Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 10: Against the Odds, We Choose to Hype!

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The thing that confuses me the most about Lucina originally being an alt is that sakurai outright stated that separate characters wouldn't be alt costumes.

Sakurai never said that. Here's the quote that originates that misunderstanding.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/13/wii-u-and-3ds-smash-bros-will-not-have-cross-platform-play-wil/
Each version will interact with one another, however, as announced back in 2011. Specifically, players will be able to take characters they've customized and transfer them to the Wii U version.

He wouldn't elaborate on exactly what those customizations are, saying only that they won't be costumes and they won't be something that players have to unlock through repetitive tasks. Different costumes, he said, would take away from what makes each character unique.

It's just denying costume customization. Many people thought that it actually meant no alternate costumes at all, but the whole character stuff is a completely senseless leap.
 
Well...wouldn't say mario
and other melee vets
was well rounded in brawl in comparison to most of the newcomers lol.

Brawl doesn't exist in my headcanon

Sakurai never said that. Here's the quote that originates that misunderstanding.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/13/wii-u-and-3ds-smash-bros-will-not-have-cross-platform-play-wil/


It's just denying costume customization. Many people thought that it actually meant no alternate costumes at all, but the whole character stuff is a completely senseless leap.


Different costumes taking away what makes the character unique completely applies to Lucina as a costume for Marth though.
 
So Fox can jump after Illusion? So basically he'll be able to recover no matter where he is outside of the stage.

That's quite the buff.

Overall landing lag (maybe even move recovery) seems faster now, too.
 
My impression from Sakurai's Famitsu column is that he's okay with alternate costumes being different characters (specifically having different names and voices) as long as their playstyle is exactly the same.
 
I used to love my Mario until somebody thought it was a good idea to replace his spin (wich now would make even more sense) with a useless thing that I still don't understand.
 
What are players' thoughts about Mario so far? Can he keep up with all these new characters and fancy new mechanics?
I like Mario being the all rounder. It's actually why I like to play as him and why I always pick him first, which is something I don't do in his spinoffs.

Sakurai never said that. Here's the quote that originates that misunderstanding.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/13/wii-u-and-3ds-smash-bros-will-not-have-cross-platform-play-wil/


It's just denying costume customization. Many people thought that it actually meant no alternate costumes at all, but the whole character stuff is a completely senseless leap.

That's the problem with time. I remembered that quote and understood the original meaning of it but as time has gone by I guess I remembered all those misunderstandings as well and couldn't quite remember if it was a real quote or not.

Then again Sakurai has said he is one to change his mind on matters as time goes by so one really should take what he says with a grain of salt sometimes as it may not always end up true.
 
So Fox can jump after Illusion? So basically he'll be able to recover no matter where he is outside of the stage.

That's quite the buff.

Overall landing lag (maybe even move recovery) seems faster now, too.

The end lag before fox can jump after an aerial illusion is still considerable from what I remember, so it's nothing major.

Also considering knockback seems to be either vertical or diagonal with very few (if any) horizontal knockback moves, having a good horizontal recovery isn't exactly necessary.

And landing lag doesn't seem faster from the looks of things, where are you getting that from specifically?
 
So Fox can jump after Illusion? So basically he'll be able to recover no matter where he is outside of the stage.

That's quite the buff.

Overall landing lag (maybe even move recovery) seems faster now, too.

There's a good chance using it mid-air will negate the ability to follow it up with more special moves, so kind of like a mix of using Falcon Kick in Melee but with Sonic/Snake/Rob's recovery commitment.
 
Wonder if we'll be seeing anymore specific CG animation stuff from specific studios for newcomers, like Shaft with KI:U and the studio that did Awakening for Robin and Lucina.

Just occured to me that apart from the stinger at the end Pac-Man's trailer is entirely in-game

Does Xenoblade have a distinct CG style (if it has CG cutscenes at all)? If so than assuming that Shulk is in, they'll likely use that. And I know it's not CG but if Chorus Kids are in then they'll have the 2D Rhythm Heaven artstyle for their "CG" portion.
 
My impression from Sakurai's Famitsu column is that he's okay with alternate costumes being different characters (specifically having different names and voices) as long as their playstyle is exactly the same.

I'm completely fine with this. If they're fully remarked as being the different character, it doesn't affect hitboxes/hurtboxes, and they're a full clone, that's fine with me. Gives us a chance to have some unique bonus characters, without giving them a complete slot on the roster.
 
The end lag before fox can jump after an aerial illusion is still considerable from what I remember, so it's nothing major.

We don't know that. Maybe the player didn't try to jump immediately after the Illusion.

And landing lag doesn't seem faster from the looks of things, where are you getting that from specifically?

The two videos here: http://smashboards.com/threads/game...loading-times-new-demo-in-circulation.361443/

Just keep looking for characters landing after a mid-air special move. It just feels faster to me.
 
Does Xenoblade have a distinct CG style (if it has CG cutscenes at all)? If so than assuming that Shulk is in, they'll likely use that. And I know it's not CG but if Chorus Kids are in then they'll have the 2D Rhythm Heaven artstyle for their "CG" portion.

Low poly and low res textures with unnatural animations.
 
The two videos here: http://smashboards.com/threads/game...loading-times-new-demo-in-circulation.361443/

Just keep looking for characters landing after a mid-air special move. It just feels faster to me.


I've watched them and it looks the same to me, like I posted earlier the end lag on fox's fair, dair, bowsers dair and a few others is still considerable.

We don't know that. Maybe the player didn't try to jump immediately after the Illusion.

The fox player jumps as soon as the illusion recovery lag ends.

Considering the fact that he was probably spamming jump to not die, and sakurais penchant for removing any form of animation cancelling in this game, I think it's a sure thing you won't be able to cancel the endlag into a jump.
 
I'm allergic to them, so you're not alone :p

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How has nobody posted it?
zlCfzSLPQME07YwO0O

Pic of the day. We have Nintendogs plus cats! How could we forget them!! Just FYI, there are about five dog breeds in this game. This was me, reporting from the 3DS-exclusive stage, Living Room.
Meh, cats.
 
The fox player jumps as soon as the illusion recovery lag ends.

Considering the fact that he was probably spamming jump to not die, and sakurais penchant for removing any form of animation cancelling in this game, I think it's a sure thing you won't be able to cancel the endlag into a jump.

If Fox can do Illusion - Jump - Up-Special, that would be an insane recovery, so this lag after Illusion is probably a way to balance it.
 
Does Xenoblade have a distinct CG style (if it has CG cutscenes at all)? If so than assuming that Shulk is in, they'll likely use that. And I know it's not CG but if Chorus Kids are in then they'll have the 2D Rhythm Heaven artstyle for their "CG" portion.

Shulk would likely get the usual CGI style trailer like Megaman and Rosalina.
 
If Fox can do Illusion - Jump - Up-Special, that would be an insane recovery, so this lag after Illusion is probably a way to balance it.

I don't think it would have been that good in the grand scheme of things.

Fox having a better recovery does less for him than shine and laser cancels did before they were removed.

Also I doubt he made illusion not put you into special fall for it to be a good recovery or anything, he probably put it in to stop people who accidentally do it and end up off the stage from SDing.




On a slightly unrelated note, I really don't like how he seems more concerned with having elaborate/unnecessary ending animations with no ability to cancel than actually having moves be useful, he seems to hate projectiles in this version of the game.
 
This weeks Famitsu says Lucina has a Guile-like taunt where you can put on her mask and keep it on! I love silly things like that.

animation priority has its place, but i didn't ever think smash would be that kinda game @_@

What do you mean by animation priority? Smash has always had uninterruptible animations as part of it's core design and balancing, every standard fighting game is the same way also. Animation priority seemed to pop up as a way of describing the controls of games like Monster Hunter, but a large amount of games work this way without people noticing because of the speed in which animations play out.
 
It's always been in smash, but there have always been ways to cancel it or lessen the affects to make the gameplay more fluid that have been removed as the series went on.

64 and melee had Z/L cancelling, Brawl removed that but you were still able to cancel the end animation on moves like link/toon links arrows and samus' missiles (as well as a few others).

But now in this game they've removed even that, not my cup of tea, slows the game down too much when you remove it all in favour of having to watch Fox put away his blaster.
 
What do you mean by animation priority? Smash has always had uninterruptible animations as part of it's core design and balancing, every standard fighting game is the same way also. Animation priority seemed to pop up as a way of describing the controls of games like Monster Hunter, but a large amount of games work this way without people noticing because of the speed in which animations play out.

Sure - startup and recovery has always been a part of fighting games and game design - my definition of animation priority is basically when a designer seems like they want to prioritise how it looks over how it plays. Joeinky seems to think it's more prevalent in Smash 4, but I have no real clue as of yet - can't read it fast enough.
 
Sure - startup and recovery has always been a part of fighting games and game design - my definition of animation priority is basically when a designer seems like they want to prioritise how it looks over how it plays. Joeinky seems to think it's more prevalent in Smash 4, but I have no real clue as of yet - can't read it fast enough.

This is just all my own conjecture of course, but for example I can see Sakurai removing the ability to cancel the endlag on Toon Links neutral special not because of any balancing reasons (the arrows aren't any more useful or powerful or anything since in brawl afaik), but because he thinks it looks wrong to go from the bow animation instantly into a landing animation.

Exact same situation with Samus' missiles, I can't see any game balance reason why you should be locked into the endlag after using it, but it doesn't look weird when you can't cancel the animation.

I can see him thinking that the increased animation speed on z/l cancelled aerials looking weird would be part of the reason why he removed that feature rather than it being because it's an input barrier, otherwise there would (or maybe It's just me thinking there should) have been some similar function without the input barrier in brawl.

Making a move slower to use when there's nothing else to justify making it slower is a decision I just don't get, I don't mind animations being slightly jarring, I've never had a problem with them before.
 
I'm allergic to them, so you're not alone :p

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How has nobody posted it?
zlCfzSLPQME07YwO0O

Pic of the day. We have Nintendogs plus cats! How could we forget them!! Just FYI, there are about five dog breeds in this game. This was me, reporting from the 3DS-exclusive stage, Living Room.

This is a rather unexciting PoTD...particularly when you consider how close the game is to launch and how little information we have regarding some of the characters and stages.
 
even if two characters' names and voices differ
So it sounds like Dark Pit could be called "Dark Pit" in game, have his own voice and appearance and still be a costume, not a clone? As long as his stats are identical, he has no problem making elaborate, other character costumes?
 
This is a rather unexciting PoTD...particularly when you consider how close the game is to launch and how little information we have regarding some of the characters and stages.

I'm sorry I must be out of the loop; what are we missing context on exactly? Seems like the bulk of speculation has been clarified already. And anything they don't clarify are secrets and bonuses for us to discover.
 
So it sounds like Dark Pit could be called "Dark Pit" in game, have his own voice and appearance and still be a costume, not a clone? As long as his stats are identical, he has no problem making elaborate, other character costumes?

Well I doubt they would put any effort into making Dark Pit any differently than Pit because they already look so similar.

At best I think you should expect Dark Pit to just be a costume.
 
This is a rather unexciting PoTD...particularly when you consider how close the game is to launch and how little information we have regarding some of the characters and stages.

Doesn't Mona in the WarioWare games become a news caster at some point? And doesn't she sign off with "This is Mona, from this location?"
 
I'm sorry I must be out of the loop; what are we missing context on exactly? Seems like the bulk of speculation has been clarified already. And anything they don't clarify are secrets and bonuses for us to discover.

We don't know what Palutena's default special attacks are yet.
 
I'm sorry I must be out of the loop; what are we missing context on exactly? Seems like the bulk of speculation has been clarified already. And anything they don't clarify are secrets and bonuses for us to discover.

There are still some questions regarding Robin's moveset and his abilities. Additionally, it's been quite some time since a new stage was revealed, or even teased.

It seems like as of late, the PoTD has been somewhat informative and has provided us with a small slice of new information.

Today's PoTD just seems a little bland in comparison, especially when you consider the game is about 8 weeks away from releasing.
 
This is just all my own conjecture of course, but for example I can see Sakurai removing the ability to cancel the endlag on Toon Links neutral special not because of any balancing reasons (the arrows aren't any more useful or powerful or anything since in brawl afaik), but because he thinks it looks wrong to go from the bow animation instantly into a landing animation.

Exact same situation with Samus' missiles, I can't see any game balance reason why you should be locked into the endlag after using it, but it doesn't look weird when you can't cancel the animation.

I can see him thinking that the increased animation speed on z/l cancelled aerials looking weird would be part of the reason why he removed that feature rather than it being because it's an input barrier, otherwise there would (or maybe It's just me thinking there should) have been some similar function without the input barrier in brawl.

Making a move slower to use when there's nothing else to justify making it slower is a decision I just don't get, I don't mind animations being slightly jarring, I've never had a problem with them before.

Everything in the game appears to have take a considerable jump in speed, there's no way he's going to follow up on that by letting people cut recovery frames out on moves- not for every character at least.
 
So it sounds like Dark Pit could be called "Dark Pit" in game, have his own voice and appearance and still be a costume, not a clone? As long as his stats are identical, he has no problem making elaborate, other character costumes?

I've been saying they should do that since before Brawl released. Fitting multiple characters into a single character slot via alts makes so much more sense than a bunch of different colors.
 
This is a rather unexciting PoTD...particularly when you consider how close the game is to launch and how little information we have regarding some of the characters and stages.
Yeah. I was hoping with the new characters that it would be a while before we go back to nothing. At the moment I really want to see some indication that Falcon is getting fixed.
Doesn't Mona in the WarioWare games become a news caster at some point? And doesn't she sign off with "This is Mona, from this location?"
Even if she does, it's a pretty common thing. Don't read too much into it.
 
Doesn't Mona in the WarioWare games become a news caster at some point? And doesn't she sign off with "This is Mona, from this location?"

Mona doesn't really become anything. She has a new job in almost every game. Game and Wario has her as a journalist/photographer.
 

Other rumor with playable boss characters.

I don't buy it because Shulk.

Sorry Xenofans. I don't think it's happening.

On a different note, I'm disappointed that Lucina is a clone. they could have done so much more with her fighting style.

To be fair, I think Shulk still have a chance but not that great as before with Gematsu being wrong.
 
shoutouts to the fact that in the span of time since first seeing the tomodachi life stage, we've had the game announced for localization, released, and are a month and a half past release without any new information on that stage
 
LOL at Sakurai admitting the "too many blue haired swordsmen" meme as true!

I chuckled at that as well. Further proof that Sakurai is totally aware of what the fans are saying, haha.

My impression from Sakurai's Famitsu column is that he's okay with alternate costumes being different characters (specifically having different names and voices) as long as their playstyle is exactly the same.

Right--which is what leads me to believe that we /will/ be seeing Dark Pit in the game, but as a selectable alternate costume and not a character on the roster. Likewise, I'm secretly holding out hope that we'll get an admittedly inaccurate version of Proto Man as a Mega Man alt. :3

So was this posted yet?

GAF > Internet > GAF at its finest, haha. But hey--I'm a digitally published author!

This weeks Famitsu says Lucina has a Guile-like taunt where you can put on her mask and keep it on! I love silly things like that.

To clarify, Sakurai only said that she puts on and takes off her mask when she appears for battle and during one of her taunts. His wording did not specifically imply that you could swap modes, although I would guess that such a feature will be included.
 
Just read that Sakurai column about the FE characters. Crazy that Lucina was intended as a Marth alt, I'm guessing in this form she would've looked liked the masked "Marth" from Awakening more than her usual self. I'm also pretty disappointed that aside from not having Marth's sword-tip multiplier gimmick, she is exactly the same as him. It makes her look like more of a clone of Marth than Roy was, but I guess fans of her should count their blessings that she just barely scrapped by into a character slot of her own at this point. (whether or not she gets lucky again in future games though...)

Also Dark Pit has to be a Pit alt at this point. Lucina sounds more like the exception than the rule, and Sakurai basically said that even if the characters have different names/voices/etc., as long as they play the same then they are not different characters in the roster.
 
Everything in the game appears to have take a considerable jump in speed, there's no way he's going to follow up on that by letting people cut recovery frames out on moves- not for every character at least.

I don't really know how to structure my counter point so I'm just going to throw things at the wall and see what sticks.

I think to start off a I should probably note that we both have different opinions of what a "considerable jump in speed [from Brawl?]" is, currently the game for me is at a slight increase in speed, even if the game went full on melee mode in terms of speed, I still wouldn't consider that a considerable jump.

Anyway, the falling and movement speeds of characters might be better, but I think when you add all the lag in between it can slow down the overall pace of the game.

It's like the comparison between a fast car, a slow car and a fast car that is constantly stalling, if you're used to the fast car, you'd probably prefer the slow car to the one that's constantly stalling because the potential just isn't being reached by the banger that keeps on stalling, it would feel disappointing.

I don't know if that analogy makes sense to anyone but myself, but that's how I feel is the easiest way to describe it.

Also, I don't think the fact that people move and fall faster means that they should remove to ability to cancel projectiles, all that does is make projectiles useless because you're stuck in an animation where the opponent is able to use the increased movement speed to make punishing much easier.

Things should be high risk - high reward and low risk - low reward if you ask me, but with a lot of moves in the game it seems like they're going with a higher risk - lower reward design which doesn't sit right with me.
 
Man I do hope Smash 4 gets it's own special opening cinematic in the vein of Melee

Brawl's opening cinematic was so lame since it was just Subspace Emissary clips

I want everyone to get a spot in the limelight, MvC3 style, including those who haven't made an appearance in character trailers (that and not all of the clips would work well for an intro)
 
This is a rather unexciting PoTD...particularly when you consider how close the game is to launch and how little information we have regarding some of the characters and stages.

Well, this bit was new

But he's being very generous those past weeks, I can see him saving some info for closer to launch
 
Just read that Sakurai column about the FE characters. Crazy that Lucina was intended as a Marth alt, I'm guessing in this form she would've looked liked the masked "Marth" from Awakening more than her usual self. I'm also pretty disappointed that aside from not having Marth's sword-tip multiplier gimmick, she is exactly the same as him. It makes her look like more of a clone of Marth than Roy was, but I guess fans of her should count their blessings that she just barely scrapped by into a character slot of her own at this point. (whether or not she gets lucky again in future games though...)

I think you only think she looks exactly the same because you're thinking of old Marth, she's quicker and has less endlag on her attacks and is probably weaker so she'll play differently to current Marth, who they've made less of a combo-oriented character in this game.
 
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