Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 10: Against the Odds, We Choose to Hype!

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Red Arremer said:
I don't know if it's laziness to look at the 20 character roster and say "Well, we have 20 characters for this game, we could add one unique character (that was planned to be Dedede) or we could add 6 characters that share the same movesets with already existing ones for virtually the same development time".

Personally, I don't think it's lazy to want to make more fans happy by beefing up the roster with 6 instead of 1 character, even if those 6 are clones.
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I don't begrudge the characters' inclusions at all, but if you are gonna take the time to add more characters, I'd prefer that they get the same amount of attention as everyone else, especially when merited. I'm not anti-clone, but I don't think this is an unreasonable opinion.

It doesn't matter now though, we got who we got.
 
K-A-Deman said:
...

Y'know, I can respect Project M and the work they did, and these costumes are really quite awesome. But it really does leave a bad taste in my mouth when a mod is an expected threshold for the official work to exceed. It's like the argument on emulation and how the free program is considered superior to an official one. No duh; free means free of obligation, free of restriction, and free of profit. they're outside the boundaries that the official work are held to, so they can do whatever they damn well please.

And maybe I'm just letting my general distaste for the competitive scene speak, but It really does feel like this is starting to seriously encroach on Nintendo's work, which will inevitably force a line to be drawn. If Nintendo want's to implement costumes like these now, they're legally required to acknowledge and confront Project M with a cease and desist. From there it can only get worse until Project M is forced to change or shut down, which will once again put Nintendo into the unfavorable light for following a legal responsibility.

Maybe I'm just paranoid and I'm adopting an attitude of 'want for a nail', but there's no denying that the more work that gets put into Project M, the closer the inevitable confrontation will draw.
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I think you are overreacting. And Nintendo is very aware of it. The Project M team goes out their way to make sure they don't reach into Smash 4's bag. Making the Brawl disc worth playing only helps Nintendo out, not hurts them.

And no, it's nothing like emulation.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
We aren't getting Ghirahim. This is just like pre-Brawl when people were all about Midna. Zelda is a huge series with staples who appear in various forms throughout the series. We will never get a one-off character over a series regular, or version of that regular.
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Well, Shiek exists. :P

Though I understand why they're keeping her around after the Melee attachment.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
We aren't getting Ghirahim. This is just like pre-Brawl when people were all about Midna. Zelda is a huge series with staples who appear in various forms throughout the series. We will never get a one-off character over a series regular, or version of that regular.
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Honestly I could see Impa being a newcomer for Zelda in the next Smash Bros game, assuming her unique moveset in Hyrule Warriors gets brought over into Zelda WiiU or another future Zelda game. I've felt she'd be perfect DLC material since they first revealed her for Hyrule Warriors
 
Papercuts said:
Well, Shiek exists. :P

Though I understand why they're keeping her around after the Melee attachment.
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That and Sheik is an extension of Zelda's character. She only appeared in one game, sure, but the Sheikah lore is throughout the series and, again, Sheik is still Princess Zelda, you know?

She's not like Hilda, for example.
 
K-A-Deman said:
And maybe I'm just letting my general distaste for the competitive scene speak, but It really does feel like this is starting to seriously encroach on Nintendo's work, which will inevitably force a line to be drawn. If Nintendo want's to implement costumes like these now, they're legally required to acknowledge and confront Project M with a cease and desist. From there it can only get worse until Project M is forced to change or shut down, which will once again put Nintendo into the unfavorable light for following a legal responsibility.
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While I agree with your sentiment for the most part (Project M better watch that they're not stepping on any toes with characters now that we know for fact that the Gematsu leak isn't gospel), Nintendo doesn't have to address the existence of Project M if they wanted to use any of their ideas for costumes, and Project M generally does a good job of picking costumes that probably wouldn't be used in SSB proper. The things they pick tend to be pretty loosely tied to their respective canon or more based on fanon.

But even if Sakurai's team decided they really wanted Pajama Ness, it doesn't mean that they've got to shut down Project M to use it, and the Project M team is probably smart enough to know to keep their mouths quiet about whatever sentiments they may have toward that.
 
Berordn said:
While I agree with your sentiment for the most part (Project M better watch that they're not stepping on any toes with characters now that we know for fact that the Gematsu leak isn't gospel), Nintendo doesn't have to address the existence of Project M if they wanted to use any of their ideas for costumes, and Project M generally does a good job of picking costumes that probably wouldn't be used in SSB proper. The things they pick tend to be pretty loosely tied to their respective canon or more based on fanon.

But even if Sakurai's team decided they really wanted Pajama Ness, it doesn't mean that they've got to shut down Project M to use it, and the Project M team is probably smart enough to know to keep their mouths quiet about whatever sentiments they may have toward that.
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I agree with most of this, sans the first part. The team does watch what they do, and Project M existed well before the Gematsu leak. They don't make their choices for extra costumes, or characters based on that crap.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
That and Sheik is an extension of Zelda's character. She only appeared in one game, sure, but the Sheikah lore is throughout the series and, again, Sheik is still Princess Zelda, you know?

She's not like Hilda, for example.
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True, though it still has felt a bit weird to me. But yeah, I don't see people like Ghirahim or Demise making it. The only ones that ever felt possible have been Impa and Tetra since they've been in a few iterations.

BassForever said:
Honestly I could see Impa being a newcomer for Zelda in the next Smash Bros game, assuming her unique moveset in Hyrule Warriors gets brought over into Zelda WiiU or another future Zelda game. I've felt she'd be perfect DLC material since they first revealed her for Hyrule Warriors
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After this whole Lucina thing I've actually been thinking of other clones they could add, and I could potentially see them pulling Impa in playing like Shiek.
 
Jaeger said:
I agree with most of this, sans the first part. The team does watch what they do, and Project M existed well before the Gematsu leak. They don't make their choices for extra costumes, or characters based on that crap.
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I'm mostly referring to their desire to keep their noses out of whatever Nintendo's got in the pipeline for SSB4. If Sami (who appears in Brawl as a sticker and is therefore fair game to them) was in development at some point because it seemed all but impossible that she'd be in Smash 4 with the leak seeming certain to come true but ended up appearing in the final game, they'd have to shut that down or face some actual ramifications.

I'm sure they're being very careful to not do anything that would make Nintendo want to shut them down, but costumes probably don't bother them in the slightest.
 
Berordn said:
I'm mostly referring to their desire to keep their noses out of whatever Nintendo's got in the pipeline for SSB4. If Sami (who appears in Brawl as a sticker and is therefore fair game to them) was in development at some point because it seemed all but impossible that she'd be in Smash 4 with the leak seeming certain to come true but ended up appearing in the final game, they'd have to shut that down or face some actual ramifications.

I'm sure they're being very careful to not do anything that would make Nintendo want to shut them down, but costumes probably don't bother them in the slightest.
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I think they get some leg room honestly. As long as they don't break the rules they set for themselves (no backporting characters, no including characters not already someway in brawl), I don't see Nintendo shutting them down. Nintendo doesn't want to piss off a bunch of Smash fans right before a new Smash game comes out.
 
Berordn said:
While I agree with your sentiment for the most part (Project M better watch that they're not stepping on any toes with characters now that we know for fact that the Gematsu leak isn't gospel), Nintendo doesn't have to address the existence of Project M if they wanted to use any of their ideas for costumes, and Project M generally does a good job of picking costumes that probably wouldn't be used in SSB proper. The things they pick tend to be pretty loosely tied to their respective canon or more based on fanon.

But even if Sakurai's team decided they really wanted Pajama Ness, it doesn't mean that they've got to shut down Project M to use it, and the Project M team is probably smart enough to know to keep their mouths quiet about whatever sentiments they may have toward that.
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Like I said, maybe I'm just being paranoid and seeing dots and lines where there's none. My concern mainly stems from willful negligence being cited by some theoretical instigator to cause severe legal headaches for Nintendo in the future.

Again, I'm almost assuredly being overly paranoid, I'm just voicing what this makes me think of.
 
Hours Left said:
I would still contribute that to laziness, if not on the development team, then on the execs in charge. I don't really have a problem with clone characters, but I'm not gonna pretend I wouldn't like to see the majority of them be made more unique.

As for Lucina specifically, I understand why she is the way she is, which further backs my theory that she was a late addition.
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Well, Melee was an (almost) GC launch title, so they likely didn't want to delay it, especially with no other Mario game near launch aside from Luigi's Mansion.

Red Arremer said:
I don't know if it's laziness to look at the 20 character roster and say "Well, we have 20 characters for this game, we could add one unique character (that was planned to be Dedede) or we could add 6 characters that share the same movesets with already existing ones for virtually the same development time".

Personally, I don't think it's lazy to want to make more fans happy by beefing up the roster with 6 instead of 1 character, even if those 6 are clones.
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Is there even any source about Dedede being the alternative to the clones?

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1211/index.html

The update that talked about the reasoning for the "Model Change Characters" in Melee only said that they had originally planned about 16 characters, but decided to raise the number after seeing the demand of the fans, and the clones were a way to save time by reusing animation and code.

I know that it has also been stated that Dedede was cut from Melee elsewhere, but has Dedede being an alternative to the clones actually been stated somewhere?
 
BassForever said:
We've had Dark Link, Dark Toon Link, Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Shadow Mario, Mr L, Shadow Queen Peach, Black Yoshi, and Shadow Diddy Kong, honestly Dark Meta Knight and Dark Kirby don't really seem that weird. At the rate Nintendo's going you could potentially make an entire fighting game out of the dark/evil versions of characters.
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It's more that Meta Knight is already a vaguely evil rival to Kirby. It's like if they made a Dark Shadow Mario or Dark Dark Pit.
 
theprodigy said:
Pichu will be brought back as a Pikachu clone #believe


:P
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Or an alt
Zys5vCQ.png
 
09E3X18l.png


I'd lose my shit if Birdo gets in as a Yoshi Clone, in a good way.

Just switch out the tongue moves with a rip-off of Kirby's suction ability, and switch around the voice samples, and voilà!
 
I'm more than happy with the roster as is, but I'm still hopeful that of these three might have scraped in:

1. Isaac (Golden Sun)
2. Mewtwo (Pokemon)
3. Ridley (Metroid)
 
Hatchtag said:
I think they get some leg room honestly. As long as they don't break the rules they set for themselves (no backporting characters, no including characters not already someway in brawl), I don't see Nintendo shutting them down. Nintendo doesn't want to piss off a bunch of Smash fans right before a new Smash game comes out.
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That's basically what I was trying to say, they've given themselves a lot of room to breathe and nothing they're doing is illegal, they're pretty much in the clear as long as they stick to their original guidelines.
 
NeonZ said:
Is there even any source about Dedede being the alternative to the clones?

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1211/index.html

The update that talked about the reasoning for the "Model Change Characters" in Melee only said that they had originally planned about 16 characters, but decided to raise the number after seeing the demand of the fans, and the clones were a way to save time by reusing animation and code.

I know that it has also been stated that Dedede was cut from Melee, but has Dedede being an alternative to the clones actually been stated somewhere?
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Sort of.
Here's how it went, iirc
>Sakurai planning on Marth
>Sakurai isn't sure they'll get permission Marth, sketches up Dedede moveset just in case
>Sakurai gets permission
>Sakurai decides to add clones
>Sakurai says in hindsight that Dedede probably could've been added instead of the clones using roughly the same amount of time the clones took

Don't have a source at the moment, but I'm sure someone will post the source soon.
 
Hours Left said:
It doesn't matter now though, we got who we got.
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Basically where I'm at now. I was complaining about Lucina earlier but on the whole I'm very happy with the roster. Even though I'm severely anti-clone, it's not that bad considering all the characters I personally like are well represented.
 
zroid said:
Or an alt
Zys5vCQ.png
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Hey hey

no more of that. Don't wanna end up like that other guy...lol.

Random topic, but for real--are there people who really think any of the original Smash roster will be cut? Right now all that's left are Jigglypuff and Ness, right? I just don't see that happening.
 
Tripon said:
I might start another Rosalina-Daisy war, but these are damn funny.



A new princess enters the stage!


And Zelda wants some booty. :O
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WFT's gesture on the far right is perfect. Though she can't exactly complain, given her male version's complete lack of crotch.
 
Lucina being a clone isn't that bad...

We've currently got 12 new unique characters with very diverse move-sets, including the Mii Fighters as their own character. And more to come probably.

64 had 11 unique characters, Melee had 8, Brawl had 15, so Smash 4 is doing pretty well for itself.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
We aren't getting Ghirahim. This is just like pre-Brawl when people were all about Midna. Zelda is a huge series with staples who appear in various forms throughout the series. We will never get a one-off character over a series regular, or version of that regular.
Click to expand...

This just reminded me...

We could still get Impa as a Sheik clone. Impa is the only Zelda character besides already deconfirmed Tingle that would make sense.

Unless they're really going with Toon Zelda...
 
Watch Da Birdie said:
Lucina being a clone isn't that bad...

We've currently got 12 new unique characters with very diverse move-sets, including the Mii Fighters as their own character. And more to come probably.

64 had 11 unique characters, Melee had 8, Brawl had 15, so Smash 4 is doing pretty well for itself.
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The definition of clone is pretty loose. Is Jigglypuff a clone of Kirby? If Wolf is a clone of Fox, then yeah.
 
NeonZ said:
Well, if she received an unique moveset, they'd have to take inspiration from her battle animations. Several of Marth's animations do, even if many are original too, same goes to Ike.

Of course, I guess she could have been just a Marth clone or whatever. But, if she were to get an original moveset, her original appearance would give much better material for an unique character than Chrom's.



No transformations though. That basically kills the class changing concept. At best, we could have gotten Great Lord Chrom with the Falchion and a lance rather than Robin.
.
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while i do agree that if lyn was a character a lot of her battle animations would probably be used. I do also think that a lot of her animations will also be based and inspired from marths and ikes animation as well.

and while i do agree that the class change concept would be ruined by no transformation characters it doesnt necessarily mean chrom cant use said items really since robins using dark magic when his class cant (of course u can make the excuse of lol he got shadowgift but i digress) but of course you could make the argument that would just go against a lot of the games core :T lol
 
BassForever said:
With his comment of a few videos left expecting more then 2-3 is being unrealistic, and I'm still going to give him some benefit on the grounds that he got 8/11 right. Yes he was wrong on it being Chrom, but he was right on it being a FE:A character. Let's just say for a second Monday had been Shulk like many of us expected and then next we got Chorus Men with the final reveal being Robin and Lucina, we'd probably go 10/11 with slight misinformation but a genuine leak from some point in development. Call me a negative nancy but I need something more then getting the FE:A character wrong to be fully convinced that his second list is completely made up. Once Takamaru/Ridley/Dixie/KRool/Blaziken/Mike/etc get confirmed then I'll get a bit more excited, until then I expect 2 more newcomers being Shulk and a Rhythm Heaven rep.



I think sex first death later when it comes to that
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He was wrong on 3 accounts, he was wrong with the FE A rep, AND the amount of FE A reps, he was wrong with Shulk being 100%, its clear that he probably only has a vague idea of the characters or made up stuff to compliment what he did have, judging by his "Say hello to Shulk for me" garbage he seems like the type to make some things up to watch the chaos.

I noticed that the last few on his list were clearly not very highly requested fan-favs, and I thought it was odd and hypocritical for Sakurai to add Chrom. Now that Robin and Lucina are confirmed it makes it easier to see that fan request are being met and Sakurai hasn't lost his mind. People are also expecting some kind of retro and I was snooping around Smashboards and apparently there was an image of a posing action figure in the seiza samurai position. Several people remembered it, but Sakurai deleted it, and only it out of the other figure posing images he has up, one also was in a stance that little mac takes.
 
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