Eurogamer: Yogscast Kickstarter-Funded Game Folds (Oh Boy..)

_Ryo_ said:
I thought the way Kickstarter worked was if a project failed (as in both the project was not funded and the creators failed to deliver the promised product), it was mandatory to refund all backers?

I'm not exactly sure though.
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Legally and by the terms of service of Kickstarter, yes. However, Kickstarter itself does nothing to enforce giving refunds. All they do is have language enabling legal action in the event that a project is unable to fulfill its promises.

Basically the door is open for the backers to sue the people behind the project for breach of contract.
 
Man Puncher said:
Hey guys just wanted to let you know you can support the super swell team at Yogscast and help them through this difficult time by purchasing the Yogscast DLC for Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed on Steam for only $4.99!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/264600/

Let's make a difference, Yoggers!
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Please read the page description...

The Yogscast’s very own Simon Lane, aka Honeydew, is now available as a brand new DLC character in Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed™ with 100% of all SEGA and Yogscast proceeds being donated to the SpecialEffect charity.
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jimacsb2.png
 
Dipz said:
I just went to this Yogscast site for the first time to see what they were all about. A bunch of people hamming it up and acting like complete idiots for Let's Play videos that actually had considerable view counts on them.

Who watches this crap?
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Who do you think? Kids love that stuff. It's why PewDiePie is the channel with the most subscribers on all of YouTube. The Yogscast is the most subscribed YouTube channel in the UK.

This is incredibly shady, they need to be providing refunds for this.
 
Xater said:
It's not just fans that are dumb. The Space Engineers guys will share their revenue with them to promote the game. Crazyness!
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That's just good business sense from the space engineers guys... I bet they aren't paying that much, and they will be able to reach their message to 7million rabid fans over multiple videos through this avenue.

It's purely the integrity of yogscast which is the issue. Clearly they have none. If anyone has watched any of their videos, you can tell they don't give a fuck about games, they don't value great mechanics or innovative design. They value what children will want to see them fuck around on...which is fine when it's some crappy source of banal entertainment. But unfortunately they have great power in manipulating sales through promotional content to a largely unaware audience...which is a fairly new and insidious concept. I just wish they at least cared about games enough to give a neutral and well constructed opinion of a game, something they simply aren't capable of doing.

What's really out of order, is when a bunch of clueless youtube psuedolebrities start a kickstarter to mug off their fans and more than likely not lose any followers in the process. It's essentially daylight robbery and someone should be accountable...then again anyone who funds a kickstarter ran by yogscast, probably deserves to learn a lesson from this.
 
Man Puncher said:
I totally trust them to be fiscally responsible and transparent with the money. They have a terrific track record.
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You can look up their accounts online if you like.

They raise over a million dollars a year for charity via their charity drive at Christmas.
 
Stone Ocean said:
That's Yogscast's problem, not the backers'.

You can't be like "We aren't giving you your game or your money back but we are still going to have dinner with you!"
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uh...i think you're confused about how kickstarter/life work
the money was spent. theyre not giving anyone refunds lol. they're not legally obligated to, nor does the money exist to refund, anyway

i mean, i saw a couple posts above this saying they heard the youtube idiots actually kept half the 500k for themselves..so that's even shittier and would seem some of the money still does exist. but that's besides the point
 
magnetic said:
I kinda dislike Pewdiepie, but at least all he does is make videos and earn his money this way - at least he is earning his money with content, not with some shady Kickstarter.

Those Smosh guys are making their own game as well, so many this is part of larger trend?

http://newmediarockstars.com/2013/08/smosh-food-battle-the-game-raised-250k-from-indiegogo-is-that-way-too-much-for-a-mobile-game/
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It's the trend of realising parts of your fanbase trust you enough to do anything. PewDiePie could tell people to cut a permanent scar into their wrist to show their loyalty to him and thousands of people would do it*. He just hasn't done it yet and honestly, kudos to him if he doesn't want to use that relation to his fanbase to exploitively earn more money than he already is.


*speculation
 
Absolute bullshit, the company makes thousands of dollars from gamers a day and raised nearly half a million dollars yet can't produce a proper fucking product? Hope they get sued up the wazoo.
 
There's nothing wrong with kickstarter as concept. People who are naive as backers and naive as project holders can only blame themselves and each other.

Seriously, an open world MMO sandbox game for just $500k by people with little experience? Now there's a fine wake up call. :)

And I think it's baffling that people think that all the money can be repayed just like that.
 
Why in the world would anyone kickstart a studio's first game? How could you trust someone who has no credibility?

Anyways, this looked like just another Minecraft clone so I didn't care all that much.
 
Patryn said:
Legally and by the terms of service of Kickstarter, yes. However, Kickstarter itself does nothing to enforce giving refunds. All they do is have language enabling legal action in the event that a project is unable to fulfill its promises.

Basically the door is open for the backers to sue the people behind the project for breach of contract.
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In the UK would people who donated to the campaign using a credit card be able to claim the money back via chargeback/section 75?
 
mattp said:
uh...i think you're confused about how kickstarter/life work
the money was spent. theyre not giving anyone refunds lol. they're not legally obligated to, nor does the money exist to refund, anyway

i mean, i saw a couple posts above this saying they heard the youtube idiots actually kept half the 500k for themselves..so that's even shittier and would seem some of the money still does exist. but that's besides the point
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Kickstarter REQUIRES you to refund your backers if you can't fulfill your project. It's part of their ToS. They don't usually enforce it, since Kickstarter literally don't care for their backers at all as long as they are getting their fees, but it's still part of Kickstarter's rules.

https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=footer

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises.
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CecilRousso said:
There's nothing wrong with kickstarter as concept. People who are naive as backers and naive as project holders can only blame themselves and each other.

Seriously, an open world MMO sandbox game for just $500k by people with little experience? Now there's a fine wake up call. :)
Click to expand...

Drop the MMO bit, add people with at least some technical experience and a good work ethic, and it could have been feasible.

I wouldn't be so skeptical of what small teams can do, but a small band of podcasters or game reviewers of whatever does not make for a good start. With no offense intended...
 
mattp said:
uh...i think you're confused about how kickstarter/life work
the money was spent. theyre not giving anyone refunds lol. they're not legally obligated to, nor does the money exist to refund, anyway

i mean, i saw a couple posts above this saying they heard the youtube idiots actually kept half the 500k for themselves..so that's even shittier and would seem some of the money still does exist. but that's besides the point
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Incorrect. They are legally obligated to.

But the only way to force the issue is to sue.
 
RiggyRob said:
It is a donation. People forget that giving money on Kickstarter does not mean they are guaranteed to get anything out of it.
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I didn't mean to seem snarky and I fully understand they aren't guaranteed anything. I guess when you put it like that they are more of a donation. I just saw the word investment as putting money into something that may or may not succeed.
 
wrowa said:
Kickstarter REQUIRES you to refund your backers if you can't fulfill your project. It's part of their ToS. They don't usually enforce it, since Kickstarter literally don't care for their backers at all as long as they are getting their fees, but it's still part of Kickstarter's rules.

https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=footer
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lol oh come on
"we require you to refund money if you can't complete you're project. oh, but we can't enforce that or anything. you're also not legally required to refund the money. so nevemrind, just ignore this"
 
RandyBobandy said:
Why on earth would someone fund that
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Well they were probably good at convincing their backers that this will turn into a game they can enjoy and people may have believed them because until now, there was no reason to distrust them. But the simple truth is: People are way to naive when it comes to Kickstarter.

The risk of something like this failing is just too real and it's even higher when there is almost nothing to show but artworks and what seems to be the result of a week worth of work by an unknown team. You are backing something so early in development purely on trust and promises ... but i guess if you are into gambling, then this is for you.
But to be honest, i was already surprised that GODUS got successfully funded back then because of Peters track record of promising things that never come true. But well, i wonder if these people would still back that game today :)
 
gofreak said:
Drop the MMO bit, add people with at least some technical experience and a good work ethic, and it could have been feasible.

I wouldn't be so skeptical of what small teams can do, but a small band of podcasters or game reviewers of whatever does not make for a good start. With no offense intended...
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Small teams can suprise you, of course, but most that do shows of some kind of prototype or alpha before they ask for large sums of money.
 
mattp said:
lol oh come on
"we require you to refund money if you can't complete you're project. oh, but we can't enforce that or anything. you're also not legally required to refund the money. so nevemrind, just ignore this"
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Again, they ARE legally obligated.

If the backers sue, they will win. The project is in breach of contract.
 
Hanmik said:
wtf,,,? the guy lost his wife, allmost lost his job, spend 25.000$ himself on the project... but the worst part is letting the backers down..? get your priorities straight son..
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So this was his side project? how to you spend 500k on a side project? and why do you think you can undertake such a big payed project as a side project? wonder what his development credentials are..
 
I hope that guy gets his wife back. Like damn of all the stuff that has happened the only irreplaceable thing is this guy's marriage. I feel bad for the backers sure but you don't back on kickstarter unless you know the money you put in might just be gone.
 
PSOreo said:
I didn't mean to seem snarky and I fully understand they aren't guaranteed anything. I guess when you put it like that they are more of a donation. I just saw the word investment as putting money into something that may or may not succeed.
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That's fine, but the quote in the article here is pretty clear:

"It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project," Kickstarter's FAQ page states. "Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
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CecilRousso said:
Small teams can suprise you, of course, but most that do shows of some kind of prototype or alpha before they ask for large sums of money.
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Absolutely, if you're a small team kickstarting I think there's a bigger onus on you to show *something* upfront that verifies the feasibility of at least one or two of the harder components of your project.

But if you're 'internet famous'...
 
moggio said:
Winterkewl have (or mostly like will) file for bankruptcy.

So there's no-one to sue and no money to get.
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While I agree with you that it's nigh impossible to get the money back, it doesn't change the fact that there is a legal obligation.

And I'd be really curious to see who actually started the project on Kickstarter, because if it was Vale himself and not Winterkewl the company it's possible that he opened himself up to personal obligation regardless of whether Winterkewl declares bankruptcy.

Although, again, all this is dependent on whether any of the backers sue. I suspect they likely won't, because the monetary cost of the lawsuit is not worth what they'd win.
 
moggio said:
Winterkewl have (or mostly like will) file for bankruptcy.

So there's no-one to sue and no money to get.
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yep, exactly

the money is gone. no one is getting a refund
it's absolutely fucked, but it is also all the backers' "faults" because they donated money and took on that risk. it was pretty risky and irresponsible of them, too, if they were really worried about their money. rookie studio with overly ambitious goals. this is not a surprising story in any way
 
Are Winterkewl Games and Yogcast separate companies or was the game company owned by Yogcast ? If not, and they are separate, there's not much the backers can do, since they can only sue Winterkewl and not Yogcast, and the later don't have any founds.
 
So is someone going to sue these assholes? I mean they basically stole 500k. They're not just going to get away with it right?
 
Patryn said:
Again, they ARE legally obligated.

If the backers sue, they will win. The project is in breach of contract.
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I hope some people Lawyer up and taken them to court.


Some people need to make a stand against this kind of bullshit. At do it to set a precedent people can point at in future KS bullshit.
 
Exalted said:
Are Winterkewl Games and Yogcast separate companies or was the game company owned by Yogcast ? If not, and they are separate, there's not much the backers can do, since they can only sue Winterkewl and not Yogcast, and the later don't have any founds.
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They are separate.
 
silkysmooth said:
I hope that guy gets his wife back. Like damn of all the stuff that has happened the only irreplaceable thing is this guy's marriage. I feel bad for the backers sure but you don't back on kickstarter unless you know the money you put in might just be gone.
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I really hate when they include this stuff in such a statement. Just spare people the sob stories begging for pity.

It's shitty he lost so much but that's his thing, not the people whose money got wasted.
 
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