yes.
9 clueless things white people say when confronted with racism
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yes.
Indeed.
That is not reverse racism. :|
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
And wouldn't those "white people" joke be racist?
Tesseract
Banned
check your privilege
My post is there to explain how social tensions got way better in the past 60 years.
You don't know anything about me, neither the country where I come from, should I check my privilege? That's offensive and judgmental.
So my privilege is being born in a country with less social tensions than yours? Tolerance is now a privilege?
I see your situation from the outside and from my limited point of view there seem to be too much hate in the us and much less reasoning.
I'll check my privilege then if it makes your feel better
Yes I do, and in my previous posts I was talking about racism between Italians, who had been strong for decades.
Our immigration is so recent that most of the migrants haven't been there for more than 10 years, I wasn't obviously referring to that which is a completely different situation.
Anyway, we have racial problems and there are many racists all over the place but that article is wrong on so many levels, you must keep in mind that our political situation has been degradated so much in the last 20 years and many politicians are able to say whatever they want without harming their electorate (you know berlusconi) but these people don't represent the whole situation, they are a vocal minority though.
I keep the name out of the post for that reason, I was posting an example of improved tolerance and respect not saying that my country is a role model in every aspect.
Our situation is also so weird and particular that isn't easy to understand from the outside as the guardian journalist should have known.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
What privilege?
Tesseract
Banned
"Not seeing race" is neither revolutionary nor color blind - there are no human races, it's scientific fact. The whole concept is complete bullshit and was heavily promoted by pseudo-scientists and racist quacks roughly a century ago as a basis to promote the idea of superiority and inferiority based on skin color. Europe mostly gave up on the concept after WW2 as it was one of the concepts behind the Nazi regime's arian superiority garbage, but the US clung to it, probably to continue legitimizing institutional racism.
Realizing that we're essentially all the same, and that skin color is genetically not all that different from hair color, is probably the most important step if we ever want to get rid of racism in my opinion.
Realizing that we're essentially all the same, and that skin color is genetically not all that different from hair color, is probably the most important step if we ever want to get rid of racism in my opinion.
way more
Member
Agreed. I don't see race and I've never had to deal with racism in my life.
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yeah that's exactly what this is about, you clearly understand this discussion mmhmm
wouldn't your posts be jingoist?
He's trolling.
I prefer to treat people the same before seeing people the same. Your idea sounds great in theory but it doesn't at all reflect how our society is currently, and it doesn't translate into constructive action.
We have to acknowledge the racial divides, find the fault lines, and come to understand them before we can ever fix the issue, never mind seeing passed it.
Austriacus
Member
I wish i could be completely colorblind. I really dont like multiculturalism. I hope in 100 years we have mingled between each other so much i wont have to worry about this anymore.
Discotheque
Banned
fuck that. imagine if the world had only one type of culture/food/language.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
This is pretty much the internet nowadays.
World peace would be worth it IMO.
Discotheque
Banned
this is entirely selfish of me. but i would not give up precious precious enchiladas, biryani, curries, kimchi, noodles etc. for world peace
Austriacus
Member
Yes, i imagine that perfect world constantly. Sadly it will take generations to come. You can still have all the things from all cultures, just make it part of all humanity and not a subset of people.
multiculturalism is good and useful, especially if it's territorial.
Colorblindness, in this context, means that you don't base your judgement of a person on his ethnic features or cultural background, it doesn't mean that there shouldn't be differences.
It would be awful and it would lead to cultural and scientific stagnation.
Fortunately the worldwide consensus is to preserve cultural heritage and to keep it alive when possible and useful.
@Austriacus:
we have thousands of languages, dialects, food recipes, traditions, music styles, literatures, societes etc..
They are already part of all humanity because they are still used to date.
In your perfect world only few aspects from some cultures will be picked and the other will be forgotten just as it has always happened with exctinct civilizations, something made it to this date, the rest is material of reasearch by historians.
Austriacus
Member
Multiculturalism is basically the principal reason for conflict and hate between humans.
Id rather us lose all our culture and stagnate scientifically than keep the hate that flows through humanity the way it is now.
Imagine the millions, even billions of people whose life could be saved if conflict was reduced in this way.
real_slime
Banned
I've thought this before. Basically along assimilation lines, but I realised (thankfully before it having to be pointed out to me in a humiliating way), that the idea of having 'one culture', even if it is comprised of elements of many former disparate cultures, denies people their right to cultural specificity and self-determination.
Even within cultures that have existed alongside each other for decades and decades, and are broadly similar, you're never going to achieve some homogenous Star Trek federation culture and it's harmful to try and deny that because it leads to frustrations such as 'why won't these people do the normal thing?!'.
It isn't about assimilating, or even synthesising. I appreciate the desire for inclusion, but the real way to do that is to stop thinking of cultural difference as a reason for social division and thinking of other cultures as less than or strange.
However, what I haven't figured out yet, is how best to deal with cultural practices other ones simply find immoral and against what they believe in on a fundamental level. There's 'why won't these immigrants speak english!!!' (dumb) and there's 'what do we do about women being stoned to death for cheating on their husbands' and 'what do we do about these egregious trangressions of our religious beliefs'.
Basically it doesn't pay to simplify when it comes to the infinite possibilities of human society, and the ultimate simplification of 'one culture' is a misguided hope.
Wiktor
Member
That is fun, but it kind falls apart when he adds brown people to it. Should have just sticked to black one.
All the "[person of color[sic]]" entries imply they are statements made about non white people otherwise, for example, number eight, Im sick of pretending that [people of color[sic]] need special rights and programs just because they arent white. We have problems too, you know, wouldn't really make much sense. Doesn't that imply that white on white racism, for example the "no irish" signs on 1960's Britain or more recently the anti Romanian reports, isn't a thing?
Austriacus
Member
The world is already moving towards a single culture, it doesnt have to be assimilation and it doesnt need to be a complete homogenisation of culture. Just erasing the mayority of cultural differences which are completely useless and can create conflicts would be enough.
PdotMichael
Banned
I guess race means skin color in this context.
Because classificate races in white, black, yellow whatever is random and not scientific. Sadly, it's common and even PC in the USA.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
race is mostly face features. A white guy that looks foreign isn't white etc
Wiktor
Member
Races always were about tradition and pure visual traits, not bilogy. Just look at any dog or cat races. Same deal.
Not to fall into the trap of quoting the dictionary, but race can be described as "a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group "
That's quite a bit more than facial features.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
how do you explain ex yugoslavian countries then?
That's Italy where I originally come from. It happened and a lot of people were outraged because of it. Unfortunately not everyone was, no one is denying that racism exist in Europe. But there are some key differences.
First, I live in Germany. In Germany they will teach you from the get go that there is no such thing as different human races. Categorizing humans makes you a racist.
Second, in Europe you don't have to be black, brown or whatever to face racism. Being a foreigner of any skin colour is enough to be the victim of racism. It reminds me of Nazi Germany and that whole Master Race fiasco.
When I as a European see threads like this where the premise is as simple as the thread title I'm confused. I actually feel a little offended being a (white skinned) victim of racism for my whole life. I think that the problem here is the definition of the word racism. It's obvious that we use it differently.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
I didn't say that was the only definition, just that race is a bit broader than what someone looks like. It's a complex issue and if anything the article in the OP is doing more harm than good by simplifying matters (reducing it to colour).
real_slime
Banned
Well I don't think it's true that the world is moving towards a single culture. There are countless differences between cultures, on a larger scale from continents to countries and then down to urban and rural, and even just districts of cities and towns. What would you say to support the idea we are moving towards one culture, and how would you describe that culture?
Also, what exactly would you define as useless cultural traits, and how would you erase those traits without making the conflicts you describe a hundred times worse?
This is why tolerance and understanding are auspicable. It doesn't happen only to white people but to everyone as we are all different and we have a different past.
The reason is that we are social animals and we have fought each other for millennia to have the best outcome in survival.
Now things are different, we have an ethic and an history behind us. Divisions help tensions but the causes are ignorance and lack of empathy.
The right thing to do is to have a common cultural layer where everyone can feel to be part of and keep multiculturalism. That's what Europe has been trying to do since the European Coal and Steel Community in 1952.
It's not easy but in the next 62 years there have been no wars between the EU countries while in the previous 50 there were many of them, including 2 World Wars.
In my country mostly everyone has several levels of group identity: home neighborhood/town, city, region, country, european and mediterranean, "western culture", human.
Plus many trasversal group identities like language/language group, religion, interests(soccer?), job field, ethnic backgrounds and culture, place where people have been living etc...
Group identity is socially useful, mixing group identities and experience other groups is really helpful towards racism.
The racists usually get obsessed with one or more groups judging others only by their appartenence to others groups.
Ignorance is fuel for racists.
PdotMichael
Banned
Then the question would be how useful is ot to use the concept of races. Pretty sure all black people (or all the other races) in the USA don't form a single social group
Not saying that getting rid of the American concept of races would fix all problems for the various groups but being cricial to the concept shouldn't make you an ignorant or even a racist like the OP says.
Wiktor
Member
I don't see how it would change anything. People love to kill and hate. Take away culture and they will simply find different excuse.
Wiktor
Member
Pretty usefull, as descriptors that is. Same as blonde, brunette, tall, thin, fat etc.
Austriacus
Member
The whole world isnt, but the west is largely moving to one in which the media it consumes, the political odeas it pursues are greatly aligning. Are you sugesting that wr are as multicultural as we were 100 years ago? Have you considered that its only now, in this point in time, that two children from different countries, social clases and educational levels can share the same taste in music, idols and aspirations?
Also, all change is met with oposition. But im sure that you would agree that the traditional way in which women are treated in the middle east could use some changes thst go more in accordance to human rights. Thats the kind of changes i mean.
When console wars go wrong.
PdotMichael
Banned
Bad analogies.
"10 clueless things brunettes say about fat people" - isn't something you can read that often.
The examples are used to describe people not to define a big group.
that's the worldwide common layer forming, but these two children still have very different backgrounds (hopefully they both live in democratic, rich and peaceful country as it should be for everyone - that's not a privilege)
Wiktor
Member
Umm..fat people are definitely a group. Same with blonde women. And the fact is, there are black people, white people and yellow people. We need way to describe their features. You suggesting people should start pretending their skin color doesn't exist? That won;t work. You want new terms? Also won't work. Look at mental disabilities. Their traditional names have been changed couple decades ago because they started to be used as slurs, but this still didn't help and some of the new ones were turned into slurs too.
In the end I think it will be easier to remove the baggage from existing names than trying to ignore them or invent new ones.
Austriacus
Member
Sure, but the background they posses has far more similarities than ever. An interconnected world like today is something that has never been experienced by humans. I believe little by little consecutive generations are gona drop willingly their national indentities and eventially lose it all the way to their surrounding culture.
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