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[lyrick]

Are you kidding me?

Bullet points are not supposed to go in depth. The original analysis quotes:



so where exactly is my bullet point misleading or biased?? I almost used the exact same words...

And as far as buggy PC shadows it is also mentioned on my bullet points explicitly... so please, stop with this so-called "biased" nonsense.

Your particular choice of phrasing in an attempt to paraphrase a single sentence in the conclusion [which already doesn't quite match the other points brought up throughout the full article] has unfortunately lead some readers to mistakenly believe that the PS4 version offers parity to the PC version, which is simply untrue.

I'm only suggesting that you alter your bullet points to offer a more accurate view of the situation.

 

[teokrazia]

I know what shadow filtering is. DF analisys have more than one screenshot. All of them show the same shadow differences.

They have confused a texture filtering problem with a difference in texture resolution too. And they have not been able to see the tessellation in the main character in the console version. Obvious things just looking at the screenshots.

'Objective measurements', such as screenshots and videos, are the only stuff of DF that worth a click.

The rest is skippable.
I can't count the number of BS I've read there, in years.

 

[Slackerchan]

I'm usually not one to complain all that much about resolution, framerate and screen-tearing in a game but man is it bad in Sniper Elite 3 on my Xbone. I've played through the 4th mission and it amazes me that the framerate can be so inconsistent. Near 60 here, 20 or worse there, you never really know when it's gonna go up or down. The screen tearing is just bad though. A full speed turn of the camera will result in strong screen tearing about half the time. The game has a V-sync option but turning that on reduces the framerate down to 30fps max.

Couple with the metric ton of gameplay inconsistencies SE3 suffers from, these make me really not want to play this game anymore.

 

[valkyre]

Your posts remind me of someone that gets their feelings hurt because the X1 isn't as powerful as the PS4.

Yeah, it's sort of close to mid-range gaming PCs...and it's almost as good, but to think it's in the same category as a platform one can customize, is pretty silly.

I run most of my PC games at 1440p downsampled to 1080p, sometimes with extra AA on top of that and everything cranked to the roof. Those settings would pull the PS4 below 30fps in games I'm running in the 60fps range. Heck, the X1 would probably be happy to run a game at 15fps at those settings.

Matching the PS4 settings @1080p and some AA, I'd guess my PC would run it at 100fps. I don't consider 100fps and 40-60fps keeping up in gaming hardware, but I wouldn't frown on the latter.

I say be happy that the game runs as well as it does and enjoy it no matter your hardware. I think I'd agree it keeps up with mid-range PCs, if DF is using that as the comparison target, I'd say that's a good thing.

Honestly, I think the game looks a bit janky even on the PC. Looks ok I guess.


Edit** I just watched a video of a guy playing the game at 4k with an i7 and 780GTX (that's what I have). The game stays around 50fps with a range from 45fps-60fps ups and downs wise. Again, that's at 4k

Αnd your post towards someone who already told you that the PC version is certainly the best one out there, reminds me of someone who -inexplicably- feels the need to not only hear that his PC version is "certainly the best" , that is not enough, it seems like he needs to hear things such as "PC version completely utterly destroys console versions", or something like that.

Seems like simply stating that your machine has the better version is not enough... there needs to be exclamation, or else it just doent make it justice.

I really dont get it. You went all the way to make a 100 word post to a guy who told you that PC has the best version, argumenting something along the lines: "no dude, its not just the best version, its much more than that and it completely destroys anything running in a console".

Ok. Your wish is granted.

"PC version of Sniper Elite 3, completely destroys PS4/XB1 versions, there is no contest, no discussion, no debate. And DF is wrong not to state that explicitly and dare to imply that PS4 version features almost identical IQ with PC"

I hope that this satisfies you.

Your particular choice of phrasing in an attempt to paraphrase a single sentence in the conclusion [which already doesn't quite match the other points brought up throughout the full article] has unfortunately lead some readers to mistakenly believe that the PS4 version offers parity to the PC version, which is simply untrue.

I'm only suggesting that you alter your bullet points to offer a more accurate view of the situation.

Ok, agreed, I will add the tesselation Anisotropic and AA advantages of the PC version in the OP. But I insist that I find it unnecessary to state the obvious... Everyone knows the PC can up resolution, anisotropic and AA settings (among others) far beyond those found in consoles. So its like stating that the Sun is warm or something...

 

[Toxa]

another PS4 vs PC thread ;(

 

[Foxyone]

Edit** I just watched a video of a guy playing the game at 4k with an i7 and 780GTX (that's what I have). The game stays around 50fps with a range from 45fps-60fps ups and downs wise. Again, that's at 4k

Also with non-watered-down tessellation. Looking at more videos like that, quite a few games tend to hover around the 40-50 FPS range at 4k with those specs,

 

[valkyre]

another PS4 vs PC thread ;(

Yes and I really dont know why it always has to trun into one of these...

It seems that the only solution to avoid this is to put a disclaimer in the OP of such threads before posting anything, stating emphatically that the PC version of said game is destroying the console versions.

And then proceed to make the post.

We know the PC is the most powerful system and has 100% of the times the best versions compared to consoles.

 

[Foxyone]

Yes and I really dont know why it always has to trun into one of these...

It seems that the only solution to avoid this is to put a disclaimer in the OP of such threads before posting anything, stating emphatically that the PC version of said game is destroying the console versions.

And then proceed to make the post.

We know the PC is the most powerful system and has 100% of the times the best versions compared to consoles.

I think it could still be up for debate what specs are needed in a PC to match a console in a particular game.

 

[valkyre]

I think it could still be up for debate what specs are needed in a PC to match a console in a particular game.

but that rarely turns out to be the focus of such discussions. It always ends up as to how much better it looks maxed out.Which obviously, it does. And that is why the post by Glorified G is so relevant and is how DF is placing its analysis with a certain context in mind.

 

[AlStrong]

What's the better shadows for you?

What about:

serration
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_027.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_027.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_023.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_023.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1


(bridge area)
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_024.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_024.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

?

More PCF samples ?

 

[FZW]

Played it at my friend's house this past weekend on X1 and saw no problem with the graphics. Looked great.

I've got it on XBone, I thought it looked and played fine :-/

It does look great on the X1 ... i guess i dont have the eye for these things. Granted, i played with V sync on.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

The old ps4 has no AF joke, how could I forget it.

You have to read this DRIVECLUB thread to really appreciate it, Max.

 

[Serenity]

but that rarely turns out to be the focus of such discussions. It always ends up as to how much better it looks maxed out.Which obviously, it does. And that is why the post by Glorified G is so relevant and is how DF is placing its analysis with a certain context in mind.

It's because some of the so called PC guys are either xbox fans or nintendo fans.

 

[shandy706]

another PS4 vs PC thread ;(

No, that was and is not the point.

Yes and I really dont know why it always has to trun into one of these...

I think people's problem was with your bullet point including IQ @ 1080p and you saying the PS4 is keeping up with PC in a later post.

The DF article in fact says...

"Alternatively, if you can run in 1080p with 4x SSAA at a consistently smooth frame-rate, this opens up the possibility of gaming natively in 4K using the ultra preset (with super-sampling disabled) - a stunning experience that goes far beyond what the PS4 or Xbox One versions can muster."

"...although the technology doesn't appear to be fully optimised for the task in hand given the large gap between PC, PS4 and Xbox One performance. The PS4 game holds up rather well in approaching a 60fps set-up while featuring almost identical graphical quality to the PC game running with ultra settings enabled."

Your bullet point currently says "PS4 fares well, almost matching PC IQ (@1080p), running at ultra settings as DF claims."

Now, I'm probably not alone in this, but I don't consider Graphics Quality and IQ to be the same thing. One can run everything on ultra with simple IQ solutions and one can run everything on ultra with IQ bells and whistles.

Based on the way DF talks and details things, I would think they refer to graphics quality and settings as not the same thing as overall IQ.

Maybe that's where the disconnection is with some people?

Typically "Ultra Settings" doesn't necessarily include IQ settings in PC gaming. That's why one may say I'm running with all Ultra settings, @1080p, with FXAA/MSAA/8X AA/etc. Typically final IQ is separate from basic graphics settings like shadows, textures, draw distance, etc.

 

[lyrick]

What about:

serration
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_027.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_027.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_023.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_023.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1


(bridge area)
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_024.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_024.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

?

More PCF samples ?

On pic [027]: the jaggies in the PC pic are harsh, and the missing shadow (or it's very-very light) from the soldier in the PS4 version is weird.

On Pic [024]: the Shadows on PC just look softer, or I'm not seeing what you're trying to point out.

On Pic [023]: I can see the jaggies on the shadows of the sandbags, But holy crap at the texture mishap on the artillery in the PS4 version, and what's up with the blurry grating on both versions?

Jaggie sandbag shadows:

Artillery Texture:

Blurry grates:

 

[valkyre]

No, that was and is not the point.



I think people's problem was with your bullet point including IQ @ 1080p and you saying the PS4 is keeping up with PC in a later post.

The DF article in fact says...

"Alternatively, if you can run in 1080p with 4x SSAA at a consistently smooth frame-rate, this opens up the possibility of gaming natively in 4K using the ultra preset (with super-sampling disabled) - a stunning experience that goes far beyond what the PS4 or Xbox One versions can muster."

"...although the technology doesn't appear to be fully optimised for the task in hand given the large gap between PC, PS4 and Xbox One performance. The PS4 game holds up rather well in approaching a 60fps set-up while featuring almost identical graphical quality to the PC game running with ultra settings enabled."

Your bullet point currently says "PS4 fares well, almost matching PC IQ (@1080p), running at ultra settings as DF claims."

Now, I'm probably not alone in this, but I don't consider Graphics Quality and IQ to be the same thing. One can run everything on ultra with simple IQ solutions and one can run everything on ultra with IQ bells and whistles.

Based on the way DF talks and details things, I would think they refer to graphics quality and settings as not the same thing as overall IQ.

Maybe that's where the disconnection is with some people?

Typically "Ultra Settings" doesn't necessarily include IQ settings in PC gaming. That's why one may say I'm running with all Ultra settings, @1080p, with FXAA/MSAA/8X AA/etc. Typically final IQ is separate from basic graphics settings like shadows, textures, draw distance, etc.

Please read the final verdict from DF. I even quoted it in one of my previous posts. That is where i even got the bullet point. Check what they say and tell me that the bullet point is biased... I even used most of their wording. I added though the ...obvious, that most settings on PC like resolution anisotropic AA etc can go above what consoles offer...

But i say it again... That is obvious to anyone even casually playing games.

Edit: sorry on mobile now i see that you dont consider IQ same as graphic fidelity. Yes perhaps there is an error there from my part if the terminology points to 2 completely different things. But honestly thats what i got when reading the article.

 

[shandy706]

Edit: sorry on mobile now i see that you dont consider IQ same as graphic fidelity. Yes perhaps there is an error there from my part if the terminology points to 2 completely different things. But honestly thats what i got when reading the article.

Started to type what you just put in your edit, lol.

Yeah, that was more my point (graphic quality/settings that is). It's possible I'm being very picky in the way I look at "Ultra Settings" and what is inclusive in it.

Some people don't know the difference. I separate the two as they can have major impacts on performance.

However, 99% of people probably don't even care about that nitpick or wording and the meaning...let alone any difference .

Anyway, no big deal....my PC gaming side (obviously I play on consoles too) got stuck on IQ vs Graphics settings. I don't ever mean to come across as "PCs iz Godz".

 

[Lacix]

On pic [027]: the jaggies in the PC pic are harsh, and the missing shadow (or it's very-very light) from the soldier in the PS4 version is weird.

On Pic [024]: the Shaodws on PC just look softer, or I'm not seeing what you're trying to point out.

Better and more shadows.

 

[lyrick]

Better and more shadows.

I see the jaggies, which are very unfortunate, but I can't agree that hard sharp shadows necessarily implies better shadows.

Pic [021] is all over the place between versions, and probably not the best when it comes to judging the PS4 version]

The texture issues are obvious, but you can also see some pretty cool things going on with the characters face and clothing and satchel along with a halo like effect coming from the arm on the PC version and the head on all 3 versions.

 

[Shin-Ra]

It may affect each version to different degrees (and even differ with repeated plays of the same version) but apparently loading directly into a pre-level cutscene instead of transitioning from the previous level causes this late texture load.

 

[MaLDo]

What about:

serration
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_027.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_027.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_023.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_023.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1


(bridge area)
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PC_024.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/9/1/6/0/3/PS4_024.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

?

More PCF samples ?

I don't need more samples because what you are pointing is, as I said before, obvious.

A lower resolution better filtered shadow is not "worse". But it's not "better". That's why when I said

Worse AA, worse tessellation and worse framerate is downgrading, yes.

I have not included the shadows as an improvement over the console version. And when I said

Looking at the screenshots, what I will say is PC has better filtered shadows. Soft shadows is an upgrade, not downgrade. But maybe I need a more deep comparisson.

In this shot, the better filtering is visible in ground shadows, and the worse filtered shadow map is what produces artifacts in the ammo crate latch shadow in PS4 screenshot.

It's clear that I'm talking about shadow filtering and not resolution. A lower resolution better filtered shadow is only "different" and a matter of preferences. The more filtered a shadow is, the less loss of information by reducing the resolution. Although in this case the gap between the first shadow map circle and the next shadow lod is too close to the camera.

 

[zedge]

Posted? X1 vsync off vs on.
Edit

Apparently..nm

 

[zedge]

So with the Xbox One version patched you can turn on v-sync and the tearing is gone?

The option to turn vsync on was there from the start, no patch needed. Unless I misunderstand you.

 

[VSynk]

In the x1 version you have super-powers.

 

[Stallion Free]

another PS4 vs PC thread ;(

Instead of another PS4 vs Xbox One thread?

 

[AlStrong]

I don't need more samples because what you are pointing is, as I said before, obvious.

I'm talking about shadowmap samples. The more PCF samples you do, the softer the shadow.

Not sure you personally need more sampling.

Personally Close Filter! :O

A lower resolution better filtered shadow is only "different" and a matter of preferences.

mmhm...

---------

Edit:

Anyways, I wonder if the different algorithm mucked up the shadow sampling density. Seems weird that they would render a lower res shadowmap (than usual) while going with the other shadow algorithm, especially on PC.

Could just be funny distribution if they were doing cascades + contact hardening (?)

 

[Metfanant]

Everyone knows at this point that the PS4 is the more powerful of the two consoles, yet that doesn't stop the performance comparisons. Bring the PC into it though and suddenly its trolling.

no...it has nothing to do with being a cace of bringing the PC into it...so im glad you took the time to actually comprehend what i said... /s

PC gamers might not like to hear this...but frankly, for the vast majority of the general gaming public the PC is absolutely irrelevant...

but the PS4 and Xbone are direct competitors...people are interested in how the games perform and run on those consoles compared to each other...yes the PS4 is the more powerful...but sometimes things are not so clear cut...CoD Ghosts for instance absolutely had a more consistent framerate on the Xbone...some people might find that more important

the PS3 was "more powerful" than the 360...but the 360 consistently had better multiplats...yet that slowly started to change in some cases...there was sometimes complete parity...sometimes one platform has advantages in some areas, and falls short in others...etc...etc...

its not inherently trolling to talk about the PC version, but very often the people bringing up the PC version are trolling...

I know what you mean, drive-by posts like that are very annoying. But that is neither here nor there considering 1. This DF article is about all 3 systems, and 2. The original convo that I started was with someone comparing the PS4 version to the PC version.

i understand your point completely...i was simply pointing out the reasons i feel a lot of people get defensive in regards to the PC version being brought up...

if it was up to me the PC version would:

- not be included in comparisons at all
- only used as a reference for which console version is "closest to optimal"
- used in a seperate comparison against the better of two console versions to show the differences

If someone is mistaken I have every right to correct them. It doesn't matter if you don't care, being wrong is being wrong, and that can be a headache if an easily influenced mind gets ahold of incorrect info.

How about making a case as to why the PS4 version looks exactly like the PC version with zero differences at 1080p?

youre absolutely right that you have the right to correct people that are incorrect...and saying the PS4 version is identical to the PC version is 100% wrong...its damn close, and for a $400 box thats impressive...but the PC version is absolutely better, no doubt about it...

but again, just trying to give a reason for the animosity towards PC discussion

 

[Matt]

the PS3 was "more powerful" than the 360...but the 360 consistently had better multiplats...yet that slowly started to change in some cases...there was sometimes complete parity...sometimes one platform has advantages in some areas, and falls short in others...etc...etc...

None of that is applicable to this situation.

On topic, I've actually had a lot of fun with SE III, and am fairly impressed that Rebellion managed to make it look as good as it does.

Just wish I had the Grey Wolf DLC.

 

[Metfanant]

None of that is applicable to this situation.

On topic, I've actually had a lot of fun with SE III, and am fairly impressed that Rebellion managed to make it look as good as it does.

Just wish I had the Grey Wolf DLC.

Actually it's very applicable...there have been a handful of games already this generation that have shown certain areas when the Xbone game was "better." CoD's frame rate being one of them...some games have funky glitches on the PS4 version...or games lacking AF...

For whatever reason in those particular comparisons the more powerful console was not a better game in every category...just like we saw in PS3/360 comparisons...

The console to console comparisons are VERY relevant...especially now that developers seem to be moving towards resolution parity...there will likely be even more technical differences now...

 

[Matt]

Actually it's very applicable...there have been a handful of games already this generation that have shown certain areas when the Xbone game was "better." CoD's frame rate being one of them...some games have funky glitches on the PS4 version...or games lacking AF...

For whatever reason in those particular comparisons the more powerful console was not a better game in every category...just like we saw in PS3/360 comparisons...

The console to console comparisons are VERY relevant...especially now that developers seem to be moving towards resolution parity...there will likely be even more technical differences now...

Those situations were the result of bugs or flukes. This is not like the last generation when each console had pluses and minuses.

 

[Metfanant]

Those situations were the result of bugs or flukes. This is not like the last generation when each console had pluses and minuses.

The difference in the framerate of Cod:Ghosts is no bug, or fluke...yes, it's the direct result of the lower resolution...but please explain to me how that is not a clear cut example of each console having "pluses and minuses"

The same can be said for UFC...same resolution...better AA and motion blur on PS4...better framerate on XBone...


Again...pluses and minuses...

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

another PS4 vs PC thread ;(

I will never undestand that. Of course you can run ultra settings at 4K on your expensive top-of-the-class, but what if you put them on an even field where both platforms run at 1080p? If PS4 can reach those max settings at that resolution, why the hell even bother to mock users or sites claiming it's coming close to the PC version when you know devs are going to target 1920x1080 as their limit on consoles (there are games running at higher res on PS4 but they are simple 2D art style games)

If the console can reach the max settings the PC version has, that's a damn perfect way to describe "coming close to PC" as far as I know.

 

[Matt]

The difference in the framerate of Cod:Ghosts is no bug, or fluke...yes, it's the direct result of the lower resolution...but please explain to me how that is not a clear cut example of each console having "pluses and minuses"

The same can be said for UFC...same resolution...better AA and motion blur on PS4...better framerate on XBone...


Again...pluses and minuses...

No, those differences are the result of decisions made by the developers and lack of proper optimization to back up those decisions. There is nothing about the XBO that allows it to do anything over the PS4. When I said pluses and minuses I was referring to the systems, not individual games.

 

[Metfanant]

No, those differences are the result of decisions made by the developers and lack of proper optimization to back up those decisions. There is nothing about the XBO that allows it to do anything over the PS4. When I said pluses and minuses I was referring to the systems, not individual games.

I'm not arguing that there are any pluses to the Xbone hardware the PS4 is better in every single conceivable way...yet there have been multiple examples where pluses and minuses have manifested themselves in the end result of the software, and that is what Digital foundry comparisons are all about...the games...

It doesn't matter what the REASON for the discrepancies in the games are, what matters is that they are there...at the end of the day a lot of the poor performing PS3 games were down to lack of optimization on that platform...that didn't make DF comparisons irrelevant then...and it doesn't make them irrelevant now...

Its no different then the idea that sports are not "played on paper." On paper...England, Italy, and Uruguay are better teams than Costa Rica...but Costa Rica won the group at the World Cup...

Part of what makes DF comparisons (to me at least) is to see the different decisions the developers made to try and get the best from both platforms...CoD Ghosts was an interesting example of this...

 

[HTupolev]

The difference in the framerate of Cod:Ghosts is no bug, or fluke...yes, it's the direct result of the lower resolution...but please explain to me how that is not a clear cut example of each console having "pluses and minuses"

Depends on whether you're talking about the console as a conglomeration of the hardware and its library, or the console as a piece of hardware. In the multiplats where the PS4 has a framerate disadvantage versus XB1, it also has various graphical advantages, so those aren't clear evidence of the XB1 having any particular hardware strengths over the PS4.

Strictly speaking, it's possible to come up with particular metrics in which the XB1 has some advantages; for instance, theoretically speaking, it has higher peak GPU bandwidth than PS4 does. Whether it can feasibly utilize that "advantage" to perform better overall in some real-world game instances (and in particular, where all things aside from framerate are equal) is another question.

 

[Matt]

Strictly speaking, it's possible to come up with particular metrics in which the XB1 has some advantages; for instance, theoretically speaking, it has higher peak GPU bandwidth than PS4 does. Whether it can feasibly utilize that "advantage" to perform better overall in some real-world game instances (and in particular, where all things aside from framerate are equal) is another question.

I mean...it's not really a question at all...

 

[Tagyhag]

but again, just trying to give a reason for the animosity towards PC discussion

Yeah I can see why the animosity is there in the first place, I don't condone butting in with something that has nothing to do with the convo or mocking others.

I will never undestand that. Of course you can run ultra settings at 4K on your expensive top-of-the-class, but what if you put them on an even field where both platforms run at 1080p? If PS4 can reach those max settings at that resolution, why the hell even bother to mock users or sites claiming it's coming close to the PC version when you know devs are going to target 1920x1080 as their limit on consoles (there are games running at higher res on PS4 but they are simple 2D art style games)

If the console can reach the max settings the PC version has, that's a damn perfect way to describe "coming close to PC" as far as I know.

If we're talking about purely even fields (That is, handicapping the PC to only use 1080p resolution, and only use the settings that the PS4 can run) then yes the PS4 comes pretty darn close to the PC, it's quite a looker and almost at constant 60fps. I don't agree with those calling the devs lazy, they did a fine job (Except for the X1 problems, but I assume those are being patched?)

However, when you say max settings, depending on who you ask, that could mean literally MAX settings (So AA and resolutions that the PS4 would struggle immensely to run and make a world of difference) or "max" settings (As high as you could get it at a playable framerate). It's a never ending debate because different people are going to have different opinions as to what max settings actually means.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm not arguing that there are any pluses to the Xbone hardware the PS4 is better in every single conceivable way...yet there have been multiple examples where pluses and minuses have manifested themselves in the end result of the software, and that is what Digital foundry comparisons are all about...the games...

It doesn't matter what the REASON for the discrepancies in the games are, what matters is that they are there...at the end of the day a lot of the poor performing PS3 games were down to lack of optimization on that platform...that didn't make DF comparisons irrelevant then...and it doesn't make them irrelevant now...

Its no different then the idea that sports are not "played on paper." On paper...England, Italy, and Uruguay are better teams than Costa Rica...but Costa Rica won the group at the World Cup...

Part of what makes DF comparisons (to me at least) is to see the different decisions the developers made to try and get the best from both platforms...CoD Ghosts was an interesting example of this...

Depends on whether you're talking about the console as a conglomeration of the hardware and its library, or the console as a piece of hardware. In the multiplats where the PS4 has a framerate disadvantage versus XB1, it also has various graphical advantages, so those aren't clear evidence of the XB1 having any particular hardware strengths over the PS4.

Strictly speaking, it's possible to come up with particular metrics in which the XB1 has some advantages; for instance, theoretically speaking, it has higher peak GPU bandwidth than PS4 does. Whether it can feasibly utilize that "advantage" to perform better overall in some real-world game instances (and in particular, where all things aside from framerate are equal) is another question.

Just so you guys know, Matt is a developer and is speaking from experience.

 

[Nethaniah]

I will never undestand that. Of course you can run ultra settings at 4K on your expensive top-of-the-class, but what if you put them on an even field where both platforms run at 1080p? If PS4 can reach those max settings at that resolution, why the hell even bother to mock users or sites claiming it's coming close to the PC version when you know devs are going to target 1920x1080 as their limit on consoles (there are games running at higher res on PS4 but they are simple 2D art style games)

If the console can reach the max settings the PC version has, that's a damn perfect way to describe "coming close to PC" as far as I know.

Dumbest thing i've read from a console warrior lately, why not do this with the ps4 aswel to throw the xbox one a bone? One platform happens to be able to run games at a far higher resolution than others, why does that make the fact that it is therefor a better version unfair?

Stating facts is mocking now, damn what the hell happened to this forum.

 

[Metfanant]

Depends on whether you're talking about the console as a conglomeration of the hardware and its library, or the console as a piece of hardware. In the multiplats where the PS4 has a framerate disadvantage versus XB1, it also has various graphical advantages, so those aren't clear evidence of the XB1 having any particular hardware strengths over the PS4.

Strictly speaking, it's possible to come up with particular metrics in which the XB1 has some advantages; for instance, theoretically speaking, it has higher peak GPU bandwidth than PS4 does. Whether it can feasibly utilize that "advantage" to perform better overall in some real-world game instances (and in particular, where all things aside from framerate are equal) is another question.

I'm not defending the Xbone here AT ALL...simply defending the relevance of DF comparisons regardless of what we know Bout the hardware...

Whether the "pluses" for the Xbone come from flukes, developer decisions, lack of optimization for the PS4, glitches/bugs, or sheer dumb luck...there are instances where the Xbone has had advantages...

Yes, in the instances where the Xbone does have a performance (framerate particularly) advantage (CoD, UFC) the PS4 version is substantially better in other areas...I have CoD ghosts for the PS4...I've played it on the Xbone...I think the PS4 version is VASTLY superior regardless of the framerate...

I have not played UFC...but from the videos I have seen, again, the Ps4 version looks very much like the superior version...regardless of framerate...

I'm not trying to suggest there is any hardware advantage for the Xbone at all...because there really isn't...simply stating that dismissing DF comparisons because we know one console is superior is dumb...

I mean...it's not really a question at all...

of course it's not really a question...and you know more about things behind the scenes then I EVER could...I hope you understand I'm not trying to argue for the Xbone's hardware...or defend the console itself in anyway...

Just pointing out how there have been instances (for whatever reason) where the Xbone has had an advantage here or there...

Yeah I can see why the animosity is there in the first place, I don't condone butting in with something that has nothing to do with the convo or mocking others.



If we're talking about purely even fields (That is, handicapping the PC to only use 1080p resolution, and only use the settings that the PS4 can run) then yes the PS4 comes pretty darn close to the PC, it's quite a looker and almost at constant 60fps. I don't agree with those calling the devs lazy, they did a fine job (Except for the X1 problems, but I assume those are being patched?)

However, when you say max settings, depending on who you ask, that could mean literally MAX settings (So AA and resolutions that the PS4 would struggle immensely to run and make a world of difference) or "max" settings (As high as you could get it at a playable framerate). It's a never ending debate because different people are going to have different opinions as to what max settings actually means.

And this is again, part of the reason I wish DF kept the PC out of the comparison...there are just so many variables added to the equation...

Just so you guys know, Matt is a developer and is speaking from experience.

no shit...

And like I've tried to say over and over again I'm not arguing ANYTHING about the Xbone's hardware in comparison to the PS4...heck I don't even own one...only a PS4 at this point because it's the better console...

That doesn't change the fact that the Xbone version of CoD and UFC have better framerates...the reasons for that could be complete incompetence by the developers...but it's evidence to show that DF comparisons are relevant, regardless of the fact that we all know the PS4 is the more powerful console....

Dumbest thing i've read from a console warrior lately, why not do this with the ps4 aswel to throw the xbox one a bone? One platform happens to be able to run games at a far higher resolution than others, why does that make the fact that it is therefor a better version unfair?

Stating facts is mocking now, damn what the hell happened to this forum.

Why the need for calling him a "console warrior" it's unnecessary and is exactly the type of crap that I've been trying to say is what causes the animosity towards the PC version...

The problem I have with your argument however is the term "platform." Because "PC" really isn't a singular platform...

- Yes with $1000 I could build a PC that will run Sniper Elite 3 better than the PS4
- yes with $800 I could build a PC that will run Sniper Elite 3 better than the PS4
- could I do it with $400? doubt it
- could a Dell Desktop from 2003 with a 3ghz single core P4 and Intel integrated graphics do it? Nope...

Which one of those "PC's" properly represent the "platform" that can "run games at a far higher resolution?"

 

[Matt]

of course it's not really a question...and you know more about things behind the scenes then I EVER could...I hope you understand I'm not trying to argue for the Xbone's hardware...or defend the console itself in anyway...

Yeah, I recognize we were talking about different things.

 

[Tagyhag]

IAnd this is again, part of the reason I wish DF kept the PC out of the comparison...there are just so many variables added to the equation...

I like hearing about the comparisons but man, the debates that it spawns lol.

 

[Metfanant]

I like hearing about the comparisons but man, the debates that it spawns lol.

Did DF include the PC is it's PS360 comparisons? I honestly don't remember, I'm being too lazy to look and I'm in the middle of like a 10 hour long catch up session of "24" Nd don't feel like looking...

The reason I ask (and I may be reading between the lines too much) is that every comparison they post now, whenever the PC version is mentioned, the perceived (to me) tone is to downplay the PS4 version...almost in a "yes, it's better than the Xbox version...BUUUUUUTTTT the PC version with all the goodies turned on stomps it" kinda way...

 

[NBtoaster]

The problem I have with your argument however is the term "platform." Because "PC" really isn't a singular platform...

- Yes with $1000 I could build a PC that will run Sniper Elite 3 better than the PS4
- yes with $800 I could build a PC that will run Sniper Elite 3 better than the PS4
- could I do it with $400? doubt it
- could a Dell Desktop from 2003 with a 3ghz single core P4 and Intel integrated graphics do it? Nope...

Which one of those "PC's" properly represent the "platform" that can "run games at a far higher resolution?"

Why does any of this matter? What people come to see is the PC version running at it's best at a reasonable resolution. There are other sites and benchmarks for reduced settings.

 

[Metfanant]

Why does any of this matter? What people come to see is the PC version running at it's best at a reasonable resolution. There are other sites and benchmarks for reduced settings.

It matters for many reasons...

There is no singular "PC version" of a game...some people can play the game at better settings than the Ps4...some people at very similar settings...some lower...some not at all...

It matters because like I've said before I don't think the PC belongs in a comparison between the consoles...it's just not relevant...I'm not downplaying the PC...if you've got one that's capable enough it's the best place to play multiplat games 100% hands down...and if DF wanted to publish a separate comparison of the maxed out PC version against the better console version to see how it stacks up then I'm all for it...

But I just don't think the PC belongs in the PS4 vs Xbone discussion...

 

[ypo]

I never understood the tearing thing and what's so bad about it, but now... oh god :/

I never imagined that much of a difference

On Xbone the enemy kills itself.

 

[grandwizard]

It matters for many reasons...

There is no singular "PC version" of a game...some people can play the game at better settings than the Ps4...some people at very similar settings...some lower...some not at all...

It matters because like I've said before I don't think the PC belongs in a comparison between the consoles...it's just not relevant...I'm not downplaying the PC...if you've got one that's capable enough it's the best place to play multiplat games 100% hands down...and if DF wanted to publish a separate comparison of the maxed out PC version against the better console version to see how it stacks up then I'm all for it...

But I just don't think the PC belongs in the PS4 vs Xbone discussion...

The face-off includes the PC so that is why the PC is in the discussion. I know people are eager to return to the 2007 heyday of pretending the PC doesn't exist, but that is not going to happen. If the face-off specifically only compared the two console versions, like say for a console exclusive title, I would agree with you that PC talk would be out of place. That is not the case though.

As far as the hardware setup, using a mid-range modern gaming machine should be fine. It would be disingenuous and not serve the game playing audience for them to use a decade old Dell internet-browser for a comparison in modern game performance.

 

[Metfanant]

The face-off includes the PC so that is why the PC is in the discussion. I know people are eager to return to the 2007 heyday of pretending the PC doesn't exist, but that is not going to happen. If the face-off specifically only compared the two console versions, like say for a console exclusive title, I would agree with you that PC talk would be out of place. That is not the case though.

As far as the hardware setup, using a mid-range modern gaming machine should be fine. It would be disingenuous and not serve the game playing audience for them to use a decade old Dell internet-browser for a comparison in modern game performance.

Yes, based on my reading comprehension skills, I can confirm in fact that DF does indeed include the PC in the article...however, that is not the point I'm making...

I notice you mention however, a "mid-range modern gaming machine." What is your definition of such a machine?

 

[NBtoaster]

It matters for many reasons...

There is no singular "PC version" of a game...some people can play the game at better settings than the Ps4...some people at very similar settings...some lower...some not at all...

It matters because like I've said before I don't think the PC belongs in a comparison between the consoles...it's just not relevant...I'm not downplaying the PC...if you've got one that's capable enough it's the best place to play multiplat games 100% hands down...and if DF wanted to publish a separate comparison of the maxed out PC version against the better console version to see how it stacks up then I'm all for it...

But I just don't think the PC belongs in the PS4 vs Xbone discussion...

It's not just a comparison between the consoles. PC has always been part of it.

 

[valkyre]

While my opinion is that PC of course should always be mentioned in such articles for technical analysis, some things should just go by as "obvious" in such discussions here on forums.

By "obvious" I mean that PC will always (unless there is a huge fackap from dev team) obviously have the better version.

PC will always obviously offer higher resolution options than consoles.

PC will always obviously offer higher settings for anisotropic filtering

PC will always obviously offer higher AA options.

PC will always obviously offer higher textures settings.

...

...

you see where I am going with it?

It is simply OBVIOUS that PC has the best version. To everyone. Whether he has an XB1 a PS4 or a Wii. Now I am not suggesting that nobody should mention PC in such articles or threads, but people should keep in mind that it in some way, PC is out of the equation for a lot of people.

Not because it is not better but because it is better. People tend to focus more on console tech wars, because those are (historically) closer to each other, than to PC. PC is considered by most "out of the question" because it is a given fact that PC can be customized and be much more powerful in all respects when it comes to raw numbers and technical performance. Thus, people see the PS4 and XB1 as the main "meat" of the battle when it comes to such technical analysis articles.

They dont really even pay attention as to what is the difference between consoles and PC. It is a given the difference will be as big as the machine that each one has at their homes. What most people do care, is the battle between closed sytems/consoles which cannot be altered in any way and will always display the same thing.

PC and consoles are in some way completely different things. Its like apples and oranges, and thats because the difference in specs can be vast if we take into consideration a maxed out hardware-wise PC.

So, in a way, to me atleast, PC is a given that it will be the best everytime, thus the focus and the interesting part, turns into who is going to come to take second place overall and 1st place in consoles. Its like 2 different categories, PC is heavyweight, consoles are middleweight. I hope it makes sense the way I put it.