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[BGBW]

They placed it below "fun to play" but you can't do that because as I said they tie into each other the most

He was talking about characters conceptually. When he's designing a character he doesn't want to be hindered by balance. He just wants to come up with a character who sounds fun first and then balance them later.

People are just being anal about the term fun here despite it being quite obvious what he meant.

 

[Anth0ny]

I was just referring to smash, period. No newbie has ever picked up jigglypuff and said 'wow, she's so strong!'

well with Melee when I used to play FFAs I had a buddy who would just fish for rests the entire game, every game. it worked decently well.


then brawl came out, and that strategy stopped working.

then we stopped playing brawl

 

[Crocodile]

They placed it below "fun to play" but you can't do that because as I said they tie into each other the most

Saying one is more important that the other isn't the same as saying the later isn't important. Again, in the context of Little Mac's inclusion and how even other fighting games are designed, nothing he said is at all objectionable.

He was talking about characters conceptually. When he's designing a character he doesn't want to be hindered by balance. He just wants to come up with a character who sounds fun first and then balance them later.

People are just being anal about the term fun here despite it being quite obvious what he meant.

Thank you.

 

[NeonZ]

People saying balance isn't important are crazy to me. Playing Brawl jigglypuff in FFA, 1vs1, with items or just in general was no fun because she sucked so much. Balance is key to even casual play because it does directly effect how fun a character is to play.

Brawl Jigglypuff isn't fun to play because... she isn't fun to play with. I don't see how that's related to this matter at all. It's not like she's low tier because Sakurai added some new unique point to her that completely backfired balance-wise.

She's low tier just because some of her old tools don't work well in Brawl's engine and others were purposefully weakened, like Rest, as mentioned in the Dojo. It has nothing to do with placing uniqueness above balance.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

They placed it below "fun to play" but you can't do that because as I said they tie into each other the most

I think for the kind of "casual play" Sakurai has in mind - a bunch of people sitting around a TV, items and stage hazards flying all over the place - a lot of these balance issues start to go away. With all that chaos, and with people who aren't super-skilled, tier differences tend to get ironed out. In my experience, generally competent players can be decent with any character and against any character. Balance problems tend to become more pronounced the higher up the skill ladder you climb, and the more you reduce the chaotic influence of items and stage hazards. It's totally fair to complain about that, but at least for the type of play Sakurai himself envisions for Smash, it's much less of a problem, and his privileging of uniqueness and fun over balance generally works out fine.

 

[georly]

well with Melee when I used to play FFAs I had a buddy who would just fish for rests the entire game, every game. it worked decently well.


then brawl came out, and that strategy stopped working.

then we stopped playing brawl

Jiggly killed brawl confirmed. Jiggly cut confirmed.

 

[Myn]

I was just referring to smash, period. No newbie has ever picked up jigglypuff and said 'wow, she's so strong!'

Well, to be fair, she didn't have that fun or imaginative of a move set compared to the other characters. Lack of a proper up-B recovery is probably another reason why nobody plays her, same concept goes for Yoshi.

 

[Anura]

Brawl Jigglypuff isn't fun to play because... she isn't fun to play with. I don't see how that's related to this matter at all. It's not like she's low tier because Sakurai added some new unique point to her that completely backfired balance-wise. She's low tier just because some of her old tools don't work well in Brawl's engine and others were purposefully weakened. It has nothing to do with placing uniqueness above balance.

Not prioritizing balance is exactly why Puff is the way she is way. I don't think it's wrong to want uniqueness but I think it's wrong to place it above balance when they're both incredible pivotal to a fun game

 

[random25]

well with Melee when I used to play FFAs I had a buddy who would just fish for rests the entire game, every game. it worked decently well.


then brawl came out, and that strategy stopped working.

then we stopped playing brawl

That's why they balanced out Jigglypuff...coz she's too OP in Melee

I think it's more on the defensive and slow-paced nature of Brawl that really disrupted strategies for Puff. Same for Luigi.

 

[SliceSabre]

Are people really under the impression that a character must be 'viable and balanced' to be fun to play?

Kirby is considered terrible but he's still my favorite character to play as because he is fun to play for me.

Hell, I love Yoshi, Kirby, Pichu and a lot of people consider them awful. Balance means absolutely nothing to me if I'm not having fun with the characters.

 

[georly]

Well, to be fair, she didn't have that fun or imaginative of a move set compared to the other characters. Lack of a proper up-B recovery is probably another reason why nobody plays her, same concept goes for Yoshi.

Yeah, totally agree that yoshi is almost on the same level of jigglypuff as far as being no fun to beginners. Easy Up B really helps beginners. I think that's why a lot of beginners don't like ness/lucas either. Being unable to recover when knocked off a stage can be no fun to someone unwilling to put in the time to learn them.

 

[JoeInky]

Are people really under the impression that a character must be 'viable and balanced' to be fun to play?

Kirby is considered terrible but he's still my favorite character to play as because he is fun to play for me.

Hell, I love Yoshi, Kirby, Pichu and a lot of people consider them awful. Balance means absolutely nothing to me if I'm not having fun with the characters.

Yes, I'd rather not be pitted against someone with a swiss army knife when all I have is a stick, even if the stick does have glitter and sparkles on it.

Yeah, totally agree that yoshi is almost on the same level of jigglypuff as far as being no fun to beginners. Easy Up B really helps beginners. I think that's why a lot of beginners don't like ness/lucas either. Being unable to recover when knocked off a stage can be no fun to someone unwilling to put in the time to learn them.

Nobody likes Ness, beginners or advanced players, sakurai seems intent on making him shit tier in every game.


B-but atleast he has a unique recovery r-right guys?

 

[georly]

Holy crap, I just realized why the smash 4 theme sounds familiar. It totally reminds me of this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIuuPTM3nSc

(compared to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncXk1YjhzKE)

Yes, I'd rather not be pitted against someone with a swiss army knife when all I have is a stick, even if the stick does have glitter and sparkles on it.

Swiss army knives are not actually very good weapons. Sticks, however, are. Bad analogy

 

[NeonZ]

Not prioritizing balance is exactly why Puff is the way she is way.

Not prioritizing balance above uniqueness has nothing to do with Jigglypuff's situation in Brawl though. She wasn't shafted due to some new unique point added to her character in spite of balance, she was just badly balanced/tweaked going into Brawl.

It's not like Sakurai has said that he disregards balance. In fact, he often mentions balance in interviews regarding why he doesn't just make an extremely large cast.

It isn’t a matter of ‘if the next game has 50 characters, that’ll be enough.’ There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive…

“The game balance of Super Smash Bros. Brawl started six years before its release, and it most likely goes back even further during its time of development, and it’s never been reformed even through the updates afterwards.

 

[Anura]

Are people really under the impression that a character must be 'viable and balanced' to be fun to play?

Kirby is considered terrible but he's still my favorite character to play as because he is fun to play for me.

Hell, I love Yoshi, Kirby, Pichu and a lot of people consider them awful.

Playing Puff in brawl was a chore in any setting. She isn't fun in brawl.

She wasn't good, she wasn't viable, she wasn't balanced, she wasn't unique and she wasn't fun. But I like puff in melee and I like her so seeing her become so awful is a terrible feeling. Everyone wants their favorite character to be good.

That's why they balanced out Jigglypuff...coz she's too OP in Melee

I think it's more on the defensive and slow-paced nature of Brawl that really disrupted strategies for Puff. Same for Luigi.

Honestly you don't even need to go into the meta-game to see how much Jiggs sucks. The overly defensive nature just compounds it

 

[SmithnCo]

Jiggly is one of the most fun to me in Brawl, lol. At least her being floaty makes sense.

 

[JoeInky]

Swiss army knives are not actually very good weapons. Sticks, however, are. Bad analogy

Well, it's like bringing a stick to a gun fight then...

 

[SliceSabre]

Playing Puff in brawl was a chore in any setting. She isn't fun in brawl.

She wasn't good, she wasn't viable, she wasn't balanced, she wasn't unique and she wasn't fun. But I like puff in melee and I like her so seeing her become so awful is a terrible feeling. Everyone wants their favorite character to be good.

Honestly you don't even need to go into the meta-game to see how much Jiggs sucks. The overly defensive nature just compounds it

Tell that to people who fall in love with joke characters in other fighting games. i.e. Dan

Hell, Kirby is completely unviable in the competitive scene yet I love everything about him. I'm fully aware there are better characters to use than him, so what? I do not find Meta Knight very fun to play at all, yet he is a much better fighter than Kirby and I love playing as Kirby

 

[Shadow Hog]

Clean:

You get to choose one song to be in the game. Go.

Oh, jeez, that's a toughie.

At first, I was gonna say the boss battle theme from Battle & Get: Pokémon Typing DS, as it's awesome but obscure enough to have a low chance of getting in.

Then I remembered I really want "Gaur Plains" in the game, so that probably trumps that.

Then I remembered "It Has To Be This Way", and how it basically has no chance of getting into the game if Snake doesn't get in. I think that'll be my final answer; a proper fighting game match to that song would be the most intense thing possible.

this one >:3

Professor Beef, I'll have you know it's against GAF rules to have multiple accounts. Stop that.

 

[Anura]

Jiggly is one of the most fun to me in Brawl, lol. At least her being floaty makes sense.

I wish I could feel the same, lol. I really wish I could have had fun with her...

Edit:

Tell that to people who fall in love with joke characters in other fighting games. i.e. Dan

Hell, Kirby is completely unviable in the competitive scene yet I love everything about him. I'm fully aware there are better characters to use than him, so what? I do not find Meta Knight very fun to play at all, yet he is a much better fighter than Kirby and I love playing as Kirby

Did they fall in love with his personality or the fact that he sucked? I don't know about you but personality and design is the reason I choose characters in fighting games. Having that character you fell in love with be awful isn't good IMO and in a game filled with Nintendo icons it's even worse

 

[AZCards]

Yeah, totally agree that yoshi is almost on the same level of jigglypuff as far as being no fun to beginners. Easy Up B really helps beginners. I think that's why a lot of beginners don't like ness/lucas either. Being unable to recover when knocked off a stage can be no fun to someone unwilling to put in the time to learn them.

That's not true. When Smash 64 came out, I was 10 years old and used Yoshi. Probably not even 30 minutes into playing it, I realized he didn't have a recovery. Didn't bother me at all, and I have mained Yoshi in all three games. I've never heard one of my friends say how stupid/lame a fighter was because they didn't have a recovery.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Jiggly is one of the most fun to me in Brawl, lol. At least her being floaty makes sense.

She have the best suicide ever. Hold Shield button until she ran out of shield.

 

[NeonZ]

You know, reading this, I wonder if the increased land lag at E3 was due an attempt at balancing without getting negative reactions from the players?

“Now that Sunday’s day off is past, I’m currently working on the character adjustment for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U.At the moment, Bowser is very strong. He’s really strong. Fans of Smash Bros. probably never saw him as too much of a strong character, but this time, his ability to knock others out is very strong!”

“Doing things like simply ‘lowering the performance’ can make games lose its fun. Additionally, making a strong attack weaker can take away from the ‘good feeling’. By making adjustments that get rid of all advantages and disadvantages, it can turn a game into a mediocre one without any challenge.”

“Rather than directly weakening an attack’s advantageous parts, we’re putting effort into keeping them strong, while adding other weaknesses to them. Like giving the attacks punishable openings, or weakening the character’s mobility or recovery rate. We’re making comprehensive adjustments to characters, even for parts that might seem completely irrelevant.”

“The game balance of Super Smash Bros. Brawl started six years before its release, and it most likely goes back even further during its time of development, and it’s never been reformed even through the updates afterwards. We’re at a stage where we’d like to release the new title as soon as possible, and offer something more enjoyable than ever.”

If so, I guess it's possible that it could be dropped afterwards, considering how it didn't seem to hit its intended effect.

 

[Crocodile]

I think for the kind of "casual play" Sakurai has in mind - a bunch of people sitting around a TV, items and stage hazards flying all over the place - a lot of these balance issues start to go away. With all that chaos, and with people who aren't super-skilled, tier differences tend to get ironed out. In my experience, generally competent players can be decent with any character and against any character. Balance problems tend to become more pronounced the higher up the skill ladder you climb, and the more you reduce the chaotic influence of items and stage hazards. It's totally fair to complain about that, but at least for the type of play Sakurai himself envisions for Smash, it's much less of a problem, and his privileging of uniqueness and fun over balance generally works out fine.

It's not even really a casual vs. competitive outlook so much as the nature of the beast when it comes to cross-over fighting games. The Marvel series is the prime example - character picks weren't made with respect as to who would be easiest to balance but who would be more fun, were favorites amongst the developers or fan favorites. The series is known for poor balance (again, rushed deadlines and incompetence contribute ) but that doesn't stop it from having a respectable causal and competitive audience.

 

[Cse]

People saying balance isn't important are crazy to me. Playing Brawl jigglypuff in FFA, 1vs1, with items or just in general was no fun because she sucked so much. Balance is key to even casual play because it does directly effect how fun a character is to play.

This is another element that worries me about Smash 4. Sure, some of the characters look incredibly interesting and unique, like Villager and Rosalina. I just think most of them will be a complete waste for people who not only play competitively, but even for casual fans who just want to ensure a win against a friend.

Hungrybox has already said that "The Villager is terrible."

 

[PadWarrior]

I know Anthony is going to comic con. Is anyone else attending?

 

[JoeInky]

Tell that to people who fall in love with joke characters in other fighting games. i.e. Dan

Hell, Kirby is completely unviable in the competitive scene yet I love everything about him. I'm fully aware there are better characters to use than him, so what? I do not find Meta Knight very fun to play at all, yet he is a much better fighter than Kirby and I love playing as Kirby

Why exactly do you love Kirby and why would you not use him if he had the exact same moves except they were better?

 

[georly]

That's not true. When Smash 64 came out, I was 10 years old and used Yoshi. Probably not even 30 minutes into playing it, I realized he didn't have a recovery. Didn't bother me at all, and I have mained Yoshi in all three games. I've never heard one of my friends say how stupid/lame a fighter was because they didn't have a recovery.

I mean moreso 'gaming beginners' My 10 year old brother also had no problem w/ ness in smash 64, but he had been gaming his whole life.

My girlfriend, who only plays mario, can not, for the life of her, play characters like yoshi, ness, etc because they're too hard to recover w/ them.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

Nobody likes Ness, beginners or advanced players, sakurai seems intent on making him shit tier in every game.


B-but atleast he has a unique recovery r-right guys?

I think Ness is a lot of fun to play. He's got really interesting specials, decent aerials, and a killer dash grab. The fact that he's "shit tier" makes no difference to casual me and the casual people I play against; I'm competent enough that I can do decently with him. But the most important thing (to get back to the fun-over-balance topic) is that Ness is unique and he simply feels good to use. There are few things more satisfying than hitting someone with a fully-charged PK Flash.

It's not even really a casual vs. competitive outlook so much as the nature of the beast when it comes to cross-over fighting games. The Marvel series is the prime example - character picks weren't made with respect as to who would be easiest to balance but who would be more fun, were favorites amongst the developers or fan favorites. The series is known for poor balance (again, rushed deadlines and incompetence contribute ) but that doesn't stop it from having a respectable causal and competitive audience.

Definitely - my point was just that by its very nature, casual Smash play tends to iron out balance problems. The advantages of high tier characters are blunted when items are everywhere and the stage is flipping around or sending out hazards. The same things, conversely, reduce low-tier characters' flaws.

 

[Myn]

On the note of Jigglypuff, one thing I think would be cool is if Rest regenerates her health gradually like the move does in the actual games. I don't think this would be broken because you're vulnerable for so long when doing it, so there's no point in Resting randomly. The recovery in past games has always been so slow that even if you do KO someone with it, they can respawn and still punish you. It already has such a minuscule hitbox and is hard to hit with, so there should be some type of reward at least if it connects.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I think what turns off most people about Jigglypuff is that they probably don't realize she's the Mac of the air. (Or rather, Mac is the Puff of the ground.) I feel like Puff is easy once you realize all her strengths comes from being in the air. I got friends trying her out after I showed them that, and they all think she's really fun.

And I think it has to do with moveset design more than balance. The reason Puff isn't fun to play as in Brawl isn't because she's bad, but because she doesn't translate well into Brawl. I feel the same way with Falco as well, and he's great. (Though I guess maybe too used to Melee Falco being very diverse)
Ike is bad as well, but the reason he's so fun comes from the satisfaction of being able to hit like a truck. He was designed to have troubles hitting so that when you manage to get a kill with that sword, it feels that much more accomplishing. I know some don't know like that, because that is specifically why he's bad, but I noticed that's why most love using him. Makes me curious on the direction Sakurai will take with him in this game, since balancing seems more of a priority this time.


Oh, hi SmashGAF!

 

[Anura]

On the note of Jigglypuff, one thing I think would be cool is if Rest regenerates her health gradually like the move does in the actual games. I don't think this would be broken because you're vulnerable for so long when doing it, so there's no point in Resting randomly. The recovery in past games has always been so slow that even if you do KO someone with it, they can respawn and still punish you. It already has such a minuscule hitbox and is hard to hit with, so there should be some type of reward at least if it connects.

That would be very cool!

Edit:

I think what turns off most people about Jigglypuff is that they probably don't realize she's the Mac of the air. (Or rather, Mac is the Puff of the ground.) I feel like Puff is easy once you realize all her strengths comes from being in the air. I got friends trying her out after I showed them that, and they all think she's really fun.

And I think it has to do with moveset design more than balance. The reason Puff isn't fun to play as in Brawl isn't because she's bad, but because she doesn't translate well into Brawl. I feel the same way with Falco as well, and he's great. (Though I guess maybe too used to Melee Falco being very diverse)
Ike is bad as well, but the reason he's so fun comes from the satisfaction of being able to hit like a truck. He was designed to have troubles hitting so that when you manage to get a kill with that sword, it feels so accomplishing. I know some don't know like that, because that is specifically why he's bad, but I noticed that's why most love using him. Makes me curious on the direction Sakurai will take with him in this game, since balancing seems more of a priority this time.


Oh, hi SmashGAF!

No brawl puff IS bad and for more reason than she didn't translate well.

Picking her apart piece by piece we see that her tilts and jabs are much the same but lose the combo ability. Smashes got beat to the ground. Upsmash is weaker and harder to hit with and Dsmash is the same. FSmash got murdered was once a good kill move in melee but now is horrendously weak, ultra slow and unsafe but it's still her best smash! Now for the air game... Uair, Dair and Nair lost much of its usability thanks to the engine change and got nerfed in other ways. Bair and Fair are her only decent moves but because of this they get degraded so fast and I becomes a game of "do I want to use this now or do I want to wait till later?". Rest even got huge nerfs as it's now weaker and EVEN HARDER to hit with

 

[JoeInky]

I think Ness is a lot of fun to play. He's got really interesting specials, decent aerials, and a killer dash grab. The fact that he's "shit tier" makes no difference to casual me and the casual people I play against; I'm competent enough that I can do decently with him. But the most important thing (to get back to the fun-over-balance topic) is that Ness is unique and he simply feels good to use. There are few things more satisfying than hitting someone with a fully-charged PK Flash.

I main Ness in every game and Project M is the only version of him that feels fun to play because it doesn't feel like I'm playing with two broken crutches.

Ness might be unique in brawl or melee or whatever it is you're referring too, but he's still complete shit and can be good without actually changing anything that makes him unique.

 

[Anth0ny]

http://a.pomf.se/zgghsa.webm

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I get that it's no fun to lose, and balance is very important in any fighting game, but come on y'all.

Maybe I'm an anomaly, but I can beat my (same skill level) friends as any character in Brawl. I'm not saying I always win, but there's not one character that I can't win with.

I guess this is an issue I'm at a disconnect with the rest of the community with. I mean, if I experienced game crippling balance issues (which everyone says Brawl has), I'd have no fun. And Brawl is still fun for me.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Crocodile]

This is another element that worries me about Smash 4. Sure, some of the characters look incredibly interesting and unique, like Villager and Rosalina. I just think most of them will be a complete waste for people who not only play competitively, but even for casual fans who just want to ensure a win against a friend.

Hungrybox has already said that "The Villager is terrible."

Hungrybox is a very talented and smart smasher but I don't trust day -2351315 tier lists (let alone day 1 tier lists) or does somebody need to repost the Seven Stages of Grief with Justin Wong

Why exactly do you love Kirby and why would you not use him if he had the exact same moves except they were better?

That's not what he said. He's expressing the same sentiment that anybody who choose Career ! over Career B even though Career B pays 2x as much - they just enjoy it more.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I think Ness is a lot of fun to play. He's got really interesting specials, decent aerials, and a killer dash grab. The fact that he's "shit tier" makes no difference to casual me and the casual people I play against; I'm competent enough that I can do decently with him. But the most important thing (to get back to the fun-over-balance topic) is that Ness is unique and he simply feels good to use. There are few things more satisfying than hitting someone with a fully-charged PK Flash.

Exactly - though I personally hate PK Flash, haha. Ness, as well as Kirby, consistenyl have fun moves to use even if they're bad on the tier list. Ness' Bair and Dair single-handedly make him a joy to play, which is why I mained him in Melee for quite a while recently.

Brawl!Jifflypuff, in contrast, took out the moves that made her fun in Melee by nerfing them. Even if you weren't an amazing player, you could take Jigglypuff and have a lot of fun using her Rollout or Rest to get some satisfying kills in FFA - especially Rest, which stands as one of the most satisfying moves to kill with int he entirety of Melee. In Brawl, it's much harder to have this fun because the moves are nerfed, thus the risk/reward in using them is skewed too much towards risk and the character becomes much less fun.

Brawl!Falcon got hit with the same type of nerf bat. His Fair knee got harder to use and became weaker, his Falcon Punch became weaker, his moves overall became weaker and more difficult to use, and the character turned from something that was fun to something that was really not fun. He also got hurt by the overall movement mechanics, of course, because of Brawl's lack of momentum conservation. Which I sincerely hope shows up in SSB4, because if one thing could make the game feel more fluid and faster without actually making it faster it's conservation of momentum.

Brawl overall had far a lot of very poor risk/reward situations - for crying out loud, they attached a risk to running! Running!

 

[IntelliHeath]

I think what turns off most people about Jigglypuff is that they probably don't realize she's the Mac of the air. (Or rather, Mac is the Puff of the ground.) I feel like Puff is easy once you realize all her strengths comes from being in the air. I got friends trying her out after I showed them that, and they all think she's really fun.

And I think it has to do with moveset design more than balance. The reason Puff isn't fun to play as in Brawl isn't because she's bad, but because she doesn't translate well into Brawl. I feel the same way with Falco as well, and he's great. (Though I guess maybe too used to Melee Falco being very diverse)
Ike is bad as well, but the reason he's so fun comes from the satisfaction of being able to hit like a truck. He was designed to have troubles hitting so that when you manage to get a kill with that sword, it feels that much more accomplishing. I know some don't know like that, because that is specifically why he's bad, but I noticed that's why most love using him. Makes me curious on the direction Sakurai will take with him in this game, since balancing seems more of a priority this time.

Oh, hi SmashGAF!

FUCK YES!!! YOU FINALLY GOT IN! WELCOME TO SMASHGAF!

 

[MrSaturn99]

Nobody likes Ness

sup

 

[Ryce]

SSB4's first 11 newcomers vs. Brawl's first 11 newcomers:

Obviously Brawl introduced more heavy hitters, but I think this game's cast of newcomers is surprisingly solid.

 

[SmithnCo]

On the note of Jigglypuff, one thing I think would be cool is if Rest regenerates her health gradually like the move does in the actual games. I don't think this would be broken because you're vulnerable for so long when doing it, so there's no point in Resting randomly. The recovery in past games has always been so slow that even if you do KO someone with it, they can respawn and still punish you. It already has such a minuscule hitbox and is hard to hit with, so there should be some type of reward at least if it connects.

That would be in interesting. I just hope it isn't a travesty like in Brawl. That's one area where they truly did screw her up.

 

[SliceSabre]

Why exactly do you love Kirby and why would you not use him if he had the exact same moves except they were better?

I like him because I love absorbing people and taking their power, I love turning into a rock and dropping into the middle of a fight, I love flying away from because and I find nothing more satifiying than hitting someone with his hammer. His moves being good or bad mean nothing to me. Hell I loved him even in his Melee days where the only character more of a laughing stock was Pichu.

 

[Anth0ny]

brawl falcon is so fun

brawl samus too

 

[TheChits]

I just hope Jiggly is in this game. Recently started playing her in melee/pm and I really enjoy it.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

SSB4's first 11 newcomers vs. Brawl's first 11 newcomers:



Obviously Brawl introduced more heavy hitters, but I think this game's cast of newcomers is surprisingly solid.

Animal Crossing New Leaf, Fire Emblem: Awakening and Kid Icarus: Uprising are my most played 3DS games, so I'm thrilled with the newcomers this time round. Think Villager is better than any Brawl newcomer (I guess in retrospect less so than Pit considering what followed)

 

[NeonZ]

Ness might be unique in brawl or melee or whatever it is you're referring too, but he's still complete shit and can be good without actually changing anything that makes him unique.

So? I don't get why you're trying to take this discussion in a direction that implies that Sakurai said he doesn't care about balance. He never said that. In fact, there are several quotes from him about balance that I posted above.

 

[Azure J]

brawl falcon is so fun

brawl samus too

Brawl 'dorf. Nuff said.

 

[theprodigy]

On the note of Jigglypuff, one thing I think would be cool is if Rest regenerates her health gradually like the move does in the actual games. I don't think this would be broken because you're vulnerable for so long when doing it, so there's no point in Resting randomly. The recovery in past games has always been so slow that even if you do KO someone with it, they can respawn and still punish you. It already has such a minuscule hitbox and is hard to hit with, so there should be some type of reward at least if it connects.

hopefully

Spoiler

watch it still have Brawl knockback

 

[PadWarrior]

SSB4's first 11 newcomers vs. Brawl's first 11 newcomers:



Obviously Brawl introduced more heavy hitters, but I think this game's cast of newcomers is surprisingly solid.

Ssb4 newcomers win for me. Love mega man little Mac and greninja.

 

[Spinosaurus]

FUCK YES!!! YOU FINALLY GOT IN! WELCOME TO SMASHGAF!

WAT UP <3