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[Chesskid1]

yogscast is the same youtube channel that just announced yogsdiscovery

ie they cover your game on youtube, then they get a percentage of their sales when the game starts selling more

smh

 

[Seanspeed]

They wouldn't be scam artists if they refunded people.
"No obligation"
That's classy scam artist talk after Houdini'ing $500 grand.

Scam artist is pretty harsh. I don't think that's the case here at all. I highly doubt the intent was to get money and then never complete the project, keeping it all themselves.

More likely they got the money, spent it on development, quickly found out they didn't know what they were doing and burned through the money via inefficient management and development direction, and then realized they were fucked.

Its their fault, its a shitty situation, but I think its unfair to call them awful people or whatever.

 

[epmode]

I was under the impression that it's possible to sue if a promised product is not delivered but no one actually does it because the project creators are likely broke at that point and it would be impossible to collect even with a court order. I doubt that's the case for Yogscast!

 

[PdotMichael]

There are great games that has come from Kickstarter or helped immensely by it like Divinity.

This is not one of them but this this was obvious from the beginning ,but even so, some rotten fruits don't invalidate the whole concept.

Divinity had already a large budget before the Kickstarter campaign.

Most of the successful projects are using Kickstarter as weird freemoney/pre-order/advertising platform.
Not that it wrong if they don't scum poeple with it but it's not that most of the projects wouldn't exist without Kickstarter.

 

[ponpo]

You live in Japan, don't you? Crudely film yourself buying a coke from a street drink machine or your crazy electric toilet (don't forget to swear and scream in every video too), throw it up on YouTube under the name 'JAPAN MAN PEWDIEGAIJIN ADVENTURE SEMPAI-KUN' and watch the e-money and e-fame roll in.

You are now obligated to give me an e-percentage.

I already notice this is possible in various social media outlets (*photo of random street in japan* #japan #ramen #conbini #ileftmyheartintokyo) but haven't figured out a way to monetize properly.

But really, 'gamers' seem way too eager to throw money away. I remember when my old youtube account existed and I was just ripping ____ Souls videos from nico and putting them on youtube people were always like 'SET UP A DONATION THING!!' What, why.

 

[gngf123]

We're under no obligation to do anything

Ahaha.

 

[Dipz]

This is why you stay away from Kickstarter.

No obligation to complete it? FUCK YOU.

No, this is why you don't back projects by people who are completely inexperienced in the world of game development that expected to make some large scale MMO for half a mil.

I mean seriously.. This was some YouTube personalities running this thing right?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Yeah its really about picking and choosing with your money and researching who it is going to. This game was sketchy as hell because it was just a bunch of dudes who got famous for playing Minecraft. They aren't going to know how to make a game. It is like giving 500,000 to a bunch of first year college kids who just love to play games. There are tons of people on kickstarter like you said though who make fantastic products, have experience etc.

Pay me $500,000 and I'll make sure you all get a great update of my failing life.

Pledge starts at $15. Jokes aside, I agree with you.

 

[mclem]

Divinity: Original Sin just came out and it's one of the best WRPG in years. It's far from the only good Kickstarter game released. There's always going to be some bad with the good.

Shovel Knight, as well. The past month has given great examples of what Kickstarter *can* do.

 

[lewisgone]

Here is the Reddit post from one of the developers: http://www.reddit.com/r/yogventures/comments/29rduc/winterkewl_games_is_dead/

Given that they made over double what they asked for, it's incredible they had this many problems with development. Organization must have been really poor. I remember hearing about this game when the kickstarter was announced though, and the warning signs were there. The development team had almost no credentials.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

Yogscast said this from a spinning class while turning on the spin dry setting while listening to spinning around by Kyle fucking Minogue

Well I am in under no obligation to kick Yogscast arse but that's actually a good thing

 

[patapuf]

Scam artist is pretty harsh. I don't think that's the case here at all. I highly doubt the intent was to get money and then never complete the project, keeping it all themselves.

More likely they got the money, spent it on development, quickly found out they didn't know what they were doing and burned through the money via inefficient management and development direction, and then realized they were fucked.

Its their fault, its a shitty situation, but I think its unfair to call them awful people or whatever.

Honestly, with the various News about the yogcast and how they handle the monetisation of their YouTube channel and now this, i find it pretty hard to believe they are just a bunch of good harted guys. Especially considering their communication: "no obligation", "peace offerings" ect.

Concerning the devs.. eh.. i'd guess inexperienced Indies overestimating themselves is pretty common.

 

[mattp]

What a bunch of scam artists

Just give people their money back

how do you think that studio stayed in business all this time?
the money is gone lol

 

[MJLord]

I was under the impression that it's possible to sue if a promised product is not delivered but no one actually does it because the project creators are likely broke at that point and it would be impossible to collect even with a court order. I doubt that's the case for Yogscast!

Well they ran out of money. Not put the money in their pockets and laughed all the way to the bank while lightning streaks across the sky. As many people would have you believe.

 

[Coolwhip]

People spending money on shit like this only have themselves to blame.

 

[Staab]

IF they really took half the money from the kickstarter campaign : holy shit !
At least print out those goddamn t-shirts and spend 2hours with a guy who gave you a whooping 5 grand, jesus christ those people should be dragged through the mud for this.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

No, this is why you don't back projects by people who are completely inexperienced in the world of game development that expected to make some large scale MMO for half a mil.

Haha. Yeah that's what I meant to say.

People don't realize how much work goes in game development. It's one of the most tedious work out there. Software creation isn't as easy as people make it to be, especially if they decided to keep half of the fucking money for themselves. Ridiculous.

 

[RandyBobandy]

The only positive is they will never get funded for another project ever again

Spoiler

lol

 

[gogogow]

Divinity: Original Sin just came out and it's one of the best WRPG in years. It's far from the only good Kickstarter game released. There's always going to be some bad with the good.

I haven't and will never help kickstart any game, but yeah. If people want to support devs make their games, they really should donate money to ACTUAL devs who know their shit. Otherwise don't expect a good game or even a finished product. Looking at some of the videos of the game in question, it really looks terrible.

 

[Gintamen]

Well it was from '12, when people donating had big hopes and haven't been shown the true colors of KS yet. Seems like some need a reminder like this one that it can go horribly wrong too.

Must have been nice getting a 100k€ paycheck though.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Well they ran out of money. Not put the money in their pockets and laughed all the way to the bank while lightning streaks across the sky. As many people would have you believe.

They ran out of money cause they pocketed half of it. At least that's what I'm reading here.

 

[Sendou]

If someone is wondering how far they got with the game then here's the most recent dev log showing footage of the game. From February.

 

[Earthpainting]

http://www.reddit.com/r/yogventures/comments/29rduc/winterkewl_games_is_dead/

"Hi everyone,
I can't make any official statements about Yogventures or what is going to happen in the future, but I may be able to shed a little light on what happened to myself and Winterkewl Games.
For all official information please contact The Yogscast at
yogventures@yogscast.com
The Yogscast have been given full ownership of all things Yogventures including all work that's been done up to this point, code, art, project files etc.
For now, I will dispel what I can of the rumor mill though some details are unfortunately going to have to wait for official word from The Yogscast themselves.
So, no one in my family died. I didn't die. My company Winterkewl Games will unfortunately, probably need to go out of business and possibly file for bankruptcy if things get much worse though.
Working on Yogventures was an amazing experience and everyone at Winterkewl Games really wanted to achieve the very lofty goals the game set out to do, but lack of experience in planning and managing a project of this scope proved too much for our little team. As you know we had a total of 6 people working on the project, Winterkewl Games was started to make Yogventures and while every member of the team worked tirelessly to make that a reality, in the end there was simply too much work to do on our own. After the Yogscast have made an official announcement regarding their future plans for the game we will put out a detailed spreadsheet showing where all the funds from the Kickstarter were spent as well as the amounts that I personally invested once those funds ran out.
We always knew that we were going to need to partially fund development ourselves so the lost money is not in any way regretable, however without pre-orders to help offset those costs, eventually, after I had invested innumerable hours and over $25,000.00 of my own money in the game, we had to admit that without more funding we couldn't afford to keep the game going on our own.
I can't speak for the Yogscast and I make no claims that I do, for their own reasons they decided the game wasn't up to the quality they needed it to be to make videos supporting our pre-order business model. That was and is their prerogative and we had no way of influencing that decision other than making the game as best we could with what we had to work with. As I said, we missed milestone after milestone and continued to come up short of the quality expectations and thus the Yogscast didn't want to advertise the pre-orders until it did meet those expectations.
I tried to cut all costs and continue the development even after the heavy losses of 2013 but the stress of trying to work full time and be full time on the game ultimately caused me to ruin my relationship with my wife, and she filed for divorce because I was so obsessed with finishing this game that she couldn't take not seeing me anymore. When the divorce began I suffered a bit of a crisis personally and had to take a medical leave of absence from work. I almost lost my job too.
I'm deeply sorry that despite our best efforts we never reached a level of play-ability that inspired enough confidence from not only the community but even the Yogscast themselves. This is my fault, I agreed to every feature request we got because I didn't want to lose the opportunity. I wanted so badly to make this project a reality I ignored the real-world risks to the point that I almost lost everything and worst of all I let you all down.
I wish more than anything I would have had this fore-knowledge before we ever began this project. If we would have limited the scope and made a solid plan for working more closely with the Yogscast I have every faith this project would have been a real stand-out achievement in the Indie Game world. However, if you promise the world and don't take into account the amount of time and resources you really need to make good on those promises you find yourself in a position where you can't move forward without more funds but you can't generate more funds without moving forward. That's what happened and I had to make the call that it's for the good of the project that we at Winterkewl step aside and allow the game to be taken over by a larger team. That's why we have turned everything over to the Yogscast. With their resources and connections in the gaming world, I still believe this game could be really great.
As I say though, I no longer speak either for the Yogscast or Yogventures, you'll need to contact them and wait for them to be able to sort out what their own plan going forward will be. They trusted us to be able to handle this development and we let them down just as much as we let you down. That fault is totally my own. I honestly believed everything would go to plan, and to be honest, almost nothing actually did.
I'm very sorry to have disappointed, working for you the backers was the most rewarding thing I've ever attempted, and it's also the only project I've ever attempted that we were un-able to finish. I sincerely hope that the project will live on and that Yogventures will one day be a reality as the Yogscast and this great community have a real opportunity that could be something really great.
Thank you all very much for the support, community, and resources to have attempted such a great project. I'm deeply sorry to have let you all down. "

Sounds like a case of inexperience, mismanagement and biting off more than they could chew. These things happen sometimes, but it's more tragic than normal since it's with Kickstarter money. A little confused by the "almost getting fired" part though. Get fired from his own(?) company? Or did he work two jobs?

 

[mclem]

More likely they got the money, spent it on development, quickly found out they didn't know what they were doing and burned through the money via inefficient management and development direction, and then realized they were fucked.

One reason why, while I think I've got an adequate and original idea for a game, I'm reluctant to take it to Kickstarter because I need to make it on my terms at my own pace. Maybe for final polish, but that's a very different kettle of fish.

 

[Chariot]

If someone is wondering how far they got with the game then here's the most recent dev log showing footage of the game. From February.

I can almost feel the 500.000 Dollar in every second.

 

[Rapstah]

Are most failed Kickstarters an indirect thing like this though? People (A) gave money to the developers (B) because they (A) liked the Yogscast Youtube channel (C) and trusted them (C) to give an accurate view of the game the developers (B) were developing. The developers (B) probably presented the project to the Yogscast people (C) as a much more stable thing than it eventually was, but at the same time, the Yogscast people (C) could have been expected to be more sceptical of the project as it was presented to them, the developers (B) could have been more open about how they had no experience in making this type of stuff, and the Yogscast audience who donated (A) could probably have more sceptical about both the other parties (B, C), especially as the developers (B) had no prior experience about this, and as the Yogscast people (C) aren't known for being experts at this type of stuff.

I'm sure most of the really high donations were because the donating person trusted the Yogscast people and not because the donating person trusted the developers.

 

[stevil]

Winterkewl Games really wanted to achieve the very lofty goals the game set out to do, but lack of experience in planning and managing a project of this scope proved too much for our little team," he said.

this is why I never invest in software based kickstarters unless they have a proven track record in my experience 70% of developers crossly overrate them self's and are unable to plan or even estimate a big project.

I always wonder how this works spending 500k and than telling the world your not going to make it. Seems to me that the red flag is way before that happens and I'm sure you would not able to find an new investor once you have proven you are unable to plan and deliver. But perhaps they didn't spent it all as they are planning to give people some stuff

 

[moggio]

Humorous guys at the best of times, but no one can deny that they are slowly becoming the poster child of "guys who have no clue regarding business"

Apart from them making loads of money, you mean?

Yeah, I guess...

What a bunch of scam artists

Just give people their money back

How is it a scam? Do you not understand how Kickstarter works? Winterkewl raised some money but it was not enough to cover the costs of developing the game so they have had to cease development. This is the risk you take when you donate money on Kickstarter. Winterkewl can't refund the money because a) they're not obliged to b) there is no money.

It is actually pretty admirable of the Yogscast to try and at the very least salvage this disaster by offering a similar game to backers for free. They are under no obligation to do this.

 

[Higgins113]

I wish I had a fanbase dumb enough to give me that much money.
Seriously who didn't see this coming

 

[stevil]

If someone is wondering how far they got with the game then here's the most recent dev log showing footage of the game. From February.

looks like the horse game from the minecraft guy

 

[Ikuu]

So he was working fulltime and on the game, with 6 other developers. I wonder how this turned out to be huge failure.

 

[wrowa]

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.)

Kickstarter is kind of shitty service, though. Despite saying that creators are legally obligated to fulfill their promises, Kickstarter never seems to act on that themselves. They are offering the service, they cash the fee, but afterwards the backers are left behind in the rain if something goes wrong.

I think the least they could do is checking projects beforehand on whether or not they're actually achievable. Give your backers at least some safety.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Wait, the developer got divorced from his wife because of crunching a broken game? That's just sad.

And this was not his full time job? Good luck with that.

 

[Dipz]

I just went to this Yogscast site for the first time to see what they were all about. A bunch of people hamming it up and acting like complete idiots for Let's Play videos that actually had considerable view counts on them.

Who watches this crap?

 

[Seanspeed]

Honestly, with the various News about the yogcast and how they handle the monetisation of their YouTube channel and now this, i find it pretty hard to believe they are just a bunch of good harted blockes. Especially considering their communication: "no obligation", "peace offerings" ect.

Concerning the devs.. eh.. i'd guess inexperienced Indies overestimating themselves is pretty common.

Outright saying they have no obligation is a really bad way put things, but I imagine they are trying to cover their asses in a situation that they simply cant win. Its basically the only defense they have at this point. Its not a good one, but its true, and at the very least, hopefully a lot of people will learn something over this.

As for them being good hearted or not, I don't know. I don't know anything about them other than this right here. So if there's other reasons to not give them the benefit the doubt, ok. I think you need to be pretty sure about their intentions before labelling them scam artists, though. That's not a light accusation to make about somebody.

EDIT: Well ok, seems reading above, its not entirely true they have no obligations to fulfill.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Stone Ocean]

how do you think that studio stayed in business all this time?
the money is gone lol

That's Yogscast's problem, not the backers'.

You can't be like "We aren't giving you your game or your money back but we are still going to have dinner with you!"

 

[Lynd7]

KS is about donating money to hopefully get a project made, its like any investment, it has the possibility of not working out. I have no idea about the inner workings or story behind these guys, but people shouldn't really blame KS or its system.

If these guys have managed the project poorly, its pretty unfortunate for those involved and donated though.

 

[Xater]

I wish I had a fanbase dumb enough to give me that much money.
Seriously who didn't see this coming

It's not just fans that are dumb. The Space Engineers guys will share their revenue with them to promote the game. Crazyness!

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Why on earth would someone fund that

.

 

[Hanmik]

I tried to cut all costs and continue the development even after the heavy losses of 2013 but the stress of trying to work full time and be full time on the game ultimately caused me to ruin my relationship with my wife, and she filed for divorce because I was so obsessed with finishing this game that she couldn't take not seeing me anymore. When the divorce began I suffered a bit of a crisis personally and had to take a medical leave of absence from work. I almost lost my job too.
I'm deeply sorry that despite our best efforts we never reached a level of play-ability that inspired enough confidence from not only the community but even the Yogscast themselves. This is my fault, I agreed to every feature request we got because I didn't want to lose the opportunity. I wanted so badly to make this project a reality I ignored the real-world risks to the point that I almost lost everything and worst of all I let you all down.

wtf,,,? the guy lost his wife, allmost lost his job, spend 25.000$ himself on the project... but the worst part is letting the backers down..? get your priorities straight son..

 

[Stone Ocean]

wtf,,,? the guy lost his wife, allmost lost his job, spend 25.000$ himself on the project... but the worst part is letting the backers down..? get your priorities straight son..

Tell them what they want to hear.

 

[PSOreo]

Wow I hope they get the shitstorm they deserve. Then again people need to realise Kickstarter is an investment not a payment for a guaranteed product. This has been troubled from the start. I've always had this feeling they were in it solely for the money. Their recent Youtube partner scheme has been heavily criticised and now this. I await the apologists as its clearly not coming directly from Yogscast.

 

[gofreak]

If someone is wondering how far they got with the game then here's the most recent dev log showing footage of the game. From February.

This is kind of shocking to me.

I mean there's nothing there that you couldn't plug together in an hour with Unity.

I've developed technically far more advanced game prototypes than this and never once thought any of them were good enough to go asking people for money for them. Seen the same in our indie game development thread. Maybe I/we've been 'doing it wrong'.

 

[magnetic]

I kinda dislike Pewdiepie, but at least all he does is make videos and earn his money this way - at least he is earning his money with content, not with some shady Kickstarter.

Those Smosh guys are making their own game as well, so many this is part of larger trend?

http://newmediarockstars.com/2013/08/smosh-food-battle-the-game-raised-250k-from-indiegogo-is-that-way-too-much-for-a-mobile-game/

 

[Ban Puncher]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know you can support the super swell team at Yogscast and help them through this difficult time by purchasing the Yogscast DLC for Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed on Steam for only $4.99!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/264600/

Let's make a difference, Yoggers!

 

[moggio]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know you can support the super swell team at Yogscast and help them through this difficult time by purchasing the Yogscast DLC for Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed on Steam for only $4.99!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/264600/

Let's make a difference, Yoggers!

Well you should as 100% of it goes to charity.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

Fucking Yogcast should refund the backers.They've made plenty of Youtube money. I can't see them not having a deal where they got a cut of any money that this game could have eventually made. These aren't some backroom amateurs, it's a bone fide business.

If I was a backer, I'd sue them to high heaven. That's the business way!

 

[Bomber Bob]

This is why you stay away from Kickstarter.

I only got good stuff from Kickstarter, stuff like FTL, Shovel Knight, etc etc

 

[Sendou]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know you can support the super swell team at Yogscast and help them through this difficult time by purchasing the Yogscast DLC for Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed on Steam for only $4.99!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/264600/

Let's make a difference, Yoggers!

hmm

[...] with 100% of all SEGA and Yogscast proceeds being donated to the SpecialEffect charity.

 

[Ikuu]

Wow I hope they get the shitstorm they deserve. Then again people need to realise Kickstarter is an investment not a payment for a guaranteed product. This has been troubled from the start. I've always had this feeling they were in it solely for the money. Their recent Youtube partner scheme has been heavily criticised and now this. I await the apologists as its clearly not coming directly from Yogscast.

It's not an investment at all.