I agree with this post.
But for the few mentions of being repulsed by two guys kissing: that's some deep issues, and if you're repulsed by that you are very prejudiced.
Does finding the act of gay sex repulsive, make you prejudiced?
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I agree with this post.
But for the few mentions of being repulsed by two guys kissing: that's some deep issues, and if you're repulsed by that you are very prejudiced.
That's a diet issue, eat more fibre.
terrisus
Member
A related example - and probably more about me than anyone needs to know, so read at your own risk I suppose.
I find the act of oral sex (with anyone of any gender) repulsive.
I've never tried it, I just find it repulsive.
Does that make me prejudiced?
Or does that make me asexual?
Or does that just mean that I'm not interested in it?
I don't see anything wrong with someone deciding they don't like something without trying it.
There are ways to figure out whether or not someone would like something without trying it.
I've never tried skydiving, rock climbing, chocolate covered ants, grasshopper, or any number of other things that people do or eat.
Might I find I like some of those things if I try? Sure, it's possible.
Does assuming that I don't like them without having tried them make me "prejudiced?" I suppose.
But, I'm not going to go around in life trying every single thing just to see whether I like it or not.
That said, I have no issue at all with people doing for themselves whatever they feel is best/that they like.
I'm just referring to myself specifically.
I find the act of oral sex (with anyone of any gender) repulsive.
I've never tried it, I just find it repulsive.
Does that make me prejudiced?
Or does that make me asexual?
Or does that just mean that I'm not interested in it?
If you ask my wife, she'd probably tell you that I am asexual
I don't see anything wrong with someone deciding they don't like something without trying it.
There are ways to figure out whether or not someone would like something without trying it.
I've never tried skydiving, rock climbing, chocolate covered ants, grasshopper, or any number of other things that people do or eat.
Might I find I like some of those things if I try? Sure, it's possible.
Does assuming that I don't like them without having tried them make me "prejudiced?" I suppose.
But, I'm not going to go around in life trying every single thing just to see whether I like it or not.
That said, I have no issue at all with people doing for themselves whatever they feel is best/that they like.
I'm just referring to myself specifically.
As always, Stump is totally on point.
Most people who practice anal sex usually prepare beforehand.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
No, sir..I want to see this alleged tree sex!!!
kame-sennin
Member
Of course not. I fully support homosexual relationships and don't care what people do in their bedrooms, but if I were to actually see two men having sex then yes it would gross me out. I can imagine of lots of heterosexual sex scenarios that would gross me out too. Maybe I'm prejudiced towards everybody?
Does one need to try out meth to be repulsed by the idea of it? Or any other such example, of varying magnitudes?
People are tossing the word "repulsion" around pretty casually.
Not wanting to watch people have sex is one thing. That's not all that unusual. Having to avert your eyes when two guys kiss and having your skin crawl is a very different thing.
A reaction that strong isn't disgust -- it's fear, of a sort that our society works hard to instill in men, the fear that their manhood is in danger. It isn't fear of homosexual people -- it's fear that watching gay people kiss might mean you're gay.
Not wanting to watch people have sex is one thing. That's not all that unusual. Having to avert your eyes when two guys kiss and having your skin crawl is a very different thing.
A reaction that strong isn't disgust -- it's fear, of a sort that our society works hard to instill in men, the fear that their manhood is in danger. It isn't fear of homosexual people -- it's fear that watching gay people kiss might mean you're gay.
These comparisons are getting increasingly ridiculous.
Meh, food, sex, drugs... it's all the same to me when it comes to the simple point of "I like it" or "I don't like it."
Perhaps. I'm fascinated by people's application of some concepts or theories developed in the academic research of really soft sciences for two reasons: first, the usage of these concepts as if they're known and accepted and unchallenged truths, and second, the old adage "when you're a hammer, every problem is a nail" in taking these new theories (tools) and applying them wherever remotely relevant.
It reminds me of the aftermath of CRT seminars from the field's leading scholars in law school, and highly intelligent classmates on a Race & Law journal taking those conceptual tools as undeniable fact and challenging conventional thinking... but failing to make the initial challenge of the seminar itself. Struck me as an odd oversight.
You're repulsed by the idea of meth but don't judge meth users?
CornBurrito
Member
Most people aren't saints like you and do negatively judge drug users and drug addicts. Humans psychologically aren't good at "hate the act not the actor."
BananaSprinkles
Banned
You and I both know phobia, when used in the term homophobia, isn't a real phobia in the sense of Acrophobia (fear of heights), Claustrophobia (fear of enclosed spaces), and Arachnophobia (fear of spiders). It's used to point out instances, whether real (I'm not saying bad shit never happens) or imagined examples of discrimination based on sexual preference.
I don't know about "prejudiced". I feel like a lot of disagreement here is just going to be disagreement about what it means to be really prejudiced, and that's not terribly interesting right away.
But clearly there are a few reasons to want to not be repulsed by gay sex. As pigeon says, that's a pretty strong term. It's hard to believe that you're really treating gay people just like everyone else if you have that sort of reaction. It's not like we're very good at looking at ourselves and telling whether or not we're being fair to people.
Even milder forms of aversion are going to be problematic. Go over to one of the gaming-side threads about gay characters in video games and you'll see a lot of people expressing a mild to moderate aversion to gay romance in games, where they're even willing to admit that they'd be less likely to buy a game where the protagonist is a gay man and kisses a man at some point. Probably lots of people have a similar reaction and just won't admit or are unaware that they'd be less likely to buy a game like that. Obviously this has some troublesome implications for representation of gay people in media, etc. It's a reaction that people who want everyone to be treated equally should not want to have, and so it's something people should try to be conscious of, should try to overcome, etc. Whether we want to call it prejudice seems to me to just be an argument about how we want to define "prejudice".
But clearly there are a few reasons to want to not be repulsed by gay sex. As pigeon says, that's a pretty strong term. It's hard to believe that you're really treating gay people just like everyone else if you have that sort of reaction. It's not like we're very good at looking at ourselves and telling whether or not we're being fair to people.
Even milder forms of aversion are going to be problematic. Go over to one of the gaming-side threads about gay characters in video games and you'll see a lot of people expressing a mild to moderate aversion to gay romance in games, where they're even willing to admit that they'd be less likely to buy a game where the protagonist is a gay man and kisses a man at some point. Probably lots of people have a similar reaction and just won't admit or are unaware that they'd be less likely to buy a game like that. Obviously this has some troublesome implications for representation of gay people in media, etc. It's a reaction that people who want everyone to be treated equally should not want to have, and so it's something people should try to be conscious of, should try to overcome, etc. Whether we want to call it prejudice seems to me to just be an argument about how we want to define "prejudice".
I find this very difficult to believe (I think you *want* to think this, but it can and should skew your perception towards someone), but since I cannot dispute it I'll accept that you're a literal saint.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Nah. People can have even pretty extreme visceral reactions towards acts they find distasteful. That doesn't mean they are a bigot or have a mental illness.
To flip it around a bit, I work with a shitload of gay guys and lesbians in my business and have cultivated lots of gay friends over the last 25 years or so and in my experience its not uncommon at all that if the subject of eating pussy comes up in a conversation that a not insignificant percentage of gay guys, when in a comfortable environment of a bunch of friends or whatever, will reel back, make faces, go "yuck" or whatever. That's their honest first reaction, and I think that's OK.
People have the same reactions to foods and music and lots of other stuff they don't find appealing. That's OK too.
You CAN find a sex act, or the food people like, or music people like, or their politics distasteful to your sensibilities, without irrationally hating the people who are different than you. If you can't accept people as different than you to the point where you can't be friends with them, or can't work with them, or would limit their opportunities to persue their own happiness, THAT'S when YOU are a problem.
I do find having a reaction to anybody just kissing a bit strange. To me, ordinary "PG" kissing (the kind you'd see in public normally,) is an act of LOVE not really a sex act, and it's kinda odd IMO if something like that provokes a reaction.
To flip it around a bit, I work with a shitload of gay guys and lesbians in my business and have cultivated lots of gay friends over the last 25 years or so and in my experience its not uncommon at all that if the subject of eating pussy comes up in a conversation that a not insignificant percentage of gay guys, when in a comfortable environment of a bunch of friends or whatever, will reel back, make faces, go "yuck" or whatever. That's their honest first reaction, and I think that's OK.
People have the same reactions to foods and music and lots of other stuff they don't find appealing. That's OK too.
You CAN find a sex act, or the food people like, or music people like, or their politics distasteful to your sensibilities, without irrationally hating the people who are different than you. If you can't accept people as different than you to the point where you can't be friends with them, or can't work with them, or would limit their opportunities to persue their own happiness, THAT'S when YOU are a problem.
I do find having a reaction to anybody just kissing a bit strange. To me, ordinary "PG" kissing (the kind you'd see in public normally,) is an act of LOVE not really a sex act, and it's kinda odd IMO if something like that provokes a reaction.
You mean like, dudes, or even one dude, in a sexual situation? Who on earth would possibly find that attractive, other than underworld deviants, meth users, and people who like pineapple on pizza?
Um, okay? I'm not a saint by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not sure what your point even is right now. I wasn't speaking for all of humanity, I was speaking for myself.
Captain Europe
Member
Nah it doesn't, finding two men kissing repulsive does though.
CornBurrito
Member
My point is clear as day. You aren't like most people in that most people cannot follow the ideal of "hate the act not the actor."
Guys don't have vaginas and therefore it makes sense for gay men to not be interested in or even repulsed by that act; they do not perform it. Straight couples on the other hand perform many of the same sex acts gay couples do. I think the problem I have with a lot of these arguments is people are not able to disconnect the act ("oral sex") from the participants ("guys"), and an emotional reaction to it (as opposed to "I am simply not interested in this pairing") is indicative to me at least that it's behavior they emotionally consider deviant (eg men doing that act with other men) or have conscious or subconscious biases or prejudices towards.
Okay... but isn't the purpose of this thread to convey our unique perspectives on this subject, as unique individuals?
Why? Like others have pointed out, it's common to be grossed out by the thought of your parents having sex or old people having sex, but that doesn't mean you treat them unfairly as human beings.
kame-sennin
Member
homophobia
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia
aversion
1
obsolete : the act of turning away
2
a : a feeling of repugnance toward something with a desire to avoid or turn from it <regards drunkenness with aversion>
1
obsolete : the act of turning away
2
a : a feeling of repugnance toward something with a desire to avoid or turn from it <regards drunkenness with aversion>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aversion
"A feeling of repugnance toward something with a desire to avoid or turn from it" is exactly what people are describing in this thread.
CornBurrito
Member
Sure. Can I not point out for the benefit of our readers that your experience actually is relatively unique?
Rimming could help.
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Two guys doing it can be quite hot imo.
I guess I'm quite happy to see guys kissing etc in public. More same sex PDAs directly serves my gay sex-positive agenda.
Sure, I didn't need to argue that point either. S'all good.
Dion Blaster
Member
Well I find the idea of myself having sex with a man gross, but I find nothing wrong with gay sex itself. Not that it's something I want to see either, but I would never call it repulsive.
user8503492
Banned
I guess I'm a little "skin crawling" at the thought/sight of gay men kissing/sex.
Just as a straight male I see guys as nasty like me: Farting, belching, smelly, hairy, etc..
I think of stubbly kisses and hairy assholes and the smell of man farts.
I can "do" Bailey Jay type transgender sex tho. The VERY convincing transgender stuff is attractive to a degree but the big hands, man nose, type transgender sex is off putting.
Where as women I see as: soft, sweet, smooth, clean..
So the thought of lesbian sex/kissing is more pleasurable and attractive.
Just as a straight male I see guys as nasty like me: Farting, belching, smelly, hairy, etc..
I think of stubbly kisses and hairy assholes and the smell of man farts.
I can "do" Bailey Jay type transgender sex tho. The VERY convincing transgender stuff is attractive to a degree but the big hands, man nose, type transgender sex is off putting.
Where as women I see as: soft, sweet, smooth, clean..
So the thought of lesbian sex/kissing is more pleasurable and attractive.
nathonfilloncantbebotheredtoexplain.gif
BananaSprinkles
Banned
If I'm reading your post right, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, you're arguing that a person who doesn't enjoy (since that is arguably the opposite of repugnance) watching two other members of the same sex engage in intercourse is homophobic?
I'm gonna guess that the people saying they wouldn't want to ever see gay sex (because they aren't attracted to men) are talking more about porn, and not the unusual situation of suddenly finding themselves in the room with two gay guys going at it.
So I have to ask; if you look at hetero porn with a guy and a lady, are you still instantly "repulsed" by the guy in the frame? Because let's not kid ourselves and say that men are invisible in porn aimed at hetero males.
So I have to ask; if you look at hetero porn with a guy and a lady, are you still instantly "repulsed" by the guy in the frame? Because let's not kid ourselves and say that men are invisible in porn aimed at hetero males.
You're definitely not reading it right. No where does it say you have to enjoy it.
ab.aeterno
Member
That's rather a false dichotomy, as it ignores indifference or apathy. It seems especially strange to conclude the only viable alternative is its polar opposite.
I think parents are a pretty bad example. The reasons we might find parental sex gross are very different and people have strong relationships with their parents that are going to dominate other factors in determining how they treat their parents.
Old people are a better example. Of course, it's pretty easy to argue that we don't, as a society, treat old people fairly. But even here there are some pretty clear differences, in that we all expect to be old people someday, almost all of us are close to a few old people, and it's uncontroversial that old people are different from everyone else in important ways.
I think examples which are clearly much more like vanilla gay sex, from the perspective of a heterosexual person with a strong aversion to gay sex, support the point I was making. Consider sex between a very ugly man and a very ugly woman. Lots of heterosexual people are going to find that repulsive. And lots of heterosexual people give preferential treatment to better-looking individuals. Something similar could be said about obese heterosexual sex. I suspect that an aversion to obese sex is going to correlate pretty strongly with judginess about people with obesity and with preferential treatment for the non-obese. Interracial heterosexual sex is a pretty obvious one that needs no elaboration, though I don't know how widespread aversion to it is nowadays.
Why would you have to enjoy it? There are a whole lot of feelings between repugnance and enjoyment.
Nope, anything less than infinite distaste for homosexuality is indication that you are secretly all-the-way gay
GameAddict411
Member
i have always wanted to know this: what does straight women think of gay sex? especially if they find the men attractive? i know that some men like to watch lesbian and transgender porn, but are women the same?
I dunno. I'm down for both flavors. I do have personal hangups when imagining post-op transgender folks, but I think that goes more into the general sense of the willies I get about most all serious body modification. Would never stand in the way or look down on such people, though. I've no right or desire to force others to comply with my feelings.
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