9 clueless things white people say when confronted with racism

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Are you really gonna sit here and compare the expression "check your privilege" to a slur. You probably mean well but brah

I didn't correctly compare them, but now that you put that out there, the I think yeah. I am gonna sit here and compare the emotional responses of words. People argue that the lingo of the word faggot is not a slur, it's people who are being over dramatic and over sensitive. That word is not a slur, and you can cling to that point if you want to, just as you can cling to that "check your privilege" is "just" an expression.
 
These types of conversations just don't do well on forums. People don't like feeling 'attacked' and told they are wrong. So of course, they have to take up a contrary position.

I had an analogy that had to do with a record spinning way too fast and slinging people into another dimension but I got lost.

These types of conversations just don't do well on forums.

I find Internet conversations lack the "on the spot-ness" of a face to face conversation. On here it's to easy for me to carefully construct a script.** From experience I know life doesn't follow a script. If I tried to hold a conversation in person like I do here my tongue would be tied within 20 seconds.

I hate when someone calls me a "Person of Color". IMO that only makes me feel even further segregated. As for this list, number 6. I'm the one telling my white friends they can say something that's considered racially insensitive.

If I called someone a "Person of Colour" it would make me feel more shitty than calling them black, white, yellow, green or purple. I guess the best course of action is to say "Hey buddy, what's your name?" then run with that.

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In the words of Avenue Q, I guess "Everyone's A Little Bit Racist". Even though I don't want to be racist I know I can be. Sometimes we just shove our foot down our throat. It happens and I don't like it. At the end of the day I'd much rather make a small fool out of my self and learn from my mistakes than put on a fake smile in order to avoid offending.

Reading this thread reminded me of a certain memorable scene in Star Trek: First Contact.

"The line must be drawn here!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3RNsZvdYZQ

I'm sure we all could take something away from that clip. :)

** This post has be carefully scripted by -Minsc-.
 
"If you ignore it, it goes away" should have been number 1.

Every single person who has uttered that statement are remedial, eyeroll/rage inducing twats. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE.
 
I believe the argument is that it shifts focus. It's taking focus from the subject of discussion and instead putting it on the person saying the ignorant thing by focusing on their privilege.


In conversations about issues, I agree, it can easily be used to derail discussion. But I still think discussion of how we communicate about discrimination is important and worth having.

However their privilege is why they didn't realize what they said was ignorant and wrong in the first place. calling that out in anyway you can is important because the person is less likely to make the same mistake in the future if they actually understood you.

It's important to talk about how we have this conversations it's just derailing this one.
 
In the words of Avenue Q, I guess "Everyone's A Little Bit Racist". Even though I don't want to be racist I know I can be. Sometimes we just shove our foot down our throat. It happens and I don't like it. At the end of the day I'd much rather make a small fool out of my self and learn from my mistakes than put on a fake smile in order to avoid offending.

Heh, number four got me curious so I decided to look up the definition of racism.

I really should check the meaning of words before I use them. I guess I should have used "discriminate" instead of the term "racist" when describing myself. Maybe a misunderstanding between the definitions of discrimination and racism is why so many of us put out foot in our mouths when talking about racism.
 
However their privilege is why they didn't realize what they said was ignorant and wrong in the first place. calling that out in anyway you can is important because the person is less likely to make the same mistake in the future if they actually understood you.
Understood, just clarifying what I think they were getting at, not agreeing with it. I think privilege is an important and powerful concept to educate with and about -- the bolded is where I try (and am not always successful) to explain the concepts. Education is a powerful tool against discrimination.

It's important to talk about how we have this conversations it's just derailing this one.
That's true. I don't want to further contribute to derailing something worthwhile so I'll drop that. Sorry.
 
"Not seeing race" is neither revolutionary nor color blind - there are no human races, it's scientific fact. The whole concept is complete bullshit and was heavily promoted by pseudo-scientists and racist quacks roughly a century ago as a basis to promote the idea of superiority and inferiority based on skin color. Europe mostly gave up on the concept after WW2 as it was one of the concepts behind the Nazi regime's arian superiority garbage, but the US clung to it, probably to continue legitimizing institutional racism.

Realizing that we're essentially all the same, and that skin color is genetically not all that different from hair color, is probably the most important step if we ever want to get rid of racism in my opinion.

What you are espousing is colorblindness, and ahistorical to boot. You are right about one thing: Race doesn't really exist in a sense that there are meaningful differences between people of different races. But race does still exist as a social matter, and until those differences are nonexistent it's a bit ... premature to start asking people to act as if those inequalities don't matter. We make snap judgments based on race that we aren't entirely conscious of. I've posted about this a lot, so rather than try to say it anew:

A 2002 study found that individuals with more Afrocentric features were judged by college undergraduates to have stereotypical African American traits; a 2005 study found that observers believed that individuals with more Afrocentric features were more likely than others to behave aggressively. A 2004 study had 182 police officers examine photographs of male students and employees. Half the participants were shown white faces and the other half were shown black faces. The officers were split into thirds: One third judged the stereotypicality of the person's face; how stereotypical the face was of people of that person's race. The second third, told that some of the faces might be criminals, was asked to indicate whether a person looked criminal. The last third was asked to rate attractiveness on a scale. Each officer only did one of the measures. More black faces than white faces were believed to appear criminal. Black faces who were rated about the median for stereotypical black features were significantly more likely to be judged criminal than black faces that were rated below the median. The study authors concluded that the police officers thought black faces looked more criminal, and "the more black, the more criminal."

There have also been several studies which have demonstrated that individuals with more stereotypical black features are punished more severely after controlling for race and criminal history. This is even true within races; whites with more stereotypical features associated with black people received longer sentences than other white people. This has been shown both in artificial laboratory or experimental settings, as well as by analysis of inmate records.

II think that there's also white privilege in areas that are caused by cultural narratives that effect black people in particular; people in studies become more likely to identify black men as dangerous and carrying weapons and more likely to identify white men as safe - even when the white men are actually holding a weapon; people become increasingly punitive as a defendant's skin tone becomes darker; or people become increasingly negative about lyrics when told they are rap lyrics (as opposed to the lyrics of white folk singers they actually originate from); or how when asked to close their eyes and picture a drug user, ninety-five percent of respondents imagined a black man and only five percent imagined someone from another race; or how after watching a news story about a crime in which no picture was shown and the race of the accused was not stated, sixty percent claimed to have recalled seeing a picture, and seventy percent of those believed that the man they saw was black; or the inconsistent way that white and black students are treated for similar sexual or aggressive behaviors due to assigning an "intentionality" to black students' actions that weren't attributed to white students (and a good example of the way gender can be racialized). White people benefit from what is often an unconscious, sort of benefit of the doubt that is not afforded to black people.

And the sort of diffuse narratives that cause disparities in racial phenomena like these that effect all of us at a subconscious level - we begin making these judgments about race when we first see a person before we are even consciously aware of them - and manifest in the form of stories and rhetorical devices that white people use to talk about race or racial outcomes that are constructed to avoid making these issues about race.

We've been having the "we're all the same" narrative for a long time - the arguments for black racial inferiority have shifted from biological arguments to cultural arguments. Before, black people were less equal because of biological and moral inferiority; now black people are less equal because of natural occurring phenomena (e.g. the argument that segregation occurs because different people just like to live with people like themselves) or because of cultural limitations (e.g. the argument that black people don't value education, or don't conform to norms in dress / language, or do not have work ethic). There are also the human biodiversity racists, but I don't really take them as a dominant ideology.

Anyway, I also have reading suggestions for you! Well, Ta-Nehisi Coates does. I haven't read these yet, but they sound like just the thing:

The myth of any such constant was exposed to me at Howard University. I was a history major—and yes, I am bragging about this, and not at all humbly. In all my history classes we were treated to the dizzying taxonomy of race—mulatto and Italian, creole and quadroon, Jew and mestizo. This terminology would change quickly, change back, and then change again. And borders would change with them. Not even continents were constant. "Africa begins at the Pyrenees," we read in The Races of Europe.

No work more influenced my own thinking on this more than St. Clair Drake's two-volume work Black Folk Here and There. Drake is better known for his study of Chicago, Black Metropolis, a book that informed the profile I wrote of Michelle Obama and, to some extent, my work on reparations. But Black Folk was the first book that made the argument that sticks with me to this day—that there is nothing particularly "natural" about viewing people with darker skin and curlier hair as inferior. Drake surveys all perceptions of people with darker skin, curlier hair, or both across history. He finds very little consistency and concludes that racism, as we know it, is basically a product of the slave trade, which is to say the seizure of power.

Other books confirmed Drake's basic insight to me—Allison Blakely's Blacks in the Dutch World, Nell Irvin Painter's The History of White People. If you can get your hands on it I also would recommend The Image of the Black in Western Art, which is both expensive and priceless. It's fascinating to see how black people were viewed before we decided that African ancestry made you, by God or science, property. For a energetic rebuttal (which I find ultimately unconvincing) see Winthrop Jordan's White Over Black.

The import of this all came home for me many years later in Barbara and Karen Fields's Racecraft. The book is a collection of essay, and is sometimes hard to follow, but its basic insight is brilliant. Basically, Americans talk about "race" but not "racism," and in doing that they turn a series of "actions" into a "state." This is basically true of all our conversations of this sort, left and right. You can see this in all our terminology—racial justice, racial quotas, racial discrimination, etc. But this language is ahistorical, and it obscures the current conflict. Affirmative action, for instance, is not intended to remedy plunder (action) but to aid "women and people of color" (state) or produce "diversity" (another state). And the benefits of affirmative action are not people who have been plundered, but "the black race."

I picked up Racecraft recently, though I haven't read it yet. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm sorry I was talking about racial profiling.
Your info still are interesting, you seem to live in a boiling pot of racial tensions. No sense of community whatsoever am I right?

I've heard about many bad things done by police in the us, so many that I will be scared from the customs when arriving.
We all know how important is to hire and train good police officers. Here most of the policeman/women tende to sympathize to the political right, therefore it's more common to have racist policemen.
We have had many increscious episodes of beating and omicides perpetrated by the legal forces but most of them where towards white italian people.
I think that, in the case of the police, racism is not the cause but a consequence of bad police management(hiring racists, bad training etc..)
Fixing that will probably solve many racial tensions, is that possible?

I don't think that the issue with law enforcement and racism in the United States is entirely because of bad training and individual racist cops; it also has much more to do with the almost entire absence of checks against racism (because the Supreme Court has spent decades narrowly interpreting citizens' rights in encounters with law enforcement, and made it effectively impossible to achieve standing in order to sue for discrimination), and bad policy decisions.

You should read both of these books:

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I also made a topic about the first book here; it has links to a series of blog posts talking about aspects of the book. It can be treated as something of a Cliff Notes version, though it's still worth reading through the whole book.
 
What you are espousing is colorblindness, and ahistorical to boot. You are right about one thing: Race doesn't really exist in a sense that there are meaningful differences between people of different races. But race does still exist as a social matter, and until those differences are nonexistent it's a bit ... premature to start asking people to act as if those inequalities don't matter. We make snap judgments based on race that we aren't entirely conscious of. I've posted about this a lot, so rather than try to say it anew:
Premature? Maybe. But as I said, I don't think the current discussion is more helpful or productive in the long run. And ignoring color != colorblind. I see it, I simply don't give a shit. Nobody should. Racism is just a form of xenophobia. Singling out skin color is already a huge mistake, people hate everything that's different, and we love to categorize and discriminate. It's human nature, it'll never go away and happens everywhere. Black people are slaughtering black people in Africa because they're from a different tribe or whatever, white people are hating other white people for seemingly arbitrary reasons as well (country of origin, language, religion). White people got persecuted by white people for hair color, too - it's not about skin color, it never was. There is no "race", the idiotic and illusory concept of race is just a convenient excuse. Just like red hair was a convenient and equally "scientific" excuse during the inquisition. It's all garbage.
 
I think the disconnect is some people see "seeing race" as something people do to other-ize in a negative way when people posting in this thread are trying to explain that it's actually about respecting a person's culture and history. We're not having the same conversation.
 
"If you ignore it, it goes away" should have been number 1.

Every single person who has uttered that statement are remedial, eyeroll/rage inducing twats. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE.

"Morgan Freeman said it, and he speaks for all Black people"
 
I hate when someone calls me a "Person of Color". IMO that only makes me feel even further segregated. As for this list, number 6. I'm the one telling my white friends they can say something that's considered racially insensitive.

I prefer minority over PoC, but I have no strong feelings against it.

Also, just because you let your friends say those things doesn't mean they can say it around anybody.
 
As for this list, number 6. I'm the one telling my white friends they can say something that's considered racially insensitive.
It's one thing when you are with buddies to bust each others balls and call each other racist names. It is totally another thing for someone to think just because they're friends with someone they are now part of the secret club and have license to speak like that with everybody. Kust because your buddies do it with you, they should be smart enough to know it isn't cool with everybody.

For instance my buddies and I are extremely diverse. One is from Jamaica, another is black from the Southern US, one is Indian, another is Native Canadian, one is Irish and then there is myself who is as mixed as you get (although I simply identify as Canadian). We do nothing but call eachother by our racial names, and heckle relentlessly when ever we compete. It's hilarious and we all have a good time. However if someone I didn't know is to call me white trash I'd fucking knock them out, and I have.
 
I have a question for anyone in this thread. I have a belief that I have adhered to for a while now and I have yet to find anyone challenge it effectively in my every day life, which I don't like. I was wondering if someone would be able to respectfully and maturely have a discussion with me regarding this and try to break it down for me from a different perspective. I am always trying to evolve and grow as a person, if you feel I am wrong please help me understand your position without all the condescending bullshit posters try and get away with here. I am well aware I may be out of line.

So anyways, I consider my stance on this subject to be "geographically racist", best way I can describe. I live in a multicultural area with people from all over the world. I've always had an issue (working on it/therapy) with general misanthropy and lack of patience for other people. This has gotten tremendously better over the past few years but its still an issue and I find it applies equally to all races. For example, we have filipinos here and I don't have patience for them because they don't respect your personal space, are rude when you speak to them (I work in retail) and can never seem to do their jobs effectively (various restaurant positions all over town). I do not attribute this to skin color though, instead I attribute it to the area they are from and how life is lived there, hence being "geographically racist". I don't like it. If a white, black, asian, or indian person were born and raised in that same area, then moved here after while still retaining those same characteristics I would have the same perspective. I just don't like how they do things there, has nothing to do with their skin color. The same thing applies if it were reversed, if any race were to be brought up and raised in my home country with similar ideals and behaviours I would not have a problem. I mean, even the place I live, the people here are very selfish and materialistic. I don't give a shit what your skin color is, if you behave this way I will say the same thing about anyone. If you say you're from *insert my town* I will roll my eyes and have prejudice. Sometimes that area is comprised mostly of one race and it appears racist, but its not my intention.

So what do you guys think? I feel im just being realistic here, I don't think of myself as racist but I'm not sure if my stance is out of line. To me it still appears as a general contempt for people as a whole. I fully expect half assed, childish, and pretentious posts but I will try my best to disregard those and look forward to any further discussion.
 
I have a question for anyone in this thread. I have a belief that I have adhered to for a while now and I have yet to find anyone challenge it effectively in my every day life, which I don't like. I was wondering if someone would be able to respectfully and maturely have a discussion with me regarding this and try to break it down for me from a different perspective. I am always trying to evolve and grow as a person, if you feel I am wrong please help me understand your position without all the condescending bullshit posters try and get away with here. I am well aware I may be out of line.

So anyways, I consider my stance on this subject to be "geographically racist", best way I can describe. I live in a multicultural area with people from all over the world. I've always had an issue (working on it/therapy) with general misanthropy and lack of patience for other people. This has gotten tremendously better over the past few years but its still an issue and I find it applies equally to all races. For example, we have philipinos here and I don't have patience for them because they don't respect your personal space, are rude when you speak to them (I work in retail) and can never seem to do their jobs effectively (various restaurant positions all over town). I do not attribute this to skin color though, instead I attribute it to the area they are from and how life is lived there, hence being "geographically racist". I don't like it. If a white, black, asian, or indian person were born and raised in that same area, then moved here after while still retaining those same characteristics I would have the same perspective. I just don't like how they do things there, has nothing to do with their skin color. The same thing applies if it were reversed, if any race were to be brought up and raised in my home country with similar ideals and behaviours I would not have a problem. I mean, even the place I live, the people here are very selfish and materialistic. I don't give a shit what your skin color is, if you behave this way I will say the same thing about anyone. If you say you're from *insert my town* I will roll my eyes and have prejudice. Sometimes that area is comprised mostly of one race and it appears racist, but its not my intention.

So what do you guys think? I feel im just being realistic here, I don't think of myself as racist but I'm not sure if my stance is out of line. To me it still appears as a general contempt for people as a whole. I fully expect half assed, childish, and pretentious posts but I will try my best to disregard those and look forward to any further discussion.
You can't just be racist but then wrap it up in a way that preemptively discredits anyone who's going to try to disagree with you on this.

Your general observations of Filipinos could be said of anyone from any race or location.
 
I wonder, do people like Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington ever experience racism?

I somehow doubt it. add will smith to that list

I never seen them as a black person/people, if that makes sense

do you think if you asked them, they would say they haven't?


they have both talked about their experiences as black actors at length
 
You can't just be racist but then wrap it up in a way that preemptively discredits anyone who's going to try to disagree with you on this.

Your general observations of Filipinos could be said of anyone from any race or location.
Not to me though? I don't see those same characteristics in other races (general consensus in the area I live)? I live in a thriving oil and gas industry so we have many different people coming here to work. Asian restaurants in my town are brilliant, great service and food. Black people are very polite and friendly, a pleasure to speak with. Again I attribute this to where they are from, how they are brought up and how they behave. Ive had white people come from those same places and behave the same way, nothing changes.

And to further clarify, im speaking about people who have recently moved from their home country. Not a specific race who has lived here their entire lives or majority of them and already adopt similar ways of life as mine.
 
I wonder, do people like Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington ever experience racism?

I somehow doubt it. add will smith to that list

I never seen them as a black person/people, if that makes sense

Morgan Freeman has to be a clueless idiot to say something like that and believe that racism isn't affecting him today. In half his roles, he plays the magic negro that always helps the white hero out of a jam. I believe it was Along Came a Spider that was adapted from a book but removed all romance/sex between Morgan's black detective character and his white female counterpart in the movie version. The guy has action chops and doesn't have the catalog of leading roles that white contemporaries of his age and caliber have. I guess he and younger black actors should "continue ignoring" these pervasive problems in media and hope things just magically improve.
 
I wonder, do people like Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington ever experience racism?

I somehow doubt it. add will smith to that list

I never seen them as a black person/people, if that makes sense

In the industry they work in and how old Morgan Freeman is, most definitely.
Here is Denzel Talking about an experience.
http://youtu.be/Qy0zJTuiVjU

What do you mean you don't see them as being black?
 
I wonder, do people like Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington ever experience racism?

I somehow doubt it. add will smith to that list

I never seen them as a black person/people, if that makes sense

That doesn't make sense to me
 
This is bad. Like Buzzfeed bad. Don't know why the post title has to include "white people" as opposed to "people." Racism is a much more complex issue than a bullet-pointed "Top 10" list.
 
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