people even if they aren't part of the family. Homosexuality can cause the same emotions, as I imagine heterosexuality would for others.

Being repulsed by something and being prejudiced against it are two different things though. The repulsion might be a source of prejudice for some, but not all

 

[CornBurrito]

Even without watching, I think its reasonable that the thought of something drives repulsion. The thought of a brother and sister going to town may repulse people even if they aren't part of the family. Homosexuality can cause the same emotions, as I imagine heterosexuality would for others.

Being repulsed by something and being prejudiced against it are two different things though. The repulsion might be a source of prejudice for some, but not all

I understand what you are trying to say but I don't think comparing homosexuality to incest (or bestiality as some have done) is really the most tactful way to make your point.

But this brings up something I want to make a point with. I think that even our reactions to pedophilia/bestiality are learned rather than completely innate. We have examples of cultures where pedophilia was common (pederasty in Greek/Roman society) and some cultures where fucking animals isn't seen as super super gross. That's not to say that pedophilia and bestiality are morally correct or that we should get over our disgust of them. But simply that revulsion towards homosexuality isn't some inherent trait that straight men cannot help. It is cultural and learned behavior.

 

[Izuna]

Eh this thread is weird.
I don't understand this thread at all.

People don't fucking choose to be repulsed by something. As people we know what we like and what we don't like. This thread is making it sound like sexuality is nurtured, instead of being a case of case. Unless you claim it is both, in which case non-bisuxuals are far less open-minded.

No, I am repulsed by the thought of seeing others or being involved. I will cringe when I see a particular scene in House of Cards, same way my partner cringes when she sees a particular scene in Orange is the New Black. Are we both then ignorant and homophobic? No, the term homophobic has been used as if it is similar to being racist. Otherwise if it simply means "I don't like gay stuff" then surely straight people are all homophoic right? We cringe at these scenes, but that doesn't make us "ignorant". Racists are ignorant because most of time, them being scared or react a certain way to other races is irrational or not true.

It is predujice for crossing to the other side of the road as a black person because is behind. It ain't predujice for not wanting to live somewhere being one can hear gay sex through the wall where hearing straight sex is okay.

 

[sechsterangriff]

Eh this thread is weird.
I don't understand this thread at all. outta here

 

[Valhelm]

These food comparisons have got to fucking stop. It is not remotely similar.

It's exactly the same thing. Caramel is gross but I don't think my friend is gross for loving caramel candy.

 

[daemonic]

I'm not at all attracted to the female body (though I can appreciate its beauty in art), so naturally the idea of straight sex/porn is an uncomfortable and undesirable image. That said, I don't consider it prejudice.

 

[APF]

It's exactly the same thing. Caramel is gross but I don't think my friend is gross for loving caramel candy.

Have you tried caramel?

 

[kamorra]

Have you tried caramel?

What's your point when it comes to sex? Food examples are weird.

 

[kame-sennin]

The notion of societal-conditioning has been repeated several times on this thread, and with each post, it sounds more and more patronizing of other posters.

EDIT: "it's understandable you think that way, you've been conditioned to think that way, it doesn't make you bad, but it makes you ignorant, but it's OK, we won't judge"

Is there an argument somewhere in this post?

This is laughable. Me being repulsed by two guys having sex is in no way "ignorant" "silly" or "homophobic."

Having a phobic reaction to something doesn't reflect a phobia of said thing?

 

[CoryCubed]

My only real struggle is with Anal, and it actually goes for male and female whether it be a penis, toy, or whatever. At least with my bums, and I'm sure a lot of other bums out there, they can be really hard to get clean without a moist wipe or bidet. Personally I can go through half a roll of tp and still be getting marks. So unless you both just came out of the shower, that just doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Ultrabum]

My only real struggle is with Anal, and it actually goes for male and female whether it be a penis, toy, or whatever. At least with my bums, and I'm sure a lot of other bums out there, they can be really hard to get clean without a moist wipe or bidet. Personally I can go through half a roll of tp and still be getting marks. So unless you both just came out of the shower, that just doesn't appeal to me.

As the ultrabum, I prefer to not be penetrated by toy or male penis.

However, I have no problem keeping myself clean.

 

[CornBurrito]

It's exactly the same thing. Caramel is gross but I don't think my friend is gross for loving caramel candy.

Presumably you've tried caramel before. I don't think most of the people calling gay sex gross have tried it. That's the main difference.

The notion of societal-conditioning has been repeated several times on this thread, and with each post, it sounds more and more patronizing of other posters.

EDIT: "it's understandable you think that way, you've been conditioned to think that way, it doesn't make you bad, but it makes you ignorant, but it's OK, we won't judge"

Pointing out that humans are socially influenced isn't patronizing and your logical fallacy does nothing to dispute the truth that humans are social creatures and are influenced by others. We know of several things people find gross (nudity, bestiality, pedophilia, certain foods) that are culturally influenced because there are cultures where those things aren't seen as gross.

Sorry but I see no evidence that people are innately born to see two men kissing as gross. There's significantly more evidence supporting the societal-conditioning notion.